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Colin Kaepernick Thread and related anthem kneeling issues/news (3 Viewers)

Reid would make just about every team in the NFL better if  he were on their roster and would fit into almost every NFL defensive system. I can't think of a reason why he isn't signed by someone. He should either be starting or fighting for a starting spot on a dozen NFL rosters.


Because he potentially pisses off half of his potential future employer’s client base?

The NFL isn’t in the business of righting perceived civil wrongs, and there is no right to work in the NFL.  The NFL is in the entertainment business and they make their money by allowing people to enjoy watching a sport and connecting with a team.  A guy can be the most talented employee in the world, but if he choses to use the company and their brand to project a personal political view that alienates half the customer base, it’s bad business to hire them.  

The loss of the size of the revenue pool just can’t justify bringing on the talent - not unless he is a talent so transcedent that he is likely to positively impact the company’s performance so much that most of the alienated customers would be willing to ignore what makes them angry/frustrated/tired of seeing it at an entertainment event.  And like it or not, a safety (or a mediocre at best QB) ain’t that guy.

 
Interestingly, there is no outrage over another entertainment industry black listing outspoken conservatives from getting work... it's called Hollywood. Granted this is a football forum, but everyone is so "disgusted" over someone not getting work as a football entertainer for alienating their consumers. Yet this happens every day in entertainment

 
Dez isn't signed and he's better than most WR2s and even some WR1s on teams... :shrug:  

There are a lot of players who would make an NFL team better, didn't kneel, and aren't signed. Just because one guy fits the mold of this narrative doesn't mean we need to grasp onto it for dear life to try and prove a point and to push this "black balled" discussion that's been beat into the mud about 100 pages ago. 
How long has Dez been a FA? How long has Reid?

The CK situation is different than the Reid situation is different than the Dez situation. Reid is a player that would fit into the scheme of almost any NFL roster and is just entering the prime of his career.

 
Agreed, each team is in the business of trying to win football games. Finally we have found some common ground.


Even that is short sighted.  Losing teams can still be strong profit centers so long as they project an image their fans can identify with and the NFL still is perceived as a worthwhile entertainment event.  Winning records are icing on the cake that enhance profits.

 
Not to mix threads, but I wanted to tackle that last "comment" on Eric Reid:

PFF Grades

Now it's a fair point that the market for Defensive Backs could be called a bit slow... but he has high marks on PFF and is still on e of the top guys on the market who is healthy. No decline here outside of possibly going from borderline elite to merely "above average". You gonna defame a guy just because he protests a social injustice you don't like, at the very effing least pretend you're unbiased and throw numbers out there to support your point. 
The dude was switched to LB because SF thought he was declining. Plus this whole he knelt so he isn't signed this can be blown up in one sentenced. About 100 or so players protested the anthem last year. Many of them are still on their current teams or were signed. Dez isn't signed either? There are people who are out of a job daily because of race. Hell a WHITE FOOTBALL COACH was just fired who coaches a mostly black football team because the school deemed he didn't have enough WHITE PLAYERS ON THE TEAM. Where the outrage for that guy and public forums and world news? People don't want Kaepernick because he's a locker room cancer. There were a ton of problems with Kaepernick before this whole kneeling thing. Success got to his head and there are reports the altercation he and Aldon Smith got into the summer Smith was cut was over Kaepernick's GF who had been dating Aldon and he didn't know she was going behind his back with CK. Vernon Davis asked for a trade from SF do to the team babying the guy. The dude sucks at his position too. I think the whole CK thing is blown out of proportion. Like Greg Jennings said yesterday Kaepenrick seems like a guy as well as Eric Reid who aren't signed and think they are entitled. So they blame others instead of lowering their demands on a contract. Kaepernick isn't signed do to contract demands. It's come out that Reid thinks he's worth more then what teams think he is right now. This is all about money nothing about protest. it's just an easy out. It's your typical employee using the race card or disabilities card who doesn't do their work well so they pull this out rather then be held accountable for their own actions. 

