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WR Curtis Samuel, WAS (1 Viewer)

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
Saw an interesting blurb but no thread on this particular player.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2703486-matt-millers-scouting-notebook-latest-on-qbs-new-2-round-mock-draft-and-more?utm_campaign=tsiphone&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=teamstream

"Don't be surprised if Samuel goes ahead of Dalvin Cook," is what one scout texted me this week. Samuel, who played running back and wide receiver at Ohio State (the same role Braxton Miller played), has elite skills as a speed player. He can affect the game as a runner, receiver and return man. That value—and teams seeing what someone like Tyreek Hill can do to an offense—has pushed up his stock.
I doubt he goes ahead of Cook but Samuel 'could' go higher than I imagined.
 
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It seems like most have had Samuel as a 2nd rounder since his blazing 40. I think this is also just a sigb of how far Cook could fall. He has more flags than Tianamen Square. 

 
The camp reports are more important to me when he gets on a team.  What exactly is his designation and what are fantasy sites going to list him as?  I like the talent but if he's listed at WR in a Harvin/Cobb type of role then I'm not that interested.  

 
An AFC regional scout ominously brought up Jalin Marshall when asked about Ohio State RB/WR Curtis Samuel.
 
"It's kind of like with Jalin Marshall last year," he said. "How do you use him? He's not a running back and his routes and hands really aren't that good. Marshall went undrafted. Samuel is a better athlete, but they are about the same size and give you the same concerns with how to use them." Samuel is more athlete than football player, and his touches will need to be manufactured to get him into space. NFL Media's Lance Zierlein wrote that he wasn't much of a Samuel fan. "[Manufactured touch] players aren't often coveted in the first round," he wrote. "I could see Samuel going in the second round, but I also think it's imperative that he is paired with the right play-caller who has a good plan for how to use him." 
Apr 14 - 2:59 PM

Source: NFL.com


An East regional scout for an AFC team said that Ohio State RB/WR Curtis Samuel is "not a running back and his routes and hands really aren't that good."

The scout in question compared Samuel to Jets WR (and former Buckeye) Jalin Marshall, who initially went undrafted in 2016. New York subsequently inked him to a contract. "Samuel is a better athlete [than Marshall] but they are about the same size and give you the same concerns with how to use them," the scout said. We feel this is a bit harsh. Other scouts have comped Samuel more generously to the likes of Percy Harvin and Randall Cobb. And while Marshall went undrafted about a year ago this time, Samuel should be solidly in the Day 2 mix when the time comes to get this party started.

Source: NFL.com


Draft Analyst's Tony Pauline reports that Ohio State sources think RB/WR Curtis Samuel will be a Darren Sproles-type player in the NFL.
In other words, a multi-dimensional weapon that can line up in the backfield, shift into the slot when needed and be a dynamite return specialist. At his pro day event earlier this week, Samuel "looked outstanding in position drills," per Pauline. He went through receiver and running back drills and also fielded punts. Samuel, who turned in a 4.31s forty at the NFL Combine, is a Day 2 prospect.

 
Source: Draft Analyst


Ohio State RB/WR Curtis Samuel received Percy Harvin and Randall Cobb comparisons from NFL scouts.
"Unique player," one said. "Physically tough. Playmaking ability." Samuel worked out with receivers at the NFL Combine, but spent most of his time in the backfield at Ohio State. One of his best traits is exiting the huddle in 11 personnel (one tight end, one running back) and motioning out to empty, producing favorable matchups. Samuel tested in the 64th percentile and will be just 21 years old in the NFL. He will be a second day selection.

 
Source: Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

 
It's all about how they line him up.  He's a RB that needs to be used in space, ala Sproles, Brian Mitchell types.  He can get 100-150 carries or so if they minimize pounding him inside.  He is pretty effective, but if he picks up nicks and bumps as guys running inside do he loses his dynamic qualities pretty quickly.  He's also not particularly effective downfield as a receiver, he just hasn't developed WR ball skills and hand/eye.  Jet sweeps, wheel routes, bubble screens.  Tyreek is much more effective downfield, so while he's the "model" as an all-purpose burner, they have to adapt to Samuel's type.

