What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Minnesota Vikings Team Thread (5 Viewers)

BigJim® said:
I get it, but I will be spitting nails if it happens.
Click to expand...
I am actually starting to think that there is some quality players at offensive line in the draft that could maybe even should fall to the 2nd and 3rd round.

Some folks think they should draft nothing but offensive linemen and I cannot rule out that idea.

 
Biabreakable said:
I am actually starting to think that there is some quality players at offensive line in the draft that could maybe even should fall to the 2nd and 3rd round.
Click to expand...
You're just tweaking me, right? After last draft, where the Vikes went in with a cocksure plan and came away a day late and dollar short to their only team need, I'll pass. As far as I'm concerned this team needs 1. OL, 2. OL, 3. OL. That's based somewhat on their lousy scouting at the position, and need to come away with at least 1.

 
BigJim® said:
You're just tweaking me, right? After last draft, where the Vikes went in with a cocksure plan and came away a day late and dollar short to their only team need, I'll pass. As far as I'm concerned this team needs 1. OL, 2. OL, 3. OL. That's based somewhat on their lousy scouting at the position, and need to come away with at least 1.
Click to expand...
Not at all.

The Vikings still haven't hired an offensive line coach yet.

I would expect Kubiak to have a lot of input on the kinds of linemen they are looking for. 

 
BigJim® said:
No. There's no player at all the Vikings should consider over OL.
Click to expand...
As a total hypothetical... If Nick Bosa made it to the Vikings' pick, you know where all the other teams just forgot he was in the draft, would you take an average offensive lineman or the best player in the draft?

 
Andy Dufresne said:
As a total hypothetical... If Nick Bosa made it to the Vikings' pick, you know where all the other teams just forgot he was in the draft, would you take an average offensive lineman or the best player in the draft?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure how to respond to those facts. Are the facts I must assume a guy turns into a stud and the OL is actually average? I just feel like the Vikes have gone down that very rabbit hole you describe year after year after year. Simply put, there is no guy we've taken in the first round of any recent draft that was more important in 2018 than a decent OL would have been. It's just a catastrophic problem on this team, no matter how talented they are elsewhere..

 
You can't go in just saying... "We're gonna draft OL and nothing else."

What if there's a run on OL before Minnesota's pick.  Let's say there are 8 OL taken before the 18th pick.  Do you really want them to take the 9th best OL in the draft over the best LB or second best DT?  I know I wouldn't, despite how badly we need to improve there.  There are a few real difference maker O linemen in the draft, but there are 15-25 guys who are separated by degrees only.  Those guys are always crap shoots on whether they'll work out or not and I'd rather use the 1st on a sure fire thing than a dice roll.

 
encaitar said:
You can't go in just saying... "We're gonna draft OL and nothing else."

What if there's a run on OL before Minnesota's pick.  Let's say there are 8 OL taken before the 18th pick.  Do you really want them to take the 9th best OL in the draft over the best LB or second best DT?  I know I wouldn't, despite how badly we need to improve there.  There are a few real difference maker O linemen in the draft, but there are 15-25 guys who are separated by degrees only.  Those guys are always crap shoots on whether they'll work out or not and I'd rather use the 1st on a sure fire thing than a dice roll.
Click to expand...
Isn't that essentially what happened in the 2018 draft? What you described doesn't only impact the 1st. It affects the talent available in subsequent rounds also. Seems like the rest of the NFL recognizes the value of OL. I'm actually not too concerned that my fears play out. I see the possibility that Wilf's tolerate paying Cousins $84M with a joke of an OL as 0%.

 
BigJim® said:
Isn't that essentially what happened in the 2018 draft? What you described doesn't only impact the 1st. It affects the talent available in subsequent rounds also. Seems like the rest of the NFL recognizes the value of OL. I'm actually not too concerned that my fears play out. I see the possibility that Wilf's tolerate paying Cousins $84M with a joke of an OL as 0%.
Click to expand...
I would say that last year doesn't quite fit the hypothetical here. We're discussing taking average o-line talent over good talent elsewhere.

Last year, the Vikings simply bypassed good talent. They really should have taken one of Hernandez, Braden Smith, or James Daniels. 

Although Hughes was looking like the real deal.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
I would say that last year doesn't quite fit the hypothetical here. We're discussing taking average o-line talent over good talent elsewhere.

Last year, the Vikings simply bypassed good talent. They really should have taken one of Hernandez, Braden Smith, or James Daniels. 

Although Hughes was looking like the real deal.
Click to expand...
I get it, and what you originally asked was a decent hypothetical (no-brainer other position available) and then Encaiter asked a different question (what if there is a run at the position). For my money, I very simply look at whether the team is improved in any significant way. If we can't get a singular yard running the ball, and our QB is pressured more than any other QB, we won't be a contender, point blank. That's whether or not we draft the next Lawrence Taylor. That's not to say there isn't a longer term benefit, but it's more of a rebuild move than what I and most fans expect.

