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What do you think is wrong with college education? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter wazoo11
- Start date
Reg Lllama of Brixton
Footballguy
Too expensive.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Too much of it is through overpriced #####y schools and not enough of it is through good schools that cost a reasonable price.
Also, what is "the best four years of studying" supposed to be?
whiskey7
Footballguy
Took you guys 4 years? 
Just kidding. Not sure how to answer the "best years of studying" question. I will say my degree has lead to me having a good job/living but I consider the things I learned outside the classroom to be the most valuable parts of my college education/experience.
Was discussing higher education with my FIL last weekend. Got to talking about how much someone can spend on certain degrees these days and really have no realistic hope of parlaying the degree into a financially successful career. Questioned whether some really expensive/elite schools should be offering degree programs that have little to no career prospects. Guess the question that needs to be answered is is it the job of a college/university to educate or prepare someone for a job? A good school does both and (usually) the more you learn the better your prospects. Cant overlook the fact that someone can come out of school 6 figures in the hole with a degree that wont help them much more than their HS diploma, though.
Just kidding. Not sure how to answer the "best years of studying" question. I will say my degree has lead to me having a good job/living but I consider the things I learned outside the classroom to be the most valuable parts of my college education/experience.
Was discussing higher education with my FIL last weekend. Got to talking about how much someone can spend on certain degrees these days and really have no realistic hope of parlaying the degree into a financially successful career. Questioned whether some really expensive/elite schools should be offering degree programs that have little to no career prospects. Guess the question that needs to be answered is is it the job of a college/university to educate or prepare someone for a job? A good school does both and (usually) the more you learn the better your prospects. Cant overlook the fact that someone can come out of school 6 figures in the hole with a degree that wont help them much more than their HS diploma, though.
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Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Other than learning how to binge drink, pretty useless.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
#MCGA
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
College has passed religion as America's #1 social branding system and that is the only reason it is allowed to refrain from entering the cyber age and cost at least 5x more than it should.
Thorpe
Footballguy
Agree, and if they are practical they don't need to be taught at the University level. EG: Exercise Science. Why do you need a University degree to be a trainer?
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
While I agree with you whole-heartedly on this, I find this a bit hypocritical coming from the same team that demeans and insults anyone without a college degree as "uneducated" and "rednecks".
But, yeah, you are right that not everyone should go to college.
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KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Combo of a lot of things, IMO. A lot have been mentioned:
1. Way too expensive/can't get out of the loans.
Just nuts that people are dropping 100K on an education that just provides a base education for a 40-50K starting job. Takes so long to get out from under the cloud of the loan. If I remember right, I think the UW's tutition has gone up around 15x since I was there 20 years ago. No way wages can keep up with that.
2. A lot of worthless degrees that don't translate.
3. I think we push the 'go to college' route too young. So many people I know changed majors, careers, dropped out, etc. So hard to know and pick what you want to do for the rest of your life at 18 years old. ... and while you figure it out - see #1.
4. Piggybacking on #3, there are too many people going to college. I think what that has done is just made the college degree worth even less and you need to go on to yet more school to make a decent wage for a lot of degrees.
Don't get me wrong, it was some of the most fun I had in my life, but it's completely different now, mostly b/c of cost. Not sure what I am going to suggest my kids do in 8 years when they are going to have to think about this.
1. Way too expensive/can't get out of the loans.
Just nuts that people are dropping 100K on an education that just provides a base education for a 40-50K starting job. Takes so long to get out from under the cloud of the loan. If I remember right, I think the UW's tutition has gone up around 15x since I was there 20 years ago. No way wages can keep up with that.
2. A lot of worthless degrees that don't translate.
3. I think we push the 'go to college' route too young. So many people I know changed majors, careers, dropped out, etc. So hard to know and pick what you want to do for the rest of your life at 18 years old. ... and while you figure it out - see #1.
4. Piggybacking on #3, there are too many people going to college. I think what that has done is just made the college degree worth even less and you need to go on to yet more school to make a decent wage for a lot of degrees.
Don't get me wrong, it was some of the most fun I had in my life, but it's completely different now, mostly b/c of cost. Not sure what I am going to suggest my kids do in 8 years when they are going to have to think about this.
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
Don't have kids now, dunno if I ever will. But if I ever do, no way will I be guiding them down the college route unless they show an early aptitude in math/science.
Johnny Rock
Footballguy
...and cost the taxpayers tons of money with bad debt while the "students" get taken advantage of. It's criminal.
Reg Lllama of Brixton
Footballguy
Don't Toews Me
Footballguy
This.
Some of the kids really shouldn't be in college because they just don't have their priorities straight.
Others actually do apply themselves and come away successful.
rockaction
Footballguy
Don't Toews Me
Footballguy
No clue on the "if it gives the students the best 4 years of studying" question though.
Phil Elliott
Footballguy
tenure
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Go to your local Starbucks and ask the baristas what they went to school for. That should give you some examples of impractical majors.
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Reg Lllama of Brixton
Footballguy
Dedfin
Footballguy
The price should be free for public institutions.
I don't think 2 year degrees should exist because I would like to know that my mechanic/electrician/CNA to have read some philosophy, history, and college level calculus. I think everyone should be educated to a greater degree than what a high school provides.
I also think one the things that is wrong is the student. I think all HS graduates should spend 1-2 years serving their country prior to university.
I don't think 2 year degrees should exist because I would like to know that my mechanic/electrician/CNA to have read some philosophy, history, and college level calculus. I think everyone should be educated to a greater degree than what a high school provides.
