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What separates intelligent folks from conspiracy theorists? (1 Viewer)

msommer said:
John Nash says hi.

(You are making the wrong point.)
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In fact I'm not.   I never said that conspiracy theories couldn't be intelligent or that intelligent people can't be crazy. What separates intelligent people from conspiracy theories isnt necessarily  intelligence it's sanity    

 
dkp993 said:
In fact I'm not.   I never said that conspiracy theories couldn't be intelligent or that intelligent people can't be crazy. What separates intelligent people from conspiracy theories isnt necessarily  intelligence it's sanity    
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Then you are not answering the OP's question

 
Leaders like Hillary and Trump invite conspiracy theories because they are crooked and there is enough truth to the conspiracy theory to be concerned.   Most conspiracy theories are driven by hate or jealousy of the person and it is more wishful thinking than anything.  

 
I'm fascinated by the psychology around conspiracy theorists.  It has tone some version of paranoid schizophrenia.  A ran into a guy who I knew from 20 years ago and he was into all sorts of crazy conspiracy ####.  I tried talking some sense into him and he didn't want to hear it.  Left me thinking he had developed some mental illness later on in life and needed to be treated for it.  It was sad to see.

 
msommer said:
Then you are not answering the OP's question
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As I read "what separates intelligent folks from conspiracy theorists".  I am.   Now if the OP is inferring something in that question, as it looks like he must as he liked your post, then yes I am.   I didn't read it as he was implying conspiracy  theorists weren't intelligent.  

To answer that question I agree with the posts above there a lot of intelligent  conspiracy theorists.  

 
Higgs said:
I'm fascinated by the psychology around conspiracy theorists.  It has tone some version of paranoid schizophrenia.  A ran into a guy who I knew from 20 years ago and he was into all sorts of crazy conspiracy ####.  I tried talking some sense into him and he didn't want to hear it.  Left me thinking he had developed some mental illness later on in life and needed to be treated for it.  It was sad to see.
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Absolutely.   That speaks to the point I was making.    Sanity is a sliding scale.  

 
A lot of it is lack of life experience and a failure to understand people and processes. I'm all for a good conspiracy but I know people who just think everything is a conspiracy. Couple are a bit crazy, a couple just led sheltered lives and read too many Tom Clancy novels. 

 
moleculo said:
lots of intelligent folks are conspiracy theorists.
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rockaction said:
Nothing. Conspiracy theorists can be highly intelligent. The wording and premise of this is wrong.  
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No doubt there is some merit here. But I think a truly intelligent person (someone who operates at a higher level than myself) can hold two diametrically opposed thoughts simultaneously. I don't think most conspiracy theory folks operate on that plane (though they may be intelligent, specifically in certain areas.)

This is the smartest guy I currently know in my day to day life. He's one of about 10 or 12 pastors in our megachurch. Like all the other pastors (who are all pretty bright themselves) go to him if they have any questions about theology. What I find impressive is he can argue for certain viewpoints that are 180 out from his own beliefs - I've seen him do it. And I gotta say, when you're debating someone, and they feed you back your belief system stated in a better way than you could do yourself, that's pretty #######g disarming.

I don't think people who think Obama is a Muslim who founded ISIS or HIllary runs a child sex ring with the Clinton Foundation could argue for Democratic positions of policy. Just a guess.

 
It's known that politicians are huge liars and they are in it for the money.  It's known that shady stuff is going on:  

As an example:

http://buffalonews.com/2017/04/18/cuomos-income-jumps-renewed-book-royalty-payments/

So when everyone knows they lie, cover stuff up, make money illegally, accept bribery on a daily basis (unless you're dumb enough to think lobbying isn't bribery you must admit this), you can see why people's imaginations would run wild.

 
The need for order. 

Conspiracy theory folks don't like dealing with s world in which inexplicable stuff just happens, where too much stuff is out of control. A small time crazy like Lee Harvey Oswald couldn't have shot a great man like JFK all by himself; it had to be a larger plot. 19 terrorists couldn't have brought down the World Trade Center by themselves; surely our government had to know something about it. Etc. 

 
If this is random, I am an accident.

It used to be that people worked too hard for this all to be meaningless, which is why we got religion and enforced it with guns (or racks, or fires, whatevs).

We dont break our backs for nothin in America anymore. Though we're now able to discard traditional meanings because of that and explosions of personal freedoms, no one has invented new ones yet, so those who require meaning find it in perversions or over-arching conspiracies of a world order that no more exists than holy orders did. Conspiracists are perverts of truth.

 
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I had to do a talk on how conspiracy theories are generated for a trade event.    There have been a significant amount of studies that show that education is the biggest factor in belief in conspiracy theories, but even at the postdoc level about 25% of people believe in some type of conspiracy theory (it's around 50% at high school education and below).  The more interesting part for me is why people believe them and spread them.  There are a couple decent books on it.   The best explanation I've read is that we're physiologically not comfortable with gaps in information, and that when coupled with stress our brains will accept just about any factual overlay that will fill the gap, even if it's "crazy."   We're also hardwired to help alleviate this stress in others, so there's an imperative to spread the factual "solution" to others.    Anxiety+lack of information=conspiracy soup.

