Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
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It may be the early morning hours in the midwest, but that didn’t stop the Minnesota Vikings from making an addition to their roster on Thursday.
The team announced they have signed former Oakland Raiders running back Latavius Murray.
“It was an experience,” Murray said of free agency in an interview with the Vikings’ website. ” Obviously it being my first time, I didn’t really know what to expect but just glad I get the chance to play the game again with a great team with great history here in Minnesota.”
Murray visited the Vikings on Wednesday and didn’t leave town before signing with the team. Murray scored a career-high 12 touchdowns last year with the Raiders in rushing for 788 yards in 14 games with Oakland. He’s gained 2,278 yards with 20 touchdowns and caught 91 passes for 639 yards in three seasons played with the Raiders.
The signing of Murray also potentially closes the door on Adrian Peterson returning to the Vikings.
Not necessarily, but Murray is going to have a tough go behind that Vikings O-line, especially with that upward running style he has. It worked behind that top notch line in Oakland, but not sure it will in Minnesota.Am I dumb to say that I'd rather have Latavius than AP at this point?
So will Denver and KC.I'm going to LMAO if AP signs with the Raiders for less money.
Is he? I don't own McKinnon in any leagues, so don't label me as a hopeful owner, but I'm not ready to write him off just yet. Murray has barely hit 4 ypc behind one of the better lines in the league and he'll be going to one of the worst (see link below). I wouldn't be shocked if McKinnon outplays him. I'll probably be avoiding this situation altogether with the expectation that I'll be able to grab McKinnon off the waiver wire early in the season in redrafts. I might see if I can get him for a late pick in dynasty now.I dont expect great things here. Good signing for Mn as he's now the best back they have, but the line needs to improve in a major way.
Reiff/Remmers aren't elite but should be huge upgrades compared to last year. It likely won't be the same line you saw last year - barring injury.Not necessarily, but Murray is going to have a tough go behind that Vikings O-line, especially with that upward running style he has. It worked behind that top notch line in Oakland, but not sure it will in Minnesota.
No, but I'd take about 10 rookies over either.Am I dumb to say that I'd rather have Latavius than AP at this point?
Fair enough. Do you think Murray is better off in Minnesota than Oakland?Remmers, Reiff and the draft still...All this talk about the line, when will people get rid of rhetoric? This is why we see players dip in drafts and then later that year people say, "I did not see this coming." Now why do people say those things at the end of the year, because they follow narrative instead of prognosticate in a legit way. Last year with RBs like Asiata, McKinnon a bad AP and even Hillman? GTFOH blaming just the line with that mess. They get a better RB and do get an upgrade on the line and people stick to same old "tired lines" if you will, avoid that pun.
Am I expecting lights out from Murray? No, I am not. But I'm not going to be short sighted and think last year has anything to do with this year when new players are on different teams.
I can go to last years offseason and give you the rhetoric and McCoy and DMurray and Ajayi and Freeman and on the other end of the spectrum Gurley? Narrative had the opposite of how those players did at this point last year. Careful how much you but into storylines.
This can go in several directions. Is he looking to win, add stat lines or bank money? No idea what, if anything, Oakland offered him in terms of a contract.Fair enough. Do you think Murray is better off in Minnesota than Oakland?
5-0. Then collapsed.He was sharing a lot in Oakland, sure he had a way better line, but with such few reps what was his value really worth to the team? If we are talking NFL, sure he had a better chance to win in Oakland, but he can contribute more in Minny. In fantasy, its about points. Minny was a decent team, started 6-1 remember, then collapsed. No running game and Murray can help with that. Detroit is not the greatest D and neither is Chicago and now he plays them twice. Packers are not notorious for stopping the run. But playing KC and Den twice? Not that great. He had 12 TDs last year, I do not see that, but then again Minnesota pounds the ball at the stripe a ton too. Asiata scores 3 a game sometimes. I call it a wash in value.
Murray better than any RB in Minny last year, thats including AP who ran 31 times for 50 yards. The line was blocking for terrible RBs. Lots factor into this. I think he is a 200 point kinda guy still in PPR. Bottom end RB1.
You think Remmers (really?) and Reiff are going to help Minnesota surpass Oakland's 2016 in run blocking efficiency? If yes, you're crazy. If no, then settle down. Nobody is saying Minnesota is going to be ranked 30th again - the main point is that Murray was barely serviceable (4.0 ypc) with a good QB and good OL. Bradford and that OL are both going to be mediocre at best next year. That's not rhetoric, that's not short-sighted... that's common sense. Murray needs good blocking, lots of volume, and a bunch of goal line carries (20 for 10 TDs last year) to be fantasy relevant. He'll be lucky to have 1 out of 3 next year.Remmers, Reiff and the draft still...All this talk about the line, when will people get rid of rhetoric? This is why we see players dip in drafts and then later that year people say, "I did not see this coming." Now why do people say those things at the end of the year, because they follow narrative instead of prognosticate in a legit way. Last year with RBs like Asiata, McKinnon a bad AP and even Hillman? GTFOH blaming just the line with that mess. They get a better RB and do get an upgrade on the line and people stick to same old "tired lines" if you will, avoid that pun.
Am I expecting lights out from Murray? No, I am not. But I'm not going to be short sighted and think last year has anything to do with this year when new players are on different teams.
I can go to last years offseason and give you the rhetoric and McCoy and DMurray and Ajayi and Freeman and on the other end of the spectrum Gurley? Narrative had the opposite of how those players did at this point last year. Careful how much you but into storylines.