 
One other thing on the 2018 draft... I was listening to KFAN and think it was Leber  PA mentioned that the post-draft talk last year was that Will Hernandez was not the right type of OL for the JDF offense, yet by week 10 Zimmer had decided he wants a more road-grading offense that is committed to the run - something that was a strength of Hernandez. Leber PA was frustrated, and I am frustrated, that the decisions being made are based on short-sighted factors/considerations, and the team just sort of winds up having not improved the OL. 

ETA: Could have been Bercich

 
Last edited by a moderator:
BigJim® said:
One other thing on the 2018 draft... I was listening to KFAN and think it was Leber mentioning that the post-draft talk last year was that Will Hernandez was not the right type of OL for the JDF offense, yet by week 10 Zimmer had decided he wants a more road-grading offense that is committed to the run - something that was a strength of Hernandez. Leber was frustrated, and I am frustrated, that the decisions being made are based on short-sighted factors/considerations, and the team just sort of winds up having not improved the OL. 

ETA: Could have been Bercich
Click to expand...
Why would Hernandez have been a bad fit for DeFlippos WCO?

Pat Shurmur runs the same offense with the Giants and they did not think he was a bad fit for it.

I am not buying that as a reason why they selected Hughes over him.

 
Biabreakable said:
Why would Hernandez have been a bad fit for DeFlippos WCO?

Pat Shurmur runs the same offense with the Giants and they did not think he was a bad fit for it.

I am not buying that as a reason why they selected Hughes over him.
Click to expand...
Well, it was actually from Paul Allen on with Wobby... had to go and find it. Whether you believe it or not, Paul claimed he and others were told behind the scenes that Will Hernandez was deemed not to be a good fit.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/139-paul-allen-kfan-fm-1003-26980875/episodes/ [beginning at 35:55 of the podcast] 

I did a google search Hernandez scheme fit Vikings and there did seem to be speculation that supports what Paul said.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
BigJim® said:
Well, it was actually from Paul Allen on with Wobby... had to go and find it. Whether you believe it or not, Paul claimed he and others were told behind the scenes that Will Hernandez was deemed not to be a good fit.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/139-paul-allen-kfan-fm-1003-26980875/episodes/ [beginning at 35:55 of the podcast] 
Click to expand...
Yeah I do not have any doubt that Paul Allen said this and perhaps this is something someone close to the team told him.

That does not mean that Paul Allen isn't a PR shill for the Vikings who will be given excuses like this to tell fans of the team, whether those excuses are accurate or not. Maybe it is accurate, I would just need to hear a reason why Hernandez didn't fit the Vikings.

The Vikings obviously had some reason they did not think Hernandez was a better player for the team than Mike Hughes. I think most of it is that Mike Hughes is very good and at a position of higher priority to the Vikings than Hernandez was.

Spielman did say that he was surprised with the run at offensive line in the 2nd round (he should not have been in my opinion) 4 offensive linemen at the top of the 2nd round, that were very close to Vikings first round pick at 30. 

Pick 33 Austin Corbett

Pick 34 Will Hernandez

Pick 37 Braden SMith

Pick 39 James Daniels (who I was most interested in)

Then

Pick 50 Connor Williams

With pick 62 the Vikings were able to get Brian O'Neil in the 2nd round after that run of linemen players.

If the Vikings wanted any of those 4 linemen they needed to take those players at pick 30 over Mike Hughes, and I am not really even buying Spielmans comments about being surprised by the run on then at the beginning of the 2nd round. I am just a fan and that outcome seemed pretty obvious to me and other people.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Biabreakable said:
Yeah I do not have any doubt that Paul Allen said this and perhaps this is something someone close to the team told him.

That does not mean that Paul Allen isn't a PR shill for the Vikings who will be given excuses like this to tell fans of the team, whether those excuses are accurate or not. Maybe it is accurate, I would just need to hear a reason why Hernandez didn't fit the Vikings.

The Vikings obviously had some reason they did not think Hernandez was a better player for the team than Mike Hughes. I think most of it is that Mike Hughes is very good and at a position of higher priority to the Vikings than Hernandez was.

Spielman did say that he was surprised with the run at offensive line in the 2nd round (he should not have been in my opinion) 4 offensive linemen at the top of the 2nd round, that were very close to Vikings first round pick at 30. 