 
I would be very cautious picking him up before the NFL draft, but his value could explode if he falls to the right team. I would love to see him in N.O. for example. Does he fit into the Sproles role in the offense? Cooks? Both?

 
The sproles comp seems right but we should remember it took sproles 3 years before he did much of anything on offense and 7 years before he become a highly valuable player in ff (in non-return leagues).  Granted, teams utilize his style of play more now. 

 
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Typical reactive media, and sure to be a reactive team. "This guy is the next tyreek hill!" has come up so much, because no one saw hills success coming so now there are all these comparisons. Some team will take him too early, and have no idea how to use him, or will deploy him and telegraph their jet sweep, screen, or other, especially if he struggles downfield. We aren't even sure Reek can put up reek numbers, and we're looking for the next one. Whether he's  tyreek, tavon Austin, sproles, or Taiwan jones, for the mid-late 2nd he takes in my ffl drafts there are lots of other talent I have more faith in than a gadget player. 

The main issue with a gadget player is who is coaching them and how they are used. If they get over that hurdle they still have to be good enough. 

 
This makes sense...most of the scouts say that CS route running is poor and Baldingus says he's the best.
That's awful. I guess Baldingus couldn't get anyone's attention with his draft anaylsis, so he came up with something totally stupid hoping maybe someone notices him.

Fantasy wise, this guy is nothing.

 
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The sproles comp seems right but we should remember it took sproles 3 years before he did much of anything on offense and 7 years before he become a highly valuable player in ff (in non-return leagues).  Granted, teams utilize his style of play more now. 
That's not how I would categorize Sproles career. I don't think it took him 3 years to do much of anything, took him 6 but had nothing to with him.  He'd have been good in year one if the Chargers had a plan for him like the Saints and that's the key with all of these gadget players. They need to be in place with a plan and as we saw with Tavon Austin just because a team selects you high does not mean they have a plan.

The issue with gadget players, even when they get paired with a team with a plan, is that their value is tied to that staff/team and that can change so quickly.  That's why I don't like to invest highly in them in dynasty leagues.

 
That's not how I would categorize Sproles career. I don't think it took him 3 years to do much of anything, took him 6 but had nothing to with him.  He'd have been good in year one if the Chargers had a plan for him like the Saints and that's the key with all of these gadget players. They need to be in place with a plan and as we saw with Tavon Austin just because a team selects you high does not mean they have a plan.

The issue with gadget players, even when they get paired with a team with a plan, is that their value is tied to that staff/team and that can change so quickly.  That's why I don't like to invest highly in them in dynasty leagues.
Coulda probably but he didn't.  We agree on the main point, coaching is the key. 

 
That's not how I would categorize Sproles career. I don't think it took him 3 years to do much of anything, took him 6 but had nothing to with him.  He'd have been good in year one if the Chargers had a plan for him like the Saints and that's the key with all of these gadget players. They need to be in place with a plan and as we saw with Tavon Austin just because a team selects you high does not mean they have a plan.

The issue with gadget players, even when they get paired with a team with a plan, is that their value is tied to that staff/team and that can change so quickly.  That's why I don't like to invest highly in them in dynasty leagues.
.... and another thing he has to go to a backfield that has an opening for a 3rd down back or gadget guy. The Chargers had the perfect plan for Sproles at the time.... sit him on the bench until your HOF in his prime get tired or injured. For Sproles first four seasons in the NFL he was on the bench behind Tomlinson and this was how Tomlinson was playing at the time.....

Tomlinson(yards from scrimmage/TD/receptions)

2005 - 1832/20/51

2006 - 2323/31/56

2007 - 1949/18/60

2008 - 1536/13/52 .... his "bad" year in this span

There is a common misconception that Sproles was somehow used incorrectly by the coaching staff over these years but imo anyone taking Tomlinson off the field for any reason would have been an absolute idiot. But my point as it pertains to Samuel is not only do you need a coaching staff that drafts him with a plan to use him but if he goes to a team with a very good 3rd down back he may just get pro-bowled off the field. I mentioned I'd love to see Samuel go to NO but if he ended up in DAL he would drop completely off my draft board because Zeke is such a good 3rd down back.

