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2022 Minnesota Vikings (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter Heatman
- Start date
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Yeah I am really not impressed with the execution of the special teams, there have been issues with blocking and things that are scheme related more than player execution related that are going wrong. That is on the coach. The good things the Vikings special teams have done with Priefer have mostly been because of very good players like Patterson, and now Hughes making them happen.Johnny Rock said:
The Vikings invest too much draft capital with special teams in mind for them to perform as poorly as they do.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
According to Sportrac the Vikings currently have 4.4 million left. Not too much.Donnybrook said:
There is about 9 million tied up in dead contracts and injured reserve contracts that might be cleared next year, and the cap will go up, but yeah they don't have much room to add anyone expensive right now.
skol asylum
Footballguy
WR Stacy Coley cut to make room for Bailey.
skol asylum
Footballguy
Vikes also bring back DT Tom Johnson who Seattle recently cut. Nice depth.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Treadwell in the doghouse, Coley cut and Robinson just a JAG. Excellent opportunity for Zylstra to get some playing time.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
According to Mike Zimmer Dalvin Cook is out and Everson Griffen is also out.
Both Mike Boone and Roc Thomas will be active for this game (they have been inactive the first two games) according to Zimmer, who do you think plays more out of these two?
I have some opinions about this, just curious what the rest of you think about the rookie RB and who may play more with Cook out?
Stephen Weatherly will start at DE opposite Hunter. Tashawn Bower will also rotate with them. Zimmer says Tom Johnson remembers most of everything about the defense, so he may play a small number of snaps in rotation with Joseph, Richardson and Jaleel Johnson.
Pat Elflien will be active but Zimmer said he won't start. They have some packages for him. I am not sure what that means. He might play but I don't think he plays much. Rashod Hill practiced in full on Friday and will play on Sunday. He had an ankle injury in last weeks game and Brian O'Neil played 44% of the offensive snaps replacing him. I did not notice O'Neil so that must mean he did a pretty good job. The offense was better in the 2nd half of the game.
Everyone is expecting the Vikings to win against the Bills and some think the game will be over by the 2nd quarter with the Vikings establishing a big lead. While that would be great if they are right the Vikings are not treating this game that way. Adam Theilen made some good comments about this that every game is difficult and the Bills have good players.
Everything I have suggests they are sticking with Treadwell as the 3rd WR. DeFlippo points out that Treadwell did catch a TD and that he catches the ball well in practice. You just have to have a short memory about bad plays. Treadwell says his drops are concentration drops where he is thinking about turning with the ball before he has caught it. Treadwell does have a broken finger which happened on his 3rd drop of last game, early in overtime. He will wear something to protect it for this game. While Cousins does seem to like Treadwell, with his finger hurt and the drops last week, I am not expecting him to go to Treadwell as much as he has the first two games. He had 6 targets last week and 4 targets week one. His 10 targets are tied with Kyle Rudolph for 4th most on the team. Cook has 12 so those targets are going to go somewhere besides Murray.
Both Mike Boone and Roc Thomas will be active for this game (they have been inactive the first two games) according to Zimmer, who do you think plays more out of these two?
I have some opinions about this, just curious what the rest of you think about the rookie RB and who may play more with Cook out?
Stephen Weatherly will start at DE opposite Hunter. Tashawn Bower will also rotate with them. Zimmer says Tom Johnson remembers most of everything about the defense, so he may play a small number of snaps in rotation with Joseph, Richardson and Jaleel Johnson.
Pat Elflien will be active but Zimmer said he won't start. They have some packages for him. I am not sure what that means. He might play but I don't think he plays much. Rashod Hill practiced in full on Friday and will play on Sunday. He had an ankle injury in last weeks game and Brian O'Neil played 44% of the offensive snaps replacing him. I did not notice O'Neil so that must mean he did a pretty good job. The offense was better in the 2nd half of the game.
Everyone is expecting the Vikings to win against the Bills and some think the game will be over by the 2nd quarter with the Vikings establishing a big lead. While that would be great if they are right the Vikings are not treating this game that way. Adam Theilen made some good comments about this that every game is difficult and the Bills have good players.