 
Interestingly, there is no outrage over another entertainment industry black listing outspoken conservatives from getting work... it's called Hollywood. Granted this is a football forum, but everyone is so "disgusted" over someone not getting work as a football entertainer for alienating their consumers. Yet this happens every day in entertainment
Jason Whitlock and Greg Jennings yesterday said Reid's issue is about what he believes he's worth compared to what teams think he's worth. Also questioning someone about doing something is within their right. They want to know if you have a plan for this. 3rd Eric Reid and CK left the Players Coalition who was trying to work out and agree to stuff with NFL owners. CK and Eric Reid threw a fit about it and didn't want to cooperate. Both even accused their breathern of lying to them. Not sure that sits well with other NFL players. We can look back at the Martin situation with Incognito. people thought RI went too far but many players said they wouldn't play with a guy like Martin who throws dirty laundry into the public so willingly. 

 
The dude was switched to LB because SF thought he was declining. Plus this whole he knelt so he isn't signed this can be blown up in one sentenced. About 100 or so players protested the anthem last year. Many of them are still on their current teams or were signed. Dez isn't signed either? There are people who are out of a job daily because of race. Hell a WHITE FOOTBALL COACH was just fired who coaches a mostly black football team because the school deemed he didn't have enough WHITE PLAYERS ON THE TEAM. Where the outrage for that guy and public forums and world news? People don't want Kaepernick because he's a locker room cancer. There were a ton of problems with Kaepernick before this whole kneeling thing. Success got to his head and there are reports the altercation he and Aldon Smith got into the summer Smith was cut was over Kaepernick's GF who had been dating Aldon and he didn't know she was going behind his back with CK. Vernon Davis asked for a trade from SF do to the team babying the guy. The dude sucks at his position too. I think the whole CK thing is blown out of proportion. Like Greg Jennings said yesterday Kaepenrick seems like a guy as well as Eric Reid who aren't signed and think they are entitled. So they blame others instead of lowering their demands on a contract. Kaepernick isn't signed do to contract demands. It's come out that Reid thinks he's worth more then what teams think he is right now. This is all about money nothing about protest. it's just an easy out. It's your typical employee using the race card or disabilities card who doesn't do their work well so they pull this out rather then be held accountable for their own actions. 
Yes. It's equivalent to a story I heard of a black man trying to order french fries at a Taco Bell. When he was told they did not make french fries, he called them racist for not selling him french fries. 

When you don't get what you want, instead of admitting that you yourself may be wrong, you blame everyone/something else and/or race. Seems to be a common theme these days from people who lose or don't get what they want because they've over-estimated their appeal or value in their choice of professions. 

 
And here we go again.  So what is the explanation for Kenny Vaccaro not having a job?  Or Tre Boston?  Even the king of the Kaep hype - Mike Florio - concedes that both are better players than Reid.  For the record I don't put much faith in Florio's talent evaluation but it appears that a lot of people here afford his opinions great weight.

If I'm an NFL player I would kneel for the first few games this year.  That way, if I became a free agent and can't find a job, I can blame it on the racist owners and fans rather than my lack of skill.

I would wager that it has more to do with a weak Safety market, Reid likely asking for too much, and teams having the ability to be picky with who they sign.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/nfl-safety-free-agents-best-available-tre-boston-eric-reid-kenny-vaccaro/7mvhjumemrdp1vhe0nptkfg62

 
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Even that is short sighted.  Losing teams can still be strong profit centers so long as they project an image their fans can identify with and the NFL still is perceived as a worthwhile entertainment event.  Winning records are icing on the cake that enhance profits.
What teams in the NFL are not profit centers? Or is your argument that signing Reid would tarnish the image of a team more than...

- assaulting a police officer

- multiple drug offenses

- brandishing unregistered firearms in public

- threatening the life/beating up a girlfriend

- discharging firearms in public

- vandalism

- vehicular reckless endangerment(speed)

- petty theft

- making bomb threats at an airport

- DUI

- hit-and-run

- evading police

- dog fighting

- VEHICULAR MANSLAUGHTER WHILE DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE

How many teams that have had a guy with one of(or several) of these infractions on their record? Are all of those teams failing to make a profit? Are ANY of them?

