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Joined my first dynasty league, any tips? (1 Viewer)

Hu-Tang Clan

Hu-Tang Clan

Footballguy
I've played re-draft since 2000 and have also been in a contract year keeper league for 5 years but now delving into the dynasty format for the first time (draft starts this week). Any helpful tips to start off with? Useful articles, websites, etc? 

 
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Always consolidate into studs if you can. Don't be the guy taking 5 quarters for a dollar even if the value is technically really good. The less starting spots you have, the more valuable studs are, but even all the way up to 14-16 teamers you should still be more worried about your lineup than your bench depth (imo). 

Know your format. Know your leaguemates (take notes over time) and their values/preferences. Zig when they zag, and that applies to valuing rookie picks vs. vets, valuing RB vs. WR, valuing the importance of a top QB/TE vs. just getting by at the positions, etc. Find the value and exploit it. 

Keep an open conversation going with your leaguemates. Email, private chat, whatever. Open a pipeline for sharing values and thoughts on players--most of us are just dynasty nerds who want to talk football--and soon you'll have a network of owners helping you keep tabs on the league goings-on. It sucks to see a guy sold for less than you would have paid if you knew he was for sale...so don't be that guy. Stay on top of your leaguemates and know what's going on in your league, so people come to you with deals or ideas instead of others.

Good luck, it's a blast. Don't get too caught up in who or what the "best sources" are. Just take in all the info you can and create a general awareness about players abilities and values, and add a smidgen of your own talent evaluation on top if you're comfortable with that. Have fun.

 
The place to start for any league is the scoring system and roster requirements. 

Once you get a good handle on the relative value of players (just like you would for redraft) then start considering the fourth dimensional aspects of dynasty, such as the players age and where you see players being valued in the future.. 2018 for example.

It is important to consider the long term as that is the main difference between dynasty and redraft, at the same time do not over value youth and potential, something I see a lot of dynasty players doing. On the flip side of the spectrum you want to be careful of loading up on too many old players who could all decline at around the same time. It is fine (and often a bargain) to have a few older players on your team, just not more than half of them, or you may have some trouble ahead. I would strive for a balance of veteran proven players and younger players with potential. When you have a player nearing the end of their career you should be considering who will replace that player should they fall off and become not useful to you.

I try to load up on rookie picks as much as I can. I will even make some sacrifices to my starting line up to do so at times. Just know that rookie players bust, a lot. So for me, having more shots (more picks) helps mitigate that risk somewhat. I also see draft picks as extra roster spots. The size of your roster (how many players are on team rosters) has a big effect on how valuable these picks actually are.

In the most common format, 12 teams 20 roster spots, the rookie picks after the 2nd round are not that valuable, because you cannot afford to roster too many rookie players with only 20 spots. The picks also have to become better players than what is available on waivers, which is pretty high quality in this format. That said, you can build the overall trade value of your team by adding rookie picks and working the waiver wire when you sell players for picks.

If your roster size is greater than 20 then the quality of players available as free agents becomes worse, and that improves the odds of a rookie player making your team. So the 3rd round rookie picks become more valuable as you add more roster spots.

If you are playing in a league that allows developmental player picks, then this reduces the quality of the rookie picks as often the best prospects will be already accounted for through the devy drafts..

It is pretty hard to answer your question comprehensively as there is sooo many things to consider. Been talking about this stuff for over a decade and I still feel like I am only scratching the surface. I am constantly learning new things and changing my mind about things as I get new information.

 
Hu-Tang Clan said:
I've played re-draft since 2000 and have also been in a contract year keeper league for 5 years but now delving into the dynasty format for the first time (draft starts this week). Any helpful tips to start off with? Useful articles, websites, etc? 
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Tips? Yes, convince your commish to NOT hold the rookie draft before anyone knows where the rookies are going...

 
Biabreakable covers most of the need to know stuff. Questions for you -RULES-Do you do vetoes
on trades?(big mistake). tie breakers?(not a problem if you have decimal scoring). Does your commish
have the power(or willpower) to settle things not covered in your rules? KNOW THIS STUFF. A weak
commish can quickly make any awesome league into a bad one.

