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Respectful discussion and debate with Trump supporters requested: Topic # 1 Undocumented immigration (1 Viewer)

timschochet

timschochet

Footballguy
There have been a lot of complaints lately from Trump supporters around here that they are treated disrespectfully. These complaints are not without merit. I have found myself being rude at times to Trump supporters, and for that I apologize here and now. 

The purpose of this thread (and others like it if this one works out) is to have a respectful discussion and debate with Trump supporters on a single issue, one that is important to President Trump's agenda: in this case undocumented immigrants. I can't control who comes into this thread, but for my part I pledge not to engage in any insults, trolling, denunciation of ideas as stupid, etc. I want to have a civilized discussion about what you guys really think about these subjects. Nor will I respond to any insults thrown at me. I hope to inform and to be informed, and if it's impossible to reach agreement then at least we can achieve clarity on our areas of disagreements.

Now I have 4 questions that are specifically for Trump supporters having to do with this issue. While anyone else is obviously free to answer them, I am hoping that Trump supporters will be the ones that do so:

1. There are 11-15 million undocumented immigrants in this country. Obviously nobody reasonably believes that we can deport them all. (If, however, I am wrong about this, and you are one of those who do believe we can and should deport them all, please make your case.) But President Trump and his supporters are opposed to giving them any kind of legal recognition or possible path to citizenship. What then are we to do with these people? 

2. Latest estimates are that the Wall being proposed will cost around 25 billion. President Trump has promised to reduce this cost, won't explain how, but has backed off his campaign assurance that Mexico will pay for it. As a Trump supporter, do you truly favor the building of this wall? If so, what are your main reasons for doing so? And whether you favor it or not, what do you believe the chances are that the wall is built?

3. Many economic experts believe that any interference with undocumented labor in our society will result in much higher prices for consumers. Do you agree with this analysis? If not, why not? If so, how do you mean to remedy this issue? 

4. Do you believe that undocumented immigrants are a net economic detriment or benefit to our society? What information do you base this belief on?

 
1) Yes we can!

2) Yes. To stop the invasion. 100% unless one of you wackjobs whack Trump. 

3) DunNo DunCare and noting because I'll be able to spend more because I'll no longer be making the same pre NAFTA wage.  Merica #### Yeah!

4) They have babies that grow up and vote Democrat. That's not good for America. Unless you are a Democrat and want over half the population subsidized by the government. 

 
1. The assumption that all Trump supporters want to kick everyone out is a faulty premise. Just as false as all Dems want to let everyone in. But to answer the question, there has to be a solution to the current problem. The best answer I think is to allow undocumented people over the next year to apply for temporary citizenship. If they have not committed any felonies then they can get temporary citizenship. That becomes permanent after 2 years again if they have not committed any felonies. If they do not apply in this year then they will be deported if found after that time.  If I am in another country without proper documentation then I would be arrested and removed. Anyone undocumented that does commit felonies is deported. 

2. I think the wall is actually more symbolic than anything. I can't imagine that it will get built. However we do need to strengthen our borders from illegals crossing. I favor any measure that prevents people entering the country illegally.

3/4- I highly doubt that there will be prices rising from losing those workers. Most major employers have to do checks to hire people.  No one has any idea what will happen to the economy. The fact that they are undocumented means there really is no idea how removing them will affect everything. I think this ties into a broader discussion of welfare and work expectations on unemployed people living off the government. I believe that anyone that is undocumented is a drain on the economy. Maybe I am uninformed but I would assume that undocumented also means not paying taxes, etc. 

Just quick thoughts from a trump supporter. 

 
Ratbone said:
1. The assumption that all Trump supporters want to kick everyone out is a faulty premise. Just as false as all Dems want to let everyone in. But to answer the question, there has to be a solution to the current problem. The best answer I think is to allow undocumented people over the next year to apply for temporary citizenship. If they have not committed any felonies then they can get temporary citizenship. That becomes permanent after 2 years again if they have not committed any felonies. If they do not apply in this year then they will be deported if found after that time.  If I am in another country without proper documentation then I would be arrested and removed. Anyone undocumented that does commit felonies is deported. 

2. I think the wall is actually more symbolic than anything. I can't imagine that it will get built. However we do need to strengthen our borders from illegals crossing. I favor any measure that prevents people entering the country illegally.

