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Devante Parker Dynasty is over (Stills resigned) (1 Viewer)

jacobo_moses

Footballguy
Guys in my 16 tm dyn idp startup league are saying Devante Parker is toast with Stills being re signed. So is the Dynasty dream over? Is he just a worthless WR drafted in the 1st rnd by MIA and will flirt with WR3 #s most of his career. Can't beat press coverage. 

This news bums me out. 

:(

 
No change for Parker for now-- Stills is Miami's speed threat opening up things -- he is never going to be a 1a or 1b WR, 2016 stats notwithstanding. 

That being said, if Carroo makes significant progress this season, HE may indicate Parker's death knell. Just sayin'...

 
I've been trying to trade him for the last month before this happened, now I guess I hold until he's a fa.

 
I don't know how anyone can say no change for Parker when people were clearly expecting him to get some of Stills' vacated targets. Personally, I wrote off Parker before he was drafted (didn't like him as a prospect), but I know a lot of people were still holding out hope for a 3rd year breakout. If anything, $8M/year indicates Miami plans to use Stills more than last year and/or that Gase has very little faith in Parker and Carroo taking the next step. This is a big blow to both of those guys' redraft and dynasty value.

 
If you thought Kenny Stills killed Parker's dynasty value, then you didn't think much of Parker to begin with.

 
No targets for Parker. Landry will get his, stills can duplicate last year or better, and maybe Julius Thomas eats into the tds. 

I acquired Parker in a trade after picking up an orphan. I debated trading him all last season while he still had "size/speed/1st rd pedigree". I gave up lacy, and picked up a later 1st where I drafted dixon? over Mike Thomas. Stupid kool-aid. This is the grieving thread, right? 

 
I don't know how anyone can say no change for Parker when people were clearly expecting him to get some of Stills' vacated targets. Personally, I wrote off Parker before he was drafted (didn't like him as a prospect), but I know a lot of people were still holding out hope for a 3rd year breakout. If anything, $8M/year indicates Miami plans to use Stills more than last year and/or that Gase has very little faith in Parker and Carroo taking the next step. This is a big blow to both of those guys' redraft and dynasty value.
Mostly agree.  I think it means it's a put-up-or-shut-up move for Parker.  If Parker steps up (and Caroo looks promising) they don't extend Landry or have a lot more leverage against him next year at a minimum.  If he doesn't, they probably let Parker play it out and move on like Floyd.

 
Mostly agree.  I think it means it's a put-up-or-shut-up move for Parker.  If Parker steps up (and Caroo looks promising) they don't extend Landry or have a lot more leverage against him next year at a minimum.  If he doesn't, they probably let Parker play it out and move on like Floyd.
Yeah, I'm guessing Stills' contract will be cuttable in 2 years when Parker's contract is up.

 
If you thought Kenny Stills killed Parker's dynasty value, then you didn't think much of Parker to begin with.
I think (thought) a ton of him, but Stills takes targets from Parker, and that hurts his value, period.  They've already brought in a TE that could end up with 100 targets, a position that got 35 from their most targeted TE last year.  Parker can overcome it, we all know that talent gets the love and if Parker has it he'll get it, but he's got a lot more competition to show it.

 
Yeah, I'm guessing Stills' contract will be cuttable in 2 years when Parker's contract is up.
I think if all goes well for them they'd rather have Parker and Stills, letting the very ordinary Landry go elsewhere for an overpay and Caroo stepping into that slot as a very ordinary slot guy that's not overpaid.

 
I think if all goes well for them they'd rather have Parker and Stills, letting the very ordinary Landry go elsewhere for an overpay and Caroo stepping into that slot as a very ordinary slot guy that's not overpaid.
I think we are the only two people who think that about Landry. If it weren't for the PPR format, he wouldn't be nearly the (fantasy) household name that he is.

I'm not really sure where Gase stands on Parker, though. He (or someone in the organization while he was the HC) traded up to get Carroo. Parker was drafted before Gase came on.

