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2022 Minnesota Vikings (6 Viewers)

Kubiak: Looking Forward To Getting Back In The Foxhole and Battling

When asked about Rick Dennison he says Dennison is an engineer and that he is very smart.  RIck was raised by Mike (Shanahan) and Alex Gibbs scheme wise. He is a great teacher. He knows how to start from the bottom up. 

He says they want to marry the passing game to the run game,  Having a run coordinator is a huge help. For me as a play caller all those years, having Rick design the run game, being able to marry what we are doing in the passing game with the run game each week. 

He says he would have 100% confidence in Rick, he would ask Rick to give him the top 3 runs for this series and talking to him all the time.

He says he will be in the booth with Stefanski calling plays on the sideline.

 
Biabreakable said:
Kubiak: Looking Forward To Getting Back In The Foxhole and Battling

When asked about Rick Dennison he says Dennison is an engineer and that he is very smart.  RIck was raised by Mike (Shanahan) and Alex Gibbs scheme wise. He is a great teacher. He knows how to start from the bottom up. 

He says they want to marry the passing game to the run game,  Having a run coordinator is a huge help. For me as a play caller all those years, having Rick design the run game, being able to marry what we are doing in the passing game with the run game each week. 

He says he would have 100% confidence in Rick, he would ask Rick to give him the top 3 runs for this series and talking to him all the time.

He says he will be in the booth with Stefanski calling plays on the sideline.
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After hearing the interview on KFAN today I’m LOVING the Kubiak here even more. The Wilf’s really stepped up to give the team another high level mind. 

Two things really stood out for me:

Kubiak said he already evaluated all the players coming out so he’s ahead of the game on that. This will make Spielman’s draft even better having checks and balances to supplement his weak areas, like hopefully OL. 

Kubiak evaluated all the young coaches in the league last year. He seems to really like Stefansky and said he will be a HC one day. 

I ❤️ what these two next level analytical tasks add to his vast experience and it keeps him in tune with current trends. He’s so confident and cool. Just a great add to the Vikings staff. So excited!

 
Biabreakable said:
Then how does it work?

It is not like every play is the same.

I think Vike Me makes a good point.
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Taking what he said at face value - calling a guy a #3 receiver doesn't mean that he's always the 3rd read.

The article you yourself linked did a fine job explaining all that.

To expand a little further, if you don't have that 3rd option as a threat, and teams know it, that puts a lot of pressure on your line to protect long enough to allow options 1 & 2 to shake loose. What happens more often is the play breaks down. 

Without quoting the whole article, this suffices to sum up the point I'm making (and it's why I had them take Campbell in the mock we all did)

"...

It became apparent throughout the second half of the year that the Vikings had no answer.

“I think for the most part, third downs, we’re getting a lot of double coverage, both of us,” Thielen said. “Some games, on first and second downs, as well. It’s a little bit different than what we got early in the season, obviously. But at the same time, that’s what we expected to get and what we’ve gotten.”

Per Pro-Football Reference, the Vikings were 26th in yards per play on third downs with more than six yards to go."

Now, this shouldn't be interpreted as me advocating taking a #3 WR in the first. Just that it's definitely a problem area.

 
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As far as a QB getting to their 3rd read on a play it depends on what kind of play it is. If the play is a 3 step drop then the QB isn't going to have much of a post snap read or to go through progressions. On a play action or 5 or more step drop the QB takes a bit more time before releasing the ball provided they have protection from the offensive line that long.

You are absolutely right though that the Vikings need a 3rd threat on passing downs to preven't the high frequency of double teams on Diggs and Thielen. If the player (Treadwell) isn't a threat to the defense then it just invites the defense to double team the guys who are threats. While I don't think Jarrius Wright is that great, he was good enough to beat one on one coverage against a teams 3rd corner. Treadwell can't do that. Rudolph the check down king can't do that either.

Maybe Bebee can do that.Hard to say he was a rookie. I liked what I saw from him though. He runs good routes. Maybe not as quick as Wright but otherwise promising I think.

As I said in the other discussion I think the Vikings best answer to this was to line up Cook in the slot and have him be the 3rd option, but the Vikings didn't really do that last year.

I am wondering if the Vikings might sign a free agent WR to fill this role also. I just haven't spent much time looking at the free agents available. I am hoping the focus of the offseason is primarily improving in the trenches.

 
Which offensive linemen stood out at the Combine?

There have been a lot of rumors of the Vikings trading Trey Waynes. There is enough smoke that I think there may be some fire too.

I am guessing the Vikings could get a 2nd round pick for him. I doubt they can get a 1st because of the high $ one year contract which will require the trade partner to sign Waynes to a long term contract.

Zimmer continues to say he wants Barr back but I think he walks as well.

 
Biabreakable said:
Which offensive linemen stood out at the Combine?

There have been a lot of rumors of the Vikings trading Trey Waynes. There is enough smoke that I think there may be some fire too.

