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Dynasty & Redraft: RB Saquon Barkley, N.Y. Giants

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He will come back when he is healthy, thats the target I would think if its 4 weeks or 8. 

To be honest, I'm not a doctor and we have all hurt our ankles, but 8 weeks? On an ankle sprain? Man, not in the old days.

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This guy is never going to make it. Shys away from contact like Sean Alexander and the way he contorts his body will lend itself to unjury.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think hes is the best athlete in the NFL, I just don't see him playing more than a handful of injury riddled years. 

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50 minutes ago, kodycutter said:

After their week 11 bye is also a good target.

that's what I would guess too.   No reason to rush him back, high ankle sprains are obviously not good for a RB and its not like the giants were going to do anything this year anyways.

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47 minutes ago, STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:

This guy is never going to make it. Shys away from contact like Sean Alexander and the way he contorts his body will lend itself to unjury.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think hes is the best athlete in the NFL, I just don't see him playing more than a handful of injury riddled years. 

Seems like a really odd take to me, both the alexander comment and the contorts his body comment.   Neither make any sense to me or I don't agree with that at all.

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I had a high ankle sprain that took a long, long time. Never fully healed. They can be boderline career-ending. 

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21 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I had a high ankle sprain that took a long, long time. Never fully healed. They can be boderline career-ending. 

What was your career in?

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1 minute ago, tangfoot said:

What was your career in?

Sorry. Not mine. Mine was in college athletics. Nowhere near pro. People have had career-ending (nearly) ankle problems. Think Grant Hill.

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1 hour ago, mozzy84 said:

Seems like a really odd take to me, both the alexander comment and the contorts his body comment.   Neither make any sense to me or I don't agree with that at all.

Well lets discuss....

S. Alexander was a good back who didn't like putting his head down and churning for more yards. He was not a very good short yardage gainer. I see Barkley in a similar vein. Its just what I see when I watch him play. 

The contorts his body comment is that because Barkley is so athletic, the dude seemingly can change direction in mid-air. Barkley has been injured on two occasions that I'm aware of by leaving his feet and contorting his body and landed awkwardly. Last season vs the Cowboys on a TD run and yesterday.  

We don't have to agree. I put my flag in the ground. I don't think Barkley likes contact and I don't see him as an all-time back even though he does posses all-time talent. I still think he's probably the best athlete in the NFL and probably the closest thing to Barry Sanders so it isn't like I'm wearing my full Cowboys biased glasses.

I could be wrong and honestly, I hope I am. It would be fun to see him running all over the NFL for the next 10 years.

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had a nasty HASP in my mid 20's ..... knee to toes purple and swollen  ..... couldn't walk on it for about a week -- walk pain free after 2 weeks -- took about 5 weeks before I was a weekend warrior again (basketball/ football/ softball) still had a little bit of "weakness" .... 2 months i was fine ....... obviously not a pro athlete (but obviously not pro athlete rehab & care though either)

 

week 12 Barkley should be back to being a beast

(anything before then is a bonus)

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Interesting that they're saying 4-8 weeks when high ankle sprains are usually 4-6 weeks.  But the Giants have a week 11 bye which would be the 8th week.  Since the Giants aren't likely going to be fighting for the playoffs, a week 12 return is probably the most likely scenario.  No reason to rush your franchise player back for meaningless games.

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1 hour ago, rockaction said:

Sorry. Not mine. Mine was in college athletics. Nowhere near pro. People have had career-ending (nearly) ankle problems. Think Grant Hill.

A lot has changed since Grant Hill. 

Tex

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9 minutes ago, BigTex said:

A lot has changed since Grant Hill. 

Tex

Sure it has. And advancements allowed Grant Hill to play in the end. It's just that ankle injuries, not given enough time to heal, can have serious deleterious effects on one's career.

I highly doubt anybody wants to argue this.

Sometimes, trainers almost hope for a fracture so they can reset the bone. That's what I used to hear. I could be wrong about it being that extreme, but that this can linger, and if pushed, get worse, is largely not up for debate.   

Edited by rockaction
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1 hour ago, STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:

Well lets discuss....

