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WR Kenny Golladay, NYG (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Run It Up
- Start date
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
I just wish Marvin Jones wasn’t there. It really hinders Golladay’s 2018 and Jones was no slouch himself last year.
I feel like the main thing that hindered Golladay in 2018 was his hamstrings and being a rookie. Once he got healthier later in the year he was getting starter snaps. I would in fact not view him as a backup, but as one of the 3 starting WR's for the Lions. Marvin Jones was great last year but because he is not reducing Golladay's snaps, is not a really high volume WR and I'm guessing more often then not draws the most attention in coverage that he might actually be helping Golladay.
He was my #1 redraft sleeper. I did 5 FFPC format DE drafts and he was the only player I drafted on all 5 teams. Taking him in round 14-16 range and I could not fathom was he was always so undervalued, especially in a DE format which I think helps his value.
I say was because the last draft I just finished a team who was in a few of my previous drafts and never drafted him when he was kicking in 14-16 round, stepped up and took him in round 12. I still think that's a bargain in that format but I feel like he's sliding out of sleeper range in redraft.
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
If you see it is a posting by Faust it is probably just a standard news blurb or link (although not always).
However, if a player is injured or arrested, someone else usually starts a separate thread on that, because people want to know immediately on breaking news of that sort and don't always click on the latest post of a player's individual thread.
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Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
That's exactly why I was scared. Faust is the breaking news guy. I was sideswiped in the Demarco Murray thread the other day.
I clicked in it, thinking he finally signed with somebody. Nope, retirement.
squistion
Footballguy
With all due respect, I don't think most people here care about Murray's retirement. After not signing with a team, most people already figured he was finished. His value was virtually nil in Dynasty leagues. So, it would have been unlikely anyone would start a thread about that. Golladay on other hand has been generating a lot of buzz this year, so a season ending injury would probably have resulted in a separate thread (as a Golladay owner in several leagues I would have started one).
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
Snorkelson
Footballguy
As a lions fan here how I see it-
1. He has to stay healthy- this is obviously true for any player, but he missed valuable time in his rookie year. He needs to be there in camp.
2. He needs to catch the ball- I don’t know how many drops he had offhand, but he had a few times where he was looking to run before he had the ball.
3. Jones/Tate/golladay will all have weeks where they disappear- but all 3 have the potential to win you a week. Stafford spreads the ball pretty well at this point. Tate will be most consistent, jones and golladay will have the higher ceiling weeks. Ebrons targets will likely go more to WRs than any te on the team.
4. If jones or Tate miss any significant time he has very high potential.
5. He will have some big weeks this year, and in dynasty if he is probably at his cheapest unless he misses a lot of time. Jones and Tate’s contracts are up in the next couple years and he will slide into a starting role (unless he sucks it up this year.) He will be a nice bye week filler this year but is still the #3 wr on the team. We should know what to expect of this offense with the same QB and same coordinator the last few years. Small difference being healthy oline and hopefully a running game.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
You guys are aggressive- wow. I like Golladay and think he can be a very good player, but if he is in the 1000-1200 and 8-10 range, we are talking about a WR1. That seems really really aggressive. If he is that good and that productive than I think it means the Lions are this years elite offense like the Falcons of 2 years ago. I don't think that happens but if the line is better, with a strong QB in his prime, 3 top 30 NFL WRs, one of the better pass catching RBs and a highly drafted RB this would be an unstoppable offense.
If Golladay comes anywhere close to that, than either Jones and Tate got hurt, or Stafford was the #1 overall QB.Ilov80s said:
More likely Golladay has a few nice games, that are pretty hard to predict, and takes a backseat to 2 very proven in their prime WR's. 700-4 feels like a pretty fair over/under in my opinion.
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
I think he has a monster year. He's as close to Megatron as Stafford has had since he left.
If you extrapolate his stats over 11 games last year, over 16 games he would have had:
40 / 693 / 4 Touchdowns
So getting him to 1,000 yards and double digit touchdowns with him actually being on the field isn't a stretch.
You gotta remember, Golden Tate is probably gone next year. And, in my opinion, Marvin Jones is a product of Matt Stafford and not vice versa.
He has the potential to be "the guy" in Detroit.
If you extrapolate his stats over 11 games last year, over 16 games he would have had:
40 / 693 / 4 Touchdowns
So getting him to 1,000 yards and double digit touchdowns with him actually being on the field isn't a stretch.
You gotta remember, Golden Tate is probably gone next year. And, in my opinion, Marvin Jones is a product of Matt Stafford and not vice versa.
He has the potential to be "the guy" in Detroit.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Based solely on height and weight- sure. And Ameer was the closest thing to Barry Sanders then. Come on man.
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
I'm comparing him to a WR Matt Stafford has actually played with. You're the one who is resulting to hyperbole by referencing players from 20 years ago.
They're comparable players who have both played with Matt Stafford.
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Elevencents
Footballguy
Hype train is off the tracks! Should be a nice WR3/4 with a couple startable weeks but I don’t see anything consistent this year. Jones and Tate are just too good for Stafford to look Golladay’s way as much as people are hoping.
