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Colin Kaepernick Thread and related anthem kneeling issues/news

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28 minutes ago, Epic Problem said:

I like.

Zzzzzzz. Don't you ever come up with new material?  Can you formulate an argument without an insult.  It's like kindergarten in here.  

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6 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Still no collusion was proven.  Enjoy your Arizona beach house, buddy. 

Dude, it can't be proven because of the terms of the settlement and you know that.

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1 minute ago, jonessed said:

We don’t have an estimation of the settlement amount.  There’s a confidentiality agreement. 

Dude, it was on Twitter so that pretty much makes it fact. 

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4 minutes ago, jonessed said:

We don’t have an estimation of the settlement amount.  There’s a confidentiality agreement. 

https://247sports.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/Article/Colin-Kaepernick-collusion-case-settlement-amount-NFL-129142821/

That being said, there are multiple figures around the NFL that have a rough estimate of how much money Kaepernick actually received in this settlement. According to Mike Freeman of Bleacher/Report, NFL team officials are speculating that the former 49ers quarterback was paid in the range of $60 to $80 million. He continued to say that it wasn't an official figure, but all of the speculation voiced by the NFL higher-ups agreed on this range.

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2 minutes ago, squistion said:

Dude, it can't be proven because of the terms of the settlement and you know that.

Yes you’ve said that repeatedly.  So it’s weird a couple of you want an apology over something that wasn’t proven 

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Just now, tonydead said:

Thumbs up. And I'm not saying the NFL isn't guilty, just pointing out the NFL has other legitimate reason to settle that seem to be completely lost on quite a few people in here.  

I assure you, it’s not lost on me. One of my clients was in a major car accident, other party was 100% at fault, but the passenger in the other car died. The deceased person’s family ended up suing my client and the insurance company settled on an amount that actually hit her umbrella policy (which I advised her she should have) for $150k. Boggles my mind that the insurance company settled for an amount that large, but they knew the driver of the car at fault was a deadbeat and they probably wouldn’t be able to recoup any of the legal costs. 

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1 hour ago, [scooter] said:

It was about money for both sides.

Kaepernick wanted to recover the money he would have earned if he hadn't been cut.

The NFL wanted to retain the money that they would have lost if the CBA had been voided.

So, the NFL ended up paying $80 million to avoid losing potentially billions. Maybe they consider that to be a good deal, but it's still a disaster. They could have convinced the Cardinals or some other loser team to sign him to the veteran's minimum and then cut him after a year, and they would have saved themselves $75 million.

 

The chances of him proving everything that was needed to void the CBA was slim to none. If he has that kind of evidence he’s not settling, ever. 

Like I said above, he got ‘go away’ money and that’s what he wanted. 

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1 minute ago, squistion said:

https://247sports.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/Article/Colin-Kaepernick-collusion-case-settlement-amount-NFL-129142821/

That being said, there are multiple figures around the NFL that have a rough estimate of how much money Kaepernick actually received in this settlement. According to Mike Freeman of Bleacher/Report, NFL team officials are speculating that the former 49ers quarterback was paid in the range of $60 to $80 million. He continued to say that it wasn't an official figure, but all of the speculation voiced by the NFL higher-ups agreed on this range.

Right.  One guy at Bleacher Report gathered up all of the speculation and teeeted out a range.  Really reliable.

We have no idea what the number is.  There’s an NDA.

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2 minutes ago, jonessed said:

Right.  One guy at Bleacher Report gathered up all of the speculation and teeeted out a range.  Really reliable.

We have no idea what the number is.  There’s an NDA.

It is not just one guy at Bleacher saying this. That has been a consistent range I have seen from other links discussing this.

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3 minutes ago, squistion said:

It is not just one guy at Bleacher saying this. That has been a consistent range I have seen from other links discussing this.

