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*** Minnesota Vikings: OFFICIAL

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So now there is a report that even though the Vikings put the tag on Harris that they have told teams they would take a mid to late round pick for Harris. 
 

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I think TE Irv Smith is gonna feast this year if the OC knows how to use a TE.

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Should expect a good comp pick in 2021, right?

I’m pretty meh on the CB turnover. If all this system needs is guys who don’t know where the ball is and flail arms when they sense the ball is in the air, it should be a skillset they can fill cheaper than Wayne’s/Rhodes.

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7 hours ago, whole-show said:

So now there is a report that even though the Vikings put the tag on Harris that they have told teams they would take a mid to late round pick for Harris. 
 

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Read the Browns have interest and that Vikings might be asking for 2nd or 3rd rounder.

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Free agency roundup: Trae Waynes agrees to deal with Bengals; Anthony Harris headed to Cleveland?

Vikings reportedly seeking a 2nd round pick for Harris. As Judd points out they must want the pick this year instead of next year, where they would likely get a high comp pick for letting Harris go.

I was happily surprised when the Vikings tagged Harris, thinking that meant they would keep him, that was unexpected based on Zimmers comments about the relative value of players at the safety position. I am less enthused about them francising him to trade him. I suppose a 3rd round pick this year is worth more than a comp pick next year. I don't like any bad blood it might incur from the locker room though and if it were me I would try to keep Harris and maintain the best safety duo in the NFL. 

They are getting a bit long in the tooth though and for budget reasons as well, perhaps the Vikings want to get younger there as they will need to be developing replacements anyways, when the drop in performance comes, it comes quickly as we saw with Xavier Rhodes last season.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, BigJim® said:

Should expect a good comp pick in 2021, right?

As long as Waynes starts most of the games for the Bengals I think they should be looking at a similar comp pick as they got for Richardson, a 3rd rounder. If Harris signed a similarly high contract, then we could expect similar comp pick for him as well. All of this depends on if the Vikings sign any free agents themselves however. They don't have the money to do that, but if they did sign someone to similarly big contract as Waynes and that player starts similar number of games for the Vikings, then it could be a wash.

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I’m pretty meh on the CB turnover. If all this system needs is guys who don’t know where the ball is and flail arms when they sense the ball is in the air, it should be a skillset they can fill cheaper than Wayne’s/Rhodes.

Yeah Waynes is one of the reasons I like how Harris plays the ball all the time. Waynes never does that, he just plays the receiver. That catch by Sutton last year with Waynes draped all over him really stands out to me. Any kind of play on the ball by Waynes and that doesn't happen. I would call it fluke play if Waynes were not so consistent with how he does not play the ball.

eta - Waynes is a great tackler and that may be missed.

Edited by Biabreakable

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When the Vikings suck this year people will blame it on Cousins' contract when it's really due to crappy drafting.

Since 2011, here are their first rounders:
Ponder
Kalil
Sharif Floyd
Rhodes
Barr
Waynes
Treadwell
Hughes
Bradbury

When do we start talking about moving on from Spielman?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Andy Dufresne said:

When the Vikings suck this year people will blame it on Cousins' contract when it's really due to crappy drafting.

Since 2011, here are their first rounders:
Ponder
Kalil
Sharif Floyd
Rhodes
Barr
Waynes
Treadwell
Hughes
Bradbury

When do we start talking about moving on from Spielman?

Cordarrell Patterson also. 

ETA: I think Spielman has been ok when looking at all rounds, but the reason I don't think he is suited for the job is his (reported, and track-record proven) view on value of OL. You can't successfully draft WR/QB/RB/TE with that mentality, and I'd say can't expect to be among NFL elites. It's the straw that stirs and a GM has to understand that.

Edited by BigJim®

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1 hour ago, FunkyPlutos said:

Michael Pierce...that's what I am hearing.

3 years, 27M

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Javon Kearse to the Lions.

The Vikings might want to hang on to Harris but them publicly shopping him can't be good for their relationship.

