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POLL CLOSED Player #18 Community Dynasty Rankings (1 Viewer)

Who would you rank 18th in a 12 team dynasty league, QB/RB/RB/WR/WR/WR/TE/K/DEF PPR with standard sc

  • Rob Gronkowski

    Votes: 22 31.0%

  • Dez Bryant

    Votes: 15 21.1%

  • Devonta Freeman

    Votes: 15 21.1%

  • Brandin Cooks

    Votes: 5 7.0%

  • Andrew Luck

    Votes: 2 2.8%

  • Keenan Allen

    Votes: 3 4.2%

  • Melvin Gordon

    Votes: 4 5.6%

  • Rookie Pick 1.3

    Votes: 3 4.2%

  • Alshon Jeffrey

    Votes: 2 2.8%

  • Jarvis Landry

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Jordan Reed

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Other (Place name/pick in reply so I can add it, and tell me you clicked this button)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    71
B

Brisco54

Footballguy
Michael Thomas pulls the come from behind upset to grab the fifth pick of the 2d round (17th overall), but with only 14 of 63 votes beating Gronk by 1 and Dez by two.  Landry & Jeffrey received no votes.  That poll/thread can be viewed here: https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/754279-player-17-community-dynasty-rankings/

HOW TO ADD PLAYERS TO THE LIST

First, you can add a name to the current poll by clicking Other and telling me who you think is better than all players on the current list.  (Please tell me that you clicked the other button in the reply... not just the name of your nominee)

Second, in rounds where no one has clicked the other button to add a player, I will add a single player nominated in the comments.  This will be the player with the most support to be added in the comments (total users nominating that player)... in the event of a tie, it will go to the player first nominated in the comments.

Jordan Reed got two nominations and Aaron Rodgers still only has one and Jordy Nelson got one nomination, so Jordan Reed will be added to the poll.

Time to pick #18

Standings

1.1.  Odell Beckham

1.2.  Ezekiel Elliot

1.3.  Mike Evans

1.4.  David Johnson

1.5.  LeVeon Bell

1.6.  Antonio Brown

1.7.  Julio Jones

1.8.  Amari Cooper

1.9.  AJ Green

1.10.  (Tie) Deandre Hopkins

        & Rookie Pick 1.1

1.12.  Todd Gurley

Round 2

2.1 Rookie Pick 1.2

2.2 Allen Robinson

2.3  Sammy Watkins

2.4 TY Hilton

2.5 Michael Thomas
 
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Think I've been voting for Freeman for the last 6 picks...  No love given and I have no clue why.

I think it has a lot to do with name recognition for the type of prospect they were coming into the league.  Gurley, Robinson and Watkins especially were highly sought after in dynasty communities in their rookie years.  In fairness Hilton and Thomas were lesser prospects but Hilton has proven his worth for why he belongs and Thomas is natural for people to view him highly after his great year, but multiple years is a pattern.  Gurley had a good rookie year on arguably the worst offense in the entire league and done nothing since, Robinson had 1 good year in his 2nd year and struggled mightily with QB play this past year, and the other is an often hurt guy who is on a team that seems to want to run with no QB solution and dysfunction all around.  It baffles me why Freeman, a guy who has now proven it 2 years in a row now and on one of the most prolific offenses in the league, is still not being voted for very much.  He's young, he's in a great situation, he's proven.  What's there not to love?  New OC?  Coleman?  Minor knocks in his overall value IMO. 

 
I'm surprised Mike Thomas beat out Brandin Cooks by so much.

Thomas is only eleven months younger than Cooks and Cooks has a more established record of production (three solid to great seasons). I also think Cooks has a better skill set to succeed post-Brees since he can thrive as a deep threat and/or be a short area receiver that can make things happen after the catch. 

 
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I assume "standard scoring" means 4 points for a passing TD.  If scoring were 6 points for passing TDs, would we be looking at QBs around this point?

 
Zyphros said:
Think I've been voting for Freeman for the last 6 picks...  No love given and I have no clue why.

