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Heatman

*** Minnesota Vikings: #2019

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So if Vikings have to cut someone, I can only think of three guys who would be on the list...… LT Reiff (eek then who plays that position?), RDE Griffen? and TE Rudolph?  I hope a few vets take on some cap relief deal so we can fit everyone in.

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1 minute ago, CanadianNFLJunkie said:

So if Vikings have to cut someone, I can only think of three guys who would be on the list...… LT Reiff (eek then who plays that position?), RDE Griffen? and TE Rudolph?  I hope a few vets take on some cap relief deal so we can fit everyone in.

Listening to Rick he seemed completely unconcerned about the cap situation. He said they have had this planned since January.

If Reiff were gone then they might move ONeil to the left side and Hill would be the right tackle. They do have some other players who can compete there, Avantae Collins would likely be the next guy up. He can play tackle or guard. Udoh is a long term project. Samia could play right tackle but they need him at guard. Reiffs contract doesn't really increase from where it is though and they are past the point where dead money is an issue. It really just depends on if he plays well or not.

This is partly why I was targeting offensive tackles in the draft, thinking ahead, but they didn't get one. I do really like the players they did get in Bradbury, Smith and Samia who might all be starters soon.

I was reading the other day that if the Vikings were to trade Treadwell before a certain date they could save 1$1.8 million. Maybe that is the plan? I suppose some team might give up a 7th round pick for him maybe?

That would be enough money to sign Bradbury.

They don't really have to do anything right now except for make enough room for Bradburys contract. They might be able to do that with some other smaller moves as well.

 

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Good points.  I read somewhere there's a Tackle who played in Atlanta? last year who is a free agent.  We were interested in him before the draft and he's still free and apparently most likely a cheaper equal value move for us to potentially make, but who knows

Apparently we have just Bradbury and our long-snapping 7th rounder to sign, which is always nice to see everyone (soon I HOPE) under contract.  

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2 hours ago, CanadianNFLJunkie said:

Good points.  I read somewhere there's a Tackle who played in Atlanta? last year who is a free agent.  We were interested in him before the draft and he's still free and apparently most likely a cheaper equal value move for us to potentially make, but who knows

Apparently we have just Bradbury and our long-snapping 7th rounder to sign, which is always nice to see everyone (soon I HOPE) under contract.  

Yeah IIRC they were late to sign their rookies last year for some reason which is unusual.

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On 5/5/2019 at 7:17 AM, Biabreakable said:

I was reading the other day that if the Vikings were to trade Treadwell before a certain date they could save 1$1.8 million. Maybe that is the plan? I suppose some team might give up a 7th round pick for him maybe?

That would be enough money to sign Bradbury.

They don't really have to do anything right now except for make enough room for Bradburys contract. They might be able to do that with some other smaller moves as well.

 

If the Vikings were to cut Treadwell, would they save the same amount under the cap? If so, that seems like a real possibility if they can't trade him. At this point I'd be extremely surprised if anyone was willing to give anything up for him.

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1 hour ago, -arcK- said:

If the Vikings were to cut Treadwell, would they save the same amount under the cap? If so, that seems like a real possibility if they can't trade him. At this point I'd be extremely surprised if anyone was willing to give anything up for him.

That I am not sure about.

I would assume they can however if they are able to do so through a trade. 

I would be a bit surprised as well. Although Treadwell is still a very young player. Maybe another team has interest in him.

This reminds me of something that Rick also said when he was asked if age is a factor in their decision making process for rookies.

I am not sure if Rick understood the question, but his reaction to if age was a factor in their decisions he said not at all. He then goes on to say that a player being so young doesn't really matter to him.

I think the reporter asking the question was more trying to find out if the Vikings value younger players over older ones. Rick took the question to be if they would pass on a player because they are too young, and that they don't re4ally consider that.

Just something I found interesting with all the folks around here being interested in things like break out age. The Vikings have data for their analytics stretching back to 2005, but based on his response, break out age is not something they place value on.

Maybe they should? Or maybe they have found that it doesn't matter.

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15 hours ago, Biabreakable said:

This reminds me of something that Rick also said when he was asked if age is a factor in their decision making process for rookies.

I am not sure if Rick understood the question, but his reaction to if age was a factor in their decisions he said not at all. He then goes on to say that a player being so young doesn't really matter to him.

I think the reporter asking the question was more trying to find out if the Vikings value younger players over older ones. Rick took the question to be if they would pass on a player because they are too young, and that they don't re4ally consider that.

Just something I found interesting with all the folks around here being interested in things like break out age. The Vikings have data for their analytics stretching back to 2005, but based on his response, break out age is not something they place value on.

Maybe they should? Or maybe they have found that it doesn't matter.

It would be fascinating to see their analytics process. Seems to me they tend to prioritize guys with impressive athletic profiles first, with the hopes that they can coach them up. But every once in a while they'll grab a guy who is more an average Joe that is just a solid football player. I haven't been able to determine an age bias, but then again I've had a tough time every year figuring out who they'll value in the draft. I can come up with a list of guys who might fit their schemes, but then determining how they tier them is practically impossible.

