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Colin Kaepernick Thread and related anthem kneeling issues/news (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dr. Awesome
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Gandalf
Footballguy
Okay pal, let's see your top ten.
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Gandalf
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
I have no idea who they would replace him with. That really isn't relevant.
Gandalf
Footballguy
I think it is when thinking about whether to sign him to a contract or not. If you can replace him easily it would seem to lower the amount you'd be willing pay him. I guess - as you seem - if you don't like him and want him off your team then it wouldn't be as relevant because you just want him gone. You seem pretty frustrated with him. Is that because of his below average accuracy when pressured? Maybe he will improve on that?
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KellysHeroes
Footballguy
this is going to get messy
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
There's absolutely no way Kaepernick is a better NFL QB than Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan, and Tony Romo. At the very least. Guys like Cutler, Flacco, etc are probably better at this point as well.Gandalf said:
Gandalf
Footballguy
I know. I left Rodgers out! As I said in a later post, he would be my number 1 QB in real life. Then the guys on my list.
Wow. Lots of kaep hate on this board.
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Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Saying he's not as good as established Pro Bowl level QBs who have carried NFL offenses isn't hate. He might or might not get there someday, but he's not even close to that level right now.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
It's not hate. I'll put it like this. Guys like Rodger/Manning/Brady are the best QBs I the league or at least all top 5. Pretend it's crunch time and the defense is bringing the heat. When the blitz is coming, you could have Jim Brown back there and he's not getting away and neither is your boy, Copernicus. So in this scenario, the QB knows the blitz is coming and he must read the defense and get rid of the ball quickly. Even the most elite of the elite, the Brady's, Brees', the Mannings of the world have a tough go of it in this scenario, and they're the absolute best at it. Now you're asking a guy like Kaep to flourish in those scenarios? He'll no.
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Paulymaggs
Footballguy
Kaep's probably Top 3 in the NFL in terms of being physically gifted.
But I don't think this guy has what it takes mentally to win it all.
But I don't think this guy has what it takes mentally to win it all.
Gandalf
Footballguy
What does one need to do to be considered a winner? I mean he has gone pretty deep into the playoffs the last two years. Is the feeling that if you had a better QB that the niners would have two more Super Bowls? If so I can see why there is the dislike for him then.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
If the 49ers had Roethlisberger, Romo, or Ryan then yeah they'd have a ring or two right now. Unrealistic to expect Kaep to play on that level given only 1 1/2 years of starting experience, but it's equally ridiculous to put him in that tier of QBs right now, much less ahead of those guys. He's just along for the ride at this point. Well, unless they're playing GB, LOL.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I would have a really hard time paying him that. Even if the cap raises to the projected $133m.Faust said:
He's a tremendous athlete but he's not a very good quarterback. Think Kordell Stewart.
False Start
Footballguy
Does his throwing style look funny to anyone else and he run really tall? That bothers me, I want to like him as a true NFL QB, but I just can't. If you give him this kind of money right now it is a bad move. I liked Alex Smith more honestly.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Kaepernick stands like an erection in the pocket.
But For me it has zero to do with him and more of a philosophical difference. I simply don't like running quarterbacks. I believe QBs who rely on their legs too often, it ######s their mastery of their passing craft. I don't believe in subjecting the single most important player, the leader of your team, the franchise player to whom all hope rests, to physical contact. Why are you paying your left tackle and his four compadres all those millions if you're gonna gamble your Super Bowl chances by letting him run all over the place? That's what running backs are for. Let them get the PCS.
I'm not saying my way is right, and there are many ways to run a team, quarterbacks who use their athletic ability to do more then buy more time to find a receiver just aren't my cup if tea.
But For me it has zero to do with him and more of a philosophical difference. I simply don't like running quarterbacks. I believe QBs who rely on their legs too often, it ######s their mastery of their passing craft. I don't believe in subjecting the single most important player, the leader of your team, the franchise player to whom all hope rests, to physical contact. Why are you paying your left tackle and his four compadres all those millions if you're gonna gamble your Super Bowl chances by letting him run all over the place? That's what running backs are for. Let them get the PCS.
