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squistion

Colin Kaepernick Thread and related anthem kneeling issues/news

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1 minute ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

No, it's not disingenuous.  You can't prove collusion occurred.  I can't prove it did not occur nor am I trying to prove it.  The onus is you to prove it existed especially after you claimed numerous times it did.  Companies settle lawsuits all the time to save legal costs, help with PR, and other reasons.  Sometimes they settle because they are guilty too.   I'm not telling you what to believe here but you and Tim can shove an apology until you have some proof and stop telling me how I should interpret a settlement.   And you wonder why people laugh at your nonsense.

Because the NFL paid big bucks to suppress all the evidence with the NDA. Jeez Louise.

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2 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

More like Kaep is Charlie and the NFL is the chocolate factory. 

I like.

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Just now, squistion said:

Because the NFL paid big bucks to suppress all the evidence with the NDA. Jeez Louise.

That's your problem not mine.  But the fact remains no collusion was proven.  You can't argue that (though I'm sure you're going to try)

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2 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

That's your problem not mine.  But the fact remains no collusion was proven.  You can't argue that (though I'm sure you're going to try)

True, the NFL must have paid Kaep multi-millions in hush money just for fun if it because he hadn't proven anything. And if you believe that I got some ocean front property in Arizona I would like to sell you.

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12 minutes ago, squistion said:

So. For $60 million I would guarantee it too.

We have no idea what the amount is.

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1 hour ago, tonydead said:

No, but I'm glad you brought that one up. The settlement with a NDA lets the NFL avoid any trial by public opinion when found not guilty like OJ.  Huge win for them. 

I’m not saying the NFL is guilty, just pointing out that not every civil suit is all about the money as all the anti-Kaepers keep repeating

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3 minutes ago, jonessed said:

We have no idea what the amount is.

True, but considering what Kaep would have gotten in estimated lost QB pay in arbitration, I trust the estimates as to what it cost the NFL to make this go away now, as even if Kaep lost what had been uncovered in discovery and under deposition could have been devastating, plus if he had won, the CBA probably would have been voided costing much more to the NFL than the estimated $60-80 million.

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59 minutes ago, Dedfin said:

Biw that Kaep won can we delete the thread now?

It should stay if for no other reason than to keep the trolls confined to one place. 

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3 minutes ago, Dickies said:

It should stay if for no other reason than to keep the trolls confined to one place. 

They all showed up to this thread tonight. Imagine that. 

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17 minutes ago, squistion said:

True, the NFL must have paid Kaep multi-millions in hush money just for fun if it because he hadn't proven anything. And if you believe that I got some ocean front property in Arizona I would like to sell you.

Still no collusion was proven.  Enjoy your Arizona beach house, buddy. 

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12 minutes ago, Dickies said:

I’m not saying the NFL is guilty, just pointing out that not every civil suit is all about the money as all the anti-Kaepers keep repeating

Thumbs up. And I'm not saying the NFL isn't guilty, just pointing out the NFL has other legitimate reason to settle that seem to be completely lost on quite a few people in here.  

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9 minutes ago, squistion said:

True, but considering what Kaep would have gotten in estimated lost QB pay in arbitration, I trust the estimates as to what it cost the NFL to make this go away now, as even if Kaep lost what had been uncovered in discovery and under deposition could have been devastating, plus if he had won, the CBA probably would have been voided costing much more to the NFL than the estimated $60-80 million.

We don’t have an estimation of the settlement amount.  There’s a confidentiality agreement. 

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28 minutes ago, Epic Problem said:

I like.

Zzzzzzz. Don't you ever come up with new material?  Can you formulate an argument without an insult.  It's like kindergarten in here.  

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6 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Still no collusion was proven.  Enjoy your Arizona beach house, buddy. 

Dude, it can't be proven because of the terms of the settlement and you know that.

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1 minute ago, jonessed said:

We don’t have an estimation of the settlement amount.  There’s a confidentiality agreement. 

Dude, it was on Twitter so that pretty much makes it fact. 