The only thing I know for sure... Spielman is aware of the lottery nature of the draft and realizes that more picks means a better chance of hitting. I see teams like the Saints trading away picks and coming out with only 5 players and I cringe. A class that small has a very good chance of being a dud when you look back a few years later.

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Treadwell has become a head case who is unreliable with the hands even when he runs a route correctly and gets separation. I feel like we've seen this movie before (Cordarrelle) and you just need to cut bait sometimes. I've never been a fan.

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Patterson from what I remember was a JC transfer who went to Tennessee wasn't it, and he was there for 1 year.  Treadwell had 3 years in college and had impressive numbers.  Seems to me Patterson was a specimen of an athlete but was very raw.  Treadwell to me lacks confidence and unless Diggs or Thielen are injured and miss a lot of time, he'll never shine here, therefore a change of scenery for him is going to happen to him in 2020

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How valuable is WR3 in a Kubiak offense?

Quote

Mile High Report looked at the performances by WR3 throughout Kubiak’s history as an offensive coordinator or head coach and found only six instances of a third receiver catching more than 30 passes between 1996 and 2015. The last five WR3s under Kubiak had 22, 24, 22, 10 and 31 receptions.

the tight end role averages 23 percent of total targets over Kubiak’s career. Last year Kyle Rudolph, David Morgan and Tyler Conklin made up just 15.7 percent.

Also notable: Running backs and fullbacks have made up 23 percent of the target share. Last year 16.3 percent of targets went toward the Vikings backfield.

 

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16 minutes ago, Heatman said:

The Vikings seem to be using their situation of being tight against the cap to gain leverage or cover in making low ball offers to their players.

Not like this is something new either, they got a great deal from Adam Thielen initially that they just recently renegotiated.

The biggest positive is that players do genuinely want to be part of the Vikings. They all seem to like Zimmer and the facility is still brand new. They were able to attract  top free agents Cousins and Richardson last year as another example of how much players want to play for the Vikings.

Weatherly could be the next DE project to bear fruit. The Vikings and Andre Patterson have been doing an excellent job of finding and developing these players. Hell Griffen and Robison were 4th round picks. They have been doing a great job there. If the Vikings can get a deal done before free agency next year I think they end up saving money as Weatherly will likely play more this year.

As far as the money the Vikings may not have Griffen on the roster in 2020 so that would free up money for Weatherly. Griffen isn't a lock to make the team this year although obviously it would be good to have him.

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At receiver position, Vikings need someone to ‘flash’ in camp

I am not sure why Collier would evoke memories of Patterson with this title.

Anyhow an interesting point of view about building a frankenstein monster of multple WR for the WR 3 role at this point of time.

Quote

“Many of them were brought in undrafted because they have a specific trait that they bring to the table,” Cousins said. “We want to understand what that is and accentuate it. If a guy can roll, if he’s a 4.3 guy — and maybe there are some limitations to playing the other parts of the receiver position — but he’s a 4.3 guy, let’s get him in our deep routes and give him a chance to get behind safeties and launch.”

This could work but of course it would be better to have one WR develop into a complete WR and make things more difficult for the opposing defense. I would say Chad Bebee has the best chance of being a complete all around WR. These other WR seem to be more specialized as Cousins mentions.

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Interesting with the trade for Vedvik...they were having other players practice as holders in training camp so I wonder if he will be the punter or if they will make it look that way and try and flip Bailey to the Bears...

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1 hour ago, FunkyPlutos said:

Interesting with the trade for Vedvik...they were having other players practice as holders in training camp so I wonder if he will be the punter or if they will make it look that way and try and flip Bailey to the Bears...

to the jets....why on earth would they help the bears.

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2 hours ago, FunkyPlutos said:

Interesting with the trade for Vedvik...they were having other players practice as holders in training camp so I wonder if he will be the punter or if they will make it look that way and try and flip Bailey to the Bears...

My question is will he end up doing both?  In my league we play both a punter and a kicker so if I can lock up a guy that does both that is like having an extra player in your lineup.  Any idea on whether he can or will be taking on both duties?

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7 hours ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

to the jets....why on earth would they help the bears.

Needed another cup of coffee before typing...that is a better idea! 

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Vikings trade Danny Isidora to Miami Dolphins

I think this is a good sign that the Vikings actually have enough quality depth to be able to trade a guard that they were likely going to cut anyways.

I am wondering if Verdik did enough to win the punting job or not. I really hope they do not keep 3 kickers. Too many good players for them to be wasting a spot on that.

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I hear you guys are giving away 5th round picks... 

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On 8/12/2019 at 9:05 AM, FunkyPlutos said:

Interesting with the trade for Vedvik...they were having other players practice as holders in training camp so I wonder if he will be the punter or if they will make it look that way and try and flip Bailey to the Bears...