Everything I have suggests they are sticking with Treadwell as the 3rd WR. DeFlippo points out that Treadwell did catch a TD and that he catches the ball well in practice. You just have to have a short memory about bad plays. Treadwell says his drops are concentration drops where he is thinking about turning with the ball before he has caught it. Treadwell does have a broken finger which happened on his 3rd drop of last game, early in overtime. He will wear something to protect it for this game. While Cousins does seem to like Treadwell, with his finger hurt and the drops last week, I am not expecting him to go to Treadwell as much as he has the first two games. He had 6 targets last week and 4 targets week one. His 10 targets are tied with Kyle Rudolph for 4th most on the team. Cook has 12 so those targets are going to go somewhere besides Murray.
doeseatplace
Footballguy
I'm interested in sharks' thoughts on this as well. I signed Boone after week 1 as a longer term hedge for a Cook injury. Seemed to me at the time that if Cook were to miss extended time, Boone more matched his game than Thomas (or Murray, for that matter).
But for tomorrow, the groin injury worries me. If conventional wisdom holds, Vikes will control this game by half, so why risk further aggravation to Boone?
Biabreakable
Footballguy
You make a good point about the Vikings possibly not want to risk Boone making his injury worse.
Really just depends on how serious the injury is I think. If it is serious, he won't play and possibly be inactive again. If it isn't serious then I would expect Boone to play more snaps than Thomas in relief of Latavus Murray, who I expect to get the majority of the opportunities this week.
It is possible that Thomas brings a different dimension than Murray and Boone, and they use him specifically on those kinds of plays. If Murray plays 70% or more of the snaps, then Thomas might play more snaps than Boone, just because he executes different plays that the Vikings want to run, with Murray and Boone. I think Thomas play style is a bit different than the other two, and so more change of pace.
Another possibility is that CJ Ham plays some snaps at RB.
doeseatplace
Footballguy
Thanks, this is helpful. I also hadn't considered the Ham factor...not unrealistic to assume he could see 1/2 dozen touches
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Neither Boone or Thomas play on special teams. So if they are both active, I think they may have a few plays.
Cook was averaging 18 opportunities per game and Murray 7.5 over the first two weeks.
If Murray gets 18 there is still about that much left for other RB. If things go well and the Vikings establish an early lead, then possibly more.
Ham is capable as well.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
sports_fan
Footballguy
We suck
snogger
Footballguy
For those that followed the "game" thread... After further thought.. This was a bigger 
game then the loss to the Giants in the NFC title game.
So much for thinking Zimmer was going to FINNALY be the Viking coach to not let a team fall into a trap.
game then the loss to the Giants in the NFC title game.So much for thinking Zimmer was going to FINNALY be the Viking coach to not let a team fall into a trap.
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fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Goes to show how close good and bad teams are in the NFL. Vikings clearly looked past this game.
dbc925
Footballguy
Herb
Footballguy
Everyone knows the O-line situation is worrisome. Ditto that Cousins, while a good QB, is not among the league's elite. Likewise that the kicking game has been a big "?" seemingly forever. But what the ever-loving #### is going on with this defense? Man for man, this is arguably the best in the NFL, at worst top 5. Since halftime of the Saints playoff game, the D has been terrible. Like 4-alarm dumpster fire terrible. Like they remind me of the 2013 defense that was one of the most pathetic Viking squads to ever suit up. They can't stop anything. They don't tackle. They commit stupid, drive-extending penalties. They let receivers run free wide open.
What the hell is going on? Has the rest of the league just figured out Zimmer's scheme? Are the players just not executing? Has Zimmer just lost "it?" I don't pretend to know the answers. I am heartened by the fact that this team under Zimmer seems to do this annually, losing an ugly early season game against an inferior opponent before righting the ship. Hoping that's the case here. But the way this team is playing, losing to the Rams by less than 14 would be a "victory." I have little hope of an actual victory.
What the hell is going on? Has the rest of the league just figured out Zimmer's scheme? Are the players just not executing? Has Zimmer just lost "it?" I don't pretend to know the answers. I am heartened by the fact that this team under Zimmer seems to do this annually, losing an ugly early season game against an inferior opponent before righting the ship. Hoping that's the case here. But the way this team is playing, losing to the Rams by less than 14 would be a "victory." I have little hope of an actual victory.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
That seemed like a bad game.
sports_fan
Footballguy
Zimmer had success for years before he joined the Vikes. I have a hard time believing the majority of the league has suddenly figured him out. I think it's far more likely they're just not executing. I trust they will turn it around defensively. I have far less faith in the offense. The oline is too bad to overcome
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
More like a trap game. They got LA Rams and Philly coming up so they were probably looking ahead.
snogger
Footballguy
We can only hope that was the case..