 
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Understand your league's scoring system, and the relative value of players with those scoring rules. Dynasty rankings that you find on the web (by folks like FBG, DLF, and ZWK) can be a pretty good starting point for within-position rankings, but depending on your league's setup they might be wildly off for comparing positions (e.g. the value of a TE relative to a RB). You can look at last season's VBD totals for your league scoring to get a sense of relative value (or, even better, cumulative VBD over the past 3 years).

Draft for best player available (rather than for your roster's needs) much more than you would in other formats, especially in the rookie draft (and also to some extent in the startup draft). You don't really know what your roster needs will be 2 years from now when those players finally hit (if they ever do), and you'll have plenty of opportunities to make trades. I also focus heavily on "BPA" in trades - are the players that I'm getting more valuable in this league's scoring system than the players that I'm giving up - with much less concern about my roster's needs. If you have a good sense of player values in your league's scoring system, then try to be one of the more active owners in your league in terms of making trades because every trade makes your team better (in expectation).

It depends on the league, but often the most undervalued assets in dynasty are injured players and future first round (and perhaps second round) picks. So it's good to try to trade for them at a discount, and to be wary of trading yours away unless you really know what you're doing.

If you ever reach the point during (or before) the season where it's clear that your team is not really in contention for the title that year, focus on building your roster for next year. That's an especially good time to try to trade for injured players and future rd 1-2 picks. It's also a good time to try to trade away your vets who only have a couple years left, and any likely one-year wonders, though try to get good market value for them rather than just ditching them for cheap. And you should be especially unconcerned about having an unbalanced roster if you're out of contention - it's okay if you have 8 TEs and a hole at RB if you're just trying to build roster value for the future.

 
higgins said:
Tips? Yes, convince your commish to NOT hold the rookie draft before anyone knows where the rookies are going...
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1. This is actually a fun format (drafting rookies before the NFL), but not for beginners and not for someone who only has the one league.

2. I assume he meant the start-up draft is this week. Lots of start-ups just draft rookie picks rather than specific players.

 
People give up way too early on players. When a WR hits 30, everyone thinks he's old and you can get him at a discount. Same with RB's at 28. 

And, people over value young players with one good year. Heck, last year, Alan Robinson, Todd Gurley, and Hopkins were all bringing a king's ransom. Now? Well, not so much.

I usually try to only look ahead 3 years. So much changes in that time, that trying to predict further than that is usually pretty useless.

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
1. This is actually a fun format (drafting rookies before the NFL), but not for beginners and not for someone who only has the one league.

2. I assume he meant the start-up draft is this week. Lots of start-ups just draft rookie picks rather than specific players.
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We are doing the veteran draft right now, no rookies yet.

 
For rookies, pay attention to minicamps in May and June.

This is good: 'He's catching everything. He's spinning the DBs around like a top' 'He's first one on the field and last one off'. 'He's always in the veterans ear'.

This is not good: 'He's coming along' 'he's doing good'. That usually means he doesn't know what the #### he's doing out there and they realize they drafted a lemon.

I use this for when I am undecided between who to pick in our August drafts.

I watch the youtube highlight videos made by Harris Highlights  and JustBombsProductions Doesn't matter that it's the best of their college plays.

 
How many teams? How many keepers? How deep are the rosters?

That has a lot of bearing  the type of advice I'd give on top of what's already been said. 

For example, in my dynasty leagues, they're "only" Keep 12 (which I don't think is a lot compared to most dynasty leagues) so I know in that kind of format you can't be looking to develop too many rookie prospects from year to year. No more than 4 usually. If you start start 6 or 7 offensive skill position players, you have those 7 starters (that you hope are the studliest studs) and then 5 or 6 other slots to work with. Easily 2 of them are known vets for depth, if not 3 or 4, so don't go into these kind of leagues with a dozen or so keepers expecting to stash a half-dozen rookies from year to year. You have to cut bait on guys (trade or drop) much sooner than any of us might like to but that's what the format dictates. 

