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The Patriots complete domination of the off season continues...Are they going 19-0? (1 Viewer)

Saboo

Footballguy
With today’s signing of Dont’a Hightower the Patriots complete, total and utter domination of the off season continues.

How is it that the reigning Superbowl champion can resign a pro bowl lb (Hightower) sign a top 10-15 cb (Stephon Gilmore) trade for a stud 23 year old wr (Brandin Cooks) and supplement areas of need with some high quality low risk signings (Dwayne Allen, Kony Ealy, Lawrence Guy, Rex Burkhead) who if history repeats itself will all be valuable depth additions, while being $31,394,288 UNDER the cap? Think of how much damage they can still do with all that cap money to spend if they so choose.

Did I mention that they not only have the greatest qb of all time still playing at a Pro-Bowl level, and that they also have the second best qb in the AFC East in Jimmy Garoppolo sitting on the bench? The Patriots could trade Jimmy G and continue to pile on to their Super Bowl winning roster.

I truly dislike it when people, especially Patriot fans consider Bill Belichick to be infallible, but the old adage that BB is playing chess while all the other teams are playing checkers has a ring of truth to it at this point. 

If (and it’s a big if at this point) the Patriots could get Malcolm Butler signed they could legitimately be looking at a 19-0 (I don’t say that lightly) season and yet another Super Bowl championship as they essentially have no weakness and have added pro bowl caliber talent to a team that won the Super Bowl last year. 

Is it getting to the point where the Patriots domination of the NFL is going to hurt the league? How are fans of other teams feeling about their prospects next season?

P.S. Apparently the Patriots think there may be something to this talk as they have trademarked "19-0" and "perfect season”over the last few weeks.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/02/02/patriots-trademark-perfect-season-and-19-0/

 
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This is why Pats fans get labelled as tools and are viewed with great disdain by most people not living in New England.
I disagree. I didn’t raise these questions to brag as a Patriots fan or just attempt to be a troll or be a“tool” I think they are legit questions to ask...I think Patriot fans are “viewed with great disdain” because of the simple fact that they win year after year, decade after decade.

I also agree that it may be too early to start calling for a 19-0 season, but if you are objective you have to admit that the SB Champion Patriots are stacked and the with all that cap space and the trade ammunition they have they could get much better before the season starts.

The argument has been popping up over the last few days about the Patriots dominance being bad for the NFL http://www.globalsportscentre.com/are-the-patriots-bad-for-football-nfl-around-the-nfl/

Apparently even the Patriots think this isn’t hyperbole as they have trademarked 19-0.

 
Congrats to the Pats, but the SB win was more of a tank by Atlanta then a win for NE, great comeback but Im sure the Falcons know they couldn't close out what was a win for them. It happens sometimes...

Everything looks great right now and it's been a great run for NE, can't imagine what it's gonna be like when Brady and Bill leave, gotta think it's gonna be a LOT different without them. Enjoy it while you can...19-0 is not happening, but another SB ring might if they stay injury free, we shall see.

 
It's an easy call to take the under on 19 wins and also to take the field to win the Super Bowl.

These are things that look like potential changes from last season:

  • Brady will be a year older and a year closer to reaching his cliff. Which could happen in 2017, though that seems unlikely.
  • Gronk could be healthy and play the entire season. If so, big positive impact.
  • Lewis could be healthy and play the entire season. Should help, but impact will be mitigated given how well White and Blount played last season.
  • Cooks in. Amendola, Floyd, and/or Whalen out? Should be a nice upgrade if he doesn't bring his locker room issues with him.
  • Allen in. Bennett out. PFF graded Bennett as the #10 TE and Allen as the #41 TE in 2016. This is a clear downgrade, although if Gronk is healthy, it probably won't matter much.
  • Gilmore in. Ryan out. PFF graded Ryan as the #16 CB and Gilmore as the #61 CB in 2016. So this does not appear to be the big upgrade some are suggesting... it appears to be a downgrade. Gilmore is definitely better in run defense, but he graded worse in coverage, which seems to matter more.
  • Ealy in. Sheard out. PFF graded Sheard as the #36 edge defender and Ealy as the #78 ED in 2016. They graded Sheard better in every category (pass rush, run defense, coverage). This is a clear downgrade.
  • Burkhead in. Blount and/or Bolden out? Burkhead > Bolden, but losing Blount could be an impact.
  • Vollmer out.
  • Mingo out.
  • Butler out? PFF graded Butler as the #7 CB in 2016, so losing him would be a big loss.
  • Long and/or Scruggs out? PFF graded Long as the #59 ED in 2016, so losing him could hurt.
Note: re-signing Hightower was good, but does not represent an improvement over last season.