I am guessing the Vikings could get a 2nd round pick for him. I doubt they can get a 1st because of the high $ one year contract which will require the trade partner to sign Waynes to a long term contract.

Zimmer continues to say he wants Barr back but I think he walks as well.
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Really seems like Barr wants to go back to the west coast and/or get paid as an edge rusher. I'd be amazed if he signed back on with Minnesota.

 
Biabreakable said:
Which offensive linemen stood out at the Combine?

There have been a lot of rumors of the Vikings trading Trey Waynes. There is enough smoke that I think there may be some fire too.

I am guessing the Vikings could get a 2nd round pick for him. I doubt they can get a 1st because of the high $ one year contract which will require the trade partner to sign Waynes to a long term contract.

Zimmer continues to say he wants Barr back but I think he walks as well.
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I think you are WAY too high on what Waynes is worth. I'd venture mid 3rd rounder at best, due to both contract concerns and on field inconsistency. Frankly, I don't think they'd get a 2 for Rhodes even. 

I would bet Barr leaves. He's never really played up to his potential, and he's highly likely to be overpaid. That said, that creates a big need at LB, and I wonder if that could be where the Vikings go in round 1, especially if somehow Devin White is still on the board.

 
travdogg said:
I think you are WAY too high on what Waynes is worth. I'd venture mid 3rd rounder at best, due to both contract concerns and on field inconsistency. Frankly, I don't think they'd get a 2 for Rhodes even. 

I would bet Barr leaves. He's never really played up to his potential, and he's highly likely to be overpaid. That said, that creates a big need at LB, and I wonder if that could be where the Vikings go in round 1, especially if somehow Devin White is still on the board.
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Well Wayne's is still young and experienced starting corner that I dont think is as easily replaceable as a 3rd round pick.

I'm not the only one who thinks he is worth that.

It seems likely Barr will be gone. I like Eric Wilson but yes the Vikings may be looking for a LB.

I do think there are enough good offensive linemen in the draft where I could see them going defense with the first pick then use 2 second round picks at offensive line.

Maybe the Vikings have to kick in a later round pick like a 4th or 5th to get a 2nd for Waynes.

 
While Suh can pass rush he is more of a nose tackle than an under tackle. So Suh would be bringing something similar to Linval Joseph. It would be very hard to run against these guys.

Not sure if the Vikings have the money for Richardson or Suh. I am guessing Suh will cost more although Richardson isn't cheap either.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Remmers and Sendejo gone.

Hope this means they'll get serious at the positions.
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Good.

That is about $10 million saved towards the cap. The Vikings had $5 going into this, so now at $15.

Some RFA such as Harris and Hill will take up some of that cap space.

The Vikings have not asked Rudolph to restructure. They could save another $7 million there but they don't seem like they will.

 
Biabreakable said:
Barr to sign with the Jets.

Richardson to sign with Cleveland.

The Vikings signed Shamar Stephen to a 3 year contract.

Underwhelming developments.
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To be honest I think this was expected. In reality the Vikings don't have the cap room to sign any of the more sought out FAs without making significant moves, which would likely create more holes.

I really don't think free agency is the answer this year... to me the draft is more important. I'd really like to see Spielman trade down a few spots in the first round, maybe even twice, if the opportunity is there. You never know when a team like the Saints wants to move up and make a Davenport-type move, which is best case scenario, but even less glamorous trades would help. If he could just add some more picks in the 2nd-4th range, he could stock up on OL and at the same time find some potential replacements for the guys on D lost to FA.

 
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travdogg said:
5/67.5, so yeah, probably an overpay. I know a lot of Vikings fans were actually hoping he left.
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:doh:

If this is true, I am losing confidence that this front office understands what is needed to turn the tide (e.g. reallocating the glut of defensive spend to OL). Barr was overpaid last season IMHO, and he didn't make a meaningful impact on team success. There must be a lot more than layperson eyes tell for this to make sense. For a defensive Zen Master, Zimmer seems to be over-reliant on bank busters.  

 
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-arcK- said:
To be honest I think this was expected. In reality the Vikings don't have the cap room to sign any of the more sought out FAs without making significant moves, which would likely create more holes.

I really don't think free agency is the answer this year... to me the draft is more important. I'd really like to see Spielman trade down a few spots in the first round, maybe even twice, if the opportunity is there. You never know when a team like the Saints wants to move up and make a Davenport-type move, which is best case scenario, but even less glamorous trades would help. If he could just add some more picks in the 2nd-4th range, he could stock up on OL and at the same time find some potential replacements for the guys on D lost to FA.
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I think the offensive line talent is deep enough that having multiple 2nd round picks would be very good to have.

That is part of what makes the possible Wayne's or Rhodes trades interesting.

 
Re: Barr

That seems like entirely more money than I'm comfortable with. I was perfectly ok with letting him walk. I get that he's a solid overall player most of the time but he doesn't make enough impact as a pass rusher or big-play guy for that kind of cash.