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4 minutes ago, jonessed said:

We don’t have an estimation of the settlement amount.  There’s a confidentiality agreement. 

https://247sports.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/Article/Colin-Kaepernick-collusion-case-settlement-amount-NFL-129142821/

That being said, there are multiple figures around the NFL that have a rough estimate of how much money Kaepernick actually received in this settlement. According to Mike Freeman of Bleacher/Report, NFL team officials are speculating that the former 49ers quarterback was paid in the range of $60 to $80 million. He continued to say that it wasn't an official figure, but all of the speculation voiced by the NFL higher-ups agreed on this range.

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2 minutes ago, squistion said:

Dude, it can't be proven because of the terms of the settlement and you know that.

Yes you’ve said that repeatedly.  So it’s weird a couple of you want an apology over something that wasn’t proven 

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Just now, tonydead said:

Thumbs up. And I'm not saying the NFL isn't guilty, just pointing out the NFL has other legitimate reason to settle that seem to be completely lost on quite a few people in here.  

I assure you, it’s not lost on me. One of my clients was in a major car accident, other party was 100% at fault, but the passenger in the other car died. The deceased person’s family ended up suing my client and the insurance company settled on an amount that actually hit her umbrella policy (which I advised her she should have) for $150k. Boggles my mind that the insurance company settled for an amount that large, but they knew the driver of the car at fault was a deadbeat and they probably wouldn’t be able to recoup any of the legal costs. 

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1 minute ago, squistion said:

https://247sports.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/Article/Colin-Kaepernick-collusion-case-settlement-amount-NFL-129142821/

That being said, there are multiple figures around the NFL that have a rough estimate of how much money Kaepernick actually received in this settlement. According to Mike Freeman of Bleacher/Report, NFL team officials are speculating that the former 49ers quarterback was paid in the range of $60 to $80 million. He continued to say that it wasn't an official figure, but all of the speculation voiced by the NFL higher-ups agreed on this range.

Right.  One guy at Bleacher Report gathered up all of the speculation and teeeted out a range.  Really reliable.

We have no idea what the number is.  There’s an NDA.

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2 minutes ago, jonessed said:

Right.  One guy at Bleacher Report gathered up all of the speculation and teeeted out a range.  Really reliable.

We have no idea what the number is.  There’s an NDA.

It is not just one guy at Bleacher saying this. That has been a consistent range I have seen from other links discussing this.

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3 minutes ago, squistion said:

It is not just one guy at Bleacher saying this. That has been a consistent range I have seen from other links discussing this.

Could you please share them? Not doubting you, just wondering if they mostly stem from Mike Freeman's report. As a side note, apparently Freeman made the news cycle many years back for lying about his credentials.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/2004/01/10/puffed-up-resume-costs-sportswriter-a-new-job/614e71c1-4e6a-40a7-9d2e-dbc1750d69fc/

Edited by TakiToki

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3 minutes ago, Dickies said:

I assure you, it’s not lost on me. One of my clients was in a major car accident, other party was 100% at fault, but the passenger in the other car died. The deceased person’s family ended up suing my client and the insurance company settled on an amount that actually hit her umbrella policy (which I advised her she should have) for $150k. Boggles my mind that the insurance company settled for an amount that large, but they knew the driver of the car at fault was a deadbeat and they probably wouldn’t be able to recoup any of the legal costs. 

So it was all about the money!  Just kidding.  It's my opinion Keap gave up a lot more in the NDA and the amount of money while large to normal people is meaningless to the NFL. Therefore victory to the NFL. And they got it done in the off season so it's not talked about all next year. That alone pays for itself. 

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7 minutes ago, TakiToki said:

Could you please share them? Not doubting you, just wondering if they mostly stem from Mike Freeman's report. As a side note, apparently Freeman made the news cycle many years back for lying about his credentials.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/2004/01/10/puffed-up-resume-costs-sportswriter-a-new-job/614e71c1-4e6a-40a7-9d2e-dbc1750d69fc/

Everything I have read references the same guy.