No. You'd be correct.Am I dumb to say that I'd rather have Latavius than AP at this point?
Right. But AP did virtually nothing in the passing game and was below average in protection. I'm hoping Murray can provide a more balanced game.The question seems to be "Are the Vikings' improvements to their offensive line enough to turn an average back into a good one?"
The answer is "no".
I agree with most of what you said. AP however, is not a complete back.Good signing by MIN. McKinnon is not the answer there. They have a great defense and are a good RB and good OL away from being very very formidable. They may win the division this year. But that all depends on the OL which hasn't had the major overhaul it needs.
I expected them to resign AP, but this signing actually makes sense for them. Murray isn't a complete back like AP was but they don't need one because they have some decent backs to be in RBBC with Murray getting the lion's share
True but what I meant by that was I don't see Murray getting the workload that AP had gotten historically. I see it more split up because Murray isn't the same kind as AP was. I see Murray being used slightly more but similar to how he was used in Oakland.I agree with most of what you said. AP however, is not a complete back.
Exactly. In his prime that didn't matter. But with the necessity of a shorter passing game and the greater need for additional protection, plus his age, honestly he's replaceable now.I agree with most of what you said. AP however, is not a complete back.
Guess it depends on who you're comparing him to but as a runner he looked and performed no better and slightly worse than Washington and Richard. Decent receiving back, but nothing special there either.Yeah I dont know why I even typed 6-1 and I meant 5-0. Thats just a mistype if ever seen one.
Yes, Remmers is better than what they had. Talking about Murray as an average back? lol He is better than most.
Remarks like some above with so much certainty is why people are always wrong at the end of the year.
I actually took this signing as great news for Mckinnon.travdogg said:That line in Oakland was as good as any in the NFL, meanwhile the Vikings were as bad as any in the NFL. Murray is nothing special, and they will find that out very quickly, Oakland made no effort to re-sign the guy.
Honestly, I think its very likely that Murray is unable to beat out McKinnon for the starting job. He'll basically fill Asiata's short yardage role from last year.
Not exactly an apples to apples comparison.McKinnon
2016 -159/539/2 43 255 2 53
2015 -52/271/2 21 173 1 29
2014 -113/538 27 135 41
Murray
2016 -195/788/12 33 264 43
2015 -267/1066/6 41 232 53
2014 -82/424/2 17 143 23
I think the Vikings made Murray an offer around the beginning of free agency. He was checking out some other options. They basically made it known what they were willing to pay for a RB and not more.Bojang0301 said:@Biabreakable Thoughts?
Six to eight years because of one first round pick?hoffman0001 said:All Murray dynasty owners are cursing this news, and he might be soon. A small contract with a team who can't run the ball is not a good deal. He would have been better off waiting for a camp injury to a contender and would have got more on a better team.
The Vikings sold their future down the river for a hail marry when they traded for Bradford. I'd suspect the 2015 division title will be there high water mark for the next 5-6 years. Now they have lost AP, Bridgewater might be lost from reports, and Bradford is past due to have an injury given his history. 10 Bucks says the vikings are last in the division this year.
Not idea why you want to protect last year's line? They were terrible. It is possible that both the line and RBs were untalented.Not I, I can argue the Vikings OLine looked so bad statistically running the ball because of a McKinnon and Asiata and he world beater Hillman not doing anything. Its a legit narrative, but by that logic McKinnon should still suck this year behind that line and shouldnt do any better.
At this point every time someone brings up OLine, I will mention the talent that was running behind it, so you can stop mentioning OLine, and Ill stop mentioning that RB core was the worst.
The Vikings gave up 38 sacks, how many were from the RBs? Murray is a fantastic blocker, McKinnon was atrocious.
The OLine is soo bad and McKinnon is so great, but they are going to draft RBs, maybe 2?
For well over a decade I have been trying to find a way to adjust RB stats for offensive line play. I have never really found a way to do that. Open to ideas if anyone has them.Not I, I can argue the Vikings OLine looked so bad statistically running the ball because of a McKinnon and Asiata and he world beater Hillman not doing anything. Its a legit narrative, but by that logic McKinnon should still suck this year behind that line and shouldnt do any better.
At this point every time someone brings up OLine, I will mention the talent that was running behind it, so you can stop mentioning OLine, and Ill stop mentioning that RB core was the worst.
The Vikings gave up 38 sacks, how many were from the RBs? Murray is a fantastic blocker, McKinnon was atrocious.
The OLine is soo bad and McKinnon is so great, but they are going to draft RBs, maybe 2?
Try reading sometime.....maybe an adult class in the evening? "Now they have lost AP, Bridgewater might be lost from reports, and Bradford is past due to have an injury given his history" Where did I say because of one pick?Six to eight years because of one first round pick?
I guess you have this all figured out.
And where did I say 6-8? you really need that english comprehension classSix to eight years because of one first round pick?
I guess you have this all figured out.
Kind of different situations.McKinnon
2016 - 159/539/2 ---43/255/2
2015 - 52/271/2 ---21/173/1
2014 - 113/538/0 ---27/135/0
Murray
2016 - 195/788/12 ---33/264/0
2015 - 267/1066/6 ---41/232/0
2014 - 82/424/2 ---17/143/0
No, never did but a big time part of a RBBC who is adept at catching passes? Yes, 100%.People still think McKinnon can be some sort of lead back?