Could you please share them? Not doubting you, just wondering if they mostly stem from Mike Freeman's report. As a side note, apparently Freeman made the news cycle many years back for lying about his credentials.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/2004/01/10/puffed-up-resume-costs-sportswriter-a-new-job/614e71c1-4e6a-40a7-9d2e-dbc1750d69fc/

Edited by TakiToki

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3 minutes ago, Dickies said:

I assure you, it’s not lost on me. One of my clients was in a major car accident, other party was 100% at fault, but the passenger in the other car died. The deceased person’s family ended up suing my client and the insurance company settled on an amount that actually hit her umbrella policy (which I advised her she should have) for $150k. Boggles my mind that the insurance company settled for an amount that large, but they knew the driver of the car at fault was a deadbeat and they probably wouldn’t be able to recoup any of the legal costs. 

So it was all about the money!  Just kidding.  It's my opinion Keap gave up a lot more in the NDA and the amount of money while large to normal people is meaningless to the NFL. Therefore victory to the NFL. And they got it done in the off season so it's not talked about all next year. That alone pays for itself. 

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7 minutes ago, TakiToki said:

Could you please share them? Not doubting you, just wondering if they mostly stem from Mike Freeman's report. As a side note, apparently Freeman made the news cycle many years back for lying about his credentials.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/2004/01/10/puffed-up-resume-costs-sportswriter-a-new-job/614e71c1-4e6a-40a7-9d2e-dbc1750d69fc/

Everything I have read references the same guy.

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2 minutes ago, TakiToki said:

Could you please share them? Not doubting you, just wondering if they mostly stem from Mike Freeman's report. As a side note, apparently Freeman made the news cycle many years back for lying about his credentials.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/2004/01/10/puffed-up-resume-costs-sportswriter-a-new-job/614e71c1-4e6a-40a7-9d2e-dbc1750d69fc/

I just recall seeing this from multiple sources, and I don't recall them all quoting Mike Freeman, although that could be possible. It seems a reasonable figure given what Kaep would have gotten in damages for estimated lost QB pay given that the amount would be calculated by an arbitrator, who has a duty to reach a fair settlement for both sides. It stands to reason it would take an outrageous sum of that amount to buy Kaep's silence, and make him go away and never ever discuss this again.

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8 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

So within hours of the settlement the amount leaked is credible but after two years there’s nothing about collusion.  Good times. 

Straw Man. It was not claimed that the settlement amount was leaked.

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15 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:
2 hours ago, [scooter] said:

It was about money for both sides.

Kaepernick wanted to recover the money he would have earned if he hadn't been cut.

The NFL wanted to retain the money that they would have lost if the CBA had been voided.

So, the NFL ended up paying $80 million to avoid losing potentially billions. Maybe they consider that to be a good deal, but it's still a disaster. They could have convinced the Cardinals or some other loser team to sign him to the veteran's minimum and then cut him after a year, and they would have saved themselves $75 million.

The chances of him proving everything that was needed to void the CBA was slim to none. If he has that kind of evidence he’s not settling, ever. 

Like I said above, he got ‘go away’ money and that’s what he wanted. 

If he got $80M, then it was way more than "going away" money. He wouldn't have earned that much from the 49ers contract that he voided.

I don't think either one of us knows for sure if his chances of winning were slim or not. But the owners obviously decided that they were willing to spend $80M to not find out.

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18 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Like I said above, he got ‘go away’ money and that’s what he wanted. 

I think the main thing that he wanted was the money that he would have earned if he hadn't been cut. He got that and much more.

Trying to spin that as a bad thing is weird. He's not suing the NFL over black lives matter. :lol:

 

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1 minute ago, squistion said:

I just recall seeing this from multiple sources, and I don't recall them all quoting Mike Freeman, although that could be possible. It seems a reasonable figure given what Kaep would have gotten in damages for estimated lost QB pay given that the amount would be calculated by an arbitrator, who has a duty to reach a fair settlement for both sides. It stands to reason it would take an outrageous sum of that amount to buy Kaep's silence, and make him go away and never ever discuss this again.

Come to think of it I can t remember the last time I asked for a link in the PSF and actually got one. Including several the past couple of pages. Hmmm

It's not an outrageous sum for the NFL. To quote s Sho Nuff, that's a falsehood.  They are laughing right now. 