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4 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Why would you not trade for Brandin Cook's?

Because he is very expensive?

How do they afford him?

Otherwise it looks like a perfect fit.

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4 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

Because he is very expensive?

How do they afford him?

Otherwise it looks like a perfect fit.

Details...

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Like the Pierce move a lot. He's a decent upgrade from Linval, and was only slightly more expensive. 

He's an elite run defender, like possibly the best in the NFL. He offers little as a pass rusher, but they know that going in. If he were a good pass rusher, he's getting 4-5 million more per year.

Other than the Ham move, I've really liked the Vikings offseason. I don't really think this is a rebuilding team, more of a retooling. They've been fixing past errors. They have trimmed a lot of fat, without losing anyone vital, other than maybe Diggs, whom they got a nice return on.

 

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1 minute ago, travdogg said:

Like the Pierce move a lot. He's a decent upgrade from Linval, and was only slightly more expensive. 

He's an elite run defender, like possibly the best in the NFL. He offers little as a pass rusher, but they know that going in. If he were a good pass rusher, he's getting 4-5 million more per year.

Other than the Ham move, I've really liked the Vikings offseason. I don't really think this is a rebuilding team, more of a retooling. They've been fixing past errors. They have trimmed a lot of fat, without losing anyone vital, other than maybe Diggs, whom they got a nice return on.

 

Zimmer and Spielman are on the hot seat. They need to win now.

The salary cap situation and Diggs trade (which the Vikings did not want to do but were forced to by Diggs) however is forcing them to rebuild. 

The Vikings just got blown off the ball against the 49ers, so I understand the need for Pierce to help shore that up (Linval failed).

The addition of Capers does suggest the Vikings may be looking at using more uneven fronts, if they do a strong NT helps facilitate that.

I was listening to Eric Eager from pff and he was talking about a study he did which found that defense improve year over year by cuangingvtheir scheme and the Vikings defense has to change because of all the players they have lost there.

Shamar Stephen was one of the worst DT in the NFL last year. He needs to be replaced too.

 

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1 minute ago, Biabreakable said:

Zimmer and Spielman are on the hot seat. They need to win now.

The salary cap situation and Diggs trade (which the Vikings did not want to do but were forced to by Diggs) however is forcing them to rebuild. 

The Vikings just got blown off the ball against the 49ers, so I understand the need for Pierce to help shore that up (Linval failed).

The addition of Capers does suggest the Vikings may be looking at using more uneven fronts, if they do a strong NT helps facilitate that.

I was listening to Eric Eager from pff and he was talking about a study he did which found that defense improve year over year by cuangingvtheir scheme and the Vikings defense has to change because of all the players they have lost there.

Shamar Stephen was one of the worst DT in the NFL last year. He needs to be replaced too.

 

Regarding the bolded, I have wondered if Barr might see more edge rusher work with Griffin gone. Pass rushing is the best part of Barr's game in my opinion, and they often do him a disservice by not taking greater advantage of it, and instead asking him to cover, which is arguably his greatest weakness.

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1 minute ago, travdogg said:

Regarding the bolded, I have wondered if Barr might see more edge rusher work with Griffin gone. Pass rushing is the best part of Barr's game in my opinion, and they often do him a disservice by not taking greater advantage of it, and instead asking him to cover, which is arguably his greatest weakness.

This has been something that gets talked about every year.

If Barr made more of an impact as a pass rusher, it would justify his contract more.

Maybe this year that actually happens. 

If they do use some 3'4 fronts, I expect it to be only a small number of their plays. I expect the defense to still be primarily a 4-3 but I do think Zimmer has plans to change things up and Capers will have some input on ways to do that. Zimmer has used 3-4 at times with the Bengals. If they do it likely would only be 10% of their snaps or something, but even that may be enough of a wrinkle to help the defense keep opposing teams guessing.

If it takes Stephen off the field it seems like a win to me.

I am interested in Maliek Collins from the Cowboys to replace Stephen, but the Vikings likely can't afford him, if they are interested I don't know.

