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People with mental disorders can buy guns now (1 Viewer)

I don't think it's unreasonable to prevent those with mental disorders from buying guns. I don't see how that infringes on gun rights. Can somebody explain the rationale behind this? 

 
If you ban people with mental disorders from buying guns, and then define wanting to buy a gun as a mental disorder, then boom, you've got a gun ban on anyone you want!  

 
article doesn't extrapolate on the term "mental disorder" - is it limited to what's defined in the DSM-5?

 
There should be an individual screening done.  Not just ruling out one whole category of people.  Some people with mental disorders should be able to buy guns.  

 
They want to let people buy guns who are so mentally challenged the SS admin has someone else handle their checks because they are incompetent to do so. These aren't minor disorders, we are talking seriously challenged persons who are not capable of the decision making owning a lethal weapon requires. This is absolutely lunacy.

Jesus Tim you have to give some kind of context.

 
idea I just had - tell me if this is crazy.

we allow the people who sell guns to make a judgment call on who they sell to.  all sales are documented.  then, when there is a shooting, we make public who sold the gun to the guilty party(s).

could work, no?

 
NCCommish said:
They want to let people buy guns who are so mentally challenged the SS admin has someone else handle their checks because they are incompetent to do so. These aren't minor disorders, we are talking seriously challenged persons who are not capable of the decision making owning a lethal weapon requires. This is absolutely lunacy.

Jesus Tim you have to give some kind of context.
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Or people could read just little.

This is indefensible. Don't start with the slippery slope people, they actually have rules involving slippery slopes. 

 
The General said:
Or people could read just little.

This is indefensible. Don't start with the slippery slope people, they actually have rules involving slippery slopes. 
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True but FFA plus Tim isn't often a reasonable mix. He has to work a little harder. Fair or not that's the deal.

 
I almost stopped reading at "thanks to squistion."  

I am a conservative who agrees that keeping guns away from the mentally challenged is a good idea.   Although a lot of folks posting in this thread would fit the bill.

 
How many gun sales would this actually effect?  If they aren't controlling their own ss check, are they actually going to a shop and buying a gun?  Just wondering if it's a cost/benefit thing.

 
Vanilla Guerrilla said:
How many gun sales would this actually effect?  If they aren't controlling their own ss check, are they actually going to a shop and buying a gun?  Just wondering if it's a cost/benefit thing.
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If they can't deposit their own check, I SERIOUSLY doubt that they can fill out the forms required to buy a gun.

 
BowieMercs said:
Is this a fair statement?  NYPost is (quality-wise equivalent) to Breitbart.

If so, then Tim was just :fishing:  
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Didn't read Tim's link so I don't know what publication it was. I can tell you it has been reported nationally and I did look into it. The outline I gave is accurate to the best of my knowledge.

 
timschochet said:
I don't think it's unreasonable to prevent those with mental disorders from buying guns. I don't see how that infringes on gun rights. Can somebody explain the rationale behind this? 
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Huh? Of course it infringes on gun rights. The EO literally denied a group of people from the right to own guns.

The question, then, is whether its a narrowly tailored and necessary restriction (or something like that).

 
whoknew said:
Huh? Of course it infringes on gun rights. The EO literally denied a group of people from the right to own guns.

The question, then, is whether its a narrowly tailored and necessary restriction (or something like that).
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And...  does it preclude due process?

 
oso diablo said:
article from Reason on this topic. most of what has been reported (breathlessly, for the most part) has been #fakenews

p.s. this bill is supported by the ACLU
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If you are incapable of making the appropriate decisions with your money we are just going to assume that inability doesn't extend to your ability to make decisions in real time under perceived threat of safety of self? Anything to make sure we arm the #### out of everyone I guess as that is going so swimmingly well in this country. And while I like them the ACLU are not always right. Lastly we all know damn well the GOP doesn't give a #### about the mentally ill. They prove it regularly.

 
NCCommish said:
If you are incapable of making the appropriate decisions with your money we are just going to assume that inability doesn't extend to your ability to make decisions in real time under perceived threat of safety of self? Anything to make sure we arm the #### out of everyone I guess as that is going so swimmingly well in this country. And while I like them the ACLU are not always right. Lastly we all know damn well the GOP doesn't give a #### about the mentally ill. They prove it regularly.
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#unhinged

 
NCCommish said:
If you are incapable of making the appropriate decisions with your money we are just going to assume that inability doesn't extend to your ability to make decisions in real time under perceived threat of safety of self? Anything to make sure we arm the #### out of everyone I guess as that is going so swimmingly well in this country. And while I like them the ACLU are not always right. Lastly we all know damn well the GOP doesn't give a #### about the mentally ill. They prove it regularly.
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What does this mean?  Who is the GOP?  The party leaders, the registered voters, the people who voted for a GOP candidate?  And all of them?