 
Landry is ordinary??

84, 110, and 94 receptions in his first three seasons.

Has there ever been a player who averaged 96 catches a year over his first 3 seasons?

No, he's not a true #1 Red Zone target, but he's also far from ordinary.

 
Landry is ordinary??

84, 110, and 94 receptions in his first three seasons.

Has there ever been a player who averaged 96 catches a year over his first 3 seasons?

No, he's not a true #1 Red Zone target, but he's also far from ordinary.
While I won't say Landry is ordinary, I don't think he's elite.  I do agree this Stills signing is insurance.  Insurance against Parker not living up to his potential.  Insurance against getting out priced when Landry's contract is up.  I am probably reading this wrong but I take both of these signings as more as noting wanting to pony up money to Landry.

 
Landry is ordinary??

84, 110, and 94 receptions in his first three seasons.

Has there ever been a player who averaged 96 catches a year over his first 3 seasons?

No, he's not a true #1 Red Zone target, but he's also far from ordinary.
12.1, 10.4, and 9.0 YPC with 13 TD's total over those three years.

Yes, he's ordinary. 

 
tangfoot said:
He's PPR elite
No question.  I didn't say anything about his fantasy value, I've actually been a proponent of it in other discussions.  But there are a lot of guy that could have caught all those 9 yard passes being thrown his way.

 
Hankmoody said:
12.1, 10.4, and 9.0 YPC with 13 TD's total over those three years.

Yes, he's ordinary. 
Was Wes Welker ordinary?  The difference in their numbers is easily mapped to the difference in their respective offenses.  If Landry was ordinary, his production would be too.  But It's not.  He's one of the very best slot receivers in the game and the slot is more valuable than it's ever been.  He's made the pro-bowl twice in three years.  He's finished top 5 in total yards twice in three years.  He was named to PFF all-pro team.  Jarvis Landry is a very good football player and is very valuable in fantasy formats that reward his kind of production (PPR). 

 
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Skoo said:
Landry is ordinary??

84, 110, and 94 receptions in his first three seasons.

Has there ever been a player who averaged 96 catches a year over his first 3 seasons?

No, he's not a true #1 Red Zone target, but he's also far from ordinary.
Don't confuse volume with talent. It takes a large amount of ordinary to only score 13 times on 288 receptions.

Look, he's a gritty little slot receiver with good hands, but slot WRs are like LBs. You can always find a pretty good one for cheap. If Amendola was still paired up with Bradford people would be calling him an elite slot WR.

 
Don't confuse volume with talent. It takes a large amount of ordinary to only score 13 times on 288 receptions.

Look, he's a gritty little slot receiver with good hands, but slot WRs are like LBs. You can always find a pretty good one for cheap. If Amendola was still paired up with Bradford people would be calling him an elite slot WR.
Volume is an indicator of talent in most cases.  Extrapolate Terrence Williams numbers using the target volume of Dez Bryant and he's the much better player.  But there's a reason he doesn't demand the target volume of Dez Bryant.  

If it was easy for guys to rack up those reception totals, a lot of guys would be racking up those target/reception totals. 

It's a skill to consistently offer quality targets at the first level; especially when the defense knows it's coming.  I get that some folks don't value the slot position.  But the NFL does and the PPR format does--and Jarvis Landry is one of the best. 

EDIT: From 2008-2010 Wes Welker scored 14 times on 320 receptions.  He made the Pro-Bowl each year and the All-Pro team twice.  During that span, the Pats had 85 passing TDs.  That's more than the Dolphins have had in any 3 year stretch of Landry's career.  Again--was Wes Welker ordinary?

 
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Volume is an indicator of talent in most cases.  Extrapolate Terrence Williams numbers using the target volume of Dez Bryant and he's the much better player.  But there's a reason he doesn't demand the target volume of Dez Bryant.  

If it was easy for guys to rack up those reception totals, a lot of guys would be racking up those target/reception totals. 

