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Colin Kaepernick Thread and related anthem kneeling issues/news (12 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dr. Awesome
- Start date
daveR
Footballguy
So, I was considering the whole "stand for the anthem" thing, in general, and I wondered why we do it & why we don't do it at home. I concluded that, in a large setting, that it's NOT honoring dead American soldiers (who were drafted & handed a gun), but rather a promise. It's a promise to those surrounding be unified as Americans if needed.
What do you think?
What do you think?
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Please read the First Amendment. Then cite where it refers to restricting businesses from creating policy that would limit behavior of employees’ regarding free speech.
I’ll give you a hint. It doesn’t. The First Amendment bars the Federal government from enacting laws that in part limit free speech. It has absolutely nothing to do with private enterprise.
So apparently what you think “we all know” is actually wholly inaccurate.
CalBear
Footballguy
If you are actually interested in this topic, you can look at Thornhill v. Alabama, Republic Aviation, NLRB v. Le Tourneau.
One passage of the court finding in favor of the employeees; "[t]he respondent advances no cogent reason nor special circumstance in justification of its abrogation of its employees' right to self-organization and of their normal freedom of speech and action by the act of coming upon its premises. '"
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Those cases have nothing to do with the subject at hand. One is about the right to picket (a man was arrested for lawfully picketing - in other words, the government acted in an illegal manner) and the other is about the right to attempt to organize a union and soliciting for such at the employers’ venue. That is specifically a codified labor law issue.
Keep tilting!
.
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Elevencents
Footballguy
Oh no here we go again. 
irish eyes
Footballguy
I dont recall Craepernick protesting in front of any police stations. Coward just wears stupid pig socks and takes his money & non disclosure and runs. Loser of epic proportions.
daveR
Footballguy
There are none so blind as those who will not see. https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS744US744&ei=9FxwXIauAseP8wXww5agAg&q=kaepernick+charity&oq=kaepernick+charity&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l3j0i22i30l7.2917.5680..11418...0.0..0.154.933.2j6......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i131j0i67.rh-dn-GCKWs
daveR
Footballguy
So, Freedom of Speech is not part of the constitution? If not, I will bow out now.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I’ll ask again, since you seem not to know. What does the First Amendment say, and who does it protect us from? It’s not rhetorical. Given your responses, I honestly believe that you don’t know.
daveR
Footballguy
Many times I have asked this & nobody has responded. Since you are making judgments from behind a computer screen with, apparently, little knowledge of what's really going on, maybe you will be the one who responds... 1) Are there racist cops in America? 2) Why?irish eyes said:
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Free of Speech in terms of freedom from government prosecution? Yes. Obviously. And everyone should know that, just as everyone should know that the Bill of Rights outlines protections from the government. That does not carry over to the work place in many instances.
Freedom of speech in the work place? Only so much as labor laws apply - most specifically in organizing unions and most definitely not regarding protection from discrimination and sexual harassment, and from creation of corporate policy that would address restriction of certain types of speech.
I appreciate your acknowledgement though. Maybe we can have a better foundation for further discussion now.
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daveR
Footballguy
I seem to recall a ruling that says employers cannot force their employees to take a specific political stance. True?
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I believe that is true, and also that companies can terminate employees for being politically active in the work place.
irish eyes
Footballguy
Yes I'm sure there are racist cops in America. That doesn't answer why he hasn't protested in front of police stations or took the money and ran. His girlfriend is a racist, calling an owner a slave trader/owner & former players uncle tom. But I'm sure that can be spun to defend him and her.
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daveR
Footballguy
Elevencents
Footballguy
This is seriously off the rails now. Can we at least move it out of the Shark pool? I personally am sick of seeing this thread at the top of the page all the time.
Why do you keep suggesting we “allow” it, when the answer could be as simple as “we don’t have a reliable test for racism that is admissible to the employment screening process for public employees?”
Seems like the most plausible answer is somewhere between “they hide their racism well” and “insufficient proof to permit a firing.” It’s justifiably hard to fire a government employee after all.