This is like saying that we know damn well the Dems don't give a #### about the middle class.  They prove it regularly.

 
NCCommish said:
True but FFA plus Tim isn't often a reasonable mix. He has to work a little harder. Fair or not that's the deal.
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No you''re right. I started the thread but then I had to leave. My fault.

I did, though, think that people would at least read the link before commenting.

 
timschochet said:
I don't think it's unreasonable to prevent those with mental disorders from buying guns. I don't see how that infringes on gun rights. Can somebody explain the rationale behind this? 
Click to expand...
Just another example of the influence the NRA has with the republicans in congress. Any restriction of gun rights at all, even something as reasonable and non-controversial as this, which certainly a vast majority of voters support, is seen as a threat. With so many examples of congress acting so shamelessly, so beholden to big special interest donors, this can't come as any big surprise. 

 
I give money regularly to the ACLU, but I disagree with them on a few things. This is apparently one of them.

Everytime we have a mass shooting in this country the bad guy is either a terrorist or mentally ill. So I don't think that either should be able to own a gun. I look for ways to accomplish that without interfering in gun rights for normal people. This particular way seems perfectly reasonable to me.

 
Walking Boot said:
Just like the proposal that said "Those on the TSA's no fly list shouldn't be able to have guns", I have to come down on the side of protecting Due Process. I don't like the idea of some random government paper-pushing agency having the ability to restrict constitutional rights without proper oversight.

And I do think that there should be stronger individual screening before gun purchases can be made. If someone's been reported to the FBI as a threat, then I would support an additional layer of scrutiny. Blanket measures, though, I'm wary of.
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As NC pointed out, this is a blanket measure for those incapable of signing their own Social Security checks due to mental illness. Why can't we have a blanket measure for them?

 
Walking Boot said:
:reported: for saying the mentally ill are not normal people.
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Really? They're not normal people. That doesn't mean they don't deserve the same rights in most cases, or to be treated with the utmost dignity and respect. But trust me as someone whose grandmother was mentally ill for my entire life until she passed: they're not normal.

 
Jayrod said:
What does this mean?  Who is the GOP?  The party leaders, the registered voters, the people who voted for a GOP candidate?  And all of them?

This is like saying that we know damn well the Dems don't give a #### about the middle class.  They prove it regularly.
Click to expand...
They don't. They do prove it regularly. In fact niether party gives a #### about the middle class see the last 30 years. When I say GOP or Democrats unless I add voters I mean the people in DC who don't really give a #### about the will of the people as proven, again, regularly. And really if you vote for someone who consistently votes to reduce money for mental health do you actually give a #### about those suffering? You vote them.in they do their thing and you keep right on voting them in. Where's the part that shows you care? Same for people voting for that keep voting for Democrats that #### them over time and again because my team right or wrong.

 
Hey here is some more unhinged for you. 200 years of jurisprudence says there is no universal right to private gun ownership enshrined in the Constitution. This idea that there is is one of the biggest cons ever foisted off on this country and we pay for it in blood daily.

 
NCCommish said:
Come on. We are talking people who have been judged to not be fit to handle their SS checks. Guns? Really?
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Research has shown on the relationship between gun violence and mental illness shows that the vast majority of mentally ill individuals are not violent or even suicidal. Our group at Duke recently published a study of approximately 82,000 people diagnosed with serious mental illnesses in Florida between 2002 and 2011. They found that those with serious mental health disorders with records in the public behavioral health system were no more likely than the general adult population in Florida to use a gun to harm others (about 213 vs. 217 gun crimes per 100,000 people per year), and they were only slightly more likely to die in a gun-related suicide (about 13 vs. 9 gun suicides per 100,000 people per year). Thus, people with mental illnesses are no more dangerous to others when they have equal access to guns.

source - Washington Post

 
Psychology has expanded quite a bit.  I imagine most people would be classified as having some kind of mental disorder.  Do I want insane or deeply depressed people to have guns? Of course not.  I also don't want to go down the path of choosing where that line is drawn though.

I guess I would have to know more about who gets wrapped up in their definition.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
NCCommish said:
They want to let people buy guns who are so mentally challenged the SS admin has someone else handle their checks because they are incompetent to do so. These aren't minor disorders, we are talking seriously challenged persons who are not capable of the decision making owning a lethal weapon requires. This is absolutely lunacy.

Jesus Tim you have to give some kind of context.
Click to expand...
Like cable news Tim likes to be first...we will figure out the content later.

 
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