Even then, I was hoping Zimmer would get the Vikings past crap outings like this that us Viking fans have become all too use to.
Hov34
Eephus's Great Great Great Love Child
The rest of the league is doing what we should be doing on offense. Short drops, getting the ball out quick - RB/WR screens. It takes away from our strength (rushing the QB - which with the way they treat the QB it is pointless to rush the QB, because you might draw a 15 yard penalty). And our D hasn't adjusted - still playing 10 to 15 yards off the WR.
Meanwhile on Offense we are still trying to drop back and complete mid range passes with this OL. Stupid. We should be doing the same thing offenses are doing to us.
Oh, and stop trying to return kicks. Jesus. Every kick returned yesterday was either inside the 20 or a penalty or both. Dip####s keep bringing it out.
The loss hurt, but it was necessary. This team plays its best ball with a chip on the shoulder, not when they are buying into their own hype. Zimmer knows this and I think he had a feeling a game like this was coming. The difference between good and bad teams is razor-thin, and it take great focus and effort to get a win. These guys needed to get punched in the mouth to wake up and I just hope it gets the defense going again.
And just like you Herb, in the long term I don't what the answer is for the defense. They can't seem to do anything right. I know it's bad when I don't even celebrate a sack on 1st or 2nd down because I feel like the other team will still somehow convert. Maybe give Edwards a chance to call plays? I wish there was a clear answer... But one thing I do know for sure: I want nothing to do with an extension for Barr. I'm done with his goof-ups and overall bad play. Let him walk and replace him.
And just like you Herb, in the long term I don't what the answer is for the defense. They can't seem to do anything right. I know it's bad when I don't even celebrate a sack on 1st or 2nd down because I feel like the other team will still somehow convert. Maybe give Edwards a chance to call plays? I wish there was a clear answer... But one thing I do know for sure: I want nothing to do with an extension for Barr. I'm done with his goof-ups and overall bad play. Let him walk and replace him.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Pretty tough game to attend. I get the any given Sunday thing, and remain hopeful for the rest of the season. I would not be surprised at all if the Vikes are much more competitive vs Rams and Eagles. Still, it is tempering to know the Vikes have a clunker of this magnitude within them... that the playoff loss last season was not some isolated quirk, but repeatable within a handful of games. Great teams can be upset, but can't imagine a great team, at home, trailing 27-0 at the half. I wouldn't have thought it possible.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
It was an epically bad performance in all phases. We can point fingers and Barr as well as Hughes made multiple mistakes on defense but the team was collective in their failure yesterday.
The offense was struggling to find anyone open most of the day. Cousins was off target on what could have been some big plays. He turned the ball over giving the Bill's short fields which makes it hard for thr defense to keep points off the board. Diggs and Theilen had drops. The offense could not block Hughes who they couldn't block last time the Vikings played the Bill's either. They were not well prepared for this game when they had every reason to be. At home in a friendly environment they just did not play hard enough or well enough to win.
Zimmer took responsibility for the team not being prepared. However can he correct it?
Only time will tell. They won't beat anyone playing the way they did yesterday though.
The Bill's deserve credit. They played inspired and executed well unlike the Vikings.
The only hope I have is that this may wake the team up now. I know they are capable of playing much better than they did yestetday.
The offense was struggling to find anyone open most of the day. Cousins was off target on what could have been some big plays. He turned the ball over giving the Bill's short fields which makes it hard for thr defense to keep points off the board. Diggs and Theilen had drops. The offense could not block Hughes who they couldn't block last time the Vikings played the Bill's either. They were not well prepared for this game when they had every reason to be. At home in a friendly environment they just did not play hard enough or well enough to win.
Zimmer took responsibility for the team not being prepared. However can he correct it?
Only time will tell. They won't beat anyone playing the way they did yesterday though.
The Bill's deserve credit. They played inspired and executed well unlike the Vikings.
The only hope I have is that this may wake the team up now. I know they are capable of playing much better than they did yestetday.
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
This Everson Griffen bizzaro incident might help explain the bizzarro game they played on Sunday...
mr roboto
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Haven't watched the tape, only the highlights, but you'd do well to not read too much into a game that gets out of hand.