S. Alexander was a good back who didn't like putting his head down and churning for more yards. He was not a very good short yardage gainer. I see Barkley in a similar vein. Its just what I see when I watch him play. 

...

So you're saying the guy who, in consecutive years, scored 14, 16, 14, 16, 27 TD's, wasn't a good short yardage back? I haven't looked up efficiency or any stats, but I do remember him being an absolute beast around the goalline. 

Do you have some stats to support that statement? I'd be really interested to see them.

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1 minute ago, kutta said:

So you're saying the guy who, in consecutive years, scored 14, 16, 14, 16, 27 TD's, wasn't a good short yardage back? I haven't looked up efficiency or any stats, but I do remember him being an absolute beast around the goalline. 

Do you have some stats to support that statement? I'd be really interested to see them.

I meant more in terms of running style...

He had a great line and he was extremely elusive but he absolutely did not like to lower his shoulder and make his own hole. 

 

 

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59 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

so add gallman??

Sure.  He should be a weakish RB2/RB3 while Barkley is out.  He's nothing special, but he could certainly help you get your starting RBs through their bye weeks. 

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Just now, fightingillini said:

Sure.  He should be a weakish RB2/RB3 while Barkley is out.  He's nothing special, but he could certainly help you get your starting RBs through their bye weeks. 

Depends on who the Giants sign, I could see a vet like CJ Anderson turning this into a RBBC in below average offense which would bake it difficult to start Gallman with any confidence even as a RB3

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2 minutes ago, PigSkinMan said:

Depends on who the Giants sign, I could see a vet like CJ Anderson turning this into a RBBC in below average offense which would bake it difficult to start Gallman with any confidence even as a RB3

That's certainly possible, but you might as well add Gallman and see what happens.

Question is....do you bid BIG FAAB dollars for him?  Since Gallman isn't that great, emptying the clip for Gallman could turn out to be a big mistake if indeed the NYG go out and get a vet to share the load.  Even if they don't, Gallman won't get anywhere near the load the Barkley gets.  You hope for 12-14 carries and 2-3 receptions.

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1 hour ago, rockaction said:

Sure it has. And advancements allowed Grant Hill to play in the end. It's just that ankle injuries, not given enough time to heal, can have serious deleterious effects on one's career.

I highly doubt anybody wants to argue this.

Sometimes, trainers almost hope for a fracture so they can reset the bone. That's what I used to hear. I could be wrong about it being that extreme, but that this can linger, and if pushed, get worse, is largely not up for debate.   

Roddy White had a career ending high ankle sprain... He was only 30, he just tried to play through it. 

My recollection may not be perfect, but that's what I recall happening. 

Edited by kittenmittens

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A lot of talk about athletes not coming back to full health after HAS. Are there any example of the opposite, players coming back and dominating?

Edited by reggio1

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It used to be called HAS, what’s the P stand for?

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14 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

It used to be called HAS, what’s the P stand for?

I’m guessing SPrain. Incorrect to add the P

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1 hour ago, tangfoot said:

It used to be called HAS, what’s the P stand for?

Female genitalia?

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Quote

Tom Pelissero @TomPelissero

#Giants RB Saquon Barkley is scheduled to see Dr. Robert Anderson tomorrow for another opinion on his high ankle sprain, source said (as @mortreport said). Continuing to gather info from top experts on how to proceed with an injury expected to sideline him at least four weeks.

 

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20 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

Roddy White had a career ending high ankle sprain... He was only 30, he just tried to play through it. 

My recollection may not be perfect, but that's what I recall happening. 

This is wrong.

Roddy White had a High Ankle Sprain in 2013 at age of 32.  He did play through it and had a successful year for a 32 year old WR. Could he have done better without ankle sprain? Probably. Did it end his career and make him ineffective? No.  He had 63 receptions and 711 yards in 13 games.

In 2014 he came back in age 33 year--when even great WRs begin to lose it. In 14 games he had 80 receptions and 921 yards. The HAS did not end his career.

He played another full 16 games in 2015 in age 34 although he only produced 43 receptions and 500+ yards. It was an elbow sprain and surgery that ended his career.