Pick 33 Austin Corbett

Pick 34 Will Hernandez

Pick 37 Braden SMith

Pick 39 James Daniels (who I was most interested in)

Then

Pick 50 Connor Williams

With pick 62 the Vikings were able to get Brian O'Neil in the 2nd round after that run of linemen players.

If the Vikings wanted any of those 4 linemen they needed to take those players at pick 30 over Mike Hughes, and I am not really even buying Spielmans comments about being surprised by the run on then at the beginning of the 2nd round. I am just a fan and that outcome seemed pretty obvious to me and other people.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think the reality is, and I've heard others go into detail on it, Spielman/Zimmer just don't put much value on OL. Unsurprising this team would wind up in the current state, given that.

 
BigJim® said:
Yeah, I think the reality is, and I've heard others go into detail on it, Spielman/Zimmer just don't put much value on OL. Unsurprising this team would wind up in the current state, given that.
Click to expand...
Following the draft I heard Speilman and Mike ZImmer basically say that they do not value offensive linemen that highly compared to a player like Mike Hughes.

The Vikings might not keep Trey Waynes after this season. I think Waynes has continued to improve and that Mackenzie Alexander improved last season as well, but ZImmer wasn't confident in Alexander getting better before last year. Holton Hill just added to the Vikings quality of players at the position.

The Vikings have so many good corners right now that it wouldn't surprise me if they traded Waynes. He is on a 1 year contract due to the Vikings picking up the 5th year option. Only 26 years old, I think the Vikings could possibly get 1st round type value for him if they did trade him. Maybe only 2nd round value due to only 1 year on the contract.

Going into the draft they may have considered corner to be a greater need than how it looks right now. If they were not counting on Alexander to be able to start (they were not) or keeping Waynes long term.

 
Biabreakable said:
Following the draft I heard Speilman and Mike ZImmer basically say that they do not value offensive linemen that highly compared to a player like Mike Hughes.

The Vikings might not keep Trey Waynes after this season. I think Waynes has continued to improve and that Mackenzie Alexander improved last season as well, but ZImmer wasn't confident in Alexander getting better before last year. Holton Hill just added to the Vikings quality of players at the position.

The Vikings have so many good corners right now that it wouldn't surprise me if they traded Waynes. He is on a 1 year contract due to the Vikings picking up the 5th year option. Only 26 years old, I think the Vikings could possibly get 1st round type value for him if they did trade him. Maybe only 2nd round value due to only 1 year on the contract.

Going into the draft they may have considered corner to be a greater need than how it looks right now. If they were not counting on Alexander to be able to start (they were not) or keeping Waynes long term.
Click to expand...
Right, they clearly have the aptitude to analyze deeply their CB needs. I just wish they could do that re: the OL. They can't have realistically thought O'Neil solved OL for them, yet they anguish over depth behind a nickel corner, on what will be a top 10 defense regardless.

 
Near the end of the season Zimmer was saying he didn't have enough corners (healthy).

The nickle does play about 70% of the plays, so an important starter, but yes I get your point that it was not a position of as great a need as offensive line.

They may have gotten lucky O'Neil lasted that long.

It is possible that Spielman feels burned by using such a high pick on Matt Kalil and has been gunshy ever since.

 
Biabreakable said:
Near the end of the season Zimmer was saying he didn't have enough corners (healthy).

The nickle does play about 70% of the plays, so an important starter, but yes I get your point that it was not a position of as great a need as offensive line.

They may have gotten lucky O'Neil lasted that long.

It is possible that Spielman feels burned by using such a high pick on Matt Kalil and has been gunshy ever since.
Click to expand...
I'm not going to put it on Zimmer. If he could roster 10 CBs, I'm sure he would. That's how defensive minded coaches think. Given that he, himself, had to backpedal after calling our OL "soft" 3 years ago for fear of them curling into full boar fetal position, he should know better. He should be sick of the wasted opportunities, but old dog/new tricks. Zimmer's always going to campaign for new shiny defenders, but it's Spielman's responsibility to make the calls that need to be made.

Call it a hunch, but if Spielman doesn't figure out the OL this offseason, I think that's a wrap. I'm not anti-Spielman at all; I think he's done a good job finding talent. Problem is, he's bass ackwards when it comes to building offense. If I wanted to relive it all, I could go back to the days of Tarvaris and find my posts about how dumb it is to put a rookie QB behind a terrible line and expect growth. I posted the same thing with Ponder. Posted the same thing with Treadwell, and then Cook - how can these guys hope to flourish? Here we are in 2019, OL as bad as its ever been.  

 
Maybe this is something Zimmer was hinting at as far as not having Tony Sparano there to argue with ZImmer. To be another voice ZImmer said he needed. 

Perhaps Kubiak is going to be that guy now and the scouting department plus Spielman are going to listen to him a lot as far as how to build the offensive line.