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2 minutes ago, TakiToki said:

Could you please share them? Not doubting you, just wondering if they mostly stem from Mike Freeman's report. As a side note, apparently Freeman made the news cycle many years back for lying about his credentials.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/2004/01/10/puffed-up-resume-costs-sportswriter-a-new-job/614e71c1-4e6a-40a7-9d2e-dbc1750d69fc/

I just recall seeing this from multiple sources, and I don't recall them all quoting Mike Freeman, although that could be possible. It seems a reasonable figure given what Kaep would have gotten in damages for estimated lost QB pay given that the amount would be calculated by an arbitrator, who has a duty to reach a fair settlement for both sides. It stands to reason it would take an outrageous sum of that amount to buy Kaep's silence, and make him go away and never ever discuss this again.

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8 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

So within hours of the settlement the amount leaked is credible but after two years there’s nothing about collusion.  Good times. 

Straw Man. It was not claimed that the settlement amount was leaked.

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1 minute ago, squistion said:

I just recall seeing this from multiple sources, and I don't recall them all quoting Mike Freeman, although that could be possible. It seems a reasonable figure given what Kaep would have gotten in damages for estimated lost QB pay given that the amount would be calculated by an arbitrator, who has a duty to reach a fair settlement for both sides. It stands to reason it would take an outrageous sum of that amount to buy Kaep's silence, and make him go away and never ever discuss this again.

Come to think of it I can t remember the last time I asked for a link in the PSF and actually got one. Including several the past couple of pages. Hmmm

It's not an outrageous sum for the NFL. To quote s Sho Nuff, that's a falsehood.  They are laughing right now. 

 

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8 minutes ago, tonydead said:

So it was all about the money!  Just kidding.  It's my opinion Keap gave up a lot more in the NDA and the amount of money while large to normal people is meaningless to the NFL. Therefore victory to the NFL. And they got it done in the off season so it's not talked about all next year. That alone pays for itself. 

Perhaps. We don’t know what Kaep got, but I would imagine whatever the NFL gave him is an insignificant amount to them and worth the avoidance of the potential PR hit of a public lawsuit.  Seems like a win for both parties

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3 minutes ago, squistion said:

I just recall seeing this from multiple sources, and I don't recall them all quoting Mike Freeman, although that could be possible. It seems a reasonable figure given what Kaep would have gotten in damages for estimated lost QB pay given that the amount would be calculated by an arbitrator, who has a duty to reach a fair settlement for both sides. It stands to reason it would take an outrageous sum of that amount to buy Kaep's silence, and make him go away and never ever discuss this again.

I truly mean this with no offense intended, but I don't think you're much of a position to estimate what a reasonable settlement amount is. And considering the only sourced estimate thus far is a writer with a proven history of lying tweeting "Number NFL team officials are speculating to me is the NFL paid Kaepernick in the $60 to $80 million range", I don't think we really have much substance on which to base opinions. Certainly this may change.

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1 minute ago, Dickies said:

Perhaps. We don’t know what Kaep got, but I would imagine whatever the NFL gave him is an insignificant amount to them and worth the avoidance of the potential PR hit of a public lawsuit.  Seems like a win for both parties

Agree.  Perhaps I have grandeur visions of what a social justice warrior could have accomplished with a win against the NFL and no NDA. 

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Just now, TakiToki said:

I truly mean this with no offense intended, but I don't think you're much of a position to estimate what a reasonable settlement amount is. And considering the only sourced estimate thus far is a writer with a proven history of lying tweeting "Number NFL team officials are speculating to me is the NFL paid Kaepernick in the $60 to $80 million range", I don't think we really have much substance on which to base opinions. Certainly this may change.

I doubt it will change.  Nobody is going to want to break the confidentiality agreement.

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Just now, jonessed said:

I doubt it will change.  Nobody is going to want to break the confidentiality agreement.

True, but more reputable people may go on the record with informed guesses as time moves along.