Very interesting indeed

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Sometimes a change of scenery can be good for a player. Either because its a wake up call and the player applies themselves more, or because of the new relationship and expectations perhaps being more aligned than they were with previous organization.

Not holding my breath or anything, just saying it has happened for some other players before.

Also Cousins has worked with Doctson in 2016 and 2017. 2017 Doctson did score 6 TD and his yards per reception were good. He only caught 45% of his targets though, thats not good.

Anyhow the Vikings and Cousins know what they are getting in Doctson. I am not sure it is an improvement from Treadwell or not.

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If I had a nickle for every time I've picked up Josh Doctson over the last 3 years, I'd have more nickles than the Vikings have Super Bowl victories.  Go Pack!

 

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Worth a flier for them IMO. 

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Doctson Signing Made Official; Brett Jones Released

Last thing I read about pff grades for the offensive linemen in preseason and also last season when Jones played in regular season games he was graded pretty high.

Quote

Brett Jones is grading exceptionally well

Depth has long been an issue up front for the Vikings but they should feel good about having Brett Jones as their backup C/G. Not only has he put together decent PFF grades in the past as a starter, he’s been dominating — yes, dominating — this preseason. He is the only Viking with a grade above 90 and scored exceptionally well in run and pass blocking. That doesn’t mean he should steal anyone’s job. It’s just to say that he’s solid, proven depth if someone goes down

So the Vikings must think the 9 offensive linemen they kept are better than Brett Jones.

The offensive line especially the guards and Bradbury really struggled in the 3rd preseason game to block the Cardinals vanilla defense. They are not out of the woods yet. Not by a long shot.

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Any word on how long Alexander is going to be out?

I read that Brett Jones is back in town and could sign back today.

I know it is only one week, but I like the looks of this team...

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22 minutes ago, FunkyPlutos said:

Any word on how long Alexander is going to be out?

I read that Brett Jones is back in town and could sign back today.

I know it is only one week, but I like the looks of this team...

We won't know on Alexander until they do his MRI.  Usually a few weeks for a dislocated elbow, but if it's more that just a dislocated elbow it could be a lot longer.

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As for how the team played....

Defense gets an A.  Hard to think they could've played much better, especially considering how short we became in the secondary after Alexander got hurt.

Special teams gets an A.  No major mistakes.  Punted and covered well.

Offense gets a B.  I know... no turnovers, good looking running game.  However, Atlanta was not a good run defense last year and we never really had to test our pass blocking ability in a critical moment.  

 

Overall it was great.  28-0 before the prevent D kicks in.  Gotta love that for a first game of the year.  I expect next week will be a little tougher test, but like what I see and think we'll be up to the challenge.

 

FYI, Griffin looks like his old(pre mental breakdown) self.

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Vikes looked great but it is tough to really know much because everything went their way.  You only really get to know about a team when they get punched in the face and need to recover and come back to win.   Next game will be a big test for the division. 

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32 minutes ago, Gally said:

Vikes looked great but it is tough to really know much because everything went their way.  You only really get to know about a team when they get punched in the face and need to recover and come back to win.   Next game will be a big test for the division. 

I agree...was kind of nice not to have to show much of the passing game so they can have more "surprises" this week.

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4 minutes ago, FunkyPlutos said:

I agree...was kind of nice not to have to show much of the passing game so they can have more "surprises" this week.

I hope these are good surprises.

According to this Cousins was pressured on 5 of 11 drop backs.

Way too high. No wonder they didn't want (or need) to throw.

 

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16 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

I hope these are good surprises.

According to this Cousins was pressured on 5 of 11 drop backs.

Way too high. No wonder they didn't want (or need) to throw.

 

Agreed this is a major wart on the win. The good thing IMHO is the Vikes only need to aspire for mediocrity at OL to be a winning team, and I do think they are closer to that than they have been in the past 5 seasons. Hopefully O'Neill regaining health will give them better ability to gel, since they really didn't have the opportunity during preseason to function as a unit.

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Why are we paying Cousin again?  I am sure Kyle Sloter could hand the ball off and over throw receivers as well as he did this week. 

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11 minutes ago, Donnybrook said:

Why are we paying Cousin again?  I am sure Kyle Sloter could hand the ball off and over throw receivers as well as he did this week. 

The INT in the endzone was inexcusable. No reason to throw that on 1st down with the run game working so well. Throw it away and hand it off next play. The offensive line is no longer an excuse. With elite WRs and elite running game he has to be better. This loss is on him.

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Cousins should be a slightly above average veteran who doesn’t make mistakes and hits the throws he needs to. 

At this point I’d rather have Keenum back. He missed Theilen and Diggs late, threw 2 bad picks and fumbled twice. 

Inexcusable. Not sure Mannion is the answer either but I’m not hopeful for this team. Another wasted year of a great D and now a great run game. 

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