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matuski
Footballguy
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
So he's not the closest WR Calvin Johnson replacement Stafford has had since he left? Who was?
Please, indulge me instead of arguing semantics. Who besides Golladay is closer to being Megatron that Stafford has had since he left?
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Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
Who is arguing that? I literally said he's the closest to Megatron that Stafford has had since.
Do you disagree? If so, tell me who is. Instead of making up arguments that I'm saying Golladay is Megatron.
Who is a more similar target Stafford has had? Or do you just want to keep arguing with yourself that there's only one Megatron and bring up Barry Sanders again.
I'm at a loss.
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
Apparently we can't bring up previous Detroit Wide Receivers that have had success with Matt Stafford.
Golladay is the best RZ target and size / speed combo Stafford has had since Megatron. But omg, we can't talk about that because he's not actually Calvin Johnson.
We should just ignore the upside Matt Stafford has shown throwing multiple 40 yard bombs to Golladay like he used to with Calvin...
Golladay is the best RZ target and size / speed combo Stafford has had since Megatron. But omg, we can't talk about that because he's not actually Calvin Johnson.
We should just ignore the upside Matt Stafford has shown throwing multiple 40 yard bombs to Golladay like he used to with Calvin...
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
Kenny Golladay is the biggest WR on the Lions in 2 years.
You are talking about Golladay putting up WR1 level numbers and name dropping Calvin Johnson. I like Kenny's potential a lot, but you are the one being very bold here, not me.
matuski
Footballguy
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matuski
Footballguy
It was silly to compare a shorter, slower, lighter, less athletic, borderline 3rd round draft pick that caught 28 balls last year with perhaps the most physically gifted WR that has ever played the game.
Even if they both played with Stafford.
Right now Corey Fuller is a better comp. And I am am a fan of Golloday.
Even if they both played with Stafford.
Right now Corey Fuller is a better comp. And I am am a fan of Golloday.
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Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
If he keeps catching 40 yard bombs, he does have WR1 upside. Stafford is a lock for 4200+ yards and 550+ attempts.
He made a guy who was average at best in Marvin Jones into a Pro Bowler. Golladay is more talented and a better fit in that offense, imo.
He's going to be the #1 Receiver in this offense whether it's this year or if he has to wait for Tate to leave next year.
Let's wait and see there, boss.
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
Read my original post. "He's as close to Megatron as Stafford has had since he left."
I'm not going to argue subsequent posts when my original posts make it damn clear what I meant.
If you want to argue semantics, be my guest. I'm trying to have an actual discussion.
You can agree or disagree with whether or not he's as close to Megatron as Detroit has had since. That's the context of the argument. Anything else is nonsense and a waste of time.
So do you agree or disagree?
matuski
Footballguy
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
You're an awful person. I never said replacement. I said closest replacement.
Talking to you is a waste of time. You just keep bending words and ignoring my statement that started this entire debate.
Go waste someone else's time.
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
matuski
Footballguy
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
You are though. You're going into a Fantasy Football thread in July simply to troll people trying to have an actual conversation.
You can't just come in here and say that Kenny Golladay isn't the closest WR the Lions have had to Calvin Johnson since he left, without saying which WR you think is the closest.
That's just trolling. You're just coming in here and disagreeing for the sake of making a few jokes. That makes you a bad person because you're engaging another human being in bad faith. You're arguing semantics and not providing a counterargument when the topic were discussing is straight forward:
Who is the most similar WR the Lions have had to Calvin Johnson?
You're going out of your to do anything but answer that question. It's a really mean spirited thing to do. You don't want to talk about what I'm actually trying to discuss. You're trying to amuse yourself by bending the argument in every other direction than what was originally stated.
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
I hope Golladay breaks every Calvin record, I am rooting hard for him. I do think you are discounting Marvin Jones a bit though. Remember Marvin was playing 2nd, 3rd and 4th fiddle at times with Andy Dalton at QB. Not coutning the rookie year and the year he totally lost to injury, Jones averaged 58/764 /7. Then he finally got a QB and a team willing to let him make plays down field and Jones is averaging 60/1048/7 with Detroit.
He was a guy that found a way to produce with a bad QB and a team that wasn't letting him play to his strengths. Golladay does have the potential to be better but that is no automatic thing. Also, when Tate goes, he will be replaced with a skilled slot WR. Assuming the OC stays, that slot WR is too big of a piece of what the Lions want to do.
matuski
Footballguy
@Stuart Ullman Holy Moly. Take a break my friend.
It was a silly post. It's OK. We all have them.
Mods feel free (please do) to delete the exchange.
It was a silly post. It's OK. We all have them.
Mods feel free (please do) to delete the exchange.
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
He is. It's just that Calvin retired 2 years ago, the Lions have only really had 5 or 6 WRs really play for them in this time so it's not much of a pool for comparison. Golladay is a very physically gifted WR and I am still not sure how so many other teams and draftniks missed the boat on him.
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
It's silly because you made it silly. Golladay is the closest thing to Calvin Johnson the Lions have had since he left.