 
.... and another thing he has to go to a backfield that has an opening for a 3rd down back or gadget guy. The Chargers had the perfect plan for Sproles at the time.... sit him on the bench until your HOF in his prime get tired or injured. For Sproles first four seasons in the NFL he was on the bench behind Tomlinson and this was how Tomlinson was playing at the time.....

Tomlinson(yards from scrimmage/TD/receptions)

2005 - 1832/20/51

2006 - 2323/31/56

2007 - 1949/18/60

2008 - 1536/13/52 .... his "bad" year in this span

There is a common misconception that Sproles was somehow used incorrectly by the coaching staff over these years but imo anyone taking Tomlinson off the field for any reason would have been an absolute idiot. But my point as it pertains to Samuel is not only do you need a coaching staff that drafts him with a plan to use him but if he goes to a team with a very good 3rd down back he may just get pro-bowled off the field. I mentioned I'd love to see Samuel go to NO but if he ended up in DAL he would drop completely off my draft board because Zeke is such a good 3rd down back.
Yea kind of familiar with Tomlinson.

Really don't feel it was a  misconception on Sproles being underused, more like fact. When LT was in his prime early in Sproles career I agree but was not always the case and I absolutely remember Sproles making some huge plays when LT was starting to fade and Norv saying he had to be careful to not overuse Sprolesy(which was exact way he said his name). And Norv was technically correct, you can't overuse him, you just got to utilize him the right way.

LT started to fade in 2008. Sproles got 90 touches that season despite being incredible efficient.

In 2009 LT got hurt in week one. In week two threw it to Sproles 7 times and gave him 10 carries, which is ideal. Next week they gave him 18 carries and 2 catches which is an example of the wrong way to use him. Then LT returned and despite running for 3.3 YPC all season they lighly used Sproles.

Then in 2010 there was no LT and Sproles got used more but more as in like he got used in Philly last year, nothing like his Saints run.

The only coach who utilzed Sproles in a manner which made him a consistent and top 10 fantasy RB some seasons was Payton. Every other coach he played for used him in manner that made him either worthless or emergency RB4/5 type.

As this relates to Samuel and gadget player is again how key the coaching utilization is and how quickly that can change. Saw it with Cordarelle Patterson was well. When he entered the league I knew he was raw, hoped he'd learn nuances of playing WR but I liked him a lot coming in despite that because they had just lost Percy and it was a role he was suited to play. And by the end of his rookie season he was playing that role very well and then Musgrave I believe it was left and again uncreative Norv entered the picture.

Not trying to make this into a Sproles thread I just happened to have this thought a few weeks ago when I was mesmerized watching Tarik Cohen film. Made me think to myself that no matter how good Tarik looks, no matter how much I think he justifies the Sproles comp, it won't matter unless he ends up in an offense that knows how to use him.

 
menobrown said:
The only coach who utilzed Sproles in a manner which made him a consistent and top 10 fantasy RB some seasons was Payton. 
Sproles was RB #10, 22, and 35 in NO with Payton. Let's be clear. Sproles has NEVER been a consistent top 10 fantasy RB for any coach including Payton. Sproles had a solid little career as a RB #30-40 but I don't think any coach held him back from being a consistent top 10 fantasy back no matter what the zeitgeist says.

The reason this is relevant is that a team drafting Samuals in the second round is hoping he has the potential to be a better player than Sproles imo. Of course, Samuals will also benefit from the fact that it's much more common for teams to throw the ball nearly 700 times a game than it was in 2011 and the "3rd-down-back" is much closer to being a two down player now than it was back then. Back in 2011 only three teams were members of the 600-passing-attempts club and in 2016 there were seven of them. By the middle of Samuals career who knows just how pass happy this league could get? 