I also think one the things that is wrong is the student. I think all HS graduates should spend 1-2 years serving their country prior to university.
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NutterButter
Footballguy
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
Sorority girls aren't required to get bang married middle aged men.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
For-profit college education is a problem. The overall cost is ridiculous now, but it is a necessary evil in our society. I am pro trade schools, wish they held more cache because there is a lot of pluses for the economy and society as a whole with them in play. The world needs ditch diggers too, not everyone is a brain surgeon.
Tick
Footballguy
In engineering, the faculty is too focused on reseach. Classes are too math-based and not practical enough (semester-long class about tuning PID loops starts every problem with "The response is modeled as f(x)=blahblah" when nobody outside of a classroom has seen a response expressed as a formula). Also, there's too much of a focus on how to create something and not enough about how to use existing things to build something new - they teach you how to design a transformer, but not the codes you have to follow when using a transformer as a component in a control enclosure.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Judge Smails
Footballguy
So, I disagree with a lot of this. True - kids don't have a clue what they want to do at 18. I didn't. Went to school to major in fire science and be a fireman, then after a couple of business classes that fire was lit and went into sales. I still believe a college degree gives you options. You can figure stuff later on. Nobody can take it away from you. Your options are a) entrepreneur b) learn a trade c) get a degree and figure stuff out. You can say just go be an electrician or be a carpenter but that's pretty simplistic, and options are limited. The question is value - return on investment if debt is taken on. But I think overall people with college degrees will out earn those who don't have one, and the investment will pay off. Not the case every time, but I'm glad my kids all have degrees.
captain_amazing
Footballguy
Probably already mentioned, but IMO the main issue is a mix of the consumer and how schools are competing against one another.
For students, who for a majority (I presume) want a nice campus - new facilities, nice dorms, etc. - in addition to a good education, it's easier for two competing schools for one school to point to a brand new building and say "Hey, you'll learn more from us AND you'll get to eat in this super sweet cafeteria." For the student, it's probably more difficult to discern the educational value between to comparable schools, whereas discerning things like fancy new facilities is pretty easy.
So, schools dump money into expensive remodels and new builds as the primary way to solicit new students, driving up the cost of tuition.
For students, who for a majority (I presume) want a nice campus - new facilities, nice dorms, etc. - in addition to a good education, it's easier for two competing schools for one school to point to a brand new building and say "Hey, you'll learn more from us AND you'll get to eat in this super sweet cafeteria." For the student, it's probably more difficult to discern the educational value between to comparable schools, whereas discerning things like fancy new facilities is pretty easy.
So, schools dump money into expensive remodels and new builds as the primary way to solicit new students, driving up the cost of tuition.
Agree with a lot already posted. I'll add that our high schools are so poor at preparing students for college that when they arrive, the college needs to do a lot of the foundational work. For instance, I am in math, and for students to go to college who cannot do basic algebra is ridiculous. Add to that the fact that students are often taught to just follow rules and not really think, and why are they going to college again? I guess that's my main point: high school students are all to often not really able to think, even upon graduation.
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
Keep in mind that universities aren't supposed to just be job training programs. Learning for the sake of learning has great value in and of itself.
Mr. Know-It-All
Footballguy
While I agree with this statement, it is not practical for the majority of college students out there to enjoy the leisure of this approach. Instead they get bogged down with unmanageable debt in pursuit of the greater good of learning with no escape hatch on the other side of this noble pursuit.
Everyone wants to go to college because of cultural expectations that you have to go to college to be successful. It is practical for those that know what they want to do and can use college to prepare them for that path - but I know plenty of people with Philosophy, General Studies and Business degrees (to name a few) that are working in jobs that in all truth really shouldn't require a degree but do because of cultural expectations.
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
I like the students who go straight through and get their masters....So tell me what your last job was like?..... huh, I have been in school...What practical experience do you have.?..what, I've been in school....Have you ever had a job?...well no...So tell me why I should hire you?....I think I would make a great VP
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
Case in point.
NutterButter
Footballguy
The one additional year masters program where you take masters class in your senior year is a pretty good value.
belljr
Footballguy
Maybe but they are already capped.
THe amount of a loan from federal are now capped
Freshman - 5500 a year
Sophmore - 6000
Junior - 6500
Senior 7000
give or take. You are not getting 100k in federal loans anymore
At least that how it worked the past 5 years shrug
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NutterButter
Footballguy
Was it ever that high? Twenty years ago, I got 5500 in stafford and 1500 perkins and that was it. If anything, it doesn't sound like they've been adjusting for college inflation from the numbers you listed.
belljr
Footballguy
I don't remember for me - but the idea that federal loans are driving the cost of college upwards I don't agree with
I just walked away from a 3 year post graduate degree with 140K in loans. (I had a scholarship too, but for some stupid reason they didn't allow us to work for a full year, and unpaid internships are a thing in this field.)
It sucks. My loan payments are more than my rent.
belljr
Footballguy
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belljr
Footballguy
Ah I see the difference you were in grad school
it depends on your status
Dependent Undergraduate Student
Dependent Undergraduate Student with a Parent PLUS Loan denial*
Independent Undergraduate Student
Graduate and Professional Degree Student
Career Maximum Loan Amounts
$31,000
A maximum of $23,000 may be subsidized
$57,500
A maximum of $23,000 may be subsidized
$57,500
A maximum of $23,000 may be subsidized
$138,500
The graduate debt limit includes Direct Loans received for undergraduate study.
I did not know that. As my son meets the first criteria
So i guess it does play into some of it.
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