 

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8 minutes ago, tonydead said:

So it was all about the money!  Just kidding.  It's my opinion Keap gave up a lot more in the NDA and the amount of money while large to normal people is meaningless to the NFL. Therefore victory to the NFL. And they got it done in the off season so it's not talked about all next year. That alone pays for itself. 

Perhaps. We don’t know what Kaep got, but I would imagine whatever the NFL gave him is an insignificant amount to them and worth the avoidance of the potential PR hit of a public lawsuit.  Seems like a win for both parties

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3 minutes ago, squistion said:

I just recall seeing this from multiple sources, and I don't recall them all quoting Mike Freeman, although that could be possible. It seems a reasonable figure given what Kaep would have gotten in damages for estimated lost QB pay given that the amount would be calculated by an arbitrator, who has a duty to reach a fair settlement for both sides. It stands to reason it would take an outrageous sum of that amount to buy Kaep's silence, and make him go away and never ever discuss this again.

I truly mean this with no offense intended, but I don't think you're much of a position to estimate what a reasonable settlement amount is. And considering the only sourced estimate thus far is a writer with a proven history of lying tweeting "Number NFL team officials are speculating to me is the NFL paid Kaepernick in the $60 to $80 million range", I don't think we really have much substance on which to base opinions. Certainly this may change.

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1 minute ago, Dickies said:

Perhaps. We don’t know what Kaep got, but I would imagine whatever the NFL gave him is an insignificant amount to them and worth the avoidance of the potential PR hit of a public lawsuit.  Seems like a win for both parties

Agree.  Perhaps I have grandeur visions of what a social justice warrior could have accomplished with a win against the NFL and no NDA. 

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Just now, TakiToki said:

I truly mean this with no offense intended, but I don't think you're much of a position to estimate what a reasonable settlement amount is. And considering the only sourced estimate thus far is a writer with a proven history of lying tweeting "Number NFL team officials are speculating to me is the NFL paid Kaepernick in the $60 to $80 million range", I don't think we really have much substance on which to base opinions. Certainly this may change.

I doubt it will change.  Nobody is going to want to break the confidentiality agreement.

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Just now, jonessed said:

I doubt it will change.  Nobody is going to want to break the confidentiality agreement.

True, but more reputable people may go on the record with informed guesses as time moves along.

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2 minutes ago, TakiToki said:

True, but more reputable people may go on the record with informed guesses as time moves along.

Guesses are just guesses.

How can someone be informed without knowledge of the evidence?  And if they have knowledge of the evidence they are going to be under the NDA.

Edited by jonessed

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2 minutes ago, TakiToki said:

I truly mean this with no offense intended, but I don't think you're much of a position to estimate what a reasonable settlement amount is. And considering the only sourced estimate thus far is a writer with a proven history of lying tweeting "Number NFL team officials are speculating to me is the NFL paid Kaepernick in the $60 to $80 million range", I don't think we really have much substance on which to base opinions. Certainly this may change.

Well I will second your statement with offense. Squid and Tim owes everyone an apology for using this repeatedly in their arguments for an apology. 

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14 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

If he got $80M, then it was way more than "going away" money. He wouldn't have earned that much from the 49ers contract that he voided.

I don't think either one of us knows for sure if his chances of winning were slim or not. But the owners obviously decided that they were willing to spend $80M to not find out.

Go look up what he would have had to prove in order to have the CBA voided. If he had all of that he is not settling. Also, in the unlikely chance he could prove it who says the NFLPA would have agreed to void it? Voiding it could potentially cause a work stoppage and I’m sure they wouldn’t want that. Peter King also details this in his column today. It’s a really long read but well worth it. 

12 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

I think the main thing that he wanted was the money that he would have earned if he hadn't been cut. He got that and much more.

Trying to spin that as a bad thing is weird. He's not suing the NFL over black lives matter. :lol:

 

He wasn’t earning 80 million the second he kneeled and his chances deteriorated more and more with each stunt (Castro shirts, pig socks, girlfriend insulting potential employers etc) he pulled. 