I think it has a lot to do with name recognition for the type of prospect they were coming into the league.  Gurley, Robinson and Watkins especially were highly sought after in dynasty communities in their rookie years.  In fairness Hilton and Thomas were lesser prospects but Hilton has proven his worth for why he belongs and Thomas is natural for people to view him highly after his great year, but multiple years is a pattern.  Gurley had a good rookie year on arguably the worst offense in the entire league and done nothing since, Robinson had 1 good year in his 2nd year and struggled mightily with QB play this past year, and the other is an often hurt guy who is on a team that seems to want to run with no QB solution and dysfunction all around.  It baffles me why Freeman, a guy who has now proven it 2 years in a row now and on one of the most prolific offenses in the league, is still not being voted for very much.  He's young, he's in a great situation, he's proven.  What's there not to love?  New OC?  Coleman?  Minor knocks in his overall value IMO. 
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Picking an RB in the early rounds is a high risk investment and it has a greater than normal chance of coming up snake eyes.   

Of the 14 or so RBs ranked as RB1s last preseason (yeah I get that there are only 12 RB1s, but since opinions differ, I went with the top 14), 4 of them ended up dropping below fantasy relevance (twice the number of weekly starters/48 ):  AP, Charles, Lacy, & Martin.  Only Martin was close (52).  A 5th, CJA, barely made it finishing 45th.

Of the same number of WR last year, only Keenan Allen did not finish as fantasy relevant for WR (top 72, but actually Allen was the only one to finish out of the top 56).  

At TE, three did not finish as fantasy relevant, but two of those were close with Eifert at 25 (cutoff was 24), and Thomas at 33.  Only Green dropped off the fantasy map.. and he was ranked 14th, so a reach to be a TE1 anyway.

At QB, all top 14 ranked QBs finished as fantasy relevant (top 24).

For me, if I am going to pick an RB in the top 20, they need to be an all 3 down + goal line back... a true workhorse.  

 
Start-1 QB keeps the value down, even in dynasty.  At some point Luck's potential longevity kicks in... I think if this was last year, we'd have seen Luck by now.  The emergence of a handful of youngsters has broadened the pool enough that lack of positional scarcity will keep QBs from coming into play till the 3rd, in my estimation,

 
Brisco54 said:
Picking an RB in the early rounds is a high risk investment and it has a greater than normal chance of coming up snake eyes.   

Of the 14 or so RBs ranked as RB1s last preseason (yeah I get that there are only 12 RB1s, but since opinions differ, I went with the top 14), 4 of them ended up dropping below fantasy relevance (twice the number of weekly starters/48 ):  AP, Charles, Lacy, & Martin.  Only Martin was close (52).  A 5th, CJA, barely made it finishing 45th.

Of the same number of WR last year, only Keenan Allen did not finish as fantasy relevant for WR (top 72, but actually Allen was the only one to finish out of the top 56).  

At TE, three did not finish as fantasy relevant, but two of those were close with Eifert at 25 (cutoff was 24), and Thomas at 33.  Only Green dropped off the fantasy map.. and he was ranked 14th, so a reach to be a TE1 anyway.

At QB, all top 14 ranked QBs finished as fantasy relevant (top 24).

For me, if I am going to pick an RB in the top 20, they need to be an all 3 down + goal line back... a true workhorse.  
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I agree with this - I didn't like the way they used Freeman and Coleman almost interchangeably.  I think Coleman's the better back and maybe this keeps him fresh but it definitely limits his upside.  Maybe that will change with Shanahan gone. 

 
Zyphros said:
Think I've been voting for Freeman for the last 6 picks...  No love given and I have no clue why.

I think it has a lot to do with name recognition for the type of prospect they were coming into the league.  Gurley, Robinson and Watkins especially were highly sought after in dynasty communities in their rookie years.  In fairness Hilton and Thomas were lesser prospects but Hilton has proven his worth for why he belongs and Thomas is natural for people to view him highly after his great year, but multiple years is a pattern.  Gurley had a good rookie year on arguably the worst offense in the entire league and done nothing since, Robinson had 1 good year in his 2nd year and struggled mightily with QB play this past year, and the other is an often hurt guy who is on a team that seems to want to run with no QB solution and dysfunction all around.  It baffles me why Freeman, a guy who has now proven it 2 years in a row now and on one of the most prolific offenses in the league, is still not being voted for very much.  He's young, he's in a great situation, he's proven.  What's there not to love?  New OC?  Coleman?  Minor knocks in his overall value IMO. 
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I will second this post - been voting Freeman just as long.    He has the potential to be a Top 5 running back if not sharing time with Coleman (also a very good RB in his own right).

Not sure if it is natural ability, product of the system, Julio taking pressure off the run game, or what - maybe the only concern is after 2017.    Will Freeman leave as a FA, sign back with ATL and continue to share time with Coleman?     If he moves on, does he carry the same potential in dynasty that he has today?