The only silly thing here is your reluctance to telling me who is the closest. Instead of actually answering the question, you're now saying it's silly.
Again, you're wasting my time. If it's so silly and it's so obviously not true, you could just say "Player X is more comparable to Calvin than Kenny Golladay".
But you won't do that since you're just in here to troll and argue.
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
I understand that. Which is why one who is interested in winning fantasy football games might take interest in acquiring a player who is closer to the player Megatron was than anyone else Stafford has had to throw to the past two years.
The logic being, "wow, this kid has the potential to put up even better numbers than all those guys".
That's really the entire point that I was trying to make. Much adieu about nothing. Could have just given me the beneift of the doubt instead of clarifying for almost an hour that Kenny Golladay isn't Calvin Johnson.
He's not but he's closer than anyone else the Lions have had. Which is literally the first thing I said which started this entire argument...
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I mean if we are talking yards, TDs, yards per reception, Marvin Jones is the closest thing the Lions have had since Calvin. If you are talking size/speed combo, it is Kenny. My worry for this year is that he's extremely boom/bust (at least for this year). Stafford likes the deep ball and some weeks it will be Marvin, some it will be Golladay and some weeks he won't connect.
I think the more interesting question is: How did everyone miss him? People laughed and scoffed when the Lions took him in the 3rd round. Then people looked at his stats, profile and all of a sudden it didn't seem so silly. Once people got a look of him on the field, he became this really coveted asset. How did most of us miss? How do we dig up these kinds of guys in the future?
I think the more interesting question is: How did everyone miss him? People laughed and scoffed when the Lions took him in the 3rd round. Then people looked at his stats, profile and all of a sudden it didn't seem so silly. Once people got a look of him on the field, he became this really coveted asset. How did most of us miss? How do we dig up these kinds of guys in the future?
squistion
Footballguy
Which is a statement that says absolutely nothing.
As noted by another poster, Calvin hasn't been gone that long and there is too small a sample of size of subsequent Lions WRs to compare Kenny G. with for anyone to draw any meaningful inferences or conclusions.
The fact that Golladay may be closer than any of them to Calvin, doesn't mean he has Calvin like talent or ability or will put up Calvin like numbers. And I don't believe we have seen enough from him to say anything more than he has the potential to be the best WR the Lions have had since Calvin.
I am a fan of Golladay and own him in 5 leagues (even overpaid in one PPR, trading McCoy straight up for him in May). Yeah, I think he is going to be a good one (probably becoming a serviceable fantasy WR1/WR2 when Tate leaves, or a solid flex start worst case scenario). However, I find your Calvin comparisons hyperbole and a bit over the top.
While I believe the hamstring injury held him back on the field as well as hindering his growth he averaged 43 snaps a game. He only averaged 6 snaps a game less than Tate and each of the last 4 games of the season he outsnapped Tate. So for him to ascend to 1K type of production he'll need to increase targets and probably his efficiency, more so than playing time.
So bad news was he actually was on the field. Good news is you don't need to wait for him to be the starter, you don't need to have Tate leave in FA or Tate or Marvin get hurt. Those things would help his target load but he should be viewed as one of the 3 starting WR's for the Lions.
Tate and Jones are both very underrated players. I think its a pretty big projection to assume Golladay will be as good as either of them, let alone better. Sure he's bigger and faster, but so are a lot of guys who aren't better players. Jones is Donald Driver like, in his ability to get open downfield without having special athletic traits, and make contested catches, and Tate is one of the best WR's after the catch and in small spaces in the entire NFL.
Is it even a lock Tate leaves?
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
I know this is about Jones and not trying to attack you for throwing a comp out but I knew about Drivers athletic history so just had to post this from his wikepedia page: Driver is one of the most decorated track athletes in NFL history (he is an Olympic-class high jumper, being able to jump 7 ft 6.5 in (2.30 m),[4] he qualified for the 1996 Olympic Field Trials and could have likely qualified for the 2000 Summer Olympics team in the high jump.
Marvin Jones is not as fast as Driver, can't jump like him, just not as explosive. But Marvin has good speed, long arms, huge almost Gronk sized TE hands and he's adept at tracking the ball and these are things I think help him excel as one of better deep threats in the league right now.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
All good, no offense taken on my end.
matuski
Footballguy
We good. Like I said, been there.
Huh, I didn't know that about Driver. Learn something new every day I guess.
I was basing the comparison on size, both playing bigger than theirs, and shared consistently underrated status.
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Elevencents
Footballguy
An entire page arguing who is closest to being Megatron between, what, 3 players? That’s like saying the 6’4” accountant is closest to being Shaq because the other two people are of average height. Winning by default usually isn’t winning!
BOT - The more I look into this situation the more I like Jones. Golladay is serviceable, and Tate is as consistent as they come, but I think Jones is the one to own and I’ll be going for him.
BOT - The more I look into this situation the more I like Jones. Golladay is serviceable, and Tate is as consistent as they come, but I think Jones is the one to own and I’ll be going for him.
