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Zay Jones, WR, Jacksonville (1 Viewer)

petekrum

Footballguy
Been on this guy for awhile but wanted to see how he graded out at the combine. Already knew he ran great routes and had good hands, but seeing him run in the 4.4's was an eye opener. I have him as my third or fourth WR right now.
 
Really nice athlete. Anyone watch him play yet? How would you describe him? Interesting that some who watched his film thought he was lacking speed. 

 
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Really nice athlete. Anyone watch him play yet? How would you describe him? Interesting that some who watched his film thought he was lacking speed. 
Agreed, I thought he would run in the mid 4.5s so his speed surprised me.

 
His bloodline alone (Robert Jones, Jeff Blake) is worth drafting early. Add in his abilities and speed and he's a pretty safe pick. Easily top 3 WR to me.

 
East Carolina WR Zay Jones tested as a 94.1-percentile SPARQ athlete at the NFL Combine.
He finished with the No. 2 SPARQ score among receivers. Jones surprisingly beat Taywan Taylor and Carlos Henderson in the 40-yard dash by clocking in at 4.46 seconds. In addition, Jones an 11-foot-plus broad jump that was near the top of the field and showed extremely well in position drills. He may have locked in a slot in the top half of Round 2.

 
 
Source: 3sigmaathlete.com 
Mar 6 - 6:44 PM

 
Really nice athlete. Anyone watch him play yet? How would you describe him? Interesting that some who watched his film thought he was lacking speed. 
I've watched a couple of games and this is what I saw:

South Carolina - Behind early here. Used a lot. Good comeback catch. Not particularly dynamic looking to my eyes. Looks overpowered as a blocker. Decent hands and willing to go over middle.  Looks like Just A Guy here but has some decent catches in this game with a notable drop or two. Looks kind of skinny to me and not dynamic. Didn't really do anything after the catch at all but looks to have a decent to good catch radius.

NC State - Really bad blocking on WR screens. Really not a solid blocker and gets blown up at line. His best route here is his 10 yd comeback and slant back across formation. He gets that little crossing route a lot in this offense.

I didn't see him play to that 4.45 timed speed in either of these games.  Need to watch more, but as of yet I am not completely sold.

 
Really nice athlete. Anyone watch him play yet? How would you describe him? Interesting that some who watched his film thought he was lacking speed. 
I was thoroughly unimpressed.  I did not see much route running, mostly hitches and stops.  He didn't play with any physicality and did not separate as you would expect someone with his tested athleticism to.  I thought he showed pretty good hands though.  He is not even top ten for me in spite of the impressive combine showing.

 
I was thoroughly unimpressed.  I did not see much route running, mostly hitches and stops.  He didn't play with any physicality and did not separate as you would expect someone with his tested athleticism to.  I thought he showed pretty good hands though.  He is not even top ten for me in spite of the impressive combine showing.
Yeah weird case here

 
I was thoroughly unimpressed.  I did not see much route running, mostly hitches and stops.  He didn't play with any physicality and did not separate as you would expect someone with his tested athleticism to.  I thought he showed pretty good hands though.  He is not even top ten for me in spite of the impressive combine showing.
Just to add to this, I didn't see him go out towards the ball and grab it very often if at all.  He runs some good routes and catches well but it's not a go to the ball type of catch which concerned me a little.  I also thought he wasn't very explosive when I watched him but his tests say otherwise.  I'll be re-watching him a little bit in the next couple of days.  

 
An NFL personnel executives suggests that East Carolina WR Zay Jones could be a surprise first-rounder in this year's NFL Draft.


"Zay Jones has crushed the postseason," he said. "He was one of the best players in Mobile (Senior Bowl) and he ran much faster than expected at the combine (4.45 40). He could sneak into the first round." It wasn't just that Jones ran faster than expected in Indy. He destroyed the athletic testing, finishing with the No. 2 SPARQ score among receivers. Jones' 11-foot-plus broad jump was near the top of the field.
 
Source: NFL.com

 
Watched NC State, South Carolina and Virginia Tech games. I don't know why anyone would talk about his blocking. Is he Julio out there mucking on DBs? No but he shows a willingness to block (and not just when the run is coming at him) and gets in the way enough. He had one or two missed blocks but whatever, he's a receiver. Plus, he runs nice picks to setup other guys.