I didn't really think it was controversial to say NFL owners wanted to win games. But if it is, I'll crawl out on that branch by myself.

 
Dr. Dan said:
Yes. It's equivalent to a story I heard of a black man trying to order french fries at a Taco Bell. When he was told they did not make french fries, he called them racist for not selling him french fries. 

When you don't get what you want, instead of admitting that you yourself may be wrong, you blame everyone/something else and/or race. Seems to be a common theme these days from people who lose or don't get what they want because they've over-estimated their appeal or value in their choice of professions. 
There's a crazy fat ##### at my work my age (29-30) she should be in a mental hospital 24-7. She uses threats on my Store director and even threatens to call her lawyer. She now out do to "another issue". I think with in the last 5 yrs she's been out at least 3 1/2 of them. Her husband is Hispanic and I won't even get into the stuff she says about him. He's also went blind out of no where so she has to do everything for him. She's your typical I don't want to be held accountable for my actions so I'm gonna use the disabilities card. Only thing missing from her is if she was black and we'd have a double whammy. 

Another guy at my Job black lied about stuff he use to do. Kicked out of a department do to talking too much and not doing work. Accused the department manager of racism. This dude would stop to talk to anyone with long hair and a set of ####. Dude was finally let go for job abandonment. The problem is the punishment for false accusations isn't hard enough. Also lazy people not being want to be held accountable for their actions. 

 
wakelawyer said:
And here we go again.  So what is the explanation for Kenny Vaccaro not having a job?  Or Tre Boston?  Even the king of the Kaep hype - Mike Florio - concedes that both are better players than Reid.  For the record I don't put much faith in Florio's talent evaluation but it appears that a lot of people here afford his opinions great weight.

If I'm an NFL player I would kneel for the first few games this year.  That way, if I became a free agent and can't find a job, I can blame it on the racist owners and fans rather than my lack of skill.

I would wager that it has more to do with a weak Safety market, Reid likely asking for too much, and teams having the ability to be picky with who they sign.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/nfl-safety-free-agents-best-available-tre-boston-eric-reid-kenny-vaccaro/7mvhjumemrdp1vhe0nptkfg62
My thought when Kaepernick first did this was he was looking for a way to keep his job. None of it seemed genuine. Then all the stuff about his GF and her tweets. All seems fake. Doesn't seem to care one bit about playing football at all. Just trying to find an easy way to money. The GF is a complete locker room rat too. 

 
daveR said:
IMO, they blew it. On a silver platter, they (as well as Trump) were handed an opportunity to say, "Racism has no place in the NFL (America)."  Simple as that & they are the good guys.  
Are you surprised by Trump? This is a guy who called White Supremacist people in Charlottesville, WV very fine people. You are asking for too much there. 

 
Are you surprised by Trump? This is a guy who called White Supremacist people in Charlottesville, WV very fine people. You are asking for too much there. 
Can you imagine how this would have played out if he had simply stepped forward like the leader he's supposed to be and said, "There is no place in America for racism!"

 
... wow. Did not expected that many comments

Reid really is a bit of a different situation (which I pointed out) so I dunno why he was lumped in a Colin Kaepernick PLAYER thread. 

 
Can you imagine how this would have played out if he had simply stepped forward like the leader he's supposed to be and said, "There is no place in America for racism!"
Oh I can see how it'd play out but remember Trump plays on the emotions of his supporters. In this case "their patriotism". It's no different then how the NRA uses fear tactics for gun rights. Play up to your supporters fears or biggest causes but don't give them anything you promised. 

 
... wow. Did not expected that many comments

Reid really is a bit of a different situation (which I pointed out) so I dunno why he was lumped in a Colin Kaepernick PLAYER thread. 
Reid was CK's biggest supporter player wise. Both went rogue and left the players coalition. If Kaepernick was the president of the whole kneeling then Reid is VP. Both aren't signed because they deem their value contract wise is more then what people around the league think. I think the situations are more similar then you think. 