Theres no spin as a bad thing. It’s great for him and his chances of playing probably increased now that this has been settled. That doesn’t mean he didn’t get ‘go away’ money. Surely you don’t think the league is hurting by this in anyway meaningful way. They gave him peanuts and told him to beat it. People like a good story and the underdog, I get it. If you bought into him fighting for what’s right and taking down Goliath that’s great. In my opinion he was out for money after he put himself in a gigantic hole. 

Edited by Bigboy10182000
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Just now, Bigboy10182000 said:

He wasn’t earning 80 million the second he kneeled and his chances deteriorated more and more with each stunt (Castro shirts, pig socks, girlfriend insulting potential employers etc) he pulled. 

The pig sock thing happened before the kneeling. You really should learn about a story before commenting on it.

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2 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

It might be worth pointing out that the $80M number assigned to the settlement was pure speculation.

Correct. And if it is it’s split with Reid and their lawyers. Kaep himself will only see a fraction of whatever was settled upon. The lawyers see the real winners 

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14 minutes ago, TakiToki said:

I truly mean this with no offense intended, but I don't think you're much of a position to estimate what a reasonable settlement amount is. And considering the only sourced estimate thus far is a writer with a proven history of lying tweeting "Number NFL team officials are speculating to me is the NFL paid Kaepernick in the $60 to $80 million range", I don't think we really have much substance on which to base opinions. Certainly this may change.

From Mike Florio of PFT:
 

Quote

ProFootballTalk✔@ProFootballTalk

NFL likely is paying BIG money to keep secret any deposition transcripts, text messages, emails, etc. that may have shown an effort by the league office to discourage teams from signing Kaepernick.

1,565

11:07 AM - Feb 15, 2019

I think BIG money is probably in the $60-$80 million range considering what Kaep would have received in estimated lost QB wages plus damages from an arbitrator. They would have to make it worth his while to permanently buy his silence.

Edited by squistion
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4 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

It might be worth pointing out that the $80M number assigned to the settlement was pure speculation.

True, but it's speculation by multiple NFL team officials. Which is a little more reliable than "speculation by guys on a fantasy football board".

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5 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

The pig sock thing happened before the kneeling. You really should learn about a story before commenting on it.

Stuff like that is slightly around how the grammar police are viewed. Or the guy that’s sitting on the “*you’re” reply... :lmao:

And the point remains. It wasn’t going to help him get the money he lost as you asserted. 

Edited by Bigboy10182000

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Just now, Bigboy10182000 said:
3 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

The pig sock thing happened before the kneeling. You really should learn about a story before commenting on it.

Stuff like that is slightly around how the grammar police are viewed. Or the guy that’s sitting on the “*you’re” reply... :lmao:

And stuff like this is why the AC Forum exists.

 

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4 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

True, but it's speculation by multiple NFL team officials. Which is a little more reliable than "speculation by guys on a fantasy football board".

 

I have yet to see the speculation assigned to any NFL officials.  Maybe you could link where the sources have been identified reliably in any manner?

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2 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

And stuff like this is why the AC Forum exists.

 

Cool. 

The point remains, it didn’t help him get the money he would have lost. Regardless of when it was. 

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Florio's probably a top guy to have a reasonable guess on this. He has been conspicuously mum on an actual figure or range of such. He has also introduced the possibility of issues beyond just collusion playing a part in the league's desire to settle.

Quote

Win or lose, that information could have been devastating to the NFL, both as it relates to potential proof that the league office tried to discourage teams from signing Kaepernick and/or Reid and as it relates to evidence of people overstepping their roles and/or failing to competently perform the duties of their jobs and/or saying dumb things that would have fueled umpteen news cycles.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/02/15/nfls-settlement-avoids-disclosure-of-emails-texts-testimony/

Just to be clear, I am not stating that I believe the settlement figure isn't very large. Just that we don't have reason to be sure of much yet.

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:lmao: We got the OP saying that the NFL bought his silence.  Can we all agree that is equivalent of big K selling out?  I mean why is it so hard for you guys to look at both sides of an issue?  

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10 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:
16 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

True, but it's speculation by multiple NFL team officials. Which is a little more reliable than "speculation by guys on a fantasy football board".