Of course, if it's more like Keep 18 or 20, everything I've written has been a waste of your time ;)

 
ZWK said:
 unconcerned about having an unbalanced roster if you're out of contention - it's okay if you have 8 TEs and a hole at RB if you're just trying to build roster value for the future.
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Never have 8 te, never have 6 qbs (assuming start 1). Most leagues roster around 24, use those roster spots for wr/rb flyers. Don't carry a kicker or defense in offseason unless you're required to, use those spots for skill players. Depending on who I have at qb I try to carry 3, I'm not rostering a guy simply because he has a job, although I'll sometimes pick up a guy off waivers if I think I can move one. There always seems to be a team that is thin at qb that will part with a 2nd/3rd for a decent prospect (like osweiler last year). That said I hopefully have 2 decent qbs and a 3rd prospect that can stream or be injury insurance. 

Its hard to find a difference maker at te, so don't roster a bunch of guys there hoping that eric swope suddenly becomes gronk. 

 
higgins said:
Tips? Yes, convince your commish to NOT hold the rookie draft before anyone knows where the rookies are going...
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Everyone acts like this is such a big deal. Just know your rules. Leagues like this the picks after the top tier are devalued slightly but the 2/3 rd picks gain a little value. If you don't like these rules, simply find another league. I personally like the one league I have that does this because it adds some excitement to this time of year, which is usually a pretty dead period. It also makes you take a stance on players, and you actually have to do your homework. Let's face it, any novice can find a list and draft off that after the landing spots are there. It's harder to find media guys who go against groupthink this time of year so most predraft lists look the same. If you do your homework it gives you this advantage that used to exist in the time of magazines and pen and paper drafts, rather than have this "sleeper" you like that has his name plastered all over leading up to your draft or who rockets up draft boards because he went earlier than expected. 

 
Snorkelson said:
Never have 8 te, never have 6 qbs (assuming start 1). Most leagues roster around 24, use those roster spots for wr/rb flyers. Don't carry a kicker or defense in offseason unless you're required to, use those spots for skill players. Depending on who I have at qb I try to carry 3, I'm not rostering a guy simply because he has a job, although I'll sometimes pick up a guy off waivers if I think I can move one. There always seems to be a team that is thin at qb that will part with a 2nd/3rd for a decent prospect (like osweiler last year). That said I hopefully have 2 decent qbs and a 3rd prospect that can stream or be injury insurance. 

Its hard to find a difference maker at te, so don't roster a bunch of guys there hoping that eric swope suddenly becomes gronk. 
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depending on roster size (mine are 20 in FFPC), down to 14 pos in offseason I highly recommend only 1 qb in the offseason, agree on the flyers on rb/wr on your bench. Just saying if you have small roster limits and a 1 qb league I would not carry many. They have close to no trade value in those type of leagues

 
My other tip would be play to win, whether it is this year, next year, have a plan. If your new treat it like redraft and only make different decisions when you are looking at guys at the end (say Fitzgerald, maybe D Murray etc) and only take those guys when they look like great value. I think the number one error people make is to think of themselves as a great prospect evaluator and always look for the next up and coming player. I see too many teams with a bunch of young unproven guys with no plan on how to actually win the league. The goal is not to have the most young players, it is to win

 
Decide how you're going to build your team.

Are you looking to be a WR-driven team?  RB?  Balanced?  Young?  (If so, you could even right now be trading some of your veteran draft pick slots for rookie picks, or some sort of combination.)  Not young?  (If so, then you can do the opposite of "young".)

Knowing how you want your team to look like is good to understand before you make too many veteran picks.

 
Take every advantage you can of other leaguemates who overvalue youth and draft picks, and there are plenty of them in most dynasty leagues.

Also keep on the lookout for other owners who give up on players too easily.  A lack of immediate gratification can bring some potential on board cheaply.

Recognize that talent is talent and strong talent will rise and produce no matter the situation.  Some owners seriously overvalue situation over talent.

As to the advice about consolidating to studs, I've had much more success developing depth than having a small core of bonafide top tier players.

.

 
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Build a base of younger players in your startup draft. There is no point in coming out of that initial draft with Brady, Fitzgerald, and DeMarco Murray. That's a good way to be 3-10 in two years.

 
The # of teams, roster size, starting requirements and if you retain the full roster year to year or only a subset of players are key factors to be considered when determining which tips here will be helpful to a new dynasty owner. 