The only reason I brought up Tomlinson was to point out the fact that Sproles coaches had the deep insight to use Sproles more when the 3.9yards/rush rookie Mark Ingram was starting in front of him. The dumb coaches that didn't know how to use Sproles properly didn't have the insight to sit-down a first ballot HOF Tomlinson at the peak of his career to get the ball to Sproles more often. I am not blaming you for this analysis that has been repeated over and over through the years but it grates on me every time I hear it. And again, pointing out that system is important to the potential success of Samual but falling to a team where there is no obviously better 3rd down back is just as important.

 
Trying to figure out why someone would promote a player who even their staunch proponents describe as a "gadget" player should be the focus of any offense.  The reason gadget players succeed is because they bring a different aspect to an offense that already functions well in its primary activities.  I also believe that FFers often don't quite understand nearly as much as NFL coaches just how valuable strong special team players are.

 
The Panthers brought in RB/WR Curtis Samuel for a top 30 visit.
Let's discuss why this makes sense. Samuel is a runner and receiver type, who was used as a ball carrier and slot receiver at Ohio State with the goal of creating mismatches. That might sound somewhat similar to Christian McCaffrey, who the Panthers have been linked to at No. 8. If the Panthers pass on McCaffrey, they could target Samuel in order to fill a similar role. The Panthers have two second round picks, No. 40 and 64.

 
 
Source: Albert Breer on Twitter 
Apr 18 - 9:33 AM

 
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Sproles was RB #10, 22, and 35 in NO with Payton. Let's be clear. Sproles has NEVER been a consistent top 10 fantasy RB for any coach including Payton. Sproles had a solid little career as a RB #30-40 but I don't think any coach held him back from being a consistent top 10 fantasy back no matter what the zeitgeist says.
 I would have assumed with any kind of thought process going on that it was pretty clear I was referring to PPR.

 
 I would have assumed with any kind of thought process going on that it was pretty clear I was referring to PPR.
I was just using the FBG rankings as a default since we were both posting on this site.

I honestly am not sure how common PPR was in 2005 when he was drafted. Or even in 2011, the only season he has had 1,000 combined yards from scrimmage. It is much more common now though, I will readily admit.

 
A college scouting director said that Ohio State RB/WR Curtis Samuel could be used in a similar capacity to Percy Harvin at the next level.


Harvin is an easy comp for Samuel given their shared position versatility. Said the scouting director, "He’d be a receiver for us, I think, but like you saw with Harvin … I think they’re similar in some ways. You can use him on jet sweeps and different things off motion, like they used to do with Brian Westbrook years back. I like him." A more troublesome comparison which has cropped up several times is that of Jalin Marshall (who went undrafted in 2016), with one AFC regional scout saying that Samuel is "not a running back and his routes and hands really aren't that good." The Ohio State Swiss Army Knife is a probable Day 2 selection, which would have him going off the board on Friday.

 
 
Source: Yahoo Sports 
Apr 25 - 8:03 PM
 
2017 NFL Draft Live Analysis: Fantasy Football Values

Excerpt:

Carolina Panthers: Curtis Samuel, WR – This is with the assumption that many are making where Samuel moves to wide receiver in the NFL. As such, he is elusive with the ability to get back up to speed quickly from stops and breaks. Samuel adjusts well to his quarterback and finds space well, but he does need to develop more. With Ted Ginn gone, Samuel gives Cam Newton a more dynamic option than the big-bodied Kelvin Benjamin and Devin Funchess. He’s a bench option in Fantasy Football though with some DFS appeal in the right matchups. With the McCaffrey and Samuel additions, Newton looks primed for a big bounceback year.
 
Second-rounder Curtis Samuel said the Panthers told him he'll be used "primarily as a slot receiver."

