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*** Minnesota Vikings: OFFICIAL

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Halftime and Zimmer better make some changes quick on D. Bend, then break later isn't going to win many games..

Doesn't help that Kirk still hasn't learned to NOT throw behind a receiver when they are heading to the sideline.. :mellow:

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Zimmer's philosophy is not working.  He has to go.

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No idea if it was GM or coach.. But this decision to go all in on young CB's is NOT looking good so far.

Could be a long season for Vikings fans if this is what we get to look forward to all year. :kicksrock:

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14 minutes ago, Hov34 said:

Zimmer's philosophy is not working.  He has to go.

He just got an extension. Not going anywhere.

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2 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:
16 minutes ago, Hov34 said:

Zimmer's philosophy is not working.  He has to go.

He just got an extension. Not going anywhere.

Well, get used to 7-9 or 9-7 for the next few years. 

 

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VERY Ugly start.. Going young at CB's and expecting them to stick one-on-one with top end WR's like Devante was a horrid decision.

Confidence in the "starters" is one thing.. But I didn't see the normal Zimmer adjustments.. Going "Tough Love" in the NFL only leads to loses. :yucky:

 

Edited by snogger

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Not having Hunter is huge...can't get pressure up front and that puts those young corners in a bad spot. Will be better when/if Hunter comes back.

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Awful.  No idea why you don’t bracket Adams and make one of their other mediocre receiving options beat you.  It felt like Rodgers and Adams were out there all ho hum practicing their craft.

Also can’t stand our archaic offense.

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:goodposting:

I thought they were understanding the modern NFL when they weren't giving Dalvin his extension. Then they ponied up.

You have to effectively run the ball, true, but "ground and pound mixed with a stout defense" just isn't how things work anymore. Especially when the defense isn't stout. 

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1 hour ago, SayWhat? said:

Awful.  No idea why you don’t bracket Adams and make one of their other mediocre receiving options beat you.  It felt like Rodgers and Adams were out there all ho hum practicing their craft.

Also can’t stand our archaic offense.

The first drive was very good..  Mix of runs and Cousins rolling out, which has always been his strength....so I thought they had finally learned that and the play calling had changed..
But nope, as the game went on, very few called roil-outs... more stand in the pocket and get creamed behind a "shaky" OL at best  :wall: 

And yea, going out there with the oldest CB being 24 and expecting them to cover Adams one-on-one was dumb.
Zimmer is usually good at making adjustments. But instead seemed to rely on the "Tough love, they will learn" thinking.. 4 TD's later.. oops, my bad. 

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3 hours ago, SayWhat? said:

Awful.  No idea why you don’t bracket Adams and make one of their other mediocre receiving options beat you.  It felt like Rodgers and Adams were out there all ho hum practicing their craft.

Also can’t stand our archaic offense.

Packers fan here you're being generous calling the other Packers WR's mediocre.  That "coverage" on Adams was terrible.  Another huge game plan flaw was the Packers were awful covering TE's last year, it was brutal.  How Irv Smith wasn't more involved is crazy to me.  1 target?  You guys will be fine assuming Hunter comes back full strength. 

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Zimmer refuses to say anything of substance with the press. Pat Elflien placed on IR with a thumb injury that he wouldnt confirm. The first person he talks about as far as replacing Elflien at right guard is Dru Samia then Cleveland and he also mentions Jonsey (Brett Jones) who has been added back to the 53 man roster. The reporter didn't lead Zimmer on the question about guard depth, so that is about as good as its going to get as far as what they are planning to do.

In regards to Samia Zimmer says he had to learn to play under control instead of full speed all the time.

The Vikings will have their hands full with Buckner and company.

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On 9/13/2020 at 2:14 PM, Hov34 said:

Zimmer's philosophy is not working.  He has to go.

 

:coffee:

 

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The off season moves are coming back to haunt this team.. Did nothing to improve the OL.. Decided to go with all Young at CB... Had A good signing of Michael Pierce only to have him opt out due to Covid and then lose Hunter to injury.

Oh yea, might have been a headache at times, but they will miss Diggs until the Young Wr's can take pressure off Theilen...

Add in Kirk looking like a rookie and this is looking to be a long.... LONG... Season.. :kicksrock:

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51 minutes ago, snogger said:

The off season moves are coming back to haunt this team.. Did nothing to improve the OL.. Decided to go with all Young at CB... Had A good signing of Michael Pierce only to have him opt out due to Covid and then lose Hunter to injury.