I have yet to see the speculation assigned to any NFL officials.  Maybe you could link where the sources have been identified reliably in any manner?

I wouldn't expect any NFL officials to ever be named, based on the NDA signed by both sides.

A reporter at Bleacher Report indicated that multiple NFL officials gave him a range of $60-$80 million. That guy is far from reliable, but Mike Florio of ProFootballTalk tweeted that it was "likely BIG money", and he said on his podcast tonight that the over/under was $49.5 million. I consider Florio be an informed analyst, and he has little incentive to inflate the number considering the fact that he works for a network that has a contract with the NFL.

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10 minutes ago, squistion said:

From Mike Florio of PFT:
 

I think BIG money is probably in the $60-$80 million range considering what Kaep would have received in estimated lost QB wages plus damages from an arbitrator. They would have to make it worth his while to permanently buy his silence.

It doesn't matter.

Here is the bottom line: Kap went in with a cause. That cause is gone. He took money in lieu of proving his point and he signed (what I am guessing) a settlement that pretty much silences any further dissenting points he may make.  Think about it--if he saw this through--it possibly could have undone the CBA. It would have changed the NFL in ways no one could imagine, but Kap chose the $$.

The NFL (a multi-billion dollar entity) guaranteed this problem is gone, gone, gone.---40-60-80 million is chump change for this problem to be done with.

Tomorrow we wake up---the NFL goes on and Kap never sees the inside of an NFL stadium unless he buys a ticket. All this drama to die with a whimper basically has to be a slap in the face of Kap believers. He made a stand only to have his silence bought. Squis, you deserve a metal for your unwavering faith. :thumbup:

I only hope Kap continues his philanthropy with his new found riches and helps the causes like he has before.

 

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This is what happened with bounty gate and AP, put to the test and forced with the prospect of open court the NFL folded like a cheap tent.

I’ll say this, I’ve defended not signing Kaep from a football perspective but this ain’t that. The NFL is loaded with dough. It doesn’t matter to them.

I’m guessing - ie I haven’t read bip on this - that Kaep is agreeing to keep silent on this. That’s how settlement agreements work. For a 1st Amendment champion this doesn’t reflect well on him. He’s supposed to be exposing the truth, not taking the payoff. Of course it is about money, he claims he was wrongly denied the rest of his career... but he was also supposed to be ferreting out corruption. Or not. 

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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23 minutes ago, tonydead said:

:lmao: We got the OP saying that the NFL bought his silence.  Can we all agree that is equivalent of big K selling out?  I mean why is it so hard for you guys to look at both sides of an issue?  

I’ve looked at both sides of this issue.

One side is racist and dumb. I’ll stick with the other side.

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38 minutes ago, TakiToki said:

Florio's probably a top guy to have a reasonable guess on this. He has been conspicuously mum on an actual figure or range of such.

Florio just stated on his podcast earlier tonight that he would set the over/under at $49.5 million (link)

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23 minutes ago, Courtjester said:

It doesn't matter.

Here is the bottom line: Kap went in with a cause. That cause is gone. He took money in lieu of proving his point and he signed (what I am guessing) a settlement that pretty much silences any further dissenting points he may make.  Think about it--if he saw this through--it possibly could have undone the CBA. It would have changed the NFL in ways no one could imagine, but Kap chose the $$.

The NFL (a multi-billion dollar entity) guaranteed this problem is gone, gone, gone.---40-60-80 million is chump change for this problem to be done with.

Tomorrow we wake up---the NFL goes on and Kap never sees the inside of an NFL stadium unless he buys a ticket. All this drama to die with a whimper basically has to be a slap in the face of Kap believers. He made a stand only to have his silence bought. Squis, you deserve a metal for your unwavering faith. :thumbup:

I only hope Kap continues his philanthropy with his new found riches and helps the causes like he has before.

 

What cause do you think he’s not allowed to talk about now?

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48 minutes ago, Courtjester said:

It doesn't matter.