3/4- I highly doubt that there will be prices rising from losing those workers. Most major employers have to do checks to hire people.  No one has any idea what will happen to the economy. The fact that they are undocumented means there really is no idea how removing them will affect everything. I think this ties into a broader discussion of welfare and work expectations on unemployed people living off the government. I believe that anyone that is undocumented is a drain on the economy. Maybe I am uninformed but I would assume that undocumented also means not paying taxes, etc. 

Just quick thoughts from a trump supporter. 
Click to expand...
This is well thought out, thank you. 

Im pleasantly surprised by your first proposal, but I'm frankly skeptical that many other Trump supporters would agree with you. 

 
Couple more questions (more comments intended to initiate a reply I guess), one for the left and one for pro Trump...

Generally speaking, I don't understand why so many have such a great issue concerning the deportation of illegal immigrants.

I don't understand how anyone thinks the building of a wall will have a net positive impact related to the issue with the above.

 
1- He isn't going to deport everyone, its not feasible. What he is/should do is say "if you are caught, you are out". And I think he is taking steps to do that with the sanctuary city thing..pulling funding.

2- 25 Billion for a wall seems like a lot of $ for a wall. I don't have any feeling one way or the other. I just want the border secured.

3- I don't think deporting illegal immigrants would raise prices. Jobs will be filled with citizens, part timers, college kids, etc.

4- I believe a net detriment. I have read an understood Henry Ford's analysis that they actually pay extra taxes and don't receive the benefit of those taxes, but they also crowd streets, ER's, schools, etc. I know I will be accused of painting with a broad brush, but they join gangs and communities that promote drug trafficking/abuse. I read some crime numbers but am hesitant to post here because there are disagreements with other news outlets. Either way, I think being an illegal immigrant shows your lack of respect for the law and shows you probably wont have issues breaking other laws. 

 
Ratbone said:
1. The assumption that all Trump supporters want to kick everyone out is a faulty premise. Just as false as all Dems want to let everyone in. But to answer the question, there has to be a solution to the current problem. The best answer I think is to allow undocumented people over the next year to apply for temporary citizenship. If they have not committed any felonies then they can get temporary citizenship. That becomes permanent after 2 years again if they have not committed any felonies. If they do not apply in this year then they will be deported if found after that time.  If I am in another country without proper documentation then I would be arrested and removed. Anyone undocumented that does commit felonies is deported. 

2. I think the wall is actually more symbolic than anything. I can't imagine that it will get built. However we do need to strengthen our borders from illegals crossing. I favor any measure that prevents people entering the country illegally.

3/4- I highly doubt that there will be prices rising from losing those workers. Most major employers have to do checks to hire people.  No one has any idea what will happen to the economy. The fact that they are undocumented means there really is no idea how removing them will affect everything. I think this ties into a broader discussion of welfare and work expectations on unemployed people living off the government. I believe that anyone that is undocumented is a drain on the economy. Maybe I am uninformed but I would assume that undocumented also means not paying taxes, etc. 

Just quick thoughts from a trump supporter. 
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think some kind of good behavior amnesty/path to citizenship is extremely important, too.  

I think my main disagreements with 3/4 come from the "major employer" and "not paying taxes" issue - we do definitely get $13 billion or so a year in social security/Medicare taxes plus sales taxes, etc etc from undocumented immigrants and the loss would be an issue.  And I'm all for less "major employers" and more small businesses and farms, many of which employ undocumented workers.  But I think border security (which, honestly, given that we have a net negative Mexican migration these days we've mostly achieved) and amnesty would be a great way to go.

 
MAC_32 said:
Couple more questions (more comments intended to initiate a reply I guess), one for the left and one for pro Trump...

Generally speaking, I don't understand why so many have such a great issue concerning the deportation of illegal immigrants.

I don't understand how anyone thinks the building of a wall will have a net positive impact related to the issue with the above.
Click to expand...
Answering for some of the left - I think there comes a time when, if someone has lived here, built a life here, been a part of the community, contributed to society, and has ties to this country, he or she is a member of our country - obviously not a citizen, but a member of our society. And sending him/her home becomes a loss for society. 

And at that point, what are we sending him or her home to?  If they've been here 15 years, have kids and a home and jobs and a book club and a favorite restaurant and don't get into any trouble, I have a real issue with sending them home to a war torn Central American country or a province in Mexico where people get dumped in mass graves because 15 years ago they committed a misdemeanor coming here when there was no legitimate path to get here legally.