 

Can we stop it with the doom and gloom when none of us are Barkley's doctor. A HAS sprain although debilitating for 1 to 2 months is not career ending.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WhitRo00.htm

https://sportsinjurypredictor.com/player/roddy-white/3200

 

 

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8 minutes ago, az_prof said:

This is wrong.

Roddy White had a High Ankle Sprain in 2013 at age of 32.  He did play through it and had a successful year for a 32 year old WR. Could he have done better without ankle sprain? Probably. Did it end his career and make him ineffective? No.  He had 63 receptions and 711 yards in 13 games.

In 2014 he came back in age 33 year--when even great WRs begin to lose it. In 14 games he had 80 receptions and 921 yards. The HAS did not end his career.

He played another full 16 games in 2015 in age 34 although he only produced 43 receptions and 500+ yards. It was an elbow sprain and surgery that ended his career.

 

Can we stop it with the doom and gloom when none of us are Barkley's doctor. A HAS sprain although debilitating for 1 to 2 months is not career ending.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WhitRo00.htm

https://sportsinjurypredictor.com/player/roddy-white/3200

 

 

Thanks - my recollection was much worse than I thought, apparently.  Perhaps it ended his fantasy relevance as a top WR option in my mind.  I just thought he was never the same after playing through that HAS - maybe because he was 34... :)

I stand corrected, thanks for setting me straight.

To be clear, I was just saying that I really hope he rests it until healed rather than come back early (because of the thing I referenced that I was wrong about).  I don't think it's bad, just want them to be cautious, even though that specific example didn't happen the way I remembered.

 

Edited by kittenmittens

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IMO he will be out 6-8 weeks. There is no reason to rush back from a high ankle sprain which is a serious ankle injury. If you re-injure a high ankle sprain it can be devastating long term. 

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It's funny what Saquon's trade value is right now.  If you try to trade for him, his owner will want a star player in exchange.  But if you own him, people will offer you players who won't even be in your starting lineup.  This is even true whether the teams involved are 3-0 or 0-3.  Clearly, if you are 0-3 and own Saquon, you should be trying to trade him to the 3-0 owner who has depth.  A mutually beneficial trade should be easy to pull off.  But it's not.

Edited by Don Hutson
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On 9/23/2019 at 10:44 AM, STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:

This guy is never going to make it. Shys away from contact like Sean Alexander and the way he contorts his body will lend itself to unjury.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think hes is the best athlete in the NFL, I just don't see him playing more than a handful of injury riddled years. 

I’m sorry but....what?

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11 minutes ago, joffer said:

I’m sorry but....what?

 

Barkley is supremely athletic and an amazing talent however the way he throws his body around on the field in acrobatic maneuvers lends itself to injury.

Edited by STEADYMOBBIN 22
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11 minutes ago, joffer said:

I’m sorry but....what?

 

Barkley is supremely athletic and an amazing talent however the way he throws his body around on the field in acrobatic maneuvers lends itself to injury.

Edited by STEADYMOBBIN 22
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1 hour ago, Don Hutson said:

It's funny what Saquon's trade value is right now.  If you try to trade for him, his owner will want a star player in exchange.  But if you own him, people will offer you players who won't even be in your starting lineup.  This is even true whether the teams involved are 3-0 or 0-3.  Clearly, if you are 0-3 and own Saquon, you should be trying to trade him to the 3-0 owner who has depth.  A mutually beneficial trade should be easy to pull off.  But it's not.

Because people suck. This new generation of fantasy owner is fleece as much as you can instead of making mutually beneficial trades. Very hard to get deals in any leagues. And it always ends up being the same 3-4 guys while the rest are ### clowns.

Edited by Todem
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11 hours ago, Todem said:

Because people suck. This new generation of fantasy owner is fleece as much as you can instead of making mutually beneficial trades. Very hard to get deals in any leagues. And it always ends up being the same 3-4 guys while the rest are ### clowns.