From what I have seen f Barr as a pass rusher is he gets blocked too easily. So I am not sure I would agree with that being his best ability. While Barr has been beaten in coverage quite a few times, he is actually really good at that. TE do not do very well against the Vikings and Barr is part of why that is.

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According to Spotrac, after everything that's been done so far....  including holding money expected for the draft slots we currently have.... the Vikings have just south of $9M in cap space.  Given that the $11M that Harris is taking is likely gone according to reports, that gives us nearly $20M to make an impact with elsewhere.  

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4 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Why would you not trade for Brandin Cook's?

He's had a lot of concussions/head injuries the last few seasons, hasn't he?

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5 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Why would you not trade for Brandin Cook's?

If they had any money, I’d like to see them make an offer to Robby Anderson. 

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5 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Why would you not trade for Brandin Cook's?

They now have a ton of draft capitol in an unprecedented WR draft. My guess is Diggs will be replaced with a rookie or two.

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Just now, Heatman said:

They now have a ton of draft capitol in an unprecedented WR draft. My guess is Diggs will be replaced with a rookie or two.

True but they need a nearly compete defensive backfield, interior defensive line, and a couple guards. If a talent like Cooks could be had for say a third, and that's likely the highest it'd be, then they're free to use that draft capitol for those other positions.

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6 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Mackenzie Alexander to the Bengals. Good riddance.

Not trying to start a big argument here, but curious why you say that... He seemed to be solid last year as the nickel corner. While Rhodes was getting burnt toasted seemingly every other play, I don't recall many times where the slot receiver tore Alexander up.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, -arcK- said:

Not trying to start a big argument here, but curious why you say that... He seemed to be solid last year as the nickel corner. While Rhodes was getting burnt toasted seemingly every other play, I don't recall many times where the slot receiver tore Alexander up.

I just don't think he's very good. Being better than Rhodes isn't something to hang your hat on.

Edited by Andy Dufresne

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4 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

I just don't think he's very good. Being better than Rhodes isn't something to hang your hat on.

Well I was only making the comparison because it was obvious how bad Rhodes was... but did it seem to you like Alexander was getting beat like crazy? From what I read, PFF had rated him in the upper half of nickel corners the past couple of years. And the eyeball test told me that although he wasn't one of the best on our D, he certainly wasn't one of the big problems. The way you reacted to him signing with the Bengals made it seem like you thought he was a huge liability, and I'd argue there were other spots on D I was much more concerned with.

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21 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

True but they need a nearly compete defensive backfield, interior defensive line, and a couple guards. If a talent like Cooks could be had for say a third, and that's likely the highest it'd be, then they're free to use that draft capitol for those other positions.

Might as well see what Perriman would cost if he's really flipped the switch. Then they save all of their draft picks.

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24 minutes ago, -arcK- said:

Well I was only making the comparison because it was obvious how bad Rhodes was... but did it seem to you like Alexander was getting beat like crazy? From what I read, PFF had rated him in the upper half of nickel corners the past couple of years. And the eyeball test told me that although he wasn't one of the best on our D, he certainly wasn't one of the big problems. The way you reacted to him signing with the Bengals made it seem like you thought he was a huge liability, and I'd argue there were other spots on D I was much more concerned with.

He was constantly out of position.

He's rated highly as a tackler because he always had to tackle the guy that had just made the catch.

His awareness is sub par.

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8 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

He was constantly out of position.

He's rated highly as a tackler because he always had to tackle the guy that had just made the catch.

His awareness is sub par.

Well, I'm certain there's one thing we can both agree on... regardless of what we thought of the guys who are gone, we sure do need a bunch of corners now!

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I think Andy presented a few stir the pot type posts recently. Alexander good enough to start and start outside like he wants, but he resisted coaching to play inside. This would have been his chance to move up the depth chart, I dont think he and the coaches wanted that after the bad blood though.