I'm not saying my way is right, and there are many ways to run a team, quarterbacks who use their athletic ability to do more then buy more time to find a receiver just aren't my cup if tea.
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BaBastage
Footballguy
When you make fun of a guy's name instead of sticking to stats and facts, it sure comes across like hate.
Personally, I think the range is maybe slightly high, but not by much. It's not Brady-Rogers-Manning cash. It's Romo-Cutler-Stafford money. I think Kaepernick's upside is greater than those three.
Pair Kaepernick with Dez Bryant, Brandon Marshall, or Calvin Johnson and he'd put up similar if not greater numbers. Just my $.02 though.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Harbaugh can take him to the Browns with him.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
drummer
Footballguy
Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
Kordell Stewart? Seriously, Andy?
Kaep's been a starter for a year and a half, and he already makes better decisions and fewer bad throws than Kordell ever managed in his 10-year career. So far, Kaep's career numbers are 60% CP and 1.7% INT. In Kordell's best full season, he managed 60% completions and 2.5% INTs, and for his career he was a 56% passer with more INTs than pass TDs.
If you want a comparison from that era, I'd put Kaepernick much closer to Steve McNair than Kordell. Not only are the physical gifts and the early-year stats similar, but the knocks on Kaep are eerily similar to what we heard about McNair after his first couple of seasons (can't make good reads under pressure, can't manage a game, tries to do too much with his legs, takes too many sacks). Of course, once McNair got more comfortable in the pocket, you didn't hear those criticisms any more, and he went on to a borderline Hall of Fame career.
Not saying Kapernick's destined for a similar career arc, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
You sound like my wife when I say "Person X looks like person Y", meaning the two resemble each other and she says "Nuh-uh!"
Don't look so deep into it. All I said was "great athlete, not great QB" which describes both guys.
Another guy he resembles is Randall Cunningham.
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
drummer said:STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
While it's ridiculous to put Kaepernick in the top-10 (NFL-wise) ATM, it's also important to remember that he's not a finished product yet either.
DepthCharts
Footballguy
Yes, if the 9ers had a QB who could throw the ball accurately and with reason they would be a lot better off. The 9ers would be much better off with a qb who can throw for 250 (forget 300) and a RB who can run for 100. What they have is a QB who can't throw for 250 and a QB, or a RB, who runs for 100, but both dont. That recipe is a college recipe and will win games in the NFL, but its proven so far that it can't/doesnt win all the games that matter. Bottom line is, I dont think someone "gets smart" all of the sudden. You dont have ALL the physical attributes he has and end up at UNR, that in itself tells me that people thought he lacked comparable mental aptitude coming out of high school. Otherwise, this specimen is a pac 12, big 10, sec, acc starter. He wasnt.
3 straight NFC championship appearances with one Super Bowl appearance. And if they don't get absolutely hosed with calls in the Seattle game, 2 straight SB appearances. Although I guess the 1st NFC wasn't really because of him. . .
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DepthCharts
Footballguy
Which is really my point, simply its proven to not be a recipe to win ALL the games that matter. The run they are on is not unchartered territory. i wouldnt be shocked if they meet this ominous fate again next year. See Andy Reid/McNabb Eagles. 4 straight nfc championships, losing 3 and losing a SB. What the Eagles had was proven not to be a recipe to win ALL the games that matter.
BaBastage
Footballguy
If he's throwing to Calvin Johnson, yes, I do. Or maybe it's 4200 and 25 TD's, but his rushing numbers go up because the defense has to defend the pass more. In any event, his ceiling becomes similar given the surrounding talent.STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
There's no way to prove or disprove that assertion, your viewpoint is equally valid as mine.
BaBastage
Footballguy
I decided to dig deeper here. It's an interesting question.
In 2013, Kaepernick was ahead of Romo, Cutler, and Stafford in Yards per Attempt. (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/yardsPerPassAttempt) with a weaker set of receivers. Does that factor into the equation?