As of now, this looks like more downgrades than upgrades with respect to players who weren't already with the Pats. Gronk and Lewis could be upgrades if healthy, but that isn't an offseason move. This certainly has not been "complete domination of the offseason."

The Pats currently have about $26.7M in available 2017 cap space, after reserving about $4M for their current draft picks. However, they could free up another $6.4M by releasing Amendola. IMO they should use some of that money to sign Butler to an extension.

How they allocate that cap money is what will ultimately dictate just how good their offseason has been.

 
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Forgetting about the silly 19-0 talk, we are a long way away from Opening Day, and I would go so far to say that NE is much further along at this point then they usually are. BB makes his money on mid-range players, draft day selections that no one ever heard of, vets playing for cheap, and reclamation projects. So we are a long way away from seeing the final product that will take the field in September.

As for JWB's player comparisons, it's hard to compare players on different teams in different systems. For example, Wes Welker would probably have ranked outside the Top 100 rated WR's playing in Miami, but he blew up in NE. A player like Allen, if healthy, in the Patriots system, could produce more than he did in IND. Gilmore was middle of the road the first half of the season last year but improved dramatically over the second half. Again, are the PFF grades based more on the player or the system? BB clearly saw something he really liked in both Cooks and Gilmore . . . which tells me they both will be used in a way that will make NE better. 

Taking players like Sheard and Long as examples, I don't know what they scored prior to coming to NE, but I would guess their grades were below average and then came to town and did very well. Again . . . is it the player or the coaching / system? BB has had his share of misses, but many times we can take players that didn't do much elsewhere but got them to be productive for the Pats.

So if Butler ends up leaving New England, it's quite possible that in a poor defense without great coaching and game planning he may not rank anywhere near as high. Put another way, who knows how good he would be on another team with a so-so defense and without McCourty having his back over the top. I don't think he would bomb, but I don't think he would be as productive. While a very good QB, I am not sure he qualifies as a lock down CB just yet. I would rather they kept him, but that is starting to seem less likely.

Despite what the comparisons may say, I do think the team NE has built so far is probably better than the one that won the SB. Some of that is due to injured players coming back (which I agree is not exactly making roster improvements). But blending everything together, I do think NE as constituted (or the way they are looking to be constituted) has improved.

 
I disagree. I didn’t raise these questions to brag as a Patriots fan or just attempt to be a troll or be a“tool”
Look again at your thread title. It is all bluster-y and ridiculous. As JWB pointed out, there has been no domination of the offseason. Plus, it didn't need a new thread. So just super obnoxious all the way around. Personally looking forward to Cooks being yet another failed WR experiment (Lloyd, Ochocinco, Floyd). And I highly doubt the oft-injured Allen is worth the 4th round pick and cap savings over Bennett.

 
One thing I think a LOT of people are neglecting to take into account is how good, and healthy, the Pats offensive line was in 2016.  Tough to count on that in back-to-back season.

 
With today’s signing of Dont’a Hightower the Patriots complete, total and utter domination of the off season continues.

How is it that the reigning Superbowl champion can resign a pro bowl lb (Hightower) sign a top 10-15 cb (Stephon Gilmore) trade for a stud 23 year old wr (Brandin Cooks) and supplement areas of need with some high quality low risk signings (Dwayne Allen, Kony Ealy, Lawrence Guy, Rex Burkhead) who if history repeats itself will all be valuable depth additions, while being $31,394,288 UNDER the cap? Think of how much damage they can still do with all that cap money to spend if they so choose.