 
Yes, I am sure this will settle the issue and make the NFLPA happy.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/05/06/report-nfl-may-delegate-anthem-policy-to-individual-teams/

Report: NFL may delegate anthem policy to individual teams

Posted by Mike Florio on May 6, 2018, 2:34 PM EDT

The NFL has said that players may protest during the anthem. Some teams have, as a practical matter, applied a different approach, discouraging and/or flat-out stating that players will not kneel. Soon, it could be for the teams to formally craft their own policies regarding whether players will be required to stand during the anthem.

Mark Maske of the Washington Post reports that the NFL may give teams the ability to create their own anthem policies.

Dubbed a “compromise” in the report, the NFL Players Association may not see it that way. As explained last month, the NFL gave players the right to protest during the national anthem. The league confirmed that right after Colin Kaepernick began his protests in 2016, and the NFL reiterated that right when the issue hit the fan with a flourish in 2017. Thus, as a matter of labor law, it may be impossible at this point for the NFL to unilaterally change the anthem policy by letting teams decide whether to rescind the players’ league-given right to protest.

Of course, the NFL can change the policy, if it wants. The question would then become whether the NFLPA would fight any change to the policy via the available legal channels, arguing that the issue has morphed into a mandatory subject of collective bargaining.

So it’s hardly a compromise to give the teams the power to tell players not to kneel. It could end up instead being a powderkeg, at a time when the issue has largely subsided, but for the pending Kaepernick and Eric Reid collusion grievances

 
Underachievers said:
Let teams decide.   We will then see which are American and which aren't.  
NFL just wants to keep all of the Department of Defense money they get for trotting the players out during The Anthem.  If they make it a team issue, they can still keep the money. 

 
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/05/21/kaepernick-collusion-case-proving-that-teams-viewed-him-as-a-starting-quarterback/

Kaepernick collusion case proving that teams viewed him as a starting quarterback

Posted by Mike Florio on May 21, 2018, 5:55 AM EDT

Remember when quarterback Colin Kaepernick initially went unsigned after becoming a free agent in March 2017? Remember the false and overstated concerns that were being pushed to justify the position that he was unemployed for football reasons? Remember when some said that was all a bunch of crap?

As it turns out, it was.

If the subtle-on-the-surface shift that happened last July, when Kaepernick’s status went from being about only football to being about non-football considerations, wasn’t enough to prove that the “all about football” narrative amounted to nonsense, the ongoing collusion case is establishing that multiple teams viewed Kaepernick as a starting NFL quarterback in 2017, and that they continue to view him that way. Per a source with knowledge of the situation, internal franchise documents generated as part of the free-agency evaluation process and testimony from witnesses harvested via depositions in the collusion litigation has established that teams viewed Kaepernick as being good enough not simply to be employed by an NFL team, but to be a starting quarterback for an NFL team.

So why wasn’t he?

The real reason has been obvious for more than a year, and if anyone still believes that Kaepernick’s unemployment arose from the belief that he couldn’t perform at a sufficiently high level, that’s just simply not the case. (Although at this point there’s no chance anyone’s long-made-up mind will be changing on anything related to Kaepernick, facts notwithstanding.) The deeper question becomes whether Kaepernick and his lawyers can prove coordination among the teams and/or through the league office in connection with the decision to steer clear of Kaepernick based on his role at the forefront of protests that occurred during the national anthem.

Whether coordination can or can’t be proven, the collusion case will conclusively prove one thing, regardless of whether anyone wants to believe it: Multiple teams believed that Colin Kaepernick was still good enough to play after becoming a free agent more than a year ago. Which means that, at least as to Kaepernick, the notion that teams make decisions based only on trying to win football games doesn’t hold water.

 
He should follow Manziel's lead and go rehab his image in the CFL
That won't rehab his image. The anthem issue won't go away with a stint in Canada. And Manziel has yet to prove that he can play in the NFL (even Kaep's critics grudgingly admit that he was good enough at one point in time to take his team to two NFC Conference Championship games and one Super Bowl).