Right now, though, people are going to get a great value on Freeman if drafts play out the way this series of polls is trending....

 
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I love and own Jordy, but in a dynasty startup, are folks really considering a WR that old in the 2nd round? I'm definitely not a guy who would go all upside and youth and avoid proven vets, but Jordy's a guy I own that I'll be riding into the sunset and hope to get 2 more years out of, tops, before he hits a cliff. Jordy seems like a perfect 4th round pick in a dynasty start up draft after you get 3 young solid picks to own for a while and then you go with the Win Now guy if your first 3 picks line you up for a solid run in year one. 

My 2 cents...

 
Dr. Octopus said:
I'm surprised Mike Thomas beat out Brandin Cooks by so much.

Thomas is only eleven months younger than Cooks and Cooks has a more established record of production (three solid to great seasons). I also think Cooks has a better skill set to succeed post-Brees since he can thrive as a deep threat and/or be a short area receiver that can make things happen after the catch. 




 
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Thomas is actually 6 months older than Cooks. Either way, I agree. In start 2RB, I would take Freeman over either, but I wish I could get Cooks for Thomas where I have him. 

 
joey said:
I love and own Jordy, but in a dynasty startup, are folks really considering a WR that old in the 2nd round? I'm definitely not a guy who would go all upside and youth and avoid proven vets, but Jordy's a guy I own that I'll be riding into the sunset and hope to get 2 more years out of, tops, before he hits a cliff. Jordy seems like a perfect 4th round pick in a dynasty start up draft after you get 3 young solid picks to own for a while and then you go with the Win Now guy if your first 3 picks line you up for a solid run in year one. 

My 2 cents...
Click to expand...
Nailed it.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
I'm surprised Mike Thomas beat out Brandin Cooks by so much.

Thomas is only eleven months younger than Cooks and Cooks has a more established record of production (three solid to great seasons). I also think Cooks has a better skill set to succeed post-Brees since he can thrive as a deep threat and/or be a short area receiver that can make things happen after the catch. 
Click to expand...
This is almost a negative to Cooks compared to Thomas for me given the context.  Cooks has had 3 years in a 5,000 yard passing offense and the best he's given us is 1150/9.  People are acting like those are some great numbers but for a 3rd year player with multiple chances playing in a 5,000 yard offense it's really not.  Every WR that plays in a 5,000 yard offense regresses when they are no longer playing in a 5,000 yard offense.  Cooks has little room to regress and with 3 years playing in a 5,000 yard offense already I'm less confident that we haven't already seen what he is.  1150/9 when playing on the best offense in history....less than that when not.

Thomas on the other hand put up the same numbers as a rookie that Cooks put up as a 3rd year player.  I'm much more confident predicting him to substantially increase his numbers over the next year or two with Brees such that his non-5,000 yard regression still leaves him with good fantasy numbers.  All that said I'm not super high on Thomas either, but much higher on him than Cooks who I am very meh on. 

 
Dr. Octopus said:
I'm surprised Mike Thomas beat out Brandin Cooks by so much.

Thomas is only eleven months younger than Cooks and Cooks has a more established record of production (three solid to great seasons). I also think Cooks has a better skill set to succeed post-Brees since he can thrive as a deep threat and/or be a short area receiver that can make things happen after the catch. 
Click to expand...
I think it's because he fits more of the Colston/Graham role in the offense.  They have been the most productive on Payton's offense.

 
Arodin said:
Start-1 QB keeps the value down, even in dynasty.  At some point Luck's potential longevity kicks in... I think if this was last year, we'd have seen Luck by now.  The emergence of a handful of youngsters has broadened the pool enough that lack of positional scarcity will keep QBs from coming into play till the 3rd, in my estimation,
Click to expand...
For me he kicked in a couple picks ago.  Longevity potential: probable top 5 QB for next 10 years.  Love to build around him at this point in the draft.  Too many questions around the others making them less attractive too me, but to each their own . . .

 
joey said:
I love and own Jordy, but in a dynasty startup, are folks really considering a WR that old in the 2nd round? I'm definitely not a guy who would go all upside and youth and avoid proven vets, but Jordy's a guy I own that I'll be riding into the sunset and hope to get 2 more years out of, tops, before he hits a cliff. Jordy seems like a perfect 4th round pick in a dynasty start up draft after you get 3 young solid picks to own for a while and then you go with the Win Now guy if your first 3 picks line you up for a solid run in year one. 