Did I mention that they not only have the greatest qb of all time still playing at a Pro-Bowl level, and that they also have the second best qb in the AFC East in Jimmy Garoppolo sitting on the bench? The Patriots could trade Jimmy G and continue to pile on to their Super Bowl winning roster.

I truly dislike it when people, especially Patriot fans consider Bill Belichick to be infallible, but the old adage that BB is playing chess while all the other teams are playing checkers has a ring of truth to it at this point. 

If (and it’s a big if at this point) the Patriots could get Malcolm Butler signed they could legitimately be looking at a 19-0 (I don’t say that lightly) season and yet another Super Bowl championship as they essentially have no weakness and have added pro bowl caliber talent to a team that won the Super Bowl last year. 

Is it getting to the point where the Patriots domination of the NFL is going to hurt the league? How are fans of other teams feeling about their prospects next season?

P.S. Apparently the Patriots think there may be something to this talk as they have trademarked "19-0" and "perfect season”over the last few weeks.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/02/02/patriots-trademark-perfect-season-and-19-0/
HHHHHHHOOOOOOMMMMEEEEEERRRRRR

 
20-0... there will be a special game where the Pats play 4 Ditkas and 2 Chuck Norris, down to the wire but an incredible time-warping 78 yard Brady run seals the deal.

 
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Look again at your thread title. It is all bluster-y and ridiculous. As JWB pointed out, there has been no domination of the offseason. Plus, it didn't need a new thread. So just super obnoxious all the way around. Personally looking forward to Cooks being yet another failed WR experiment (Lloyd, Ochocinco, Floyd). And I highly doubt the oft-injured Allen is worth the 4th round pick and cap savings over Bennett.
This time of year is great, as no one can be proven right or wrong. The season hasn't happened yet, so one person can say PLAYER X will have 2,000 yards this year while someone else could say that PLAYER X will be a disappointment and end up losing his job.

Like everything else, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I wouldn't call Lloyd a failure at WR (74-911-4). Floyd was brought in as a body because their other receivers were all nicked up. All they gave up was money, and they could still end up with a late compensatory pick if he signs somewhere else. Ochocinco was a bust, but other guys were decent. Brandon LaFell did pretty well when healthy (74-953-7 his first year). BB saw cook a lot when NE and NOS held joint practices together last year or the year before. He's had a mad man crush on Cooks ever since.

My point earlier in the thread, and again here, is that how a player did on another team is not a great predictor on how well he will do on NE, and how a player did on NE is not a great predictor on how he will do on another team. Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Chris Hogan, and LaFell are examples of receivers that came to town and did significantly better than they did elsewhere. Dion Lewis, Chris Long, Jabal Sheard, Ron Nincovich, Alan Branch, etc. were all guys that didn't do much on other teams and then came to NE and did well or carved out a role.

That being said, we don't know what the new batch of recruits will do in NE. BB has had plenty of swings and misses, but he has hit plenty of home runs too. There is no arguing against the fact that NE benefited from an overall healthy season (except for Gronk), an easy schedule, playing a bunch of Pop Warner QB's, and a weak year for other AFC foes. All of those are likely to change this year. (The Pats are slated to go up against Cam Newton, Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Jameis Winston, Drew Brees, and Derek Carr this season.) If people can tell me which players will get hurt, what part of the year, and for how long, then we can better address if the Pats are a 19-0 candidate (I would say no to that pretty quickly) or a 10 or 11 win team (there's probably more of a scenario for that than 19-0 . . . although I suspect NE will get their usual 12-13 wins).

 
20-0... there will be a special game where the Pats play 4 Ditkas and 2 Chuck Norris, down to the wire but an incredible time-warping 78 yard Brady run seals the deal.
23-0.  The evil genius goes all out to win all 4 preseason games and plays his starters all game.

 
Odds are obviously against it, but they'll probably be favored every week. 