Plus the CFL has not been a path back for QBs to the NFL in ages, which is why Tebow never seriously considered going that route. Last CFL QB to find subsequent success in the NFL was Jeff Garcia and that was almost 20 years ago.

 
That won't rehab his image. The anthem issue won't go away with a stint in Canada. And Manziel has yet to prove that he can play in the NFL (even Kaep's critics grudgingly admit that he was good enough at one point in time to take his team to two NFC Conference Championship games and one Super Bowl).

Plus the CFL has not been a path back for QBs to the NFL in ages, which is why Tebow never seriously considered going that route. Last CFL QB to find subsequent success in the NFL was Jeff Garcia and that was almost 20 years ago.
That's because most QBs that go to Canada aren't good enough.  Kaepernick can show all of us he is by dominating up there.  But I don't think he really wants to do that.  He gets more air time this way.

 
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/05/21/kaepernick-collusion-case-proving-that-teams-viewed-him-as-a-starting-quarterback/

Kaepernick collusion case proving that teams viewed him as a starting quarterback

Posted by Mike Florio on May 21, 2018, 5:55 AM EDT

Remember when quarterback Colin Kaepernick initially went unsigned after becoming a free agent in March 2017? Remember the false and overstated concerns that were being pushed to justify the position that he was unemployed for football reasons? Remember when some said that was all a bunch of crap?

As it turns out, it was.

If the subtle-on-the-surface shift that happened last July, when Kaepernick’s status went from being about only football to being about non-football considerations, wasn’t enough to prove that the “all about football” narrative amounted to nonsense, the ongoing collusion case is establishing that multiple teams viewed Kaepernick as a starting NFL quarterback in 2017, and that they continue to view him that way. Per a source with knowledge of the situation, internal franchise documents generated as part of the free-agency evaluation process and testimony from witnesses harvested via depositions in the collusion litigation has established that teams viewed Kaepernick as being good enough not simply to be employed by an NFL team, but to be a starting quarterback for an NFL team.

So why wasn’t he?

The real reason has been obvious for more than a year, and if anyone still believes that Kaepernick’s unemployment arose from the belief that he couldn’t perform at a sufficiently high level, that’s just simply not the case. (Although at this point there’s no chance anyone’s long-made-up mind will be changing on anything related to Kaepernick, facts notwithstanding.) The deeper question becomes whether Kaepernick and his lawyers can prove coordination among the teams and/or through the league office in connection with the decision to steer clear of Kaepernick based on his role at the forefront of protests that occurred during the national anthem.

Whether coordination can or can’t be proven, the collusion case will conclusively prove one thing, regardless of whether anyone wants to believe it: Multiple teams believed that Colin Kaepernick was still good enough to play after becoming a free agent more than a year ago. Which means that, at least as to Kaepernick, the notion that teams make decisions based only on trying to win football games doesn’t hold water.
I always thought NFL teams make decisions on what is best for the business and the teams brand and what is the best for the $$$$$ bottom line.  Kappy is good enough to be on a team but the bad teams that needed a QB not good enough to put them to the next level.  Then is he good or bad for the teams bottom line and fan base decision comes in..and we can see how teams decided.  The risk/reward was not worth it to NFL teams.

 
I think most have agreed that the anthem activities have played a part in his lack of a job, although many think he was losing out on a back-up role.

It will be interesting to see if Florio's claim that multiple teams viewed him as worthy of a starting role bears itself out.

 
I love Florio and the way he basically post blog entry articles.  Basically all we got out of that is there may be more then 1 evaluation report and/or interview that states Kaep had starter potential.  The rest is an opinion piece devoid of any context of the actual document(s)/interview(s). 

 
I've become fatigued with PFT coverage of this. It seems as if Florio is connecting dots between 'teams admit guy has talent -> collusion proven.' It's just so dumb. The need is to prove teams collaborated in agreement not to sign Kaepernick, which is a different question altogether from whether he has talent. Sure he could be a fine player, but each team could independently decide he is not talented enough to overcome the controversy and loss of fans/sponsors that he'd definitely cause. That is not collusion.