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
IMHO, it would take a lot more deep digging (one stat?) to justify why you believe Kap is capaible of 5k and 30 TD's. A LOT more
drummer
Footballguy
The last 49er QB to throw for over 4000 yards was Jeff Garcia in the year 2000. Steve Young was the other QB who has done that twice with the team. People are tossing out 5k+ yards and 30 TDs around here while forgetting that Joe Montana never threw for 4000 yards (he almost had in 1990), and the only time he threw more than 30 TDs in a regular season was with he throwing for "only" 3054, albeit in 13 games due to injury.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
drummer
Footballguy
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I'm simply betting that Steve Young and Joe Montana would both be throwing for 5000+ yards and 30+ TDs if they played today.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Don't know about that if they were just inserted onto the current version of the 49ers. With that defense and offensive line, taking the air out of the ball will win you a ton of games. Capable of it? Absolutely. But throwing the ball 40+ times / game wouldn't be optimal game planning for SF, regardless of who is under center.
BaBastage
Footballguy
Fair enough.
Yards per Attempt NFL Rank Value)Kaepernick 8 7.69Cutler 10 7.38Stafford 11 7.33Romo 14 7.16 Completion Percent NFL Rank Value)Romo 9 63.9Cutler 13 63.1Stafford 30 58.5Kaepernick 31 58.4QB Rating NFL Rank ValueRomo 8 96.7Kaepernick 10 91.6Cutler 13 89.2Stafford 19 84.2Interception perCompletion Pct NFL Rank ValueRomo 9 1.87% Kaepernick 10 1.92%Stafford 25 3.0%Cutler 27 3.38% Given the above, I think Stafford makes his big numbers in volume, not accuracy or skill. (Both he and Kaepernick lag in completion percent.)
As for Romo and Cutler, Romo sniffed 5K/30 once. (4900/38 in 2012, next best was 4400/26 in 2009) and Cutler's barely sniifed it at all (4500/25 in 2008, outside of that, his next best is 3600/27 in 2009).
Personally, add in Kaepernick's upside as a runner, and I'd gladly pay him the same as the other three. Ymmv, of course.
drummer
Footballguy
Because Matt Stafford did it?
When you have a 15-1 team in 1984 that has the starting QB throw "for only" 3060 yards, but has the run game rush for 2465, with your defense ranked #1 in PA, well you should get the idea.
drummer
Footballguy
Russell Wilson threw for 3236, rushed for 539 yards, with his team rushing for 2188 and their defense ranked #1 in PA during the regular season, and embarrased a QB in the Super Bowl who just set a record passing yardage wise. Of course, Manning's defense was ranked 22nd in PA, and his run game rushed for a little over 1800 yards.
Garcia threw for over 4000 yards on a 6-10 team, with 31 TDs to 10 INTs. He also rushed for 414 out of the total 1801 yards that season as well. But the defense was atrocious, ranked 28th in PA.
Cam Newton threw for over 4000 yards in 2011, with he rushing for over 700 yards to add to the CAR's rushing total 2408, with that defense ranked 27th in PA on a 6-10 team. This season, Newton throws for "only" 3379 yards, rushed for 585 yards of the 2026 (he was the second leading rusher on the team lol), with his defense ranked 2nd in PA.
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5Rings
Lurker
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CalBear
Footballguy
Yeah, it would really suck to have a QB from a minor-conference school like BYU who led the team in rushing during a Super Bowl. If he was a good QB he would have been in the SEC, and if he leads the team in rushing he musn't be winning games with his arm.
drummer
Footballguy
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
No, because Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, AND Stafford have done it. And Young/Montana are at least as good as any of those guys.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
You don't think better QB play increases their chances of winning a ring in the past three years? Yeah, I should have thrown "probably" in there, but if you think that Kaepernick and Smith gave SF a better chance to win the past three years than those three QBs then this discussion isn't worth pursuing.
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