The Bills aren't as good as they looked and the Vikings aren't a bad team by any means. It's just the up/down nature of the NFL. Lions got boat raced by the Jets and two weeks later
How many more games in your lifetime do you think the Vikings will have RB rushing totals of 3-12-0? Cook probably plays this week, right? I know the line is suboptimal but they're gonna be an effective running team in 2018. Lines gell and improve as the year goes on.
Cousins, throughout his career - and you guys living in the midwest probably saw him a fair amount at MSU as well - is a checkdown QB when things are going bad up front. But when he has time and gets on a roll, he's an above average QB. You guys don't need an elite QB, you've already got great players at RB-TE-WR.
Weird game for the defense but they'll bounce back.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
There was some shuffling going on with the offensive line.
Snap counts
R Reiff T 66 100%
T Compton G 66 100%
M Remmers G 66 100%
B O'Neill T 47 71%
B Jones C 44 67%
P Elflein C 22 33%
R Hill T 19 29%
Hill was injured pretty early in the game and why O'Neil played 71% of the snaps. They were likely shifting help from RB and TE towards O'Neill on the right side, so part of the reason why Reiff wasn't getting help with Hughes.
Pat Elflien mixed in with Jones at Center. He didn't start but he did play a third of the snaps there.
I think Mike Compton is the weakest link of the offensive line, but maybe it is Remmers? Compton and Remmers played all of the offensive snaps. I am hoping with Elflein getting healthy this means either Jones or Elflein end up starting at guard which would send Compton or Remmers to the bench. Having the two centers split playing time is kind of strange, like they are evaluating their play still and trying to make some decisions about the line up. Elflein did have a couple bad snaps that Cousins had to recover. He has issues with his snaps as a rookie last year as well. Not much time for Elf and Cousins to practice together and get comfortable with that yet.
Because Elflein is more mobile than Jones I think I would prefer he moved to guard instead of Jones, but not sure what the Vikings plans are in regards to this.
Snap counts
R Reiff T 66 100%
T Compton G 66 100%
M Remmers G 66 100%
B O'Neill T 47 71%
B Jones C 44 67%
P Elflein C 22 33%
R Hill T 19 29%
Hill was injured pretty early in the game and why O'Neil played 71% of the snaps. They were likely shifting help from RB and TE towards O'Neill on the right side, so part of the reason why Reiff wasn't getting help with Hughes.
Pat Elflien mixed in with Jones at Center. He didn't start but he did play a third of the snaps there.
I think Mike Compton is the weakest link of the offensive line, but maybe it is Remmers? Compton and Remmers played all of the offensive snaps. I am hoping with Elflein getting healthy this means either Jones or Elflein end up starting at guard which would send Compton or Remmers to the bench. Having the two centers split playing time is kind of strange, like they are evaluating their play still and trying to make some decisions about the line up. Elflein did have a couple bad snaps that Cousins had to recover. He has issues with his snaps as a rookie last year as well. Not much time for Elf and Cousins to practice together and get comfortable with that yet.
Because Elflein is more mobile than Jones I think I would prefer he moved to guard instead of Jones, but not sure what the Vikings plans are in regards to this.
whole-show
Footballguy
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Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I hope his demons, whatever they are, are not Dimitrius Underwood serious. Some human concerns ,must transcend rivalries. Good luck young man.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Tanner9919
Footballguy
the more I see of Minny, the less I like of the incompetent coaching staff..they're schizophrenia on offense is puzzling..wtf are they doing? can they at least try to run the ball, please..can we have just one ball carrier.you spend a billion dollars to get Cousins here whats the problem? I thought Diggs was good..I thought that defense was great what's happening??!
this is just plain bad coaching, the staff is WORSE than the staff in ATL, and that's saying something - I didn't think you could get worse in-game management than the Falcons coaching staff, but my oh my Minnesota takes the cake..
this is a case of drop every Vikings player you have , sans maybe theilen, and never look back - it's very apparent that they overachieved last season,and conversely, they're full-blown underachieving this season..total regression to mediocrity, dull as dish water offense and equally bland defense..
as outdoorsmen would say, 'that dog won't hunt' ..and it wont..so , you shoot it, and go get yourself another dog..well I mean that's what I'd do..