I couldn't care less either way as I have no dog in the fight (I neither love nor hate the patriots) but I do find it funny how some of you get whipped up about a homer being happy with his team's off-season moves.  :lol:

 
Odds are obviously against it, but they'll probably be favored every week. 

I couldn't care less either way as I have no dog in the fight (I neither love nor hate the patriots) but I do find it funny how some of you get whipped up about a homer being happy with his team's off-season moves.  :lol:
There's a Patriots team thread that usually sits on the first or second page of the Shark Pool. If you want to high five other Pats fans in a team thread, knock yourself out. Starting threads about going 19-0 or already awarding NE the SB 52 title are a bit too pompous for my liking, but so be it. And yes, I was the message board police for 10 years.

 
There's a Patriots team thread that usually sits on the first or second page of the Shark Pool. If you want to high five other Pats fans in a team thread, knock yourself out. Starting threads about going 19-0 or already awarding NE the SB 52 title are a bit too pompous for my liking, but so be it. And yes, I was the message board police for 10 years.
Indeed, this thread isn't even a week old yet and was on like page 2: congratulations-sb-lii-champion-new-england-patriots/

 
This time of year is great, as no one can be proven right or wrong. The season hasn't happened yet, so one person can say PLAYER X will have 2,000 yards this year while someone else could say that PLAYER X will be a disappointment and end up losing his job.

Like everything else, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I wouldn't call Lloyd a failure at WR (74-911-4). Floyd was brought in as a body because their other receivers were all nicked up. All they gave up was money, and they could still end up with a late compensatory pick if he signs somewhere else. Ochocinco was a bust, but other guys were decent. Brandon LaFell did pretty well when healthy (74-953-7 his first year). BB saw cook a lot when NE and NOS held joint practices together last year or the year before. He's had a mad man crush on Cooks ever since.

My point earlier in the thread, and again here, is that how a player did on another team is not a great predictor on how well he will do on NE, and how a player did on NE is not a great predictor on how he will do on another team. Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Chris Hogan, and LaFell are examples of receivers that came to town and did significantly better than they did elsewhere. Dion Lewis, Chris Long, Jabal Sheard, Ron Nincovich, Alan Branch, etc. were all guys that didn't do much on other teams and then came to NE and did well or carved out a role.

That being said, we don't know what the new batch of recruits will do in NE. BB has had plenty of swings and misses, but he has hit plenty of home runs too. There is no arguing against the fact that NE benefited from an overall healthy season (except for Gronk), an easy schedule, playing a bunch of Pop Warner QB's, and a weak year for other AFC foes. All of those are likely to change this year. (The Pats are slated to go up against Cam Newton, Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Jameis Winston, Drew Brees, and Derek Carr this season.) If people can tell me which players will get hurt, what part of the year, and for how long, then we can better address if the Pats are a 19-0 candidate (I would say no to that pretty quickly) or a 10 or 11 win team (there's probably more of a scenario for that than 19-0 . . . although I suspect NE will get their usual 12-13 wins).
I agree nothing is certain. I didn't mean to imply I'm certain Cooks will fail, but Brady's deep ball is not nearly the same as Brees'. It will be interesting to see how Cooks is used at the very least. But Lloyd was definitely a bust - relatively speaking. He was brought in to be the deep receiver and Brady just couldn't connect with him deep. He had 131 targets and caught 56%. Not terrible at face value for a deep threat, but when you realize that his 12.3 YPR was the lowest of his career and consider the catch rate of the other guys in that offense with similar YPR, it does stand out in a bad light. If we were talking about Reche Caldwell then sure, 911/4 sounds pretty good, but Lloyd was a very good, although underrated, wide receiver and he was not well utilized despite the large amount of targets. I mean, he put up similar stats the year before in a season split between the Broncos and Rams.  :X

 
If Brady is healthy, no one will beat them.  As long as they don't rest their players, they will go 19-0.  Probably clinch the division in week 12 or 13.

 
Let me sum up my thoughts...

I'm a huge fan of Brady, the Coach (read some books about him and you'll become a fan), and the team culture. This in many ways is tarnished by over-entitled, spoiled and disrespecting homer fans. Nothing more annoying than their fans who don't value how lucky they are or how their team works for what they win. 