He runs lots of hitches and come backs because the DBs are playing so far off. To that, he does do a good job stopping and coming back before the DB can get down to break up the pass. He has good shake at the line (but rarely sees press) to get into his crossing/drag route. It also seems he has excellent hands. He catches with proper technique on tight passes. Lots of guys will trap/body catch in these spots. He also had two nice contested catches against #31 of Virginia Tech. 

Definitely doesn't look like an explosive super athlete but he looks like a perfect #2 or slot. He's the guy that if you over adjust for Julio or sell out to stop the Zeke and the run, he's just going to eat all day long. 

 
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Pro Football Focus compared East Carolina WR Zay Jones to former Arizona Cardinals WR Anquan Boldin.

"While Jones may have clocked a faster 40 at the combine than Boldin, his playing speed looks similar to the veteran wide receiver," writes the PFF analysis team. To give a little context, Boldin managed just 4.71 seconds in the 40-yard dash at the 2003 Combine. Zay smoked that time, running a 4.45s sprint during testing in Indianapolis during the 2017 evaluation process. He is one of the draft's dark horses to be selected on Day 1.

 
 
Source: Pro Football Focus 
Apr 2 - 3:10 PM
 
Zones is growing on me.  There's an awful lot of "system" in his production, but at some point you just can't ignore the production any more.

 
Seems like a player who will be solid but underrated most of his career. Not overly splashy but he should have a nice career.

 
 I don't know why anyone would talk about his blocking.
When you can't block, you will not be a full time player and likely relegated to multiple receiver sets / passing down formations. This will limit his target opportunities. Believe it or not, WR's have to effectively block if they want playing time, just like RBs need to pass block to be 3 down players. If a running play, bubble screen, etc. breaks down because of his flaws, he will find himself buried on the depth chart until remedied.

 
When you can't block, you will not be a full time player and likely relegated to multiple receiver sets / passing down formations. This will limit his target opportunities. Believe it or not, WR's have to effectively block if they want playing time, just like RBs need to pass block to be 3 down players. If a running play, bubble screen, etc. breaks down because of his flaws, he will find himself buried on the depth chart until remedied.
Nah. If a guy refuses to block, as in a lack of even trying, he might lose favour with coaches but that's an effort or character thing. A great blocker gets an extra note on his report but that's about it. 

If we go with the idea that a WR is a "bad" blocker then he just runs clearing routes. If DBs start cheating the run, play action over the top. On a bubble screen the WR only needs to at attempt a block. Just stand in the way. And now we're down to discussing 2 plays a game in WR screens. Blocking should be at the bottom of the list of traits when making a depth chart. 

 
Nah. If a guy refuses to block, as in a lack of even trying, he might lose favour with coaches but that's an effort or character thing. A great blocker gets an extra note on his report but that's about it. 

If we go with the idea that a WR is a "bad" blocker then he just runs clearing routes. If DBs start cheating the run, play action over the top. On a bubble screen the WR only needs to at attempt a block. Just stand in the way. And now we're down to discussing 2 plays a game in WR screens. Blocking should be at the bottom of the list of traits when making a depth chart. 
I didn't say "refuses to block", but whatever.  In your earlier post you said, "I don't know why anyone would talk about his blocking", and I explained to you why blocking does actually matter when it comes to playing time.  If you don't think it matters, fine.  Good for you.

 
I didn't say "refuses to block", but whatever.  In your earlier post you said, "I don't know why anyone would talk about his blocking", and I explained to you why blocking does actually matter when it comes to playing time.  If you don't think it matters, fine.  Good for you.
Sorry I forgot about all the NFL WRs that have been benched because they weren't good enough blockers. Here I was thinking that catching, route running, release, QB/team chemistry, situational awareness, physical traits, offensive and defensive scheme understanding were all more important. 

I got a little salty there but I'm just trying to help. Honestly. It will give you ineffective rankings if you adjust them for blocking and it's an inefficient use of your time with film. It's not totally irrelevant but it's definitely close to the bottom of importance. For the sake of FF, it's even less important. 

 
Nah. If a guy refuses to block, as in a lack of even trying, he might lose favour with coaches but that's an effort or character thing. A great blocker gets an extra note on his report but that's about it. 

If we go with the idea that a WR is a "bad" blocker then he just runs clearing routes. If DBs start cheating the run, play action over the top. On a bubble screen the WR only needs to at attempt a block. Just stand in the way. And now we're down to discussing 2 plays a game in WR screens. Blocking should be at the bottom of the list of traits when making a depth chart. 
You're right. The best WRs play. If they can block that's just an added bonus.