It's a skill to consistently offer quality targets at the first level; especially when the defense knows it's coming.  I get that some folks don't value the slot position.  But the NFL does and the PPR format does--and Jarvis Landry is one of the best. 
Oh no, I got excited that someone else considered Landry ordinary and I fell into the trap of talking to you about Landry again! Are you actually hankmoody and you were just baiting me into this conversation? Very sneaky, Coop. Very sneaky. :P  Look, all I'm going to say is that the non-dynamic duo of Danny Amendola and Sam Bradford did it. It's not somehow more special when Landry and Tannehill do it.

 
Oh no, I got excited that someone else considered Landry ordinary and I fell into the trap of talking to you about Landry again! Are you actually hankmoody and you were just baiting me into this conversation? Very sneaky, Coop. Very sneaky. :P  Look, all I'm going to say is that the non-dynamic duo of Danny Amendola and Sam Bradford did it. It's not somehow more special when Landry and Tannehill do it.
Except Danny Amendola and Sam Bradford never came close to doing it. 

 
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Don't confuse volume with talent. It takes a large amount of ordinary to only score 13 times on 288 receptions.

Look, he's a gritty little slot receiver with good hands, but slot WRs are like LBs. You can always find a pretty good one for cheap. If Amendola was still paired up with Bradford people would be calling him an elite slot WR.


Hankmoody said:
12.1, 10.4, and 9.0 YPC with 13 TD's total over those three years.

Yes, he's ordinary. 
I'll ask again, how many players in the NFL have averaged 96 catches over their first 3 seasons?

If he was so "ordinary", why aren't there a bunch of guys who average over 90 catches a year?

You've got to get open quite a bit to get 100 catches. And you've got to catch the ball.

As I said in my original post, no, he's not a prototypical #1 WR. But that doesn't mean he's not extremely talented and valuable.

 
I'll ask again, how many players in the NFL have averaged 96 catches over their first 3 seasons?

If he was so "ordinary", why aren't there a bunch of guys who average over 90 catches a year?

You've got to get open quite a bit to get 100 catches. And you've got to catch the ball.

As I said in my original post, no, he's not a prototypical #1 WR. But that doesn't mean he's not extremely talented and valuable.
It is very understandable that this doesn't happen often in the NFL because this was not a recipe for success. What's remarkable is that Miami did it for 3 years. Landry is really good at avoiding first downs and touchdowns. Why they kept forcing him the ball, I don't know.

 
85 receptions and only 3 TDs. That's a pretty remarkably ordinary feat that gives Tannehill and Landry a run for their money.
Pro-Bowler and 2nd-team All-Pro Wes Welker and the greatest QB of all time scored 3 TDs on 111 receptions in 2008.  

 
Pro-Bowler and 2nd-team All-Pro Wes Welker and the greatest QB of all time scored 3 TDs on 111 receptions in 2008.  
:no:  C'mon, now I know you're just trolling me. Tell me that's not based on super bowl wins. Eli was part of two super bowl winning teams. That should be proof enough that it's a team game. If you're going by raw stats, he's behind Peyton, Brees, and Rodgers, IMO.

But yeah, that's pretty impressive that they managed so few TDs. But they did have a higher average over his whole career in NE.

 
:no:  C'mon, now I know you're just trolling me. Tell me that's not based on super bowl wins. Eli was part of two super bowl winning teams. That should be proof enough that it's a team game. If you're going by raw stats, he's behind Peyton, Brees, and Rodgers, IMO.

But yeah, that's pretty impressive that they managed so few TDs. But they did have a higher average over his whole career in NE.
Last question.  Are you really suggesting that calling Tom Brady the greatest QB of all time is trolling? 

 
Landry tied with Beckham for the most receptions ALL-TIME in their first 3 seasons.

But yeah, totally ordinary.

 
FF Ninja said:
Hankmoody said:
I think if all goes well for them they'd rather have Parker and Stills, letting the very ordinary Landry go elsewhere for an overpay and Caroo stepping into that slot as a very ordinary slot guy that's not overpaid.
I think we are the only two people who think that about Landry.
I think that about Landry, too.