I find myself more and more hoping they will stumble just to shut up the fans and give them a little humble pie when they do NOTHING to make this team good, yet they crow and brag and show little humility and gratitude for the perfect storm they were given (QB, Coach, Owner, etc.) The TEAM deserves all the credit in the world for that they accomplished. Their FANs should just stick a sock in it, enjoy their win, and respect the rest of the league

 
They're going to go 16-2.  Losing to the Steelers at Heinz Field during the year and again in the AFC Championship after a 1st round bye.

 
Let me sum up my thoughts...

I'm a huge fan of Brady, the Coach (read some books about him and you'll become a fan), and the team culture. This in many ways is tarnished by over-entitled, spoiled and disrespecting homer fans. Nothing more annoying than their fans who don't value how lucky they are or how their team works for what they win. 

I find myself more and more hoping they will stumble just to shut up the fans and give them a little humble pie when they do NOTHING to make this team good, yet they crow and brag and show little humility and gratitude for the perfect storm they were given (QB, Coach, Owner, etc.) The TEAM deserves all the credit in the world for that they accomplished. Their FANs should just stick a sock in it, enjoy their win, and respect the rest of the league
The newest generation of NE fans don't know loss. They've grown up with tons of championships across the board on all big 4 sports. They are spoiled brats no doubt. I'd gather that this particular fan segment could be over represented here.

Believe me, there are plenty of us that remember the dark years. Hugh Millen, Tommy Hodson. And others like me who remember that brutal game against Oakland in the playoffs during the Steve Grogan era when sugar bear hamilton got screwed on that Stabler sack.

I for one, enjoy every second of this.

 
With today’s signing of Dont’a Hightower the Patriots complete, total and utter domination of the off season continues.

How is it that the reigning Superbowl champion can resign a pro bowl lb (Hightower) sign a top 10-15 cb (Stephon Gilmore) trade for a stud 23 year old wr (Brandin Cooks) and supplement areas of need with some high quality low risk signings (Dwayne Allen, Kony Ealy, Lawrence Guy, Rex Burkhead) who if history repeats itself will all be valuable depth additions, while being $31,394,288 UNDER the cap? Think of how much damage they can still do with all that cap money to spend if they so choose.

Did I mention that they not only have the greatest qb of all time still playing at a Pro-Bowl level, and that they also have the second best qb in the AFC East in Jimmy Garoppolo sitting on the bench? The Patriots could trade Jimmy G and continue to pile on to their Super Bowl winning roster.

I truly dislike it when people, especially Patriot fans consider Bill Belichick to be infallible, but the old adage that BB is playing chess while all the other teams are playing checkers has a ring of truth to it at this point. 

If (and it’s a big if at this point) the Patriots could get Malcolm Butler signed they could legitimately be looking at a 19-0 (I don’t say that lightly) season and yet another Super Bowl championship as they essentially have no weakness and have added pro bowl caliber talent to a team that won the Super Bowl last year. 

Is it getting to the point where the Patriots domination of the NFL is going to hurt the league? How are fans of other teams feeling about their prospects next season?

P.S. Apparently the Patriots think there may be something to this talk as they have trademarked "19-0" and "perfect season”over the last few weeks.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/02/02/patriots-trademark-perfect-season-and-19-0/
It all works because Brady is the QB. Once he retires, so does the model of players taking less money to play for the Pats. Enjoy it while it lasts. It's like playing chess with an extra Queen. Of course you are going to win. 

 
Bills or Jets should throw a party when they are alone in first in the AFCE on Monday. It has to be awhile since that has happened.

 
Bills or Jets should throw a party when they are alone in first in the AFCE on Monday. It has to be awhile since that has happened.
Not when they're both trying to tank. 0-0 tie. No one tries to make a first down. 40 punts.

 
I expect a big "come back to earth" week for Smith and Hunt next week.  That Patriots defense is HORRENDOUS.  I think wet toilet paper would've put up more resistance last night.  Loved it.

PS...Brady looked 40.

 

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