I agree they generally do but the low end of the range of outcomes for Barkley is that he's out until at least Week 12 and if the Giants' season collapses in on itself in the meantime, they could be conservative with him - both in terms of when they bring him back and the workload he gets when he does return. Maybe you're trading for studly PPG performance that immediately resumes in Week 12 and continues through the fantasy play-offs. Maybe not.

I might be an ### clown for not wanting to trade a Week 4 starter for that - or I may have done my own risk analysis and come to a different conclusion. 

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There is no way the Giants rush anything here. 

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13 hours ago, STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:

 

Barkley is supremely athletic and an amazing talent however the way he throws his body around on the field in acrobatic maneuvers lends itself to injury.

This is a laughably horrible take in general. For the most part Barkley avoids contact by virtue of being as shifty as he is... he doesn't 'throw his body around'. He missed two games in three years in college and this was a freak accident where he was mid juke and the defender grabbed his ankle and rolled his entire body over top of it as Saquon was mid step. This had nothing to do with him 'throwing his body around'. His foot got caught in the grass as the dude tackling him put his entire body weight onto Saquon's ankle and rolled it extremely hard.

As for the Shaun Alexander take... most RBs could only hope to be as great as Shaun Alexander, you're talking about one of the best RBs in the NFL for the early 2000s and one of a few RBs in history to win an MVP award. And Alexander wasn't exactly injury prone, he broke his foot one year and then broke his wrist the next year and then he retired after that basically.

That said, Barkley is more Barry Sanders than Shaun Alexander in terms of style of runner. Alexander ran a 4.58 he didn't have near the shiftiness or breakaway speed or lateral agility of Barkley. Alexander ran through people a lot more than he avoided people.

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A lot of drama as if a player never had a HAS and returned from it. After bye? Really?

They are 1-2, have Danny Dimes, Shep, Tate and Engram.

They will bring him back when he is ready? 8 weeks and after bye when he is getting a 2nd opinion to see if he can come back even quicker? Thats what some think?

Makes no sense in NYC.

He wants to play, he will play when he is ready. Some always think they hold people out as if the HC dont need to win and get Barkley on the field. Some still think this even after we see even Calvin was told to lie by the Lions. Teams want their players on the field. Why people still believe teams will hold players off the field as if every team is the Packers is just too much.

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6 minutes ago, tackle for loss said:

A lot of drama as if a player never had a HAS and returned from it. After bye? Really?

They are 1-2, have Danny Dimes, Shep, Tate and Engram.

They will bring him back when he is ready? 8 weeks and after bye when he is getting a 2nd opinion to see if he can come back even quicker? Thats what some think?

Makes no sense in NYC.

He wants to play, he will play when he is ready. Some always think they hold people out as if the HC dont need to win and get Barkley on the field. Some still think this even after we see even Calvin was told to lie by the Lions. Teams want their players on the field. Why people still believe teams will hold players off the field as if every team is the Packers is just too much.

People typically don't seek a second medical opinion when they're content with the first one. This suggests to me the 4-8 week estimate is far more likely to be 8 than 4.

In terms of assessing the "fantasy risk" here, you're obviously entitled to believe that Barkley is going to fully recover this season and return to the field with his full pre-injury workload/usage and without any physical limitations. That's definitely one possible outcome but there are others. I would doubt that the team is going to shelve him for no good reason but I don't think anyone here is really suggesting that anyway.

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46 minutes ago, Khy said:

This is a laughably horrible take in general. For the most part Barkley avoids contact by virtue of being as shifty as he is... he doesn't 'throw his body around'. He missed two games in three years in college and this was a freak accident where he was mid juke and the defender grabbed his ankle and rolled his entire body over top of it as Saquon was mid step. This had nothing to do with him 'throwing his body around'. His foot got caught in the grass as the dude tackling him put his entire body weight onto Saquon's ankle and rolled it extremely hard.

As for the Shaun Alexander take... most RBs could only hope to be as great as Shaun Alexander, you're talking about one of the best RBs in the NFL for the early 2000s and one of a few RBs in history to win an MVP award. And Alexander wasn't exactly injury prone, he broke his foot one year and then broke his wrist the next year and then he retired after that basically.