 
I love Florio and the way he basically post blog entry articles.  Basically all we got out of that is there may be more then 1 evaluation report and/or interview that states Kaep had starter potential.  The rest is an opinion piece devoid of any context of the actual document(s)/interview(s). 
No there is this:

Per a source with knowledge of the situation, internal franchise documents generated as part of the free-agency evaluation process and testimony from witnesses harvested via depositions in the collusion litigation has established that teams viewed Kaepernick as being good enough not simply to be employed by an NFL team, but to be a starting quarterback for an NFL team.
That is not actual documentation but the combination of unidentified source, internal documents he has seen and deposition witness testimony would indicate there is some fire here beneath the smoke.

 
Florio is stating 1 source has told him there is more then 1 document and/or interview that evaluated Kaep as having starter potential.

Per a source with knowledge of the situation, internal franchise documents generated as part of the free-agency evaluation process and testimony from witnesses harvested via depositions in the collusion litigation has established that teams viewed Kaepernick as being good enough not simply to be employed by an NFL team, but to be a starting quarterback for an NFL team.
Read it over and over if you must...but that is all you can definitively come away with from that statement.  The rest of the article is all conjecture/opinion devoid of any context of the document(s) and/or interview(s). 

 
Florio is stating 1 source has told him there is more then 1 document and/or interview that evaluated Kaep as having starter potential.

Read it over and over if you must...but that is all you can definitively come away with from that statement.  The rest of the article is all conjecture/opinion devoid of any context of the document(s) and/or interview(s). 
I am not reading that way, I see it as one source plus this other information he is aware of. However the way Florio phrased it is ambiguous, so we just have to wait and see this play out.

 
Speak For Yourself‏Verified account @SFY 3h3 hours ago

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.@WhitlockJason doesn't think reports that NFL teams viewed Colin Kaepernick as a starting QB proves he belongs in the league

 
Jason Whitlock‏Verified account @WhitlockJason 12h12 hours ago

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Jason Whitlock Retweeted Mark

Thank you, brother. NFL has produced more black millionaires than any other industry but Florio/Kap/SJW media are trying to convince black people that the NFL is a racist institution. It's a lie. It's the okie doke.

 
I am not reading that way, I see it as one source plus this other information he is aware of. However the way Florio phrased it is ambiguous, so we just have to wait and see this play out.
Then you really should revisit your english class notes.  If it was multiple it would be -

Per a source with knowledge of the situation, internal franchise documents generated as part of the free-agency evaluation process, and testimony from witnesses harvested via depositions in the collusion litigation has established that teams viewed Kaepernick...
But it didn't, so the only way to correctly read the sentence is that Florio was told per a source involved in the case there are document(s) and testimony that showed Kaep was evaluated with starting potential.  I state it that way cause without reading the document or testimony, there is no way to state that the team viewed it or if it was just the evaluation report from one scout or the opinion of one coach or what.  Keep in mind Florio's PFT has been based on opinions and rumors since he opened it, so without proper context this article is no more then click bait. 

 
Then you really should revisit your english class notes.  If it was multiple it would be -

But it didn't, so the only way to correctly read the sentence is that Florio was told per a source involved in the case there are document(s) and testimony that showed Kaep was evaluated with starting potential.  I state it that way cause without reading the document or testimony, there is no way to state that the team viewed it or if it was just the evaluation report from one scout or the opinion of one coach or what.  Keep in mind Florio's PFT has been based on opinions and rumors since he opened it, so without proper context this article is no more then click bait. 
Sorry, I don't agree with your interpretation of what Florio reported. After rereading it, I stand with what I previously said. As more information comes out, we will see who is correct.

 
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Ian Rapoport‏ @RapSheet 5m5 minutes ago

#Giants owner John Mara says there will be more discussion regarding the national anthem and social justice tomorrow... and he expects a resolution. There were lengthy talks today.

 

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