What does this have to do with Kaep’s NFL career? Was he advocating a particular screening process for police hiring that we need to take a look at? Or is this just a deflection.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
Probably belongs in the PF at this point. The thread is well past the point of having anything to do with NFL play.
daveR
Footballguy
Because racists are motivated to harm non-white people. Kinda simple really, and the crux of the topic. There should be pre-employment screening in place for this disability as well as active programs to root out the bad cops. This is not something that should be accepted with a wink & a nod.
Here in Cleveland, and elsewhere I would guess,, part of the problem is funding. Because of the cost of training, many times they hire cops who were trained by suburban departments but are no longer with that suburb for some reason.
Once again, this is not about "The Cops", but rather the individual bad cops. I have known both. My bro-in-law is a cop & one of the most excellent people I have ever known.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
How exactly do you intend to test police candidates for this? And at what point does recognizing that certain groups commit a disproportionate amount of crime, particularly violent crime, and factoring that into a person’s judgment and behavior become racism?
But that’s a whole different topic that has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand here. I suspect you know that and are simply using the well worn and tiresome tactic of changing subjects when the debate isn’t going your way.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Even black racists? And latino racists? And Asian racists? etc ad naseum. And a person can be a racist and have no violent intent towards another person at all. I guess you’d prefer the discussion move into the theater of the absurd. I’m not going to join in. Hopefully no one else will gratify you with responses either. And it ceratinly doesn’t belong in the Shark Pool.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Damn. Kap actually was proven correct.
The NFL had some dirty-dirty laundry.
The NFL had some dirty-dirty laundry.
squistion
Footballguy
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/02/26/20-million-for-colin-kaepernick-isnt-an-unreasonable-request-from-aaf-xfl/
$20 million for Colin Kaepernick isn’t an unreasonable request from AAF, XFL
The anti-Kaepernick crowd has made plenty of hay over the quarterback’s reported request of $20 million or more from the Alliance of American Football and the XFL. That number, they shout in 280 characters or less, reflects how unreasonable he’s being, which proves how unreasonable he’s been in whatever false-narrative demands he’s made from any NFL teams that may have been interested in him over the last two years.
Setting aside the various and sundry phony facts that many fans and some media have attached to Kaepernick since he became a free agent in March 2017 (e.g., “HE OPTED OUT!”), seeking a $1-million-more-than-Blake-Bortles-made-last-year payout from the duo of upstart leagues is hardly unreasonable. First, these leagues need quarterbacks who can play at an acceptable level. The AAF obviously doesn’t have enough, if it has any. The XFL currently has none at all.
Second, Kaepernick would put asses in seats and eyeballs on screens. That’s a tangible dollars-and-cents benefit to whichever league lands him, which at a minimum justifies a careful economic analysis as to whether paying Kaepernick $20 million would directly and/or indirectly generate more than $20 million in revenue. From ticket sales to increased ratings to jersey sales (Nike recently sold out its first run of no-team Kaepernick jerseys), Kaepernick’s presence would provide either league a significant boost.
Third, if one league gets him, the other league doesn’t. At a time when it’s unclear whether the American market will support one much less two pro football junior leagues from February to April, putting Kaepernick under contract would give one a tremendous eye over the other.
Fourth, there’s no indication that Kaepernick’s reported request represents anything other than an opener. If he asked for $20 million and both the AAF and the XFL refused to budge from their rigid, predetermined salary structures, there would be no negotiation and, in turn, no reduction by Kaepernick toward $17 million or $15 million or $12 million or $10 million.
Fifth, as it relates to the XFL, committing to the league now would necessarily mean foregoing any opportunity to play in the NFL this year, since he’d surely become the centerpiece of the new league’s marketing efforts, and for good reason. The more that the XFL uses him to market its coming season, the more money the XFL will make on the back end.
Sixth, Kaepernick is taking a heightened physical risk by playing in either league, given that the offensive line play in the AAF currently stinks, and there’s no reason to think that it will be any better in the XFL, Kaepernick could be more likely to suffer injury by playing in the AAF or the XFL. For a guy who holds out hope of playing in the NFL, there’s value in assuming heightened injury risk.
So for those reasons, and possibly others I haven’t thought of, Kaepernick’s $20 million demand — an apparent opening position in negotiations — isn’t unreasonable. But none of what I’ve just typed will change the minds of anyone who made their minds up about him months ago and stubbornly refuse to adopt a new way of thinking about any aspect of his situation.