That said, Barkley is more Barry Sanders than Shaun Alexander in terms of style of runner. Alexander ran a 4.58 he didn't have near the shiftiness or breakaway speed or lateral agility of Barkley. Alexander ran through people a lot more than he avoided people.

I know you guys are super insecure about my take on Barkley. I have prefaced every single one of my posts, marveling at his athletic ability and skill. I never suggested the guy isn’t good and agree on your Barry sanders comparison as I have stated that same comparison previously.

I’m sorry you think my take is horrible but it’s my take. I respect your opinion and we shall see how this plays out.

Edited by STEADYMOBBIN 22

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15 hours ago, Don Hutson said:

It's funny what Saquon's trade value is right now.  If you try to trade for him, his owner will want a star player in exchange.  But if you own him, people will offer you players who won't even be in your starting lineup.  This is even true whether the teams involved are 3-0 or 0-3.  Clearly, if you are 0-3 and own Saquon, you should be trying to trade him to the 3-0 owner who has depth.  A mutually beneficial trade should be easy to pull off.  But it's not.

I got an offer of Russell Wilson for him in redraft/keeper (but my keeper price on Barkley would have been $70+ auction dollars).  I'm 1-2, due to some bad schedule luck. Ended up accepting.  My current QB is Goff, and Wilson should be a good upgrade there.  I've also still got Dalvin Cook and Kerryon Johnson at RB, so hoping they will be enough to keep me going at RB. I'll probably regret if Barkley ends up on the shorter timeline, but I'm inclined to believe the longer timeline.

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Bleacher report indicating that his 2nd opinion didn't recommend "tightrope" surgery.

So there's that.

Apparently, this is the surgery AL's Tua had.

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53 minutes ago, kyoun1e said:

More on the "tightrope" surgery avoided apparently and Tua's recovery:

https://www.si.com/college-football/2019/01/06/tua-tagovailoa-ankle-surgery-alabama-injuries-tightrope

This may be good news. If Tua was back after 4 weeks having the surgery, maybe Barkley is thinking he's back on the lower end of the timeline without the surgery.

I can't really interpret this either way. In general people try to avoid surgery because of the potential for complications. If the non-surgical timeline was longer you might choose it because it was less risky.

This certainly could be good news but possibly just more information.

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On 9/24/2019 at 3:08 PM, STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:

 

Barkley is supremely athletic and an amazing talent however the way he throws his body around on the field in acrobatic maneuvers lends itself to injury.

lol a guy who gets tackled 20+ times a game is bound to get injured.  It's hilarious how you didn't make this prediction last year watching all his acrobatics and started all 16 games.

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I'm going to guess that the only time surgery would be an option in the case was if the Giants were a Super Bowl contender and it was week 12....They would want to make sure he was around for the playoffs....Since neither of these are even close to true surgery should not even be considered in my medical opinion (BTW I work in IT hahahaha)

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3 hours ago, kyoun1e said:

 

This may be good news. If Tua was back after 4 weeks having the surgery, maybe Barkley is thinking he's back on the lower end of the timeline without the surgery.

In some ways, yes

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2 hours ago, habsfan said:

In general people try to avoid surgery because of the potential for complications. If the non-surgical timeline was longer you might choose it because it was less risky.

Not entirely true, especially for sprains

Edited by Johnny B. Goode

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On 9/24/2019 at 4:08 PM, STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:

Barkley is supremely athletic and an amazing talent however the way he throws his body around on the field in acrobatic maneuvers lends itself to injury.

Hadn't this dude played all 57 games of his college/pro career prior to spraining his ankle in his 5th year as a starter at both levels?

I get the logic, but that logic gets literally applied to every running style and every body type and I think it's all just a bunch of logical fallacies.  If a guy cuts a lot then he's going to get hurt cutting.  If a guy doesn't cut and contort a lot then he's a target that is going to take too many big hits.  If a guy is tall then he is going to be too vulnerable and get injured.  If he's stout then he's too small and is going to get crushed.

In practice, Barkley has been about as durable as is humanly possible for a running back.  Christian McCaffrey may be the only RB in the entire NFL who has been more durable through his college/pro career so far.

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