 
BTW- my posts seem overly negative. I like this as a contending team even if it fields a middle of the road OL. I feel like we are that close if Cousins, Diggs, Thielen and Cooks have opportunities and we can keep chains moving  I think they will make a big OL splash this offseason. They know they need to solve for Mack/Hicks if they are going to win the division. Hicks is just such a beast.

 
Here is a list of the free agents for 2019. Free agency will open just after the NFL combine. The players are listed in the order of highest previous salary, so some indication of how teams value the player relative to others at their position. Some comments by me at the end of the line if I know anything about the player.

Ryan Kalil    C    34    CAR    TBD    $8,375,000    UFA    - Retired
Mike Iupati    G    32    ARI    TBD    $8,000,000    UFA    - Not the player he once was and more of a power lineman anyways, doesn't fit the ZBS
Andy Levitre    G    33    ATL    TBD    $7,800,000    UFA    - Old but this guy was playing some very good football a few years ago. Not sure he is still playing at that level though.
Jared Veldheer    RT    32    DEN    TBD    $7,000,000    UFA    - Not sure how well he played forthe Broncos.
Rodger Saffold    G    31    LA    TBD    $6,269,447    UFA    - Looks like one of the better optoons that may be available. Not young and won't be cheap.
James Carpenter    G    30    NYJ    TBD    $4,775,000    UFA    - 
Ramon Foster    G    33    PIT    TBD    $3,200,000    UFA    - Old but has been part of a very good offensive line using primarily the ZBS.
Brett Jones    C    28    MIN    TBD    $2,914,000    UFA    - Vikings already know about this guy. Jones played on 191 snaps for the Vikings in the first 3 games. None after week 3.
Ty Nsekhe    LT    33    WAS    TBD    $2,914,000    UFA    - Old. Played decently against Everson Griffen as pointed out in the article above.
Nick Easton    C    27    MIN    TBD    $2,914,000    UFA    - The Vikings traded for this guy at one point and likely do want him back.
Ben Garland    G    31    ATL    TBD    $2,914,000    UFA    -
Matt Paradis    C    29    DEN    TBD    $2,914,000    UFA    -
Ryan Groy    G    28    BUF    TBD    $2,500,000    UFA    -
Cameron Fleming    T    26    DAL    TBD    $2,500,000    UFA    - This is a younger player that Spielman usually tries to target in free agency.
Benjamin Ijalana    RT    30    NYJ    TBD    $2,500,000    UFA    -
Matt Slauson    G    33    IND    TBD    $2,500,000    UFA    -
Chance Warmack    G    27    PHI    TBD    $2,500,000    UFA    - Quality guard who has played on two one year contracts for the Eagles since leaving the Titaans. Not sure if he is quick enough for the scheme.
Cedric Ogbuehi    LT    27    CIN    TBD    $2,331,419    UFA    -
Ja'Wuan James    RT    27    MIA    TBD    $2,107,100    UFA    -  I have heard mixed reviews on James.
Billy Turner    G    27    DEN    TBD    $2,000,000    UFA    - This is a guard I really liked when watching him at the college level.
Brent Qvale    RT    28    NYJ    TBD    $1,907,000    UFA    -
Quinton Spain    G    28    TEN    TBD    $1,907,000    UFA    -
Jordan Mills    RT    28    BUF    TBD    $1,900,000    UFA    -
Byron Bell    RT    30    GB    TBD    $1,600,000    UFA    -
Donovan Smith    LT    26    TB    TBD    $1,517,215    UFA    -
J.R. Sweezy    G    30    SEA    TBD    $1,500,000    UFA    -
LaAdrian Waddle    RT    28    NE    TBD    $1,500,000    UFA    -
D.J. Fluker    G    28    SEA    TBD    $1,500,000    UFA    -
Marshall Newhouse    RT    30    CAR    TBD    $1,500,000    UFA    -
Kevin Pamphile    G    28    TEN    TBD    $1,400,000    UFA    -
Eric Kush    G    29    CHI    TBD    $1,350,000    UFA    -
Mitch Morse    C    27    KC    TBD    $1,168,269    UFA    -
John Greco    G    34    NYG    TBD    $1,105,000    UFA    -
Jake Fisher    LT    26    CIN    TBD    $1,064,880    UFA    -
Tyler Shatley    G    28    JAC    TBD    $1,027,500    UFA    -
Jermon Bushrod    G    35    NO    TBD    $1,015,000    UFA    -
Bobby Hart    RT    25    CIN    TBD    $1,005,000    UFA    -
Ty Sambrailo    LT    27    ATL    TBD    $961,489    UFA    -
Earl Watford    RT    29    CLE    TBD    $950,000    UFA    -
Michael Person    G    31    SF    TBD    $915,000    UFA    -
Chris Clark    LT    33    CAR    TBD    $915,000    UFA    -
Sam Young    LT    32    MIA    TBD    $915,000    UFA    -
Austin Howard    RT    32    WAS    TBD    $915,000    UFA    -
Zane Beadles    G    32    ATL    TBD    $915,000    UFA    -
Andre Smith    RT    32    CIN    TBD    $915,000    UFA    -
Joe Barksdale    RT    30    ARI    TBD    $915,000    UFA    -
Tom Compton    G    30    MIN    TBD    $900,000    UFA    - Don't want him back.