trying to get whatever I can for Cook and the Vikes defense.fire sale. can't handle the inconsistencies..
this is just plain bad coaching, the staff is WORSE than the staff in ATL, and that's saying something - I didn't think you could get worse in-game management than the Falcons coaching staff, but my oh my Minnesota takes the cake..
this is a case of drop every Vikings player you have , sans maybe theilen, and never look back - it's very apparent that they overachieved last season,and conversely, they're full-blown underachieving this season..total regression to mediocrity, dull as dish water offense and equally bland defense..
as outdoorsmen would say, 'that dog won't hunt' ..and it wont..so , you shoot it, and go get yourself another dog..well I mean that's what I'd do..
trying to get whatever I can for Cook and the Vikes defense.fire sale. can't handle the inconsistencies..
BigJim®
Footballguy
I don't think it is a staff thing. It seems like mostly execution by players. Dumb and avoidable penalties extending drives. Completely blown coverages. Critical dropped passes, including the interception gift wraps by Treadwell and Murray. I think kick returners are trying too hard to be a spark plug. The OL is miserably bad, and that is what it all ultimately comes down to. Who knows if Elflein might lead it to mediocrity (a big improvement). That might be enough. But 0-10% coaching problem, JMHO.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
I knew back in May that the Rams had the best D in the NFL. I now think they are by far the best team in the NFL. I don't expect the Vikings to hang with them. If it is at all close I will be surprised.
Deamon
Footballguy
I don't care HOW the game is going, you DON'T give your starting Running Back TWO carries the entire game!
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Well I hope you are really surprised.Donnybrook said:
I don't agree that the additions of Suh, Peters and Talib made the Rams a better defense than the Vikings. I know you are a huge fan of Peters so I can sort of get why you might think this, I just don't agree.
From what I have read Talib and Peters might not play in this game. Griffen and Waynes are likely out as well. Neither team will be at full strength, so your beliefs from May not really applicable to who these teams are now.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Seems like a big culprit for defensive woes is pass rush. Just too much time allowed for Goff to wait for mismatches to develop. You're always going to have unfavorable match-ups with a LB in coverage. The solution would be for the QB to be scrambling for his life when that happens, not planting roots in his spot and able to deliver surgical accuracy. As always, whether O or D, everything flows from winning the trenches.
mr roboto
Footballguy
Agreed, but not being able to stop the run is also a huge problem. It's one of the reasons play-action and misdirection are killing them. I really thought with Joseph and Richardson inside, the Vikings would be tough to run on... but thus far this season, I've spent much of my attention on those 2 guys and they are quite simply getting pushed backwards too often. It's incredibly disappointing. Seems like it was just yesterday that Joseph was blowing up run plays in the backfield on a regular basis.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I would hate to think the cupboard is so bare with the other names on that line and guys we've been developing, but one could argue this line has not been the same since Everson's injury against Cleveland. It probably is related to how aggressive Zimmer wants to get with the blitz. I saw some comments elsewhere that H.Smith was showing blitz a number of times and then staying to support run defense, which made him irrelevant when the play became a pass. I do think until our front four perform, having would be pass defenders like Barr/H.Smith blitz may be too much risk for Zimmer.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Agreed. Joseph has been a immovable object up until this season. Gurley was consistently getting 7+ yards on 1st down runs.
Now Gurley is the best RB in the NFL right now, he deserves credit for those runs, but Joseph and the rest of the offensive line was getting pushed back on 1st downs most of the game. A victory for the defense was only allowing Gurley 4 yards instead of 8 or 9.
If the offense is having that much success on 1st down, it leaves them open to doing it every first down and they can do anything they want to convert the first down.
I think RIchardson gets schemed around in the running game a lot. He does get penetration pretty often though. In that sense, I think he has been playing better than Joseph, but if you could elaborate on that, or correct me much appreciated. I haven't been focusing on those guys perhaps as much as you have. When I try to watch them, they are often being engulfed by blockers.
Weatherly is all right. He was getting close to Goff at times. He just seems to miss that burst of speed to close on the ball carrier that the really good ones have, like Griffen. I think Bower has that burst to close, but he isn't as long as Weatherly and likely gets out of position more than Weatherly does right now.
I think the depth talent at DE is fine, Weatherly and Bower are still developing though.
My concern is actually more about the push up the middle from Joseph that seems to be missing so far this year.
