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RB Chris Carson, SEA - 10.7.21 - Neck Issue (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Borden
- Start date
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
One of the things that made me go
was when Carson made this catch in the 2017 preseason. There aren't a ton of RBs, especially bruisers like Carson, who can track and adjust to a deep pass like that. Carson is nothing if not interesting. 
Faust
MVP
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fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Had 12 yards a minute into the game, tacked on another 12 for the remaining 59 minutes.
He’s bottom of my bench and will be replaced when I find my next add.
He’s bottom of my bench and will be replaced when I find my next add.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Was wondering this myself
Booth guys are too busy talking incessantly about Mack to notice he hasn't been in
Chaka
Footballguy
Mack is a legit story, Carson may simply be a scrub. Penny is expected to be in the lineup, the story on a national level would be Penny not being in the lineup. We are the only type of people who recognize something odd about Penny being in over Carson.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Carrol certainly seems like he is confused about the RBs and their actual productivity.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
This thing could be a mess for the whole season. I recall they didn’t have very many games where they were favored by Vegas. I think tonight is a small example of what the Seahawks will be offensively and it’s vomit inducing.
Chaka
Footballguy
They are not the contenders of years past but this isn't the worst team Russell Wilson has led and when Wilson is leading the team you always have a puncher's chance.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
I see no reason to drop either but if it continues to be a split with negative game script neither is worth starting. I will continue to root for Penny and I think they are too. They had him running routes tonight and had him split out wide. He looks like a rookie to me who needs to regain the composure and confidence he had in college. Hopefully, he can do that.
Also, I posted this in the Penny thread but is relevant here: https://twitter.com/chad_scott13/status/1041903380304617472?s=21
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BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
The Frankman
Footballguy
Beat writers are up in arms over the lack of Chris Carson, hilarious.
The Frankman
Footballguy
worrierking
Footballguy
This is strange in many ways. Carson looked ok, better than Penny, at least. Carroll said he was going to get him the ball more and for the first series it looked that way, then nada.
Carroll says a weird thing about him being gassed from playing on special teams. Maybe Carson complained about playing on special team and that ticked off Carroll or maybe he wasn't hustling on a play and Carroll confronted him and he said it was because of special teams, so he benched him. It's speculation, but something like this must have happened.
Carroll says a weird thing about him being gassed from playing on special teams. Maybe Carson complained about playing on special team and that ticked off Carroll or maybe he wasn't hustling on a play and Carroll confronted him and he said it was because of special teams, so he benched him. It's speculation, but something like this must have happened.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
He’s never been productive. Not in the NFL, not in college. He has a flash play here or there. His ypc has stunk, his auxiliaries are average. Everyone loves the back that runs over DB’s that they’ll ignore everything to try to validate his role.
Ok, so one 50 yard run? It’s short sighted. He had one good game last year (against a very bad run defense). Think they would even dream about splitting Carson out wide? This narrative from preseason is such a falsehood. Carroll created this scenario with his stupid ### commentary. Should never have made these wild assertations about a guy who has never been a workhorse.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
This is Pete Carroll when he doesn't have a defense dominating the league. Just another ham & egger coach. Yeah, lets play Carson on special teams because we drafted Penny to be the man. No idea how to use Jimmy Graham, no idea which RB is actually better. Carroll is a bum and it's gonna start to show now.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
He's been productive everytime he's been asked.
No earthy idea what you are talking about with his ypc stinking. No idea what auxiliaries are either.
He's not got a lot of volume. That's about all you can come up with that would be accurate. I'll let you keep to your regularly schedule Penny stumping now.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
There has been no indication about Carson’s productivity besides biased eyeballs that love when he crunches a DB. This board gets all steamy over two down bruisers but they have no place in today’s NFL. There is a reason he had close to zero productivity in college and there is a reason Seattle is turning away from him early.
rockaction
Footballguy
Penny looked like a total plodder out there. He needs to drop fifteen or so if he wants to run like that.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
What’s the point of arguing this? Congrats that you think your eyeballs are better then mine. Let’s wait ten weeks and if the numbers back you up, I’ll admit it. Right now I think the line is bad and play calling is awful but he looks much the same as he did in college. Agile in space, picks through trash and nice short area burst when the room has been there which isn’t often. I love how everyone is giving every other rookie the benefit of the doubt even though Saquon has under 3 ypc outside his big run, Michel had the same problems with missing camp, Kerryon is fighting two JAG’s for work, Guice blew up his knee, Jones is inactive and Royce has lost a lot of 1/2nd down work to a UDFA and is invisible in the passing game. Guy deserves time and a chance. Not to be used as a device to point out Seattle’s incompetence last draft, that’s obvious. Worst thing that happened for the guy in fantasy circles in being taken in the first so fantasy goons promoting the RB doesn’t matter narrative can use him as their primary target for poor drafting.