Marcus Martin    G    25    DAL    TBD    $880,000    UFA    -
Tony Bergstrom    C    33    WAS    TBD    $880,000    UFA    -
Dakota Dozier    G    28    NYJ    TBD    $880,000    UFA    -
Jordan Devey    G    31    KC    TBD    $880,000    UFA    -
Jonotthan Harrison    C    28    NYJ    TBD    $880,000    UFA    -
Amini Silatolu    G    30    CAR    TBD    $880,000    UFA    -
Travis Swanson    C    28    MIA    TBD    $850,000    UFA    -
A.J. Cann    G    27    JAC    TBD    $843,149    UFA    -
Jamon Brown    RT    26    NYG    TBD    $810,815    UFA    -
Josh Wells    RT    28    JAC    TBD    $797,500    UFA    -
Greg Robinson    LT    26    CLE    TBD    $790,000    UFA    -
Brian Schwenke    C    28    NE    TBD    $790,000    UFA    -
Josh LeRibeus    C    30    NO    TBD    $790,000    UFA    -
Jeff Allen    G    29    KC    TBD    $790,000    UFA    -
Wesley Johnson    C    28    MIA    TBD    $790,000    UFA    -
Bryan Witzmann    G    29    CHI    TBD    $790,000    UFA    -
J'Marcus Webb    RT    31    IND    TBD    $790,000    UFA    -
Jonathan Cooper    G    29    WAS    TBD    $790,000    UFA    -
Oday Aboushi    G    28    ARI    TBD    $790,000    UFA    -
Michael Ola    T    31    NO    TBD    $790,000    UFA    -
Patrick Omameh    G    29    JAC    TBD    $790,000    UFA    -
Luke Bowanko    C    28    WAS    TBD    $790,000    UFA    -
Gino Gradkowski    C    30    DEN    TBD    $790,000    UFA    -
Ulrick John    LT    27    NE    TBD    $745,000    UFA    -
John Miller    G    26    BUF    TBD    $740,030    UFA    -
Daryl Williams    RT    27    CAR    TBD    $709,280    UFA    -
Ereck Flowers    RT    25    JAC    TBD    $705,000    UFA    -
Corey Robinson    LT    27    JAC    TBD    $705,000    UFA    -
Chaz Green    G    27    OAK    TBD    $705,000    UFA    -
Zac Kerin    C    28    WAS    TBD    $705,000    UFA    -
T.J. Clemmings    RT    27    OAK    TBD    $701,239    UFA    - Yes TJ Clemmings is still in the league.
Jon Feliciano    G    27    OAK    TBD    $685,163    UFA    -
Arie Kouandjio    G    27    WAS    TBD    $660,000    UFA    -
Kendall Lamm    RT    27    HOU    TBD    $660,000    UFA    -
Josh Walker    G    28    JAC    TBD    $660,000    UFA    -
Andrew Donnal    RT    27    DET    TBD    $660,000    UFA    -
Max Garcia    G    27    DEN    TBD    $656,423    UFA    -
Joey Hunt    C    25    SEA    TBD    $630,000    RFA    -
Jake Brendel    C    26    MIA    TBD    $630,000    RFA    -
Jeremy Vujnovich    LT    28    ARI    TBD    $630,000    RFA    -
B.J. Finney    C    27    PIT    TBD    $630,000    RFA    -
John Wetzel    RT    28    ARI    TBD    $630,000    RFA    -
Josh Andrews    C    28    IND    TBD    $630,000    RFA    -
Trenton Brown    LT    26    NE    TBD    $583,973    UFA    -
Denzell Good    RT    28    OAK    TBD    $583,196    UFA    -
Lucas Patrick    G    26    GB    TBD    $555,000    ERFA    -
Daniel Munyer    C    27    ARI    TBD    $555,000    ERFA    -
Cole Toner    G    25    LAC    TBD    $555,000    ERFA    -
Justin McCray    G    27    GB    TBD    $555,000    ERFA    -
Elijah Wilkinson    T    24    DEN    TBD    $555,000    ERFA    -
Matt Skura    C    26    BAL    TBD    $555,000    ERFA    -
Jon Halapio    C    28    NYG    TBD    $555,000    ERFA    -
Kristjan Sokoli    G    27    NYG    TBD    $555,000    ERFA    -
Jermaine Eluemunor    G    24    BAL    TBD    $555,000    ERFA    -
Isaac Asiata    G    26    MIA    TBD    $555,000    ERFA    - I really liked this guy and the Vikings have some ties to him being Matt Asiatas brother. I think he could fit. Not sure why he didn't work out in Miami though.
Adam Pankey    T    25    GB    TBD    $555,000    ERFA    -
Leonard Wester    T    26    TB    TBD    $546,667    RFA    -
George Fant    T    27    SEA    TBD    $546,667    RFA    -
Spencer Pulley    C    26    NYG    TBD    $540,667    RFA    -
Rashod Hill    T    27    MIN    TBD    $540,000    RFA    -
Jesse Davis    T    27    MIA    TBD    $510,000    ERFA    -
Trey Hopkins    G    27    CIN    TBD    $510,000    ERFA    -
Rashaad Coward    G    24    CHI    TBD    $510,000    ERFA    -
Michael Liedtke    G    27    TB    TBD    $510,000    ERFA    -
Alex Redmond    G    24    CIN    TBD    $510,000    ERFA    -
Cameron Tom    G    24    NO    TBD    $510,000    ERFA    -
Zach Sterup    T    27    MIA    TBD    $510,000    ERFA    -
Chris Reed    T    27    JAC    TBD    $495,000    RFA    -
Matt Feiler    RT    27    PIT    TBD    $495,000    ERFA    -
Jordan Simmons    T    25    SEA    TBD    $480,000    ERFA    -
Benjamin Braden    T    25    NYJ    TBD    $480,000    ERFA    -
Justin Murray    T    26    OAK    TBD    $465,000    ERFA    -
Jake Eldrenkamp    G    25    NE    TBD    -    ERFA    