I do think Alexander played better than Andy gives him credit for, but the Vikings replaced him with Sendejo without missing him much too.

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6 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

I think Andy presented a few stir the pot type posts recently. Alexander good enough to start and start outside like he wants, but he resisted coaching to play inside. This would have been his chance to move up the depth chart, I dont think he and the coaches wanted that after the bad blood though.

I do think Alexander played better than Andy gives him credit for, but the Vikings replaced him with Sendejo without missing him much too.

Well Andy is a passionate fan, just like the rest of us. It would be nice to have studs everywhere, but there are going to be spots where you have average ok guys, and I think that's what Alexander was. I think it just hurts to lose him because now that's so many dang CB spots to fill this offseason. Would have been nice to at least keep him, so we'd only have to fill the outside guys. However, I wouldn't support keeping him at an inflated price (not sure what the Bengals gave him?)...

But hey, it is what it is. We were pretty much expecting this situation.

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Yeah it's all under the bridge now.

I do think the plan was for him to take over at this point.

This is why I wish they would keep Harris. He is worth the price and at least the corners will have help.

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On 3/20/2020 at 12:16 AM, Biabreakable said:

Alexander got a 1 year deal for $4 million from the Bengals.

Pretty weak market for him.

Its a pretty small sum. I think you are in trouble if Alexander is a top-2 CB on your team, but then again, I think he and Waynes were similar caliber players(albeit entirely different types) and he's getting 3 times that much. 

Right now the starters are what, Holton Hill, Mike Hughes and maybe Marcus Sherels(as he seems to always find his way back) in the slot? That sounds pretty bad, but honestly, I'm not sure its worse than Rhodes, Waynes, Alexander. 

2 FA's I'd be interested in(I know the cap is tight but these guys likely aren't that expensive, and don't effect the comp pick formula) are Nickell Robey-Coleman(arguably the league's best slot CB) and Prince Amukamara, who as a Bears fan, I was very sorry to see go, and thought he was arguably the team's best DB.

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Zulgad: No laughing matter: Vikings’ moves create confusion, not confidence

I think Zulgad may be wrong about the savings the Vikings got from cutting Josh kline, as I read somewhere they got additional $2 million savings by cutting him before a specific date. The details of these contracts that even journalists don't really know. I would agree he wasn't as bad as Elflien though. That doesn't mean he was good.

Really I think the main problem is that they brought back Barr and Rudolph last season, when they should have been let go.

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2 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

Zulgad: No laughing matter: Vikings’ moves create confusion, not confidence

I think Zulgad may be wrong about the savings the Vikings got from cutting Josh kline, as I read somewhere they got additional $2 million savings by cutting him before a specific date. The details of these contracts that even journalists don't really know. I would agree he wasn't as bad as Elflien though. That doesn't mean he was good.

Really I think the main problem is that they brought back Barr and Rudolph last season, when they should have been let go.

For sure. 

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Quinton Dunbar up the Seahawks for a 5th?

What, he doesn't fit the Vikings scheme? His $3.4m contact was too much?

Spielman had the day off?

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Hoping they can package their two first rounders to get up into the teens and get a good Offensive Lineman...maybe get a 2nd rounder back in the deal and go CB and WR in the 2nd round.

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What do you guys think of Van Jefferson as a fall back or additional option at WR if he is there in the 3rd round?

Any other late WR (outside the top 12) who you think would be good?

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Antonio Gandy-Golden Liberty

Gabriel Davis UCF

Isaiah Coulter Rhode Island

Lynn Bowden Kentucky

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58 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Antonio Gandy-Golden Liberty

Gabriel Davis UCF

Isaiah Coulter Rhode Island

Lynn Bowden Kentucky

I haven't watched Coulter.

I did watch these other guys and they dont seem ready.

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3 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

I haven't watched Coulter.

I did watch these other guys and they dont seem ready.

Neither is Van Jefferson.

(Un)Fortunately they're not going to need to be since the Bikes are going to be bad with or without a 3rd round WR contributing.

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