My 2 cents...
Click to expand...
I agree that Jordy would be the perfect pick in the 4th round--because he would absolutely be a steal in the 4th round--but I disagree with your premise.  If you look at the guys that we are looking at--I think their outlooks for the next 2-3 years are just as questionable as Jordy's.  Who knows if Brees will still be in the league (or even on the Saints) in 2-3 years--so it's hard to say that Thomas and Cooks are locks to be head and shoulders above Jordy. Watkins has obvious injury concerns, qb concerns, and concerns with his franchise.  Gronk has major injury concerns and is playing with a qb that also might fall off a cliff in 2 years.    I think that Jordy will continue to be an elite WR as long as he plays with Rodgers--which will be at least the next 2 years--and I think he easily could stay there longer.   In a sense--I agree with you--if he's there in the 4th round--he's a perfect pick.  I however would easily start considering him in the early to mid second.  

 
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jvdesigns2002 said:
I agree that Jordy would be the perfect pick in the 4th round--because he would absolutely be a steal in the 4th round--but I disagree with your premise.  If you look at the guys that we are looking at--I think their outlooks for the next 2-3 years are just as questionable as Jordy's.  Who knows if Brees will still be in the league (or even on the Saints) in 2-3 years--so it's hard to say that Thomas and Cooks are locks to be head and shoulders above Jordy. Watkins has obvious injury concerns, qb concerns, and concerns with his franchise.  Gronk has major injury concerns and is playing with a qb that also might fall off a cliff in 2 years.    I think that Jordy will continue to be an elite WR as long as he plays with Rodgers--which will be at least the next 2 years--and I think he easily could stay there longer.   In a sense--I agree with you--if he's there in the 4th round--he's a perfect pick.  I however would easily start considering him in the early to mid second.  
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So you're giving Jordy and Cooks/Thomas the same time frame with their respective QBs, but you'd take Jordy?  That's some seriously flawed logic.

 
SproutDaddy said:
So you're giving Jordy and Cooks/Thomas the same time frame with their respective QBs, but you'd take Jordy?  That's some seriously flawed logic.
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No--my point is that beyond 2 years--it's nothing more than a shot at a dartboard for many of the guys being discussed in here.   Nobody can definitively say that cooks/thomas will be in a better position than Jordy will after 2 years.  To say that Jordy is worth only a 4th round pick in a dynasty format because of his age alone is too big a discount in my opinion.   I have no problem with anybody taking any of the guys mentioned above Jordy--but I think that discounting him all the way to the 4th round is absurd.  The guy just came back off a major injury--and was 6th in the league in receiving yards--and led all wr's in receiving td's this past season.   He'll have one of the best qb's in the game throwing him the ball for at least the next 2 seasons--and my guess is that the Packers will end up making him retire a Packer.  Again--I have zero problem with anybody taking cooks/thomas ahead of Jordy--but I do think that the notion that some of the guys being mentioned are worth 2 full rounds more than Jordy is absurd.  We are at a point in the draft where drafting Jordy should at least be considered. Whether or not not somebody wants to take him here is all subjective. 

 
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Arodin said:
Start-1 QB keeps the value down, even in dynasty.  At some point Luck's potential longevity kicks in... I think if this was last year, we'd have seen Luck by now.  The emergence of a handful of youngsters has broadened the pool enough that lack of positional scarcity will keep QBs from coming into play till the 3rd, in my estimation,
Click to expand...
Certainly a viable perspective. I suggested adding luck a few picks ago partly to see how many people value the things he brings like longevity.  Apparently not many, yet anyway. But he's absolutely a viable pick right now. 

 
joey said:
I love and own Jordy, but in a dynasty startup, are folks really considering a WR that old in the 2nd round? I'm definitely not a guy who would go all upside and youth and avoid proven vets, but Jordy's a guy I own that I'll be riding into the sunset and hope to get 2 more years out of, tops, before he hits a cliff. Jordy seems like a perfect 4th round pick in a dynasty start up draft after you get 3 young solid picks to own for a while and then you go with the Win Now guy if your first 3 picks line you up for a solid run in year one. 