Any players from this list that you think the Vikings should target in free agency that I have not talked about?

 
Still no news as far as the Vikings hiring an offensive line coach (I assume they will??).

Rick Dennison preferred to stay on as the Jets‘ offensive line coach under new head coach Adam Gase, but New York instead hired Frank Pollack to guide their front five. However, both the Vikings and Packers remain “strong possibilities” for Dennison, per Marvez (Twitter link). Dennison had been expected to immediately follow Gary Kubiak — who was recently hired as a Vikings’ offensive advisor — to Minnesota, but that union hasn’t yet happened. Green Bay, meanwhile, has already hired Adam Stenavich as its offensive line coach, so Dennison would come aboard in a different position. Link
Click to expand...
Currently Andrew Janacko is the only offensive line coach listed on the Vikings main site as Co-offensive line coach.

Clancy Barone who was the Vikings other offensive line coach last season is not under contract. He has worked with Kubiak in Denver in 2015-2016. So Kubiak is very familiar with him as well as Dennison who are currently both available.

Also Terrence Newman may not be back as a defensive back coaching assistant as I guess he did not enjoy the grind of coaching. He hasn't made his mind up about that yet.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The future of the Vikings, Part 5: The offensive line

Free agency presents all types of options. The Vikings could think about Bucs tackle Donovan Smith if Reiff slides inside. New England’s starting left tackle Trent Brown is also a free agent. Washington’s Ty Nsekhe is an under-the-radar swing tackle who may have the capability to start full time.

— The guard market isn’t deep. Indy’s Mark Glowinski already signed a three-year deal to stay with the Colts and Los Angeles’s Roger Safford, the top free agent, has expressed interest in staying with the Rams. That leaves Pittsburgh’s 33-year-old Ramon Foster and Tennessee’s Quinton Spain as the top names on the market. Mike Pearson of San Francisco and Jacksonville’s AJ Cann could also get consideration.

— Another potential fix would be to move Elflein to guard, where he shined as a junior at Ohio State. Denver’s free agent center Matt Paradis is one of the top players at the position. It might be a more savvy play to sign a top center and slide Elflein over than going all-in on a veteran, less talented guard.
Click to expand...

 
Vikings Kirk Cousins ready to "make amends" for 2018.

Got this from Faust in the Cousins thread.

It will be interesting to see how Cousins and the offense perform in year two. A lot of that will depend on what happens with the offensive line of course. The question is can they coach him on how to handle pressure without making terrible decisions? He's been in the league a while now and had to deal with bad O-line play pretty much his whole career. I think improvement would have come a long time ago if it was ever going to happen.

 
Heatman said:
Vikings Kirk Cousins ready to "make amends" for 2018.

Got this from Faust in the Cousins thread.