Oh yea, might have been a headache at times, but they will miss Diggs until the Young Wr's can take pressure off Theilen...

Add in Kirk looking like a rookie and this is looking to be a long.... LONG... Season.. :kicksrock:

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but what are they supposed to do with the OL? Above average offensive lineman are just as difficult to land as franchise quarterbacks. If you don’t have a top 10 pick, you are not getting a stud offensive lineman. Considering they have no cap space, if there were any quality available, they wouldn’t of been able to sign them anyways.

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I can’t even watch. How did they get so bad, so fast? Nothing is working

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38 minutes ago, sports_fan said:

I can’t even watch. How did they get so bad, so fast? Nothing is working

JMHO, it’s not sudden. If you have the stomach for it, rewatch 2019 vs Bears/Green Bay/49ers. This has been and will be what happens when the Vikes play teams with stronger lines. Problem is. as other teams restock lines while the Vikes idle, the pool of teams they can compete against is shrinking.

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10 hours ago, Cjw_55106 said:

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but what are they supposed to do with the OL? Above average offensive lineman are just as difficult to land as franchise quarterbacks. If you don’t have a top 10 pick, you are not getting a stud offensive lineman. Considering they have no cap space, if there were any quality available, they wouldn’t of been able to sign them anyways.

They found money to sign the new DE so they could have found it for OL.

Or .. they had two 1st round picks.. Could have packaged those to move up. Anything to try and improve it... Instead they decided what we had was "good enough".. 

Not sure why they are so insistent on having Cousins sit in the pocket and get pummeled when he has proven he can throw on the run. :confused: 

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Just wondering whether play calling has something to do with it.  A lot of teams establish the pass to set up the run.   Not the Vikes.

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22 minutes ago, shadrap said:

Just wondering whether play calling has something to do with it.  A lot of teams establish the pass to set up the run.   Not the Vikes.

This is on Zimmer.  He is stuck in the 90s style of play and we just don't have the personell to play like that.  He want's to play old school ball control ground and pound and then play good defense.  He wants to win 17 - 13.  It's not possible with one of the worst OL in the NFL, yet every week it's the same bull####.  He is a dinosaur and either refuses to or can't change. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fmq9JvqKFY

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19 minutes ago, Hov34 said:

This is on Zimmer.  He is stuck in the 90s style of play and we just don't have the personell to play like that.  He want's to play old school ball control ground and pound and then play good defense.  He wants to win 17 - 13.  It's not possible with one of the worst OL in the NFL, yet every week it's the same bull####.  He is a dinosaur and either refuses to or can't change. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fmq9JvqKFY

Thanks for your input.  I'm a ND guy and a Vikes fan from forever as are most of N Dakotans.  This is how we make it through the winter.  Going to be a long winter the way the Vikes are playing.

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33 minutes ago, Hov34 said:
58 minutes ago, shadrap said:

Just wondering whether play calling has something to do with it.  A lot of teams establish the pass to set up the run.   Not the Vikes.

This is on Zimmer.  He is stuck in the 90s style of play and we just don't have the personell to play like that.  He want's to play old school ball control ground and pound and then play good defense.  He wants to win 17 - 13.  It's not possible with one of the worst OL in the NFL, yet every week it's the same bull####.  He is a dinosaur and either refuses to or can't change. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fmq9JvqKFY

Zimmer handed off all Offensive play calling to Kubiac so I'd say it is all on him, not Zimmer, for the failures on the Offense.
As I mentioned above, I have no idea why they aren't playing to Cousin's strength, aka Play action and roll-outs.. Instead of leaving him standing behind a weak OL and getting pummeled game in and game out. 

The Blame for Zimmer, IMO, is that he has always had that "Bend don't break" philosophy from the 20 to 20... 
Teams have figured that out and are willing to take the 4 to 6 yards on most plays, giving them a HUGE Ball control advantage.

Not to mention his CB's are young and inexperienced, so he should be designing different Blitz's/pressure with the LB's until the CB's learn. Instead he seems to be coaching with the "Tough Love" Philosophy and thus it is going to be a LONG season until they learn.. 

Should have seen the writing on the wall with Theilen and then Young at WR, an OL that makes Swiss Cheese look whole, and the young Defensive Back field that this had a "Rebuilding year" feeling to it.  :kicksrock: 

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Anthony Barr out for the year - torn pectoral. ☠️  📉

Edited by Andy Dufresne

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I know we're only 2 games in, but I just can't find any silver linings in this squad that lead me to believe they'll turn things around. Will be nice to get Hunter back, but there's just so many weaknesses everywhere that I don't see him making up for it. And that's just on defense.