 
Sorry I forgot about all the NFL WRs that have been benched because they weren't good enough blockers. Here I was thinking that catching, route running, release, QB/team chemistry, situational awareness, physical traits, offensive and defensive scheme understanding were all more important. 

I got a little salty there but I'm just trying to help. Honestly. It will give you ineffective rankings if you adjust them for blocking and it's an inefficient use of your time with film. It's not totally irrelevant but it's definitely close to the bottom of importance. For the sake of FF, it's even less important. 
Did I say those weren't important?  Let me check.... nope.  One of us in this conversation won 7 of 10 dynasty leagues last year, 3rd in another and cleared $6K and has been doing fantasy football since 1988.  But hey, you do your thing.

BTW, not that 6K is a big deal, because it's not as many of the guys I play in leagues with are in 30-50 leagues and routinely win a heck of a lot more than that.  Just saying, this isn't my first rodeo.....

 
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Did I say those weren't important?  Let me check.... nope.  One of us in this conversation won 7 of 10 dynasty leagues last year, 3rd in another and cleared $6K and has been doing fantasy football since 1988.  But hey, you do your thing.

BTW, not that 6K is a big deal, because it's not as many of the guys I play in leagues with are in 30-50 leagues and routinely win a heck of a lot more than that.  Just saying, this isn't my first rodeo.....
Well that's ten seconds of my life I'd like back.  

 
Argument lost, but award for most pompous D-bag goes to you, congrats.

I can get on board with this.  Probably a very solid receiver in the league, maybe a glory year or 2 thrown in there.  
So I guess we now know how internet arguments are won; some random guy blandly chimes in, which is then followed up with "likes". Just a suggestion, next time try it with some snark to really validate the ruling and encourage more "likes", then avoid comparing the player in question to someone totally unrelated, thereby mitigating credibility gap. HTH

No, but if you claim to have won 7 of 10 dynasty leagues it's probably time to upgrade your competition.
I'm sure your leagues are "super competitive" and nobody's leagues can ever be as tough as yours are or even begin to comprehend your level of expertise or the other guys in your amazing leagues.....  I admit this last year was a one off year and only being in two $250 buy-ins kept my payouts down.  How many $500 leagues are you in and do you have any openings? I may be looking to add a league this year. Post in the "looking for leagues" so I can check them out.

 
No, but if you claim to have won 7 of 10 dynasty leagues it's probably time to upgrade your competition.
I'm sure your leagues are "super competitive" and nobody's leagues can ever be as tough as yours are or even begin to comprehend your level of expertise or the other guys in your amazing leagues.....  I admit this last year was a one off year and only being in two $250 buy-ins kept my payouts down.  How many $500 leagues are you in and do you have any openings? I may be looking to add a league this year. Post in the "looking for leagues" so I can check them out.
And this would be why no one wins an argument by pointing to their FF record.

Thanks you both for the timely illustration!

 
So anyway....Zay Jones....2nd or 3rd rd in the NFL draft?  Is that his likely draft stock or am I underestimating his NFL value?
I think 3rd is where he is likely to go, but in this draft, it will come down to how teams see the WRs fitting their schemes. Outside of maybe Corey Davis and Mike Williams, there aren't any prototypical WR1 types until you get into the late round flyers. My guesspectations would be: 

Rd1: Davis, Williams, Ross

Rd2: Henderson, Godwin

Rd3: Jones, JJSS, Kupp, Taylor 

 
I think 3rd is where he is likely to go, but in this draft, it will come down to how teams see the WRs fitting their schemes. Outside of maybe Corey Davis and Mike Williams, there aren't any prototypical WR1 types until you get into the late round flyers. My guesspectations would be: 

Rd1: Davis, Williams, Ross

Rd2: Henderson, Godwin

Rd3: Jones, JJSS, Kupp, Taylor 
I don't think there's any way he gets out of the second.

 
I think 3rd is where he is likely to go, but in this draft, it will come down to how teams see the WRs fitting their schemes. Outside of maybe Corey Davis and Mike Williams, there aren't any prototypical WR1 types until you get into the late round flyers. My guesspectations would be: 

Rd1: Davis, Williams, Ross

Rd2: Henderson, Godwin

Rd3: Jones, JJSS, Kupp, Taylor 
This might be right, though I don't think Zay makes it past 2.58 (Seattle)

 
The first thing that stood out to me when considering Zones is that he had 208 targets in 12 games last season. That is 17.3 targets per game  :shock:

So before watching him I thought, huh what is going on here? Is this guy getting a lot of targets like a RB as well as a receiver? That is an amazing number of targets. To put this in perspective 208 targets is the most I have seen for any college player. Tajae Sharpe was close in 2015 with 190 targets. I have college WR data going back to 2005 and I do not see any college WR who has been targeted this many times. 