 
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jonessed said:
Seems like we go through this massive exercise at least once every year and nothing changes.
Click to expand...
Still, we do the exercise because open and reasonable dialogue between people of different mindsets is important.  At least that's what I think.

 
Question. How could any business big or small hire someone without documentation and pay them above board?  Aren't they required to get Id certification?  

 
Ratbone said:
Question. How could any business big or small hire someone without documentation and pay them above board?  Aren't they required to get Id certification?
Click to expand...
A few ways -

most notably, they can use a false SS# and the Business would be none the wiser or (and this is fairly common) they can use an Individual Tax ID (one can be issued without being here legally) and work as an independent contractor.  

 
derek245583 said:
1- He isn't going to deport everyone, its not feasible. What he is/should do is say "if you are caught, you are out". And I think he is taking steps to do that with the sanctuary city thing..pulling funding.

2- 25 Billion for a wall seems like a lot of $ for a wall. I don't have any feeling one way or the other. I just want the border secured.

3- I don't think deporting illegal immigrants would raise prices. Jobs will be filled with citizens, part timers, college kids, etc.

4- I believe a net detriment. I have read an understood Henry Ford's analysis that they actually pay extra taxes and don't receive the benefit of those taxes, but they also crowd streets, ER's, schools, etc. I know I will be accused of painting with a broad brush, but they join gangs and communities that promote drug trafficking/abuse. I read some crime numbers but am hesitant to post here because there are disagreements with other news outlets. Either way, I think being an illegal immigrant shows your lack of respect for the law and shows you probably wont have issues breaking other laws. 
Click to expand...
Thanks Derek.

I want to especially focus on the bolded because I know that a lot of conservatives believe as you do about this, and I think it may represent the key disconnect between our two sides.

The main reason I don't refer to these people as illegal is because, at worst, they're breaking a misdemeanor by being here. Most studies that I have read demonstrate that undocumented people are on a whole actually MORE law abiding than documented people, and this makes sense if you stop to think about it, because they are more cautious about having to deal with authorities. That being said, there are plenty of exceptions, and unfortunately these make a lot of headlines.

But it's very problematic that you and so many others seem to group all undocumented people together with the worst, most violent criminals. That was part of President Trump's rhetoric from the beginning of his campaign and it bothered me tremendously; simply put, I think it's a false claim based on irrational fear. Based on your writing, you do not strike me as a stupid or irrational person, so its frustrating to me that you would seemingly share this attitude. 

 
Not a Trump supporter, but here are my thoughts.

-Deport felons, and frequent law breakers (not sure what the measurement should be)

- Everyone else stays, leave them alone. 

For decades, the US has had a policy of allowing laborers (illegals) and to not fuss with those who work jobs nobody else wants to. This should continue, IMO.

 
timschochet said:
Thanks Derek.

I want to especially focus on the bolded because I know that a lot of conservatives believe as you do about this, and I think it may represent the key disconnect between our two sides.

The main reason I don't refer to these people as illegal is because, at worst, they're breaking a misdemeanor by being here. Most studies that I have read demonstrate that undocumented people are on a whole actually MORE law abiding than documented people, and this makes sense if you stop to think about it, because they are more cautious about having to deal with authorities. That being said, there are plenty of exceptions, and unfortunately these make a lot of headlines.

But it's very problematic that you and so many others seem to group all undocumented people together with the worst, most violent criminals. That was part of President Trump's rhetoric from the beginning of his campaign and it bothered me tremendously; simply put, I think it's a false claim based on irrational fear. Based on your writing, you do not strike me as a stupid or irrational person, so its frustrating to me that you would seemingly share this attitude. 
Click to expand...
Another thing I would add to this is that in most cases there is no legal path to immigration for these people.  The law that they are breaking is one that they literally cannot comply with if they want to gain entry to the United States. 

My perspective on immigration would change considerably if Trump or anyone else actually created that figurative "great big door."

 
timschochet said:
This is well thought out, thank you. 