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Stole this from reddit, but it sums up how I feel about Zimmer.
 

Quote

 

Over our last two (full) seasons, we are 15-1-1 against teams who finished the season below .500.

One group of fans is happy with this record. Beating the teams we should beat indicates Zimmer is a good coach, and it keeps us in the playoff hunt consistently.

But... Over our last two seasons, we are 1-2 against teams who finished at .500, and 3-10 against teams who finished above .500.

Another group of fans is unhappy with this record because even though we can make the playoffs, we've been outmatched once we get there.

Our winning percentage against winning teams over the two seasons leading up to our playoff game against New Orleans was .200. That implied we had a 0.16% (1 in 625) chance of winning the Super bowl, even after making the playoffs.

We win a lot of games, which some fans like. We are not true contenders, which some fans hate.

 

Count me in fans that hate.

 

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8 hours ago, shadrap said:

Thanks for your input.  I'm a ND guy and a Vikes fan from forever as are most of N Dakotans.  This is how we make it through the winter.  Going to be a long winter the way the Vikes are playing.

Welcome to our thread of sorrow.

Out of curiosity are you a Wentz fan? I know Arif Hasan (also from ND) hates Wentz.

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1 hour ago, Hov34 said:

Stole this from reddit, but it sums up how I feel about Zimmer.
 

Count me in fans that hate.

 

Probably a more drastic split than usual, but it’s hard to beat the better teams, obviously. I’m kind of indifferent on Zimmer, the bigger issue is we overpaid a bunch of halfway decent players and can’t really get better. The Indy game was just like the SF playoff game- destroyed on both lines and never in the game. 0-2 is one thing, but the way they lost is pretty disheartening. I’m not sure how they solve it without starting over but it’s hard to see them winning more than a few games this year, in my opinion.....

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I think the Vikings will play better than they have because its hard for me to see them playing much worse.

The corners should improve with experience and hopefully Hunter comes back which will really help a lot. Hunter is one of the Vikings best players against the run and pass.

There definitely is a domino effect happening right now as without Linval or Pierce or someone forcing double teams it makes it too easy to block them. Hunter and Griffen good against the run. Trey Waynes and Xavier Rhodes maybe not the best cover corners but they were very good against the run.

All of these edge defenders are much worse against the run than the players they replaced right now. If you cant stop the run then you cant stop much else either. 

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13 hours ago, Biabreakable said:

Welcome to our thread of sorrow.

Out of curiosity are you a Wentz fan? I know Arif Hasan (also from ND) hates Wentz.

Yea, he is a really good guy from all reports.  He comes back every summer to fish for walleye in Lake Sakakawea.  He also does a small football camp for kids.

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Sort of depressing to see the Raiders lose 3/5 of its OL (which is highest paid in NFL) and continue to get good run block push and pass protection, with backups, against the Saints DL. Hell, I'd settle for the Raiders backups at this point.

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35 minutes ago, BigJim® said:

Sort of depressing to see the Raiders lose 3/5 of its OL (which is highest paid in NFL) and continue to get good run block push and pass protection, with backups, against the Saints DL. Hell, I'd settle for the Raiders backups at this point.

Well, on the grass is only greener side, sure they made do with what they had and won the game, but let's not get carried away. The RBs only averaged 3.5 per carry. There were several times when runs got blown up in the backfield for a big loss. They also schemed to Carr's advantages to get the ball out of his hands quickly.

I think the real key here is, they had a solid game plan and stuck to it. They continued to run even when it wasn't working well. They utilized their backs and TEs in the passing game because their WRs are inexperienced rookies. Now those are things the Vikings could definitely learn from.

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That may very well be the most inept 2 minute drill I've ever seen.

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At least they gave us some entertainment today. I was expecting a blowout loss and didn’t plan on watching. I ended up tuning in for the 2nd half and saw some entertaining football for the first time this season 

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1 hour ago, sports_fan said:

At least they gave us some entertainment today. I was expecting a blowout loss and didn’t plan on watching. I ended up tuning in for the 2nd half and saw some entertaining football for the first time this season 

True. It was nice seeing Cook go off and Jefferson finally getting involved.

I know it's not fact, but I feel like Jefferson after one big game already has more career yards than Treadwell.

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1 hour ago, -arcK- said:

True. It was nice seeing Cook go off and Jefferson finally getting involved.

I know it's not fact, but I feel like Jefferson after one big game already has more career yards than Treadwell.