 
Yeah WTH. This thread is supposedto be about Parker and Stills. Not Landry and his weak value if not for PPR.  :yawn:
I thought we all agreed that Parker was a bust and Stills is overpaid, got bored, and moved on? What's left to discuss?

Last season the Dolphins threw only 476 passes, 31st in the league. 18.3% to RB, 64.5% to WR, and a mere 15.3% to TE. Even if they jump up from 30 to 34 passes per game (quite the assumption*), the addition of Julius Thomas and the unexpected re-signing of Stills doesn't leave much hope for an expanded role for Parker. 

*In Tannehill's 13 healthy games, they only averaged 30.75 pass attempts per game.

 
:no:  C'mon, now I know you're just trolling me. Tell me that's not based on super bowl wins. Eli was part of two super bowl winning teams. That should be proof enough that it's a team game. If you're going by raw stats, he's behind Peyton, Brees, and Rodgers, IMO.

But yeah, that's pretty impressive that they managed so few TDs. But they did have a higher average over his whole career in NE.
Guys put up raw numbers in this era (see Kirk Cousins).  You could argue that Rodgers has better numbers; Manning and Brees are in the same neighborhood but both threw far more picks.  Manning had a crappy play-off record.  Love Brees but he constantly plays from behind,  Raw numbers or wins?  Depends if we're playing fantasy or real football, right?  Yes, I would base things on wins, especially SB wins. Heck, Brady has as many as Peyton, Brees, Rodgers AND Favre combined

For the record, I'm a Marino guy.  Probably always will be my all-time favorite because he led "my" team and you always felt you could win any game with him under center. He retired with most passing records; same with Favre after him but Brady has numbers, championships, clutch SB victories, longevity and durability; 16 games year in and year out other than the suspension and an ACL.  Amazes me that people continue to look past him.

As far as Parker goes, Gase called him out last season.  It isn't Kenny Stills that will keep him down.  It's up to Parker himself.  Step it up, stay on the field and make some plays.

 
Guys put up raw numbers in this era (see Kirk Cousins).  You could argue that Rodgers has better numbers; Manning and Brees are in the same neighborhood but both threw far more picks.  Manning had a crappy play-off record.  Love Brees but he constantly plays from behind,  Raw numbers or wins?  Depends if we're playing fantasy or real football, right?  Yes, I would base things on wins, especially SB wins. Heck, Brady has as many as Peyton, Brees, Rodgers AND Favre combined

For the record, I'm a Marino guy.  Probably always will be my all-time favorite because he led "my" team and you always felt you could win any game with him under center. He retired with most passing records; same with Favre after him but Brady has numbers, championships, clutch SB victories, longevity and durability; 16 games year in and year out other than the suspension and an ACL.  Amazes me that people continue to look past him.

As far as Parker goes, Gase called him out last season.  It isn't Kenny Stills that will keep him down.  It's up to Parker himself.  Step it up, stay on the field and make some plays.
Again, it's a team game. Not just the players on the field, either. The level of play Brady's gotten from coaching/management (including GM) has far exceeded that which the other players got. Dungy was probably the best coach out of all of the coaches in that group, but Dungy was much more ethical than BB which almost definitely held him back, relatively speaking. But the awful defenses the GM gave Dungy were probably the biggest problem. Brady has played with some of the better defenses in the NFL. FWIW, I totally agree with you that it isn't fair to compare Brady's numbers to Cousins' numbers, but he's had enough overlap with Peyton, Brees, and Rodgers that I think it's fair for them. And I shouldn't have left Marino off that list. Dumb as a rock, but what he did in Miami was impressive. His numbers relative to the era were ridiculous. 

But back to Parker, even if he's not a bust (I think he is), he's still going to have limited opportunities this year. It's basically the same as last year plus Julius Thomas. He had an uphill battle already, but things got tougher this offseason.

 

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