Im pleasantly surprised by your first proposal, but I'm frankly skeptical that many other Trump supporters would agree with you. 
Click to expand...
I think you still underestimate the number of AnyoneButHillary voters who could have been AnyoneButTrump voters if Hillary wasn't the democratic nominee. As for illegal immigrants, I worked with a naturalized citizen from what is now the Czech republic. She came here legally and spent 10 years getting her sister here legally. She has no sympathy for those who just show up and demand to be treated like citizens.

 
Jobber said:
Not a Trump supporter, but here are my thoughts.

-Deport felons, and frequent law breakers (not sure what the measurement should be)

- Everyone else stays, leave them alone. 

For decades, the US has had a policy of allowing laborers (illegals) and to not fuss with those who work jobs nobody else wants to. This should continue, IMO.
Click to expand...
I agree. Get the bad hombres & bandidos out . But ID thieves  should also have their head on a swivel

 
BowieMercs said:
I think you still underestimate the number of AnyoneButHillary voters who could have been AnyoneButTrump voters if Hillary wasn't the democratic nominee. As for illegal immigrants, I worked with a naturalized citizen from what is now the Czech republic. She came here legally and spent 10 years getting her sister here legally. She has no sympathy for those who just show up and demand to be treated like citizens.
Click to expand...
OK, but how do you respond to Tobias' point that many of the people who came here without papers did so because there was no legal path for them? It's one thing to tell people to stay in line, but what if there is no line? 

 
BowieMercs said:
I think you still underestimate the number of AnyoneButHillary voters who could have been AnyoneButTrump voters if Hillary wasn't the democratic nominee. As for illegal immigrants, I worked with a naturalized citizen from what is now the Czech republic. She came here legally and spent 10 years getting her sister here legally. She has no sympathy for those who just show up and demand to be treated like citizens.
Click to expand...
I'm sure. I don't from some countries, but when you have a country like Mexico where there is legitimately no path to come here for most and a 20 year wait list for people who could be allowed to come here... tough to say "well, tough luck" once they come and prove themselves a productive member of society by any means necessary.  

 
timschochet said:
OK, but how do you respond to Tobias' point that many of the people who came here without papers did so because there was no legal path for them? It's one thing to tell people to stay in line, but what if there is no line? 
Click to expand...
Oh, sure.  Tobias' point.

 
timschochet said:
OK, but how do you respond to Tobias' point that many of the people who came here without papers did so because there was no legal path for them? It's one thing to tell people to stay in line, but what if there is no line? 
Click to expand...
Give me all your money Tim. What? No? Well since you won't give it to me, I'll just take it. I guess that's fair.

 
Ratbone said:
1. The assumption that all Trump supporters want to kick everyone out is a faulty premise. Just as false as all Dems want to let everyone in. But to answer the question, there has to be a solution to the current problem. The best answer I think is to allow undocumented people over the next year to apply for temporary citizenship. If they have not committed any felonies then they can get temporary citizenship. That becomes permanent after 2 years again if they have not committed any felonies. If they do not apply in this year then they will be deported if found after that time.  If I am in another country without proper documentation then I would be arrested and removed. Anyone undocumented that does commit felonies is deported. 

2. I think the wall is actually more symbolic than anything. I can't imagine that it will get built. However we do need to strengthen our borders from illegals crossing. I favor any measure that prevents people entering the country illegally.

3/4- I highly doubt that there will be prices rising from losing those workers. Most major employers have to do checks to hire people.  No one has any idea what will happen to the economy. The fact that they are undocumented means there really is no idea how removing them will affect everything. I think this ties into a broader discussion of welfare and work expectations on unemployed people living off the government. I believe that anyone that is undocumented is a drain on the economy. Maybe I am uninformed but I would assume that undocumented also means not paying taxes, etc. 

Just quick thoughts from a trump supporter. 
Click to expand...
I have a friend from Canada who was in our country for 20 years, on a work visa (I believe). He just went through the entire process of becoming a citizen...To cumbersome in a case like that...If you can prove you have been paying taxes and don't have a criminal record after that length of time it should be a simple taking of an oath and done.

 
timschochet said:
Is there some statistical correlation between undocumented aliens and ID thieves that I am unaware of? Or are you simply making the assumption that most ID thieves must be undocumented? 
Click to expand...
There's a huge correlation. Usually we're "just" talking about a stolen SS# used for work in those cases, but that's identity theft. 