 
Biabreakable said:
I think the offensive line talent is deep enough that having multiple 2nd round picks would be very good to have.

That is part of what makes the possible Wayne's or Rhodes trades interesting.
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Agreed. I don't look forward to losing either of those guys but if I had to choose I'd keep Rhodes. He's already been committed money, is still in his prime, and is locked up for a few years. People said he had a down year but I disagree. I think his previous year was so incredible it was impossible to repeat. He still shut people down statistically, just not at the same crazy low numbers.

Biabreakable said:
Zimmer likes Barr more than most of us do it seems.
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Yeah I guess he really relies on him for calls and getting the D situated. I'm not really upset he was re-signed; just concerned about the long term viability for the team. We know that when you have too many long-term contracts you can jack up your cap situation, but to be fair the Vikings contract expert seems to be able to work his magic again and again.

 
I saw something that minutes after the Barr signing that supposedly the Vikings are saying Griffen needs to restructure or he’s going to be cut. I know there’s been rumblings about this for awhile but now sounds like a for sure thing that’s going to happen. 

 
BigJim® said:
I like Zimmer, I really do. That said, both he and Spielman should absolutely pay the piper if they don't solve OL due to decisions like this.
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I just don't think that there was any OL in free agency worth the money they were demanding.  Hopefully this means nothing but OL in the draft.

Of course, Zim is probably eyeing about 3 CBs as we type.

 
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BigJim® said:
I like Zimmer, I really do. That said, both he and Spielman should absolutely pay the piper if they don't solve OL due to decisions like this.
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Hopefully Kubiak has sway here. As I've said before I dont think they are good at scouting linemen and they need a better evaluator for that.

Hopefully that's Kubiak.

Their philosophical perspective on players relative value still in play here though.

 
whole-show said:
I saw something that minutes after the Barr signing that supposedly the Vikings are saying Griffen needs to restructure or he’s going to be cut. I know there’s been rumblings about this for awhile but now sounds like a for sure thing that’s going to happen. 
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Yeah Zimmer was lying about that.

I hope they keep Griffen. He may be their best under tackle right now.

 
BigJim® said:
:doh:

If this is true, I am losing confidence that this front office understands what is needed to turn the tide (e.g. reallocating the glut of defensive spend to OL). Barr was overpaid last season IMHO, and he didn't make a meaningful impact on team success. There must be a lot more than layperson eyes tell for this to make sense. For a defensive Zen Master, Zimmer seems to be over-reliant on bank busters.  
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To be fair Jim, they simply weren't going to be able to solve the OL issue via spending. The NFL as a whole has a shortage of quality o-lineman and average guys are getting way overpaid in free agency. The only way the OL problem is going to resolved is through the draft. Now if they hit on some drafted OL and 4 or 5 years from now have to make decisions on who to extend, that's when I hope whoever is in charge realizes that you're going to have to balance the offense and defense spending.

 
Scott Tenorman said:
I just don't think that there was anyone OL in free agency worth the money they were demanding.  Hopefully this means nothing but OL in the draft.
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I'm definitely not into overpaying the Remmers/Reiff from this FA class. OTOH, decisions like this have ongoing implications when/if a trade or viable signing becomes possible. I don't know... my mind keeps coming back to a sense that a defensive guru should be able to find bargain athletes who have the tools to succeed in his scheme. Any coach should be able to put a decent defense on the field shelling out $10M/yr contracts. Even with these guys we're overpaying, the Vikings did not field a dominant defense in 2018. 

 
Biabreakable said:
Yeah Zimmer was lying about that.

I hope they keep Griffen. He may be their best under tackle right now.
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This is possibly not PC, but I worry about what sorts of medications he needs to control his psychological issues. He did not seem like the same dynamic player when he came back last season.

 
BigJim® said:
This is possibly not PC, but I worry about what sorts of medications he needs to control his psychological issues. He did not seem like the same dynamic player when he came back last season.
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I agree that is a risk.

He has always had some sort of issue. Why he was a 4th round pick.

I also agree he did not play as well after returning Last season.

The Vikings have Shamar Stephen at under tackle right now though. I'm certain Griffen is better than him in that role.

 
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Biabreakable said:
I'm certain Griffen is better than him in that role.
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I agree, if he is the same guy. Seemed sort of invisible to me at the end of the season, I assume on meds. Some of these meds moderate high highs/low lows, which you'd have to think can impact a player who relies on high energy.

 
Bringing back Barr is the right move for Vikings

Barr was never an elite cover linebacker by Pro Football Focus grading standards, but one area of coverage in which he stood out was against opposing running backs. When the Vikings ranked No. 1 in yards and points in 2017, they allowed the fewest yards per game through the air to opposing running backs according to Football Outsiders. That number slipped last year, but the Vikings still gave up the 11th fewest receptions to RBs per game
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I rather have the compensatory pick in 2020 than Barr.  He was playing for a contract last year and wasn't that good.  I wonder how he going to play now that he got his money.

 
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