Treadwell has 701 career receiving yards. Jefferson could pretty easily surpass that in his rookie season.

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14 hours ago, -arcK- said:

That may very well be the most inept 2 minute drill I've ever seen.

Almost like they don't even practice for those moments.. 

I was one his biggest supporters when they brought him in, but Kubiak needs to go.

He continues to be blind to the fact that the OL is Swiss cheese. when he did pull his head out and called Play action or Roll-outs they had great success.. Then he'd return to 3 steps back and get Pummeled... Oh, that didn't work.. they got lucky.. 3 steps back .. :wall: 

But hey.. we have last place all to ourselves :bowtie: 

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13 hours ago, sports_fan said:

At least they gave us some entertainment today. I was expecting a blowout loss and didn’t plan on watching. I ended up tuning in for the 2nd half and saw some entertaining football for the first time this season 

It was the best game for them this year.. Then again look at what we are comparing it to ;)

But you just knew when the Titans were driving late in the 4th quarter it was over. 

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18 hours ago, -arcK- said:

That may very well be the most inept 2 minute drill I've ever seen.

Hopefully word doesn't get out that you only need 3 pass rushers against this line. 

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21 minutes ago, BigJim® said:

Hopefully word doesn't get out that you only need 3 pass rushers against this line. 

The word has been out for some time now.

This year's squad has the same problems that last year's did (and the one that was REALLY exposed in the playoff loss) - they're terribly soft up the middle of both lines and not athletic/fast enough (except for Harrison Smith) in the defensive backfield. 

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3 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

The word has been out for some time now.

This year's squad has the same problems that last year's did (and the one that was REALLY exposed in the playoff loss) - they're terribly soft up the middle of both lines and not athletic/fast enough (except for Harrison Smith) in the defensive backfield. 

Yup, just being snarky.

I'm skeptical that issues with our DBs are physical. I think it is just a dumb scheme/system that relies on immediate QB pressure, and the biggest reward is an incomplete pass that happens to hit a CB in the arm. If you don;t get immediate pressure, a CB just starts looking silly with no idea what is going on. You see Xavier Rhodes doing a pick 6 yesterday, and saw the same thing with Jaire Alexander jumping a couple routes after reading Brees' eyes. You'll never see that from a Vikes CB, because they are supposed to keep their eyes on the WR, and not the ball/QB. I looked at NFL reference and was unsurprised to see 1 INT was the most by any Vikes CB in 2019, and I think 2 was most in 2018. Almost all INTs from the Vikes come from safety. I hate the scheme, because a QB should be afraid of throwing a pick. It seems like a refinement to the Zimmer defense over the past 2 years, and its a bad one.

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1 hour ago, BigJim® said:

Yup, just being snarky.

I'm skeptical that issues with our DBs are physical. I think it is just a dumb scheme/system that relies on immediate QB pressure, and the biggest reward is an incomplete pass that happens to hit a CB in the arm. If you don;t get immediate pressure, a CB just starts looking silly with no idea what is going on. You see Xavier Rhodes doing a pick 6 yesterday, and saw the same thing with Jaire Alexander jumping a couple routes after reading Brees' eyes. You'll never see that from a Vikes CB, because they are supposed to keep their eyes on the WR, and not the ball/QB. I looked at NFL reference and was unsurprised to see 1 INT was the most by any Vikes CB in 2019, and I think 2 was most in 2018. Almost all INTs from the Vikes come from safety. I hate the scheme, because a QB should be afraid of throwing a pick. It seems like a refinement to the Zimmer defense over the past 2 years, and its a bad one.

If anyone thinks it's not scheme at this point, go watch the Colts.  Rhodes is playing like the best QB in the game.  He's rated #1 by PFF too.  I think Zimmer's time as a defensive guru is over.  He hasn't adapted to the modern game and if our D-line doesn't get pressure with 4(which we haven't all year so far) then our CBs are ####ed.

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I disagree with a lot of what many of you are saying.

Zimmer scheme is at fault now? The same scheme that has consistently produced defenses that were top 5 in many important categories. How did Zimmer manage to do that if he is clueless and the game has passed him by?

BS

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1 minute ago, Biabreakable said:

I disagree with a lot of what many of you are saying.

Zimmer scheme is at fault now? The same scheme that has consistently produced defenses that were top 5 in many important categories. How did Zimmer manage to do that if he is clueless and the game has passed him by?

BS

Noted, but I'll trust my eyes. I think his secondary scheme has morphed. I would have sworn it was well reported in 2018 that he added secondary wrinkles that could not be executed by players.

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