So then watching Zones play, I did see him used on a few jet sweeps and run action, so those could be considered some really easy targets. Another easy completion for the QB to Jones would be the multiple screen passes they use to get him and other receivers the ball.

These are not his most common route run however. The play I see most often is the 5 to 7 yard in-breaking route, usually with a slot clearing out the seam that he cuts underneath of. He has good timing with this play and I would call this his bread and butter route. I do not the see the reverse of it (the out route) as often, but what he does on the in breaking route should be pretty similar, just requires a more difficult throw from the QB to throw the out.

He is pretty fearless over the middle. The slant route over the middle is a play he executes pretty good as well. He will fight for the ball if it is contested and he is good at adjusting to passes that are thrown behind him.

Occasionally he will go deep as well and I think he does a good job here. He can win position and uses his body to block off the defender while tracking the deep ball. Good jumping ability and he attacks the ball in the air making it difficult to defend when he has positioning.

He has pretty good hands but I would not call that a strength compared to most receivers. I would say he is slightly above average in that area. He drops a few easy ones. The drops do not concern me, his catch rate was still solid 66% he just doesn't strike me as a guy who will catch anything, like some WR can do.

As others have mentioned, he looks slower than his timed speed at the combine. That does not mean he is too slow to win on deep routes, he isn't. Just watching him, he does not make face melting quick cuts on his breaks. I didn't see much quick twitch stuff from him at all. He plays under control for the most part, which is something that I like. He shows some awareness of timing and perhaps running his routes a bit slow, or with a pause at times because of that timing. At times he does look a bit awkward, but usually he seems to have pretty good balance and control of how he is running. There isn't a lot of suddenness with his breaks, at least not as much as I see with other WRs.

I am still watching WRs so I am not sure where I would rank him against the rest of the 2017 WR group yet. I liked him enough that I am asking myself if I would rather have Zones or Mike Williams. I do not like Mike Williams as much as he is being rated in mock drafts and so on though. Based on the WR I have watched so far, Zay Jones he is the guy I have liked the most after Corey Davis.

I don't really see him as a WR one in the NFL but I think he can be a good WR 2 and could be good in fantasy with similarly high opportunity.

I have heard too many comparisons of WRs to Anquan Boldin this year. I don't see the same strength from Zones as Boldin, but I can see some similarities as far as play style and the way they win.

 
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I think 3rd is where he is likely to go, but in this draft, it will come down to how teams see the WRs fitting their schemes. Outside of maybe Corey Davis and Mike Williams, there aren't any prototypical WR1 types until you get into the late round flyers. My guesspectations would be: 

Rd1: Davis, Williams, Ross

Rd2: Henderson, Godwin

Rd3: Jones, JJSS, Kupp, Taylor 
Are you sure Henderson shouldn't be swapped out with Curtis Samuel? I really like Godwin in the 2nd though. Is Samual sinking or are you just saying you don't think the type of player he is will be in as much demand as anticipated by most?

I think I might go...

Rd1: Williams, Ross, Davis

Rd2: Godwin, Samual, Jones

Rd3: JSS, Stewart

With a big group on that day-3 bubble(Dupre, Henderson, Kupp, Westbrook, Hansen, Taylor).

As you said, so much depends on system fit. I think a lot also depends if a team is willing to move up to get their guy on day-2 or sit patiently for one of a few guys to fall to them on day-3. 

 
Are you sure Henderson shouldn't be swapped out with Curtis Samuel? I really like Godwin in the 2nd though. Is Samual sinking or are you just saying you don't think the type of player he is will be in as much demand as anticipated by most?

I think I might go...

Rd1: Williams, Ross, Davis

Rd2: Godwin, Samual, Jones

Rd3: JSS, Stewart

With a big group on that day-3 bubble(Dupre, Henderson, Kupp, Westbrook, Hansen, Taylor).

As you said, so much depends on system fit. I think a lot also depends if a team is willing to move up to get their guy on day-2 or sit patiently for one of a few guys to fall to them on day-3. 
I think Samuel goes round 2 but I don't know what position he really is. I've seen some call him a pure slot WR, some say he should stay at RB. I just don't know.

 

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