 
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Henry Ford said:
There's a huge correlation. Usually we're just talking about a stolen SS# used for work in those cases, but that's identity theft. 
Click to expand...
Are you sure they're stealing existing Social Security #s, or just making up ones that don't exist? I always assumed it was the latter.  If it's the former, where are they getting them from? 

 
If you lie on a job application and it is discovered years later, do you think most companies will let you stay? 

 
So what is the accurate characterization of immigration via Mexico.  There's so much hyperbole laden bull#### out there, it's hard to tell what "current state" is.  So, what I've heard is:

1.  There is literally no provision for Mexicans to migrate here.

2.  There is a process but it's so backed up that it is pointless to try to navigate so they choose not to.

There are nuanced variations of these, but they seem to fit in these two categories.  Which is it?

 
BowieMercs said:
Me taking all your money when I have no legal avenue to do so.

People coming here when they have no legal avenue to do so.

Yeah, I guess that's hard to connect. 
Click to expand...
OK Gotcha. Well I still think you missed my point.

You stated that your friend who went through a legal process to get here has no sympathy for those who don't. I assume you share her feelings on this matter since you brought her up. But if there is no legal process to get here for certain people, doesn't that make a difference, at the very least in terms of your sympathies? It's not like they're cutting in line ahead of your friend. For them there is no line. 

 
BowieMercs said:
extreme in hopes that the point would be obvious... which you got but it escaped tim. mea culpa
Click to expand...
The point is, but I think the extremity of the analogy swallows the point.  

I think we're more dealing with "I need to eat or I'll die, I can't buy food, so I stole a pie off a windowsill.  That stolen pie fed me, and I used staying alive then to build a real life here for 15 years."

It's the Victor Hugo argument.  Do we take away the man's whole life and put him in prison for jumping parole after stealing a loaf of bread 15 years ago and then building a real life and community that he contributes to, or do we find a way to make this work for everyone? 

 
timschochet said:
OK, but how do you respond to Tobias' point that many of the people who came here without papers did so because there was no legal path for them? It's one thing to tell people to stay in line, but what if there is no line? 
Click to expand...
There is no line then there is no line. No one has a right to come into any Nation they aren't a citizen of. 

I don't have any papers because you wouldn't let me get in line.  Boo hoo

Liberal insanity.  

 
The Commish said:
So what is the accurate characterization of immigration via Mexico.  There's so much hyperbole laden bull#### out there, it's hard to tell what "current state" is.  So, what I've heard is:

1.  There is literally no provision for Mexicans to migrate here.

2.  There is a process but it's so backed up that it is pointless to try to navigate so they choose not to.

There are nuanced variations of these, but they seem to fit in these two categories.  Which is it?
Click to expand...
My understanding is that unless you're quite wealthy, #1 is the answer in most cases. 

 
BowieMercs said:
If you lie on a job application and it is discovered years later, do you think most companies will let you stay? 
Click to expand...
I think it depends. I think a lot of people have lied on their resumes and gotten really good at their jobs. And employers don't look into 20 year old resumes because it doesn't matter anymore. 

 
Dr Oadi said:
There is no line then there is no line. No one has a right to come into any Nation they aren't a citizen of. 

I don't have any papers because you wouldn't let me get in line.  Boo hoo

Liberal insanity.  
Click to expand...
Should there be a line for poor Latinos from south of our border? 

 
Dr Oadi said:
There is no line then there is no line. No one has a right to come into any Nation they aren't a citizen of. 

I don't have any papers because you wouldn't let me get in line.  Boo hoo

Liberal insanity.  
Click to expand...
I feel like maybe we're getting outside the bounds of respectful discourse here. 

 
BowieMercs said:
Me taking all your money when I have no legal avenue to do so.

People coming here when they have no legal avenue to do so.

Yeah, I guess that's hard to connect. 
Click to expand...
This analogy fails for two reasons I think.  One, stealing has a single victim, immigration does not (even if you think it has a victim, the cost is spread among many).  Two, most everyone legal means to make money. The people we're talking about here have no legal means to immigrate.

 
timschochet said:
Is there some statistical correlation between undocumented aliens and ID thieves that I am unaware of? Or are you simply making the assumption that most ID thieves must be undocumented? 
Click to expand...

IRS doesn’t tell 1M taxpayers that illegals stole their Social Security numbers

By Stephen Dinan

The IRS has discovered more than 1 million Americans whose Social Security numbers were stolen by illegal immigrants, but officials never bothered to tell the taxpayers themselves, the agency’s inspector general said in a withering new report released Tuesday.