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2 minutes ago, TakiToki said:

True, but more reputable people may go on the record with informed guesses as time moves along.

Guesses are just guesses.

How can someone be informed without knowledge of the evidence?  And if they have knowledge of the evidence they are going to be under the NDA.

Edited by jonessed

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2 minutes ago, TakiToki said:

I truly mean this with no offense intended, but I don't think you're much of a position to estimate what a reasonable settlement amount is. And considering the only sourced estimate thus far is a writer with a proven history of lying tweeting "Number NFL team officials are speculating to me is the NFL paid Kaepernick in the $60 to $80 million range", I don't think we really have much substance on which to base opinions. Certainly this may change.

Well I will second your statement with offense. Squid and Tim owes everyone an apology for using this repeatedly in their arguments for an apology. 

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14 minutes ago, TakiToki said:

I truly mean this with no offense intended, but I don't think you're much of a position to estimate what a reasonable settlement amount is. And considering the only sourced estimate thus far is a writer with a proven history of lying tweeting "Number NFL team officials are speculating to me is the NFL paid Kaepernick in the $60 to $80 million range", I don't think we really have much substance on which to base opinions. Certainly this may change.

From Mike Florio of PFT:
 

Quote

ProFootballTalk✔@ProFootballTalk

NFL likely is paying BIG money to keep secret any deposition transcripts, text messages, emails, etc. that may have shown an effort by the league office to discourage teams from signing Kaepernick.

1,565

11:07 AM - Feb 15, 2019

I think BIG money is probably in the $60-$80 million range considering what Kaep would have received in estimated lost QB wages plus damages from an arbitrator. They would have to make it worth his while to permanently buy his silence.

Edited by squistion
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Florio's probably a top guy to have a reasonable guess on this. He has been conspicuously mum on an actual figure or range of such. He has also introduced the possibility of issues beyond just collusion playing a part in the league's desire to settle.

Quote

Win or lose, that information could have been devastating to the NFL, both as it relates to potential proof that the league office tried to discourage teams from signing Kaepernick and/or Reid and as it relates to evidence of people overstepping their roles and/or failing to competently perform the duties of their jobs and/or saying dumb things that would have fueled umpteen news cycles.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/02/15/nfls-settlement-avoids-disclosure-of-emails-texts-testimony/

Just to be clear, I am not stating that I believe the settlement figure isn't very large. Just that we don't have reason to be sure of much yet.

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:lmao: We got the OP saying that the NFL bought his silence.  Can we all agree that is equivalent of big K selling out?  I mean why is it so hard for you guys to look at both sides of an issue?  

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10 minutes ago, squistion said:

From Mike Florio of PFT:
 

I think BIG money is probably in the $60-$80 million range considering what Kaep would have received in estimated lost QB wages plus damages from an arbitrator. They would have to make it worth his while to permanently buy his silence.

It doesn't matter.

Here is the bottom line: Kap went in with a cause. That cause is gone. He took money in lieu of proving his point and he signed (what I am guessing) a settlement that pretty much silences any further dissenting points he may make.  Think about it--if he saw this through--it possibly could have undone the CBA. It would have changed the NFL in ways no one could imagine, but Kap chose the $$.

The NFL (a multi-billion dollar entity) guaranteed this problem is gone, gone, gone.---40-60-80 million is chump change for this problem to be done with.

Tomorrow we wake up---the NFL goes on and Kap never sees the inside of an NFL stadium unless he buys a ticket. All this drama to die with a whimper basically has to be a slap in the face of Kap believers. He made a stand only to have his silence bought. Squis, you deserve a metal for your unwavering faith. :thumbup:

I only hope Kap continues his philanthropy with his new found riches and helps the causes like he has before.

 

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This is what happened with bounty gate and AP, put to the test and forced with the prospect of open court the NFL folded like a cheap tent.

I’ll say this, I’ve defended not signing Kaep from a football perspective but this ain’t that. The NFL is loaded with dough. It doesn’t matter to them.

