What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Need an expert on how passports are issued - country of citizenship versus "Country Issuing Passport" (1 Viewer)

Andy Dufresne

Andy Dufresne

Footballguy
I'm working on a project where we're allowing employees to update their own citizenship and passport information. I haven't traveled much at all so I don't know how passports - specificaly multiple passports - are issued.

In the passport world, there are different country values - one where its the country of which you're a citizen and the other is something commonly called the "Country Issuing Passport".

In short, my question is would these values ever be different? Could you ever be a US citizen but have a passport where the "Country Issuing Passport" is NOT the US? How does multi--citizenship work with passports? 

There will be a technical (database setup type) follow up question after a general understanding.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
How does multi--citizenship work with passports? 
Click to expand...
If Im reading this ? correctly, dual or multi-citizen folks can have a passport from all countries which allow for dula citizenship to begin with.  Israeli/Americans can have both Isreali and American passports and can travel on either, for example..  There are some countries which do not allow for dual citizenship so those countries would not legally allow you to travel with multiple passports with theirs as one of them.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Andy Dufresne said:
In short, my question is would these values ever be different? Could you ever be a US citizen but have a passport where the "Country Issuing Passport" is NOT the US? How does multi--citizenship work with passports?
Click to expand...
I'm not a lawyer, but yes.  You're not required to get a US passport if you're a US citizen, plenty of people don't have them.  If you were a dual citizen of, say, the US and Canada, you could in theory have a Canadian passport but not a US passport.

 
dutch said:
The US discourages duality and mulitple passports but it is not illegal.
Click to expand...
My understanding is that they don't like it when you travel abroad and don't use your US passport.  I have heard from people that it can cause grief at the border when returning to the US.  I'm not sure the legal implications of it though.

 
Steve Tasker said:
I'm not a lawyer, but yes.  You're not required to get a US passport if you're a US citizen, plenty of people don't have them.  If you were a dual citizen of, say, the US and Canada, you could in theory have a Canadian passport but not a US passport.
Click to expand...
But in that case your country of citizenship would be Canada and the Country Issuing Passport would also be Canada, right?

You wouldn't be issued a Canadian passport by the US would you?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Andy Dufresne said:
But in that case your country of citizenship would be Canada and the Country Issuing Passport would also be Canada, right?

You wouldn't be issued a Canadian passport by the US would you?
Click to expand...
For legal purposes, you would have two countries of citizenship - Canada and the US.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Right, but let's say you're an American citizen with an Israeli passport...would the Country Issuing Passport be the US or Israel?

More simply put can CIP be different than your country of citizenship?

But in that case your country of citizenship would be Canada and the Country Issuing Passport would also be Canada, right?

You wouldn't be issued a Canadian passport by the US would you?
Click to expand...
Correct.  When applying for a US passport abroad you do it through the embassy or consulate which is defacto US.

 
Steve Tasker said:
For legal purposes, you would have two countries of citizenship - Canada and the US.
Click to expand...
Yes, but the Country of Issue would be the country of citizenship right?

Are there any circumstances where your country of citizenship would not equal your Country of Issue?

It seems that there must be such a condition otherwise why have two values? But how could one country issue a passport for another? Even in dual citizenship situations, Canada couldn't issue you a US passport, could it?

 
I called the US Gov directly.

It makes no sense that there are two separate values because the Country of Issue has to be a country of which you're a citizen. One country cannot give you a passport for another. If I have dual US/Canada citizenship the US issues me my US passport and Canada issues me my Canadian passport.

At least that's what Lisa from US Passports & International Travel told me.

 
I'm a passport issuing agent for the coast guard, I even have a fancy certificate from the state dept., but I can't find anything on our internal site that addresses your question.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
I'm working on a project where we're allowing employees to update their own citizenship and passport information. I haven't traveled much at all so I don't know how passports - specificaly multiple passports - are issued.

In the passport world, there are different country values - one where its the country of which you're a citizen and the other is something commonly called the "Country Issuing Passport".

In short, my question is would these values ever be different? Could you ever be a US citizen but have a passport where the "Country Issuing Passport" is NOT the US? How does multi--citizenship work with passports? 

There will be a technical (database setup type) follow up question after a general understanding.
Click to expand...
If you were from American Samoa, you could.

 
For those of you in the technical realm, what I'm dealing with is that I have a record called CITIZENSHIP that stores...wait for it...citizenship information (Country/Type, etc.).

Then there's another page called CITIZEN_PSSPRT that contains passport information. The key fields on this record are EMPLID, DEPENDENT_ID, COUNTRY, PASSPORT_NBR

The way that the current online page works is that the parent is citizen information and the child is passport. So you can add citizenship info without adding passport and have to add citizenship before adding passport.