It will be interesting to see how Cousins and the offense perform in year two. A lot of that will depend on what happens with the offensive line of course. The question is can they coach him on how to handle pressure without making terrible decisions? He's been in the league a while now and had to deal with bad O-line play pretty much his whole career. I think improvement would have come a long time ago if it was ever going to happen.
Click to expand...
It bothers me that Cousins buys into the criticism. It has gotten to him. Now it is a monkey on his back.

Cousins dealt with poor offensive line play his last season with Washington because several of their starters got injured. Prior to that he had a top 10 type group protecting him. I think What Cousins had in front of him last year was perhaps the worst protection he has had so far.

I think they can help Cousins by frequently rolling him out and moving the pocket, which is something Kubiak likes to do a lot combined with the running game and play action. This can help Cousins be more "creative" as the offense keeps changing the expected delivery point.

 
Biabreakable said:
I like him and Cody Ford who Funky Plutos mentioned.

What other linemen do you think are worth the 18th overall pick?
Click to expand...
I haven't forgotten this question and am keeping an ear to the ground to hear rumblings of guys that may surprise. One name that keeps coming up is Boston College guard Chris Lindstrom.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
I haven't forgotten this question and am keeping an ear to the ground to hear rumblings of guys that may surprise. One name that keeps coming up is Boston College guard Chris Lindstrom.
Click to expand...
Since some Vikings writers have been posting mock drafts for the Vikings using fanspeak on the clock draft simulator I figured why not just look at their big boards?

According to their big board here is where the offensive linemen stack up against the other positions:

7.OT Jonah Williams Alabama

10.OT Jawaan Taylor Florida

23.OT Greg Little Ole Miss

24.G Cody Ford Oklahoma

34.OT Andre Dillard Washington State

45.G Chris Lindstrom Boston College

51.C Erik McCoy Texas A&M

52.OT Yodny Cajuste West Virginia

67.G Michael Jordan Ohio State

I don't see RIsner listed anywhere on this big board. Walter football has Risner ranked as the 6th best tackle. I am getting the sense that he may be underrated in the mocks right now.

Todd McShay seems to think the top 3 offensive linemen (in his view) will be drafted before the Vikings pick at 18 which is why he selects another position. Greg Little was still available yet McShay doesn't think he is worth the pick.

According to the big board only 2 linemen were ranked higher than 18. 

 
When I'm bored at work I run through Fanspeak mocks. Some of those big boards are awful and in one draft I did I got Risner in the 7th. There is a zero percent chance of that happening.

 
Biabreakable said:
Since some Vikings writers have been posting mock drafts for the Vikings using fanspeak on the clock draft simulator I figured why not just look at their big boards?

According to their big board here is where the offensive linemen stack up against the other positions:

7.OT Jonah Williams Alabama

10.OT Jawaan Taylor Florida

23.OT Greg Little Ole Miss

24.G Cody Ford Oklahoma

34.OT Andre Dillard Washington State

45.G Chris Lindstrom Boston College

51.C Erik McCoy Texas A&M

52.OT Yodny Cajuste West Virginia

67.G Michael Jordan Ohio State

I don't see RIsner listed anywhere on this big board. Walter football has Risner ranked as the 6th best tackle. I am getting the sense that he may be underrated in the mocks right now.

Todd McShay seems to think the top 3 offensive linemen (in his view) will be drafted before the Vikings pick at 18 which is why he selects another position. Greg Little was still available yet McShay doesn't think he is worth the pick.

According to the big board only 2 linemen were ranked higher than 18. 
Click to expand...
I'm optimistic with Kubiak being around to provide early OL input. I saw a mock with Little being the pick. I'm trying not to get wrung around draft slot projections given the run we saw last draft. OL is a weakness for a lot of NFL teams, and I expect it to continue to carry a premium with the ungodly deals going to QBs. The rumored moving of Reiff might give OT/G flexibility. If any of these players will upgrade from Compton/Remmers, I'm for it. I'd love to see 2 OL, DT, DE taken in the first 4 picks.

 
BigJim® said:
I'm optimistic with Kubiak being around to provide early OL input. I saw a mock with Little being the pick. I'm trying not to get wrung around draft slot projections given the run we saw last draft. OL is a weakness for a lot of NFL teams, and I expect it to continue to carry a premium with the ungodly deals going to QBs. The rumored moving of Reiff might give OT/G flexibility. If any of these players will upgrade from Compton/Remmers, I'm for it. I'd love to see 2 OL, DT, DE taken in the first 4 picks.
Click to expand...
Yeah as Andy points out these big boards are not very good right now.

The prognosticator boards get more accurate leading up to the draft and they hear more things. The draftniks boards are done by now although there will be a revision after the combine.