The tips given already are great but as we've seen they are based on a wide range of league rules. For an example of key differences that drive draft and ongoing league strategy, some define a league as dynasty when they keep 8-16 players where others define a dynasty league as being one where all players (22-25 players in my leagues) are retained until it is time to clear space needed for the rookie draft. As noted earlier this greatly impacts the value of future draft picks because of the quality of players available in the draft pool.  This really matters during the initial draft because future draft picks are often currency used to maneuver during the draft.

Another example is with starting lineup requirements. The initial draft and ongoing strategies will vary differently for start 2qb leagues, start fixed 2rb/3wr or start various combos of positions (like 1-3rbs, 2-3rbs or 0-4 rbs along with corresponding flexible wr's and te's). 

I'm interested to hear your league specifics. Chances are that they follow formats used by others here, so the strategy discussion can benefit a lot of readers. 

On the topic of strategy, an item I haven't seen mentioned yet is the type of team you want to draft - compete now or with an eye to the future. Of course the overall idea of ff is to win, but some like to draft a team that will compete right away while others like to take their lumps for a year or two with a plan for the future.  The team that plans to take its lumps often slides down in the draft to pick up future 1st and 2nd round rookie picks and drafts young with an eye toward building a team that not only competes starting in years 2 or 3 but potentially dominates as those young players mature and one or two high rookie picks are infused (like a top rookie rb) or traded for a stud to fill a key need. 

 
Thanks for the tips so far, they're going to be helpful. Here are some parameters of our specific league since some asked about them:

Initial draft is 20 round veteran and then 5 round rookie. We play the season with 20 roster spots and then drop to 15 in the offseason. We then have a 10 round rookie/veteran draft in the summer to go up to 25 and then cut down to 20 for the season again.

Start 10: 1QB, 1-3RB, 2-4WR, 1-2TE, 1PK, 1DST

 
If the Lions draft ever draft a RB in the 1st Rd, don't use a top 2 rookie pick to draft said player (Kevin Jones; Jahvid Best)

 
I've seen almost every strategy have success.

Got a league where a guy almost never trades, like ever. He's had most success in that league than anyone else and not really close. I've seen teams that are trading machines, not married to any on their roster and always in search of value. Have seen a few of these teams have great success.

I've seen teams go heavy on RB and not only have success but lasting success. It's more difficult, but it happens. I've seen teams go WR heavy, TE heavy and all have huge success.

Some of the better teams I've seen are teams that tank year one of the startup and accrue a bevy of picks. I've also seen several teams draft young in the startup and dominate from year one and for the duration and not have to suck in year one.

I read and article recently that suggested the best plan in dynasty was to target the older players, like 30 year old WR's as an example, because they were great value and if you win year one you play with house money. I'm sure this has worked for a lot of people but oddly enough this is the one strategy that has not worked for anyone in a league I participate. Twice I was in a startup where teams just collected the older players at good value and both times I'm sure if you polled people in the league 90-100% of them would have considered those teams the favorite heading into the season. Both teams did horrible, were some of worst teams in the league and faced multi-year rebuilds with no young talent to work with.

Some of major mistakes I often see or things to avoid:

You will get horrible trade offers. As hard as it may be try and not blast them to much, at least at first. I've had a lot more success trading by not soiling the trade lines with other teams and have ended up making a lot of trades with teams that make appalling initial offers. Along that note never let an initial horrible offer set trade talks, don't get caught up in trap of negotiating down from crap offer.

Don't draft for need. Make trades for need if you have to but don't draft for need.

Don't be that guy who is in love with staring at your roster. At the end of the day it's about maximizing your lineup to score the most points. So I've seen an increase of this with the zero-RB theory which is also code for loading up on WR's. So I'll see teams with 5-7 stud or elite WR's when they can only start 3-4 meanwhile they trot out mediocrity at some other positions year after year and still try and add to invest highly in WR's when they can. I just said don't draft for need,  but this is where you trade for need.

 
Hu-Tang Clan said:
Thanks for the tips so far, they're going to be helpful. Here are some parameters of our specific league since some asked about them:

Initial draft is 20 round veteran and then 5 round rookie. We play the season with 20 roster spots and then drop to 15 in the offseason. We then have a 10 round rookie/veteran draft in the summer to go up to 25 and then cut down to 20 for the season again.