But when you add a passport, the key field COUNTRY defaults from the COUNTRY value in CITIZENSHIP. But there's also a field called COUNTRY_PASSPORT which is the Country Of Issue that I've been talking about.

So, to sum up, CITIZENSHIP.COUNTRY feeds into CITIZEN_PASSPORT.COUNTRY but then the latter table has a value called COUNTRY_PASSPORT, which is not a key field but is required to be filled in to save the page. The page currently allows you to change this value. I was just wondering if it should really be able to do that. I don't think it should.

 
There's also about a 10-year period in the 70s/80s where if you were born in the Northern Mariana Islands the same thing probably applies.

 
To clarify, too - I haven't ever checked.  It may say U.S. on it, it just would be the only situation I can think of where it wouldn't.  They do print a big sentence on the last page that says "The Bearer Is A United States National And Not A United States Citizen"

 
It's mostly a moot point here because I'm really dealing with India/Philippines/Hong Kong/Singapore which aren't going to allow dual citizenship in the application. But of course we need to future proof it as much as possible for regions we haven't rolled out to yet. :wall:

 
Steve Tasker said:
My understanding is that they don't like it when you travel abroad and don't use your US passport.  I have heard from people that it can cause grief at the border when returning to the US.  I'm not sure the legal implications of it though.
Click to expand...
Do they know you've been traveling on another passport?  When we re-enter they never seen to know when our exit was.  Can't imagine they'd know if we were traveling on secondary passports.

FTR my son had dual citizenship.  We use the German one when traveling inside the EZ.  Use the US one when going to Israel entering or exiting the US

 
U.S. Citizens and Lawful Permanent Residents (LPR's) who travel directly between parts of the United States, which includes Guam, Puerto Rico, U.S. Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Swains Island and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (CNMI), without touching at a foreign port or place, are not required to present a valid U.S. Passport or U.S. Green Card.

 
U.S. territories[SIZE=small][[/SIZE]edit]


The 14th Amendment applies to incorporated territories, so people born in incorporated territories of the U.S. (currently, only the Palmyra Atoll) are automatically U.S. citizens at birth.[7]

There are special provisions governing children born in some current and former U.S. territories or possessions, including Puerto Rico, the Panama Canal Zone, the Virgin Islands, Guam, and the Northern Mariana Islands. For example, 8 U.S.C. § 1402 states that "[a]ll persons born in Puerto Rico on or after January 13, 1941, and subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, are citizens of the United States at birth".[8]


Outlying possessions[SIZE=small][[/SIZE]edit]


According to 8 U.S.C. § 1408 persons born (or found, and of unknown parentage, under the age of 5) in an outlying possession of the U.S. (which is defined by 8 U.S.C. § 1101 as American Samoa and Swains Island) are U.S. nationals but not citizens, unless otherwise provided in section 1401. The U.S. State Department publication titled Acquisition of U.S. Nationality in U.S. Territories and Possessions explains the complexities of this topic.[9]

 
Short Corner said:
Do they know you've been traveling on another passport?  When we re-enter they never seen to know when our exit was.  Can't imagine they'd know if we were traveling on secondary passports.

FTR my son had dual citizenship.  We use the German one when traveling inside the EZ.  Use the US one when going to Israel entering or exiting the US
Click to expand...
I have no idea, I only have US citizenship so it doesn't really apply to me.  I know someone who has triple citizenship, US, Canada, and somewhere in the EU.  Around here a lot of people drive to Toronto for transatlantic flights because it's quicker and cheaper...she drove over the border into Canada using her Canadian passport, flew to somewhere in Europe and went through customs with the EU passport.  After traveling for a bit, she returned to the US with her US passport and got questioned sharply at the border because the US didn't have a record of her ever leaving the country.  She claims to have gotten a stern talking-to.  I don't think anything else happened after that though.  This was a few years ago....US and Canada may share these records now, not sure.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
My wife has US, Spanish, and Iranian passports. Always uses her US to leave and enter the US. But will use her Spanish in the EU and the Iranian for Iran.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Charlie Steiner
In honor of MLK day
Replies
5
Views
379
rockaction
rockaction
GregR
Greg's Useless Trivia #50 - 100 questions (75 greatest hits, 25 new)
Replies
19
Views
2K
GregR
GregR
BobbyLayne
The 25 Greatest Films of the 21st Century So Far
2 3 4
Replies
155
Views
6K
El Floppo
El Floppo

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top