My 2 cents...
Click to expand...
Exactly. No way he's in my consideration set until 5th round. I'm not paying 2nd or 3rd round startup value for someone likely to fall of the cliff in 2 years. There is always that guy in a startup that drafts old guys early and when they all drop at once hes nowhere to be seen in year 2.

 
joey said:
I love and own Jordy, but in a dynasty startup, are folks really considering a WR that old in the 2nd round? I'm definitely not a guy who would go all upside and youth and avoid proven vets, but Jordy's a guy I own that I'll be riding into the sunset and hope to get 2 more years out of, tops, before he hits a cliff. Jordy seems like a perfect 4th round pick in a dynasty start up draft after you get 3 young solid picks to own for a while and then you go with the Win Now guy if your first 3 picks line you up for a solid run in year one. 

My 2 cents...
Click to expand...
A lot of people don't understand how to play dynasty. Very good post.

 
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jvdesigns2002 said:
No--my point is that beyond 2 years--it's nothing more than a shot at a dartboard for many of the guys being discussed in here.   Nobody can definitively say that cooks/thomas will be in a better position than Jordy will after 2 years.  To say that Jordy is worth only a 4th round pick in a dynasty format because of his age alone is too big a discount in my opinion.   I have no problem with anybody taking any of the guys mentioned above Jordy--but I think that discounting him all the way to the 4th round is absurd.  The guy just came back off a major injury--and was 6th in the league in receiving yards--and led all wr's in receiving td's this past season.   He'll have one of the best qb's in the game throwing him the ball for at least the next 2 seasons--and my guess is that the Packers will end up making him retire a Packer.  Again--I have zero problem with anybody taking cooks/thomas ahead of Jordy--but I do think that the notion that some of the guys being mentioned are worth 2 full rounds more than Jordy is absurd.  We are at a point in the draft where drafting Jordy should at least be considered. Whether or not not somebody wants to take him here is all subjective. 
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When his contract expires in 2018 and he's a 34 year old FA I don't think you'll feel so good about drafting him in 2017. If I can't get anything near 2nd/3rd round startup value for him from anyone even contenders in the thick of the playoff hunt then it's hard for me to assign that value to him the following year in a startup. 

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
No--my point is that beyond 2 years--it's nothing more than a shot at a dartboard for many of the guys being discussed in here.   Nobody can definitively say that cooks/thomas will be in a better position than Jordy will after 2 years. 
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It's a shot at the dart board for these guys if you're a good shot.  Things happen sure and shots can go awry, but I'm confident at least 5 of these guys will still be highly productive in 2019.  Once it gets a bit later, after the core guys are gone and we're debating Lamar Miller, ajayi, diggs, Ingram, etc - those guys are more of a risk than most of the guys listed now.   

 
FreeBaGeL said:
This is almost a negative to Cooks compared to Thomas for me given the context.  Cooks has had 3 years in a 5,000 yard passing offense and the best he's given us is 1150/9.  People are acting like those are some great numbers but for a 3rd year player with multiple chances playing in a 5,000 yard offense it's really not.  Every WR that plays in a 5,000 yard offense regresses when they are no longer playing in a 5,000 yard offense.  Cooks has little room to regress and with 3 years playing in a 5,000 yard offense already I'm less confident that we haven't already seen what he is.  1150/9 when playing on the best offense in history....less than that when not.

Thomas on the other hand put up the same numbers as a rookie that Cooks put up as a 3rd year player.  I'm much more confident predicting him to substantially increase his numbers over the next year or two with Brees such that his non-5,000 yard regression still leaves him with good fantasy numbers.  All that said I'm not super high on Thomas either, but much higher on him than Cooks who I am very meh on. 
Click to expand...
You've laid out your 5,000 yard analysis in other threads, and I mostly agree and think it's a very salient point. I'm not advocating for Cooks to come off the board, in fact I have yet to vote for him, but I'm simply comparing apples to apples. Brees and the Saints offense has spread the ball around among the targets, which has even made marginal talents (imo) like Willie Snead and Lance Moore fantasy relevant. 

As far as Thomas putting up similar numbers in his rookie season compared to Cooks in his third season, I'm not really sure it's fair to say that because Cooks also put up those same numbers in his second season, when he was the same age as Thomas. As a rookie Cooks was misused as a gadget short area player for most of the season and had to compete with Colston and Jimmy Graham for targets.

Personally I don't see Thomas pulling away next season and I'd expect both he and Cooks to continue to have nice seasons, but I feel far more confident in Cooks because he's done it more than once and we've seen rookies regress after impressive rookie seasons.

I also feel (perhaps incorrectly) that Cooks versatility will make him the more useful and productive player in any offense after Brees. I just think it's odd that Thomas is getting so much more love than Cooks - it may turn out that these polls show that was the correct position to take, but personally I'd rather have Cooks.

 
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