I have watched Greg Little. I would be happy if he were the pick at 18 although I am open to some other players such as Risner being a better choice.

I think there is enough talent in the draft that the Vikings could take linemen with their first two picks and get some very good players. Maybe not the two best players in a vacuum? However it would be hard to say that a player from any other position will make as much of an impact to the team as an offensive lineman would.

The thing about moving Reiff inside is just the Vikings keeping their options open as you say. Reiff played pretty well I thought and I am not sure he would be better at guard (Remmers definitely wasn't) than tackle. The Vikings are basically saying he has too much of a cap hit so they won't cut him, but they are looking at all their options and not tied to him being their starter long term.

If the Vikings do not sign Richardson then DT is a very big need as well. I would like their first 3 picks to be a combination of linemen and I want one of their first two picks used at the offensive line position. I think DT is just as important for them to upgrade though. Richardson played well and maybe the Vikings sign him while letting Barr go. I'm not sure on that. If I am going to spend that much money though, I would rather spend it on RIchardson. I thought Eric Wilson was fine as Barrs replacement. I know ZImmer thinks differently, but Wilson had some good pass rushes and did ok in coverage too. Even if it is not Eric WIlson, I think it is easier to replace Barr than it is Richardson, although this is a good draft for defensive linemen.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The future of the Vikings, part 6: Defensive line

If Richardson is looking for a long-term contract in the ballpark of the top paid President Trump (around $15 million per season), it’s hard to see the Vikings being able to keep him.

Letting him walk is the lesser of the two worst case scenarios. The other is that the Vikings pay top dollar and Richardson’s production dips.
Click to expand...
Richardson may be too expensive to keep. If he goes to another team then under tackle becomes a very big need I think. Jaleel Johnson is ok and maybe Holmes will develop to play there, but those are pretty big unknowns. Personally I don't think Johnson is ready to be a starter or if he ever will be.

 
BigJim® said:
This is the other reason OL should be considered a premium position in the NFL draft. Few caliber OL hit the open market, and what is there gets grossly overpaid. Look at what Reiff/Remmers got. Draft is the only way to acquire talent at the position.
Click to expand...
Absolutely.

The Vikings will still use both ways to try to improve their team, but yes the free agents are in general overpayed like the Reiff and Remmers contracts show.

 
The future of the Vikings, part 9: Safeties

Anthony Harris

What worked:

Seemingly everything. Harris stepped in when Sendejo went down and played very well. He allowed just seven catches on 13 targets for 52 yards and picked off three passes. PFF rated him as the fifth best safety among players with more than 600 snaps, grading his run defense and coverage sixth in the NFL.

Harris is a remarkably smart player whose familiarity with Zimmer’s defense and experience as a backup set him up to be prepared for a starting role.

What didn’t work:

While the Vikings’ defense held Chicago in Week 17 down for a large portion of the game, Harris did not have a great performance. He put together his third lowest overall grade by PFF and his worst tackling grade since his rookie year (2015).

Best case scenario for 2019:

If Harris, a Restricted Free Agent, returns to Minnesota and continues to work well alongside Smith.

Worst case scenario for 2019: 

If Harris is given the full-time starting gig in 2019 and proves to be a flash in the pan.
Click to expand...
I have always liked the way Harris plays. I was surprised to see him grade so highly by PFF though. Maybe Harris is even better than I think.

I tend to disagree with a lot of what PFF says but I hear about it all the time anyways thanks to journalists who have found their content useful writing material.

 
Biabreakable said:
The future of the Vikings, part 9: Safeties

I have always liked the way Harris plays. I was surprised to see him grade so highly by PFF though. Maybe Harris is even better than I think.

I tend to disagree with a lot of what PFF says but I hear about it all the time anyways thanks to journalists who have found their content useful writing material.
Click to expand...
All I know is seemingly every time an opposing QB went in his direction, Harris shut the play down. Other than those missed tackles in the last week, he was awesome last year.

 
-arcK- said:
All I know is seemingly every time an opposing QB went in his direction, Harris shut the play down. Other than those missed tackles in the last week, he was awesome last year.
Click to expand...
Yeah they should be fine in the secondary and let Dejo go to save money for Thielen and free agents.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

The Noid
2024 Philadelphia Eagles - Draft Day! Round by round it goes, who will we pick? No one knows!
35 36 37
Replies
2K
Views
129K
unckeyherb
unckeyherb
JohnnyU
RIP Bud Grant
Replies
16
Views
606
skol asylum
skol asylum
ignatiusjreilly
How many first-round QBs will actually pan out?
Replies
12
Views
374
ignatiusjreilly
ignatiusjreilly

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 6 (members: 1, guests: 5)
Top