Start 10: 1QB, 1-3RB, 2-4WR, 1-2TE, 1PK, 1DST
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So what you've got is a deep keeper league and not a dynasty league.  I'd put a little more of a premium on youth and on upper tiered players in this type of a league.  You're drafting 10 players to fill 5 spots every year, and of those 5 new spots you're hoping to churn the new guys into improving your 15 player core for the offseason.

 
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Bronco Billy said:
Also keep on the lookout for other owners who give up on players too easily.  A lack of immediate gratification can bring some potential on board cheaply.
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Good advice here. While in my leagues no one dumps the premium-pick rookies, they will the others. I keep a list of young players I'm interested that have shown something, either in preseason or in spurts during the season. But some owners move on if they don't get that immediate production. Off the top of my head I've pulled Antonio Brown and Kelce off my WW after the original draftor dumped them. 

 
Andrew74 said:
Good advice here. While in my leagues no one dumps the premium-pick rookies, they will the others. I keep a list of young players I'm interested that have shown something, either in preseason or in spurts during the season. But some owners move on if they don't get that immediate production. Off the top of my head I've pulled Antonio Brown and Kelce off my WW after the original draftor dumped them. 
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Yeah it will go doubly in this kind of league.  With the limited offseason roster teams will be less likely to try to develop players, especially the strong deep teams.  There will probably be some significant opportunity to trade into slow developing or down season younger guys right before offseason cut downs are due.  It will take some serious discipline though.

 
petekrum said:
Build a base of younger players in your startup draft. There is no point in coming out of that initial draft with Brady, Fitzgerald, and DeMarco Murray. That's a good way to be 3-10 in two years.
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Right. And target the team that does come out of the draft with that type of roster for future year draft pick trades. I play in one league with @Bruce Hammond, and we identified one of our opponents in that situation after our startup draft in 2013 and traded first round picks in 2015-2018. As a result of those trades, we got the 1.2 pick (Gurley) in 2015, the 1.1 pick (Elliott) in 2016, the 1.3 pick in 2017, and TBD in 2018, even though our team has been in the playoffs every season. :thumbup:  

 
Snorkelson said:
ZWK said:
 unconcerned about having an unbalanced roster if you're out of contention - it's okay if you have 8 TEs and a hole at RB if you're just trying to build roster value for the future.
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Never have 8 te, never have 6 qbs (assuming start 1). Most leagues roster around 24, use those roster spots for wr/rb flyers. Don't carry a kicker or defense in offseason unless you're required to, use those spots for skill players. Depending on who I have at qb I try to carry 3, I'm not rostering a guy simply because he has a job, although I'll sometimes pick up a guy off waivers if I think I can move one. There always seems to be a team that is thin at qb that will part with a 2nd/3rd for a decent prospect (like osweiler last year). That said I hopefully have 2 decent qbs and a 3rd prospect that can stream or be injury insurance. 

Its hard to find a difference maker at te, so don't roster a bunch of guys there hoping that eric swope suddenly becomes gronk. 
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One way that I think of it: prospects have no position. If I'm trying to decide between TE Gerald Everett and WR Josh Malone, I'll think about how likely each of them is to wind up panning out, how much they're likely to score if they do pan out, how long it will probably take for me to find out if they'll pan out & how long I can afford to use a roster spot on them while I wait, and how much trade value they'll have at various points in time. But I won't be thinking about whether I'm stacked or thin at TE and WR, because 1) by the time that either of them pans out (if they ever do) my roster will probably look pretty different from how it looks now and 2) if I have to eventually make some trades to rebalance my roster I can do that. This could wind up in me having a 24-man roster that includes Everett, Hodges, Hooper, Higbee, and a few other TEs, and I'm fine with that.

Apparently OP only has 15-man rosters over the offseason, which makes Everett and Malone both pretty close to worthless and means that he's very unlikely to have 8 TEs that are worth keeping over the offseason. The cutdown to 15 means that non-elite prospects are less valuable and studs are more valuable compared to a dynasty league where you can keep all 24 guys. It also makes rd 3-5 picks in the annual 10-round rookie/veteran draft more valuable, because there should be some pretty good veterans in there. I think I'd mostly target veterans in that draft from rd3 onward, treating it like a keeper league rather than a full dynasty league (in other words, like a redraft league but with some bonus for guys with upside who might emerge this season, especially if they're young).