Investigators first alerted the IRS to the problem five years ago, but it’s still not fixed, the inspector general said, and a pilot program meant to test a solution was canceled — and fell woefully short anyway.

As a result, most taxpayers don’t learn that their identities have been stolen and their Social Security files may be screwed up.

“Taxpayers identified as victims of employment-related identity theft are not notified,” the inspector general said.

The report alarmed lawmakers on Capitol Hill, who were shocked that the IRS had gone for so long without fixing the issue.

“It is stunning that the IRS has chosen to aid and abet identity thieves for so long instead of protecting the innocent victims of the theft,” said Sen. Daniel Coats, Indiana Republican.

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Victims’ numbers are stolen by illegal immigrants who need to give employers a valid Social Security number in order to get a job. Employers are prohibited from probing too deeply into numbers, even when they suspect fraud.

But the IRS learns of the scam when the illegal immigrants file their taxes using a special Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) the agency doles out chiefly to illegal immigrants as a way of making sure they’re paying taxes even if they’re not supposed to be in the U.S.

Between 2011 and 2015 the agency flagged nearly 1.1 million returns where someone appeared to have stolen a valid Social Security number, the inspector general said.

The IRS did not have any new comment on the findings, instead referring reporters to an official response filed with the inspector general, in which the agency insisted it’s making progress.

Karen Schiller, commissioner for the IRS‘ small business and self-employed division, said the 2014 pilot program was helpful, even if it didn’t completely solve the notification problem, and said the agency will try to alert all taxpayers beginning next year.

“As we continue to battle and make progress against all strains of identity theft in the tax ecosystem, we recognized that we were missing an important partner in this effort — the taxpaying public,” said Ms. Schiller, who had the task of answering the inspector general.

She also vowed to figure out a system to let the Social Security Administration (SSA) know if someone’s number has been stolen.

Under the 2014 pilot program, the IRS did notify some 25,000 taxpayers whose SSNs were pilfered. The notice they received told them to contact credit-monitoring agencies to try to head off any more damage to their personal finances.

But the IRS said it’s prevented by federal law from telling taxpayers who stole their identity.

The IRS says its role is not to enforce immigration laws but rather to collect taxes. The agency issues ITINs to ensure that unauthorized workers can still file tax returns, even if they aren’t supposed to be working in the U.S.

Taxpayers who use an ITIN are eligible for some tax credits, particularly for their children who are U.S. citizens.

Congressional Republicans have long complained to the IRS that it is protecting illegal immigrants from discovery by allowing the use of ITINs but failing to share the information with other agencies.

Mr. Coats, who has written legislation requiring victims to be notified, even confronted IRS officials about their lax behavior at a hearing in April.

“All of us can agree that victims need to know that they’re victims, and need to know that an agency of the federal government, whether it’s IRS or whether it’s SSA, or both, ought to have some ability to talk to each other,” Mr. Coats said.

IRS Commissioner John G. Koskinen told Mr. Coats at the hearing that in many of the cases, friends or relatives lent their Social Security numbers to the unauthorized workers, and already know their information is being fraudulently used.

He also said the agency struggled to come up with a solution that wouldn’t chase illegal immigrants away from filing their taxes altogether.

“Obviously, priority for taxpayers and the IRSis collecting those taxes,” he said.

Mr. Koskinen testified at the time that it may take new legislation from Congress to let his agency inform taxpayers they’d been the subject of identity theft.

But the hiccup in communicating with the Social Security Administration seems like it should be easier to solve. The inspector general, however, said the IRS didn’t have a system set up to make sure SSA always knew of the fraud.

In some cases IRS employees said they sent a notice, but the Social Security Administration had no record of it. In other cases, it appears the IRS didn’t even bother to make a notification.

“The lack of a formal process to ensure that the SSA is notified of income not associated with an innocent taxpayer is problematic because this notification is essential to ensure that victims’ Social Security benefits are not affected,” the inspector general said.
Click to expand...
 
timschochet said:
My understanding is that unless you're quite wealthy, #1 is the answer in most cases. 
Click to expand...
There are classes of immigrants who can come here from Mexico.  Often it's dependent on having a living immediate family relative here in the States.  Outside of those classes, there is no path.

 
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