I’m guessing - ie I haven’t read bip on this - that Kaep is agreeing to keep silent on this. That’s how settlement agreements work. For a 1st Amendment champion this doesn’t reflect well on him. He’s supposed to be exposing the truth, not taking the payoff. Of course it is about money, he claims he was wrongly denied the rest of his career... but he was also supposed to be ferreting out corruption. Or not. 

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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23 minutes ago, tonydead said:

:lmao: We got the OP saying that the NFL bought his silence.  Can we all agree that is equivalent of big K selling out?  I mean why is it so hard for you guys to look at both sides of an issue?  

I’ve looked at both sides of this issue.

One side is racist and dumb. I’ll stick with the other side.

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38 minutes ago, TakiToki said:

Florio's probably a top guy to have a reasonable guess on this. He has been conspicuously mum on an actual figure or range of such.

Florio just stated on his podcast earlier tonight that he would set the over/under at $49.5 million (link)

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23 minutes ago, Courtjester said:

It doesn't matter.

Here is the bottom line: Kap went in with a cause. That cause is gone. He took money in lieu of proving his point and he signed (what I am guessing) a settlement that pretty much silences any further dissenting points he may make.  Think about it--if he saw this through--it possibly could have undone the CBA. It would have changed the NFL in ways no one could imagine, but Kap chose the $$.

The NFL (a multi-billion dollar entity) guaranteed this problem is gone, gone, gone.---40-60-80 million is chump change for this problem to be done with.

Tomorrow we wake up---the NFL goes on and Kap never sees the inside of an NFL stadium unless he buys a ticket. All this drama to die with a whimper basically has to be a slap in the face of Kap believers. He made a stand only to have his silence bought. Squis, you deserve a metal for your unwavering faith. :thumbup:

I only hope Kap continues his philanthropy with his new found riches and helps the causes like he has before.

 

What cause do you think he’s not allowed to talk about now?

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48 minutes ago, Courtjester said:

It doesn't matter.

Here is the bottom line: Kap went in with a cause. That cause is gone. He took money in lieu of proving his point and he signed (what I am guessing) a settlement that pretty much silences any further dissenting points he may make.  Think about it--if he saw this through--it possibly could have undone the CBA. It would have changed the NFL in ways no one could imagine, but Kap chose the $$.

The NFL (a multi-billion dollar entity) guaranteed this problem is gone, gone, gone.---40-60-80 million is chump change for this problem to be done with.

Tomorrow we wake up---the NFL goes on and Kap never sees the inside of an NFL stadium unless he buys a ticket. All this drama to die with a whimper basically has to be a slap in the face of Kap believers. He made a stand only to have his silence bought. Squis, you deserve a metal for your unwavering faith. :thumbup:

I only hope Kap continues his philanthropy with his new found riches and helps the causes like he has before.

Thank you, I guess...

I touched on this in an earlier post, but I think Kaep made a pragmatic decision and probably the best he could under the circumstances.

No matter what the outcome would have been, if he had seen this through, his NFL career was probably over. Irrespective of his talent, he would be viewed as toxic and too hot to handle (so to speak) for any team to sign and deal with the blowback from fans, the media, and Trump.

Assuming he is worth $20 million a year as a starter (based on what he wanted to play for the AAF) and he lost two years of productivity , we are talking $40 million in lost salary plus damages. Let's say best case scenario he gets $50 million, but that is assuming that he wins the grievance hearing and there was no guarantee of that. If the NFL offers him $60-$80 million he would have been foolish to turn down the proverbial bird in the hand.

Plus he accomplished what he set out to do, raise awareness of rogue LEOs, plus racial discrimination and injustice. And in the process he has become an icon for the African American community and a spokesman for Nike with his own line of apparel. Yes, he would like to play QB again, but he is in pretty good shape if he doesn't. He could probably make as much in speaking fees as he would as QB if he wants to go that route.

Plus, I don't really know if he really wanted to undo the CBA. As they say, be careful what you wish for and you are right, it could very well have changed the NFL in ways that no one could imagine and if that turned out to be negative, he would ultimately be blamed for it.