 
ZWK said:
One way that I think of it: prospects have no position. If I'm trying to decide between TE Gerald Everett and WR Josh Malone, I'll think about how likely each of them is to wind up panning out, how much they're likely to score if they do pan out, how long it will probably take for me to find out if they'll pan out & how long I can afford to use a roster spot on them while I wait, and how much trade value they'll have at various points in time. But I won't be thinking about whether I'm stacked or thin at TE and WR, because 1) by the time that either of them pans out (if they ever do) my roster will probably look pretty different from how it looks now and 2) if I have to eventually make some trades to rebalance my roster I can do that. This could wind up in me having a 24-man roster that includes Everett, Hodges, Hooper, Higbee, and a few other TEs, and I'm fine with that.

Apparently OP only has 15-man rosters over the offseason, which makes Everett and Malone both pretty close to worthless and means that he's very unlikely to have 8 TEs that are worth keeping over the offseason. The cutdown to 15 means that non-elite prospects are less valuable and studs are more valuable compared to a dynasty league where you can keep all 24 guys. It also makes rd 3-5 picks in the annual 10-round rookie/veteran draft more valuable, because there should be some pretty good veterans in there. I think I'd mostly target veterans in that draft from rd3 onward, treating it like a keeper league rather than a full dynasty league (in other words, like a redraft league but with some bonus for guys with upside who might emerge this season, especially if they're young).
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This is fine if you're rebuilding from 0 talent, but you're hurting at te rolling out those guys and trying to win.  I like to try to have one reasonable starter and 1-2 upside guys. I get your point, take best player available even if it's your te5 over a wr flyer. I've seen lots of rosters with guys like max Williams, ASJ, Virgil green, Josh hill, Clive Walford, Fasano, multiple Green Bay te, etc. Even the handful of guys you mention, you'd be comfortable with them but none are even close to being a guy that gets 7 targets a game, and could be supplanted next year or never even see the field. Higbee could have been tyreek instead.....

so much controls a te fantasy destiny, an injury on the oline, a coordinator, ineffextive blocking takes him off the field, qb. It's hard to hit big on te

 
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Don't overvalue youth/rookie picks.  That said, if you 100% believe in a player, go for it!  Our startup was the year Mike Evans and OBJ came into the league.  I grabbed Mike Evans earlier than his projections at the time by 2 rounds, and I traded for OBJ after 4 weeks of him being injured.  Those obviously turned out well. I also drafted Cordarelle Patterson 3 spots ahead of Antonio Brown... That didn't turn out as well, but you win some you lose some.

I'm going to second what someone else said earlier, consolidate your talent!  It's important to maximize your starting quality.  It makes your team more risky in case of injury, but overall it's better to have a stud than 2-3 pretty good players on your bench.  Don't forget that if you trade 3 players for 1, you also get 2 more bench spots to fill with potential.  I made a trade last year, I sent 2 players for 1 and picked up Brate, he ended up being the #6 TE last year. So, don't forget, bench spots can be valuable too!

 
Just Win Baby said:
Right. And target the team that does come out of the draft with that type of roster for future year draft pick trades. I play in one league with @Bruce Hammond, and we identified one of our opponents in that situation after our startup draft in 2013 and traded first round picks in 2015-2018. As a result of those trades, we got the 1.2 pick (Gurley) in 2015, the 1.1 pick (Elliott) in 2016, the 1.3 pick in 2017, and TBD in 2018, even though our team has been in the playoffs every season. :thumbup:  
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So you're playing "Fleece the Dummy" every year?

 
You'll very likely find owners who value picks in the current year as much more valuable in future years, so you can likely "move up" in those future years.

Lemme explain...

Say, for example, you have the 3.8 pick in this year's rookie draft and there really isn't anyone you're high on.  Float that pick out for other owners 2018 2nd round rookie pick.  Some believe a third this year equals a third next year; but some believe a third this year equals a second next year or a second this year equals a first next year.