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Joe Summer
Footballguy
Time to drop all Seahawks and just move on.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
rockaction
Footballguy
Not much, I guess. Just an observation, and that I think Carson looked a lot better than you're giving him credit for when he was in there. This seems like a departure from the "best man" winning the job, which has been Seattle's modus operandi under Carroll.
Also, the only place I've rostered Carson is the subscriber contest, and we know I ain't winning that, so I really have no personal interest in arguing a Carson/Penny thing until I see either short shrift or a hype machine going on for one or the other.
And I don't think the numbers are going to tell the story if they're going to trot what looks like an inferior back out there. We can tell by PFF stats if you'd like. Elusiveness rating, YAC, YPC, etc.
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bostonfred
Footballguy
Carson's best runs were 9, 4 and 4 yards.
Penny's best were 10, 6 and 4.
Carson got them one first down, a 2 yard run on 2nd and 1 after he got 9 on his first carry of the game.
Penny got them two - a 10 yard run was a 4 yard run after his own 6 yard run where he made a nice move and had to stretch for a first down.
More importantly, Carson was in on no scoring drives
Penny was in on their first td drive and the subsequent drive that ended with the interception. He carried the ball nine times in 14 plays on those two drives. The touchdown pass to Lockett was off a play action fake to penny. The interception was an underthrown pass to penny.
Most importantly, the coaches just plain used penny in more fantasy friendly ways.
Carson played rb and special teams.
Penny played rb and wide receiver.
Carson got spelled by penny
Penny never got spelled by Carson
It's not like either one played awesome, it was a tough d that was wrecking their line. But penny got several big votes of confidence from the coaches last night and was in the game when it was on the line. That's a big shift from two weeks ago.
rockaction
Footballguy
I'm in total agreement with this; my posting was really about Carson not looking too badly against a stout defensive front. Penny certainly did get that vote of confidence and usage spoke volumes about where both are potentially headed in the offense.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
rockaction
Footballguy
Oh, but we shouldn't forget Carson averaged 4 YPC while Penny averaged 3 YPC. I'd like to see elusiveness ratings and YAC before I judged the better night. All we know is what the coaches thought, and they look like they want to use the first-rounder going forward, a point EBF has made numerous times on this board, the validity of which I've paid attention to.
Chaka
Footballguy
DocHolliday
Footballguy
As a Carson owner, I cannot wait to drop him and get away from this offense. It stinks. Carroll has no clue what to do on O. Wilson is not going to be able to cover up Carroll and the lack of talent this year.
Carson is probably the better runner than Penny right now but Penny is going to get more touches each week.
Carson is probably the better runner than Penny right now but Penny is going to get more touches each week.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Penny got hit at the handoff twice when the defender broke through the line. Once for 0 yards and one for negative one.
If Wilson doesn't hand him the ball on those plays he finishes with 8 for 31 instead of 10 for 30.
You can't take plays away, but ypc in a small sample size is virtually meaningless.
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, true. I'm just trying to use a better measurement than my vision. I'm sort of admitting my own limitations in what I'm personally seeing on a football field.
Regardless, your points were all taken. What matters is who sees the field and who gets the carries regarding this situation, and it was certainly Penny last night.
The Frankman
Footballguy
https://twitter.com/Liz_Mathews/status/1042154481482231808
#CheatinPete morphing into #LyinPete now. It was clownshoes how Carson has looked strong and he just suddenly stopped getting carries. Seahawks beat writers lost their mind in Twitter covering that mess. If he simply said timeshare, that's fine. If he wanted to see what Penny had (even at the expense of Carson), okay that's a decision. Don't give me that gassed bullcrap.