"I’ll be primarily in the slot, but sometimes we’ll both [along with first-rounder Christian McCaffrey] be in the backfield with Cam [Newton]," Samuel said. One of the most exciting players in the draft, Samuel figures to get looks all over the formation to use his speed. "With Curtis, we have 'oh my gosh' speed and he’s really a talented kid," GM Dave Gettleman said. "We feel we've really added an offensive playmaker with him." The Panthers clearly went into the draft looking to add a different dimension to their offense, and Samuel and McCaffrey provide it.

 
 
Source: panthers.com 
May 1 - 11:01 AM
 
Carolina needs a better OC, or a more creative one anyway, to take advantage of these guys. 

It seems like an odd fit for both of them, Samuel and McCaffrey. 

Cam isn't known for his touch. 

 
Ted Ginn replacement makes sense. Samuel is very linear. His best trait is his deep speed
As owner of the Carolina D, I hope he's not as big a wuss as Ginn who would call a fair catch even when no defender was within 20 yards of him. Was glad to see Ginn go.

 
Grahamburn said:
Carolina needs a better OC, or a more creative one anyway, to take advantage of these guys. 

It seems like an odd fit for both of them, Samuel and McCaffrey. 

Cam isn't known for his touch. 
You're right that Cam isn't known for his touch. During last offseason the Big Cat (Richardson) said he wanted Cam to work on his touch on short passes, but the OC hardly called many last season. They would constantly go for long passes when doing some screens and other short stuff would move the chains better in many of their situations. I am hoping that Richardson stresses this offseason to the OC that he would like to see more short stuff. Hopefully Cam will be healthy enough with his shoulder to practice with the new toys during training camp.

 
You're right that Cam isn't known for his touch. During last offseason the Big Cat (Richardson) said he wanted Cam to work on his touch on short passes, but the OC hardly called many last season. They would constantly go for long passes when doing some screens and other short stuff would move the chains better in many of their situations. I am hoping that Richardson stresses this offseason to the OC that he would like to see more short stuff. Hopefully Cam will be healthy enough with his shoulder to practice with the new toys during training camp.
I think he got the memo which I pasted highlight below from this article: Peter King draft coverage, which by the way is a great read even if you don't like Peter King.

In the Super Bowl,” Carolina offensive coordinator Mike Shula wondered the other night, “how many passes do you think Tom Brady threw to his backs? Mostly completed, right?”

Nineteen passes attempted to James White and Dion Lewis. Fifteen completed.

“So maybe sometimes it turns into just a four-yard gain. But I’ll take a four-yard gain,” Shula said.

In the draft, the Panthers did a couple of things to help Cam Newton, who completed just 44 passes to his backs last year while crashing to a 52.9 percent accuracy rate, a stunning 7 points lower than 2015. Carolina drafted Stanford’s Christian McCaffrey and Ohio State’s Curtis Samuel, a couple of versatile backs/slots/receivers with 206 career receptions and 804 career rushes in college. McCaffrey will play running back, slot receiver and wideout (less) and help in the return game. Samuel could become the next Percy Harvin, with jet sweeps and pitches and some field-stretching on the outside. They are potentially going to overhaul how Shula calls his offense, and give Newton some easy completions. “They’re glorified runs sometimes, but they work and it doesn’t matter what you call them,” Shula said.

“I think Christian’s going to help Cam,” Shula said. “In fact, I know he’s going to help Cam. Giving him those guaranteed completions—well, high-percentage completions—you hit it right on the head. With what we’ll be asking Cam, he can get the ball out quicker now.”

 
In the Super Bowl,” Carolina offensive coordinator Mike Shula wondered the other night, “how many passes do you think Tom Brady threw to his backs? Mostly completed, right?”

Nineteen passes attempted to James White and Dion Lewis. Fifteen completed.

“So maybe sometimes it turns into just a four-yard gain. But I’ll take a four-yard gain,” Shula said.