Here is the bottom line: Kap went in with a cause. That cause is gone. He took money in lieu of proving his point and he signed (what I am guessing) a settlement that pretty much silences any further dissenting points he may make.  Think about it--if he saw this through--it possibly could have undone the CBA. It would have changed the NFL in ways no one could imagine, but Kap chose the $$.

The NFL (a multi-billion dollar entity) guaranteed this problem is gone, gone, gone.---40-60-80 million is chump change for this problem to be done with.

Tomorrow we wake up---the NFL goes on and Kap never sees the inside of an NFL stadium unless he buys a ticket. All this drama to die with a whimper basically has to be a slap in the face of Kap believers. He made a stand only to have his silence bought. Squis, you deserve a metal for your unwavering faith. :thumbup:

I only hope Kap continues his philanthropy with his new found riches and helps the causes like he has before.

Thank you, I guess...

I touched on this in an earlier post, but I think Kaep made a pragmatic decision and probably the best he could under the circumstances.

No matter what the outcome would have been, if he had seen this through, his NFL career was probably over. Irrespective of his talent, he would be viewed as toxic and too hot to handle (so to speak) for any team to sign and deal with the blowback from fans, the media, and Trump.

Assuming he is worth $20 million a year as a starter (based on what he wanted to play for the AAF) and he lost two years of productivity , we are talking $40 million in lost salary plus damages. Let's say best case scenario he gets $50 million, but that is assuming that he wins the grievance hearing and there was no guarantee of that. If the NFL offers him $60-$80 million he would have been foolish to turn down the proverbial bird in the hand.

Plus he accomplished what he set out to do, raise awareness of rogue LEOs, plus racial discrimination and injustice. And in the process he has become an icon for the African American community and a spokesman for Nike with his own line of apparel. Yes, he would like to play QB again, but he is in pretty good shape if he doesn't. He could probably make as much in speaking fees as he would as QB if he wants to go that route.

Plus, I don't really know if he really wanted to undo the CBA. As they say, be careful what you wish for and you are right, it could very well have changed the NFL in ways that no one could imagine and if that turned out to be negative, he would ultimately be blamed for it.

Yes, this was an anticlimactic end to his kneeling saga, but I think I probably would have done the same if I were he, as he had nothing more to prove, unless his intent was to cause serious damage to the NFL and indirectly those in the NFLPA.

Edited by squistion

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11 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:
35 minutes ago, Courtjester said:

It doesn't matter.

Here is the bottom line: Kap went in with a cause. That cause is gone. He took money in lieu of proving his point and he signed (what I am guessing) a settlement that pretty much silences any further dissenting points he may make.  Think about it--if he saw this through--it possibly could have undone the CBA. It would have changed the NFL in ways no one could imagine, but Kap chose the $$.

The NFL (a multi-billion dollar entity) guaranteed this problem is gone, gone, gone.---40-60-80 million is chump change for this problem to be done with.

Tomorrow we wake up---the NFL goes on and Kap never sees the inside of an NFL stadium unless he buys a ticket. All this drama to die with a whimper basically has to be a slap in the face of Kap believers. He made a stand only to have his silence bought. Squis, you deserve a metal for your unwavering faith. :thumbup:

I only hope Kap continues his philanthropy with his new found riches and helps the causes like he has before.

 

What cause do you think he’s not allowed to talk about now?

He's saying that Kapernick's "cause" was to prove collusion and/or destroy the CBA.

I'm not sure if that should be filed under Begging The Question or Moving The Goalposts.

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5 hours ago, [scooter] said:

I don't think either one of us knows for sure if his chances of winning were slim or not.

I read a thing a long time ago that said his case was weak. Since they settled it likely was. 

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On 12/23/2018 at 10:08 AM, squistion said:

And seriously, an owner is not going to care about what a player's girlfriend (who he has no control over) says on Twitter. Please.

miko grimes. Sure, Brent has no trouble getting work but not every team wants to deal with her.

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Sorry, I was posting without being fully caught up and the Miko Grimes thing has been addressed but differentiating between a wife and a g/f is just a schematics argument.  It boils down to your girl doing bad things that reflect poorly on you. I don't want this to turn into a big thing so I'll just walk backwards very slowly and say that Squistion is right. 

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