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Chaka
Footballguy
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
No Seahawk RB is going to succeed behind that line. Especially with Baldwin out.
If you're forced to start him, good luck. Might get better at home but that line is absolutely horrid.
If you're forced to start him, good luck. Might get better at home but that line is absolutely horrid.
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djmich
Footballguy
A few posts earlier you compared three rushing attempts of Penny's vs Carsons. I assume you did it to infer something, but would seem like a pretty small sample size to make a meaningful comparison.
Carson has averaged 4.6 YPC over 62 career carries. Thats all we have, and that aint bad.
Completely agree that the coaching staff is pushing Penny in for playing time. None of us know the reason and the coaching staff just flat out making crap up doesn't help us know the reason. Penny barely played in preseason, gained a crapton of weight and is averaging 2.2ypc so far this year....I'm not sure how you establish "trust" in a player based on that.
Right now what he has is draft capital and I'd bet that's getting him in the game, we'll see what he does with it. Sitting at 0-2, can't say its worked well for the Seahawks so far.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Yes, it is a small sample size. The point I was making was that people said Carson outplayed penny this week. Or that penny was plodding. And they pointed to a difference in yards per carry on a small sample size. But penny's 3 best runs were better than Carson's 3 best - penny had runs of 10, 6 and 4 compared with Carson's 9, 4 and 4. And penny got hit behind the line of scrimmage twice as he was receiving the handoff, resulting in carries of 0 and minus one. So Carson's 6 carries for 24 and Penny's 10 for 30 look like they're a whole yard per carry different, but the reality is they both looked decent.
Agreed. I liked him a lot as a sleeper last year and was bummed when he got hurt.
Draft capital is definitely part of it. But it's also his ceiling. If I have two guys playing similarly right now but one has worked as hard as anyone to get there and the other is just getting started, I want to reward the hard worker, but I still want the higher ceiling guy to get reps so he can reach his potential.
The team sees penny as a workhorse feature back - a guy who not only has the size to carry the load and the speed to hit the home run, but the receiving ability to get there. And they used him in two critical fourth quarter drives when they were trailing the bears, so the much discussed blocking issues apparently aren't a show stopper.
Carson is trying to make the case that he can do those things, too. And maybe he'll succeed. But the team apparently thought penny had that potential and didn't think their current roster did, so it's a case he'll have to continue to make.
The seahawks lost their first game and with Carson as the starter, they had 3 points through three quarters this week.
Then they brought in penny and gave him the ball on 10 of the next 14 plays. Penny had more first downs than Carson, and they scored their first touchdown on a play action fake to penny.
The bears intercepted a pass intended for penny when he was split out wide - you can make a case that that's bad for penny, but the idea that they can use him as a receiver like that in the first place is one of the things that gives penny that high ceiling.
The drive penny came in unquestionably sparked an offense that had gone 3 and out repeatedly. Was it because penny was in? Because the defense was playing soft? Could Carson have done the same things? Should they have used Carson more in the first 3 quarters? Those are all fair questions. Saying that the seahawks hurt their chances of winning by bringing penny in, though, is not fair. They scored 14 of their 17 points with Carson on the bench.
djmich
Footballguy
Think we see it the same BF, mostly. Agree team sees something in Penny, its why they drafted him in 1st. I own both players and if I were to bet on the better player long term I'd take Penny pretty handily.
However, in the short term I do think it is completely fair to question if the Seahawks are 0-2 or not because of their mismanagement of the run game. Carson has done everything necessary, including averaging more than 7yrds a carry in week one. Giving him 7 carries that week and 6 this week, is absolutely cause to question the coaching and question if the outcome would be different if they actually did what they said they needed to do...commit to the run game and give Carson the ball. Give Penny 20 carries, I could at least understand that better than what they've done so far.
However, in the short term I do think it is completely fair to question if the Seahawks are 0-2 or not because of their mismanagement of the run game. Carson has done everything necessary, including averaging more than 7yrds a carry in week one. Giving him 7 carries that week and 6 this week, is absolutely cause to question the coaching and question if the outcome would be different if they actually did what they said they needed to do...commit to the run game and give Carson the ball. Give Penny 20 carries, I could at least understand that better than what they've done so far.