I've done very well over the years following this approach.

 
higgins said:
Tips? Yes, convince your commish to NOT hold the rookie draft before anyone knows where the rookies are going...
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I like holding the draft after the NFL draft but before preseason.  This makes things really interesting because there's some training camp info, and a lot of speculation, but TONS of moves happen during the preseason. We also treat the preseason like the regular season with players locking after games start and a waiver period each week. Makes it important to stay on top of things.

 
Hu-Tang Clan said:
Thanks for the tips so far, they're going to be helpful. Here are some parameters of our specific league since some asked about them:

Initial draft is 20 round veteran and then 5 round rookie. We play the season with 20 roster spots and then drop to 15 in the offseason. We then have a 10 round rookie/veteran draft in the summer to go up to 25 and then cut down to 20 for the season again.

Start 10: 1QB, 1-3RB, 2-4WR, 1-2TE, 1PK, 1DST
Click to expand...
Does this count as a dynasty league?  You can only keep 15 players. Usually Dynasty is 25+.  In this league format I'd probably try to get 3-4 young studs, and then build based on value. There's going to be so much turnover every year.  How many teams are there?  In a 12-team league there will be solid players to be had off the waiver wire most weeks.  I'd probably stream TEs and DEF for the most part.

 
steelers1080 said:
Does this count as a dynasty league?  You can only keep 15 players. Usually Dynasty is 25+.  In this league format I'd probably try to get 3-4 young studs, and then build based on value. There's going to be so much turnover every year.  How many teams are there?  In a 12-team league there will be solid players to be had off the waiver wire most weeks.  I'd probably stream TEs and DEF for the most part.
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12 teams, rosters are 20 players during the season with up to 3 taxi spots.

 
Spike said:
Just Win Baby said:
Right. And target the team that does come out of the draft with that type of roster for future year draft pick trades. I play in one league with @Bruce Hammond, and we identified one of our opponents in that situation after our startup draft in 2013 and traded first round picks in 2015-2018. As a result of those trades, we got the 1.2 pick (Gurley) in 2015, the 1.1 pick (Elliott) in 2016, the 1.3 pick in 2017, and TBD in 2018, even though our team has been in the playoffs every season. :thumbup:  
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So you're playing "Fleece the Dummy" every year?
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I'm saying we made those future draft pick swaps after the startup draft, when we identified that the other team was likely to age out of contention within a couple seasons. The other owner didn't see his roster that way. :shrug:  

 
steelers1080 said:
Does this count as a dynasty league?  You can only keep 15 players. Usually Dynasty is 25+.  In this league format I'd probably try to get 3-4 young studs, and then build based on value. There's going to be so much turnover every year.  How many teams are there?  In a 12-team league there will be solid players to be had off the waiver wire most weeks.  I'd probably stream TEs and DEF for the most part.
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See my post earlier for tips on my Keep 12 league, which sound like they apply to Hu-Tang's Keep 15 players league as well.

 
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Just Win Baby said:
Right. And target the team that does come out of the draft with that type of roster for future year draft pick trades. I play in one league with @Bruce Hammond, and we identified one of our opponents in that situation after our startup draft in 2013 and traded first round picks in 2015-2018. As a result of those trades, we got the 1.2 pick (Gurley) in 2015, the 1.1 pick (Elliott) in 2016, the 1.3 pick in 2017, and TBD in 2018, even though our team has been in the playoffs every season. :thumbup:  
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When this guy bails and if you want some competition invite me.

 
Just Win Baby said:
I'm saying we made those future draft pick swaps after the startup draft, when we identified that the other team was likely to age out of contention within a couple seasons. The other owner didn't see his roster that way. :shrug:  
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that was a seriously preditorial trade... all leagues I've been in have had rules to protect idiots from themselves that would do a trade like that.  Did he quit on the league yet?

 
you can take that as predatory or picking on an idiot, but we all have leagues where some folks prefer youth (seem to be constantly rebuilding), and some folks prefer vets (thinking more "win now over all else"). I don't think it has to mean that the league is not competitive or the owner is an idiot. Different owners prefer different kinds of rosters, and knowing each owner's preference is a key in making trades to better your team.

 
I was mostly just giving JWB and Couch a hard time.

I agree with joey that some owners do not value rookie picks, while other owners (in my opinion) over value rookie picks.