 
-fish- said:
I had to do a talk on how conspiracy theories are generated for a trade event.    There have been a significant amount of studies that show that education is the biggest factor in belief in conspiracy theories, but even at the postdoc level about 25% of people believe in some type of conspiracy theory (it's around 50% at high school education and below).  The more interesting part for me is why people believe them and spread them.  There are a couple decent books on it.   The best explanation I've read is that we're physiologically not comfortable with gaps in information, and that when coupled with stress our brains will accept just about any factual overlay that will fill the gap, even if it's "crazy."   We're also hardwired to help alleviate this stress in others, so there's an imperative to spread the factual "solution" to others.    Anxiety+lack of information=conspiracy soup.
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That's what all you black ops types say just to get the masses to buy your energy drinks.  Didn't think we'd catch on, did ya'?

 
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Others have said this already, but it's a need for certainty and the drive for overarching meta narratives that can ties disparate events together. 

Someone who is comfortable saying 'I don't know' or 'I'm not sure' is likely not prone to conspiracy theories. 

Many highly intelligent people are keenly aware of just how much they don't know. They can also hold several (or many) potential beliefs in tension that are contradictory. 

Combine the need for certainty with fear then add a compelling spokesperson and wa-la. And yes, religion can function the same way  

Also it's so much worse now with the internet. People used to have to cobble together newspaper clippings or seek out meetings with others that shared their beliefs. Now they can go to a million different websites and find not only information, but also full blown theories with fully-formed social communities. 

 
Also people who don't understand that stringing together low probability events makes the whole thing far less likely. 

 
I think what drives conspiracy theorists is when they read about massive corruption that went on 50-100 years ago at all levels of government, and they take the next step and assume the current group and embroiled in it as well.  Theres plenty of conspiracy between govt and the mob in the past for example. 

 
I know a lot of educated and intelligent people that are nuts on conspiracies. I think a part of it for some of them is the feeling/desire to be smarter than everyone else or to look down on others. Like they have some big secret and everyone else doesn't. It's weird. 

 
Ilov80s said:
I know a lot of educated and intelligent people that are nuts on conspiracies. I think a part of it for some of them is the feeling/desire to be smarter than everyone else or to look down on others. Like they have some big secret and everyone else doesn't. It's weird. 
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Take a look at this IG post from NASA:

https://instagram.com/p/BTFtrhiBppB/

Amazing discovery! The universe is just mind boggling, how it keeps expanding and we're discovering new galaxies or dying old galaxies all the time. So inspiring.

Now read the comments. In particular, the flat earth folks & complaints of "obviously photoshopped" & "this was done on X-box."

:tinfoilhat:

I'll hang up & listen if you have an explain.

 
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BobbyLayne said:
Take a look at this IG post from NASA:

https://instagram.com/p/BTFtrhiBppB/

Amazing discovery! The universe is just mind boggling, how it keeps expanding and we're discovering new galaxies or dying old galaxies all the time. So inspiring.

Now read the comments. In particular, the flat earth folks & complaints of "obviously photoshopped" & "this was done on X-box."

:tinfoilhat:

I'll hang up & listen if you have an explain.
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I think there are a few different reasons why people get into these weird space theories (whole different sect from the political ones, but surely there is overlap). Yes, the images could be faked, but why would NASA do that and how could you keep the faking a secret for all these years? What is the logic here? I don't think it is logic. It's something different, deep in the personality. A sickness of thought almost. There's a solid chance that all people are no more than cells in a greater body, working in fluidity to accomplish a goal so big that it's irrelevant to our daily motions. In this case, our collective thoughts are what we as people are. We, collectively, believe humans have been to space. However, this minority denies space travel and become this collective self doubt (not unlike the individuals self doubt we regularly feel). Do some people just have an innate desire to be a cancer to humanity? Can we all try to ignore them just as we would personal thoughts of self doubt?

 
Drug or alcohol abuse. (Actually only a partial joke).  I know several highly intelligent people that are conspiracy theorists---and I'd venture to say that 2/3 of them had some issues with drug or alcohol abuse.  Certainly my group of friends is not a large enough sample size to draw any conclusions--but I wouldn't be surprised if drug/alcohol abuse could magnify ones chances of being a conspiracy theorist. 

 
People tend to say really stupid or crazy things when they are motivated to protect their allies or peer group.  Deep down they themselves may not agree with what they are saying but it doesn't matter because their group is under attack so it becomes about showing unity.  

Let's take a fairly intelligent person who has gotten into doing commentary.  Perhaps they discover that if they talk about some conspiracy, they get a big audience.  That translates into money and a successful career.  They go deeper, inviting guests to join them in commentary about the conspiracy.  Now they are part of the group, and eventually something pushes them to defend that group in order to protect their revenue streams and advance their career. Suddenly a pretty smart guy is advocating some pretty crazy things.

 
what defines a conspiracy theory?  What separates crazy ramblings from theories that are actually plausible?

  • rothschild family running all world governments
  • illuminati
  • JFK killed by CIA
  • Nixons associates broke into Watergate Hotel
  • Moon landing faked
  • 9/11 was an inside job
  • Iraq invasion was to line the coffers of the millitary/industrial complex
  • Pizzagate
  • chemtrails/Monsanto
  • Trump conspired with Russians to hack 2016 election
Some of these are more "out there" than others.  In the era of "fake news", what is the difference between plausible and crazy?

 
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