In the draft, the Panthers did a couple of things to help Cam Newton, who completed just 44 passes to his backs last year while crashing to a 52.9 percent accuracy rate, a stunning 7 points lower than 2015. Carolina drafted Stanford’s Christian McCaffrey and Ohio State’s Curtis Samuel, a couple of versatile backs/slots/receivers with 206 career receptions and 804 career rushes in college. McCaffrey will play running back, slot receiver and wideout (less) and help in the return game. Samuel could become the next Percy Harvin, with jet sweeps and pitches and some field-stretching on the outside. They are potentially going to overhaul how Shula calls his offense, and give Newton some easy completions. “They’re glorified runs sometimes, but they work and it doesn’t matter what you call them,” Shula said.

“I think Christian’s going to help Cam,” Shula said. “In fact, I know he’s going to help Cam. Giving him those guaranteed completions—well, high-percentage completions—you hit it right on the head. With what we’ll be asking Cam, he can get the ball out quicker now.”
Am I the only one that thinks this idea of shoe-horning Cam into a Tom Brady offense where he dinks-and-dunks his way down field on consistent long drives is a bit like teaching a grizzly bear to ride a tricycle? Maybe it's been done a couple of times but it won't be an easy or quick transition and a few trainers coaches may get eaten in the process.

 
Cam may be more receptive to the idea than people think. He has been getting abused since the Superbowl. If they don't adjust that offense Cam will continue to take a beating and I think he realizes this.

 
Ted Ginn replacement makes sense. Samuel is very linear. His best trait is his deep speed
This scouting report (which Faust linked earlier) raises doubts about Samuel's ability to be as good of a deep threat as Ginn was in Carolina:

Samuel has more than enough deep speed to stack and separate from corners. But, he’s yet to prove he can be a deep threat. For starters, he can’t track, at all.

This play had everything going for it. Aligning him as a running back in the gun, motioning him out to the slot, forcing the linebacker playing force player to account for him, and just tell him to run straight. The throw is not too long, Samuel just fails to adjust his speed and get under it, eventually not finishing the route and falling short of the throw. Every time I saw Samuel targeted on a go route, this was the result. Unless the throw is perfect, Samuel is unable to adjust his speed or adjust his route to haul in the pass.

 
Am I the only one that thinks this idea of shoe-horning Cam into a Tom Brady offense where he dinks-and-dunks his way down field on consistent long drives is a bit like teaching a grizzly bear to ride a tricycle? Maybe it's been done a couple of times but it won't be an easy or quick transition and a few trainers coaches may get eaten in the process.
It's not that bad of an idea.  He just may need McCaffrey to give him a little push.

 
Gina dropped every other pass so even if Samuel's bad at tracking and adjusting, it's a push.
Yep.. butter fingers thrilled on occasion but fingers were always crossed when the ball was in the air on deep throws to him. 

I'm anxious to see Samuel's YAC abilities, which are probably already better than Ginn's.  

 
Yep.. butter fingers thrilled on occasion but fingers were always crossed when the ball was in the air on deep throws to him. 

I'm anxious to see Samuel's YAC abilities, which are probably already better than Ginn's.  
Samuel won't touch Gina in YAC.  Gina rack up hundreds of yards from the out of bounds strip to the bench.

 
Panthers second-round WR Curtis Samuel returned to practice on Tuesday.
Samuel sat out the first week of OTAs for personal reasons, but he is back on the field and making plays. A dynamic weapon who can line up all over the formation, Samuel could earn a sizable rookie role.

 
 
Source: ESPN

 
Curtis Samuel suffered a strained hamstring at Friday's practice.

This has become a legitimate concern for the second-round rookie. Samuel missed time at minicamp with hamstring issues, so hopefully this doesn't become a chronic thing. Expect the Panthers to lay off Samuel for a week or so and see how he responds. Russell Shepard has reportedly been developing a rapport with Cam Newton in practice and throwing sessions, and he could threaten Samuel's No. 3 WR role.

Source: Bill Voth on Twitter 

Jul 28 - 12:38 PM
 
Is Cam Newton the kind of quarterback they can feed all those mouths? Kelvin Benjamin,  Greg Olsen, Christian McCaffrey, Devin Funchess. Is that offensive scheme able to support Samuel as a fantasy contributor even in PPR?

 

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