So you find the owners who do not value the picks and trade them players for those picks. The owners who value picks more you send them picks for players.

 
joey said:
you can take that as predatory or picking on an idiot, but we all have leagues where some folks prefer youth (seem to be constantly rebuilding), and some folks prefer vets (thinking more "win now over all else"). I don't think it has to mean that the league is not competitive or the owner is an idiot. Different owners prefer different kinds of rosters, and knowing each owner's preference is a key in making trades to better your team.
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they swapped all their firsts 3 years down the line... even if you're confident in your team you can get totally decimated by injuries and come in last.  It's a straight up gamble and like I said, every league that I've been in has rules discouraging it.  It's savvy to target teams that are weak and look to acquire their future first, it's a good lesson. 

 
cockroach said:
that was a seriously preditorial trade... all leagues I've been in have had rules to protect idiots from themselves that would do a trade like that.  Did he quit on the league yet?
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I don't really agree with the idea of rules to regulate trading, barring collusion. No one has a crystal ball in this hobby.

Also, in this league, any trades of future draft picks requires paying the league fees in full through that future season. That makes it less likely that someone will bail if such trades do not work out.

cockroach said:
they swapped all their firsts 3 years down the line... even if you're confident in your team you can get totally decimated by injuries and come in last.  It's a straight up gamble and like I said, every league that I've been in has rules discouraging it.  It's savvy to target teams that are weak and look to acquire their future first, it's a good lesson. 
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The other team finished as follows:

  • 2013: 7-6
  • 2014: 3-10
  • 2015: 2-11
  • 2016: 4-9
In 2013, he was the first team out of the playoffs, so his team wasn't bad that season. But he came out of the startup draft with key players like SJax, MJD, and Tony Gonzalez, which made us think his team would age quickly.

Also, we didn't just swap picks. We made these trades:

  • Trade 1 (May 13, during startup draft):

    Gave our Year 2013 Draft Pick 6.01 (startup draft); Year 2014 Round 3 Draft Pick; Year 2015 Round 1 Draft Pick (1.11 - Coleman)
  • Got his Year 2013 Draft Pick 5.07 (startup draft); Year 2015 Round 1 Draft Pick (1.2 - Gurley)

[*]Trade 2 (May 13, during startup draft):

  • Gave our Year 2016 Round 1 Draft Pick; Year 2016 Round 3 Draft Pick (1.11 - Fuller)
  • Got his Year 2016 Round 1 Draft Pick (1.1 - Elliott)

[*]Trade 3 (Sep 14):

  • Gave our Year 2017 Round 1 Draft Pick (1.10); Kenny Stills
  • Got his Year 2017 Round 1 Draft Pick (1.3)

[*]Trade 4 (May 15):

  • Gave our Year 2015 Draft Pick 2.11; Year 2018 Round 1 Draft Pick
  • Got his Year 2018 Round 1 Draft Pick

He obviously liked his team during the startup draft and after his first season, and he added 2 3rd round picks and Stills in exchange for the first round swaps in the first 3 trades.

The most questionable thing he did was probably the 4th trade given he had just finished 3-10 in the previous season, but he was trading 3 years out and gaining a 2nd round pick in that year's rookie draft, so he bet on himself to turn the team around. Whereas we bet on ourselves to maintain a roster that would finish in the top 3-4 teams every year, which would keep our draft picks low.

The other owner is still in the league, and maybe he will indeed rebound this season, which could swing the value of the 4th trade in his favor.

I don't really see any of this as showing that he is an idiot as some people have posted in the thread. Turns out he misjudged how good his team was, but hindsight is 20/20. As some have posted, dynasty opens up different strategies and perspectives, and none of them are inherently right or wrong.

IMO this was more a case of Bruce and I being bold in our assessment of his roster and our roster and being willing to take a long term risk. It paid off, but it was a gamble. (I have to give Bruce credit, it was his idea initially, and then we just kept making periodic offers.)

Anyway, didn't intend my initial post to result in :hijacked:  

 
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I do a swap trade every year with a friend. We trade 3rd round picks as a bet of who will do better. If I do better than him, I end up with the higher pick.  We could risk something higher, but neither of us wants to risk our 1st round picks, and I usually trade away my 2nd rounder.

 
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