Yes, this was an anticlimactic end to his kneeling saga, but I think I probably would have done the same if I were he, as he had nothing more to prove, unless his intent was to cause serious damage to the NFL and indirectly those in the NFLPA.

Edited by squistion

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11 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:
35 minutes ago, Courtjester said:

It doesn't matter.

Here is the bottom line: Kap went in with a cause. That cause is gone. He took money in lieu of proving his point and he signed (what I am guessing) a settlement that pretty much silences any further dissenting points he may make.  Think about it--if he saw this through--it possibly could have undone the CBA. It would have changed the NFL in ways no one could imagine, but Kap chose the $$.

The NFL (a multi-billion dollar entity) guaranteed this problem is gone, gone, gone.---40-60-80 million is chump change for this problem to be done with.

Tomorrow we wake up---the NFL goes on and Kap never sees the inside of an NFL stadium unless he buys a ticket. All this drama to die with a whimper basically has to be a slap in the face of Kap believers. He made a stand only to have his silence bought. Squis, you deserve a metal for your unwavering faith. :thumbup:

I only hope Kap continues his philanthropy with his new found riches and helps the causes like he has before.

 

What cause do you think he’s not allowed to talk about now?

He's saying that Kapernick's "cause" was to prove collusion and/or destroy the CBA.

I'm not sure if that should be filed under Begging The Question or Moving The Goalposts.

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7 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

This is what happened with bounty gate and AP, put to the test and forced with the prospect of open court the NFL folded like a cheap tent.

I’ll say this, I’ve defended not signing Kaep from a football perspective but this ain’t that. The NFL is loaded with dough. It doesn’t matter to them.

I’m guessing - ie I haven’t read bip on this - that Kaep is agreeing to keep silent on this. That’s how settlement agreements work. For a 1st Amendment champion this doesn’t reflect well on him. He’s supposed to be exposing the truth, not taking the payoff. Of course it is about money, he claims he was wrongly denied the rest of his career... but he was also supposed to be ferreting out corruption. Or not. 

As usual, SaintsInDome2006 is the voice of reason. :yes: 

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8 hours ago, jonessed said:

I doubt it will change.  Nobody is going to want to break the confidentiality agreement.

Stormy Daniels didn't either but Trump couldn't keep his mouth shut. 

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9 hours ago, tonydead said:

Zzzzzzz. Don't you ever come up with new material?  Can you formulate an argument without an insult.  It's like kindergarten in here.  

The idea that Kaepernick has somehow lost his voice because of this settlement really doesn't warrant the time and effort, as minimal as that might be, to argue. 

In saying that, to placate your fragile feelings and obvious need to be shown how wrong you are, here's one.

It makes his voice stronger and gives him more resources to focus on the causes he truly wants to take on. He never wanted a fight with the NFL,. They created thie situation that led to this settlement, not him. And now he gets to reap the benefits from the NFLs insulting, kindergardenish stance they took against him.

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How does Kaep winning his suit against the NFL have anything to do with highlighting what he believes is police injustice?  Honestly not following the logic here. 

Are people suggesting he's no longer free to advocate/protest?  Seems to me he's in a far better position than he was yesterday.  All that's happened is the the NFL paid the price for colluding to keep him out of the NFL without having the proof they colluded released to the public.  Has nothing to do with the issue Kaep is protesting.

What am I missing?

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10 hours ago, squistion said:

https://247sports.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/Article/Colin-Kaepernick-collusion-case-settlement-amount-NFL-129142821/

That being said, there are multiple figures around the NFL that have a rough estimate of how much money Kaepernick actually received in this settlement. According to Mike Freeman of Bleacher/Report, NFL team officials are speculating that the former 49ers quarterback was paid in the range of $60 to $80 million. He continued to say that it wasn't an official figure, but all of the speculation voiced by the NFL higher-ups agreed on this range.

Speculate: The forming of a theory without evidence.

 

Edited by Da Guru

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