$20 million for Colin Kaepernick isn’t an unreasonable request from AAF, XFL
The anti-Kaepernick crowd has made plenty of hay over the quarterback’s reported request of $20 million or more from the Alliance of American Football and the XFL. That number, they shout in 280 characters or less, reflects how unreasonable he’s being, which proves how unreasonable he’s been in whatever false-narrative demands he’s made from any NFL teams that may have been interested in him over the last two years.
Setting aside the various and sundry phony facts that many fans and some media have attached to Kaepernick since he became a free agent in March 2017 (e.g., “HE OPTED OUT!”), seeking a $1-million-more-than-Blake-Bortles-made-last-year payout from the duo of upstart leagues is hardly unreasonable. First, these leagues need quarterbacks who can play at an acceptable level. The AAF obviously doesn’t have enough, if it has any. The XFL currently has none at all.
Second, Kaepernick would put asses in seats and eyeballs on screens. That’s a tangible dollars-and-cents benefit to whichever league lands him, which at a minimum justifies a careful economic analysis as to whether paying Kaepernick $20 million would directly and/or indirectly generate more than $20 million in revenue. From ticket sales to increased ratings to jersey sales (Nike recently sold out its first run of no-team Kaepernick jerseys), Kaepernick’s presence would provide either league a significant boost.
Third, if one league gets him, the other league doesn’t. At a time when it’s unclear whether the American market will support one much less two pro football junior leagues from February to April, putting Kaepernick under contract would give one a tremendous eye over the other.
Fourth, there’s no indication that Kaepernick’s reported request represents anything other than an opener. If he asked for $20 million and both the AAF and the XFL refused to budge from their rigid, predetermined salary structures, there would be no negotiation and, in turn, no reduction by Kaepernick toward $17 million or $15 million or $12 million or $10 million.
Fifth, as it relates to the XFL, committing to the league now would necessarily mean foregoing any opportunity to play in the NFL this year, since he’d surely become the centerpiece of the new league’s marketing efforts, and for good reason. The more that the XFL uses him to market its coming season, the more money the XFL will make on the back end.
Sixth, Kaepernick is taking a heightened physical risk by playing in either league, given that the offensive line play in the AAF currently stinks, and there’s no reason to think that it will be any better in the XFL, Kaepernick could be more likely to suffer injury by playing in the AAF or the XFL. For a guy who holds out hope of playing in the NFL, there’s value in assuming heightened injury risk.
So for those reasons, and possibly others I haven’t thought of, Kaepernick’s $20 million demand — an apparent opening position in negotiations — isn’t unreasonable. But none of what I’ve just typed will change the minds of anyone who made their minds up about him months ago and stubbornly refuse to adopt a new way of thinking about any aspect of his situation.
How was he proven to be correct? It's hilarious people keep saying this considering the details of the settlement were not made public.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
A career .500 QB complaining about the performance of other QBs. This thread is never going to end.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
They paid him.
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
All of the figures you read are pure speculation. It could have been $10 to go away for all anyone knows.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
I didnt even have posts in this thread prior to this outcome. I didn't really care either way.
But to for the NFL to pay him off is him winning. And its surprising.
But to for the NFL to pay him off is him winning. And its surprising.
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BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
To anyone that has been paying attention this isn't shocking and why Trump so hates Kaepernick.
From Cohen's testimony:
From Cohen's testimony:
Heartbreaking and sickening.
squistion
Footballguy
:(
Jaidyn Etheart @jaidyn_e Feb 27
once again, racism being justified . one of the teachers at our school put up a Colin Kaepernick door piece FOR black history month, and the school claimed it was “offensive” and she was forced to take it down.
https://twitter.com/jaidyn_e/status/1100807592501231618 (video clip of door piece being removed by teacher at link)
Jaidyn Etheart @jaidyn_e Feb 27
once again, racism being justified . one of the teachers at our school put up a Colin Kaepernick door piece FOR black history month, and the school claimed it was “offensive” and she was forced to take it down.
https://twitter.com/jaidyn_e/status/1100807592501231618 (video clip of door piece being removed by teacher at link)
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Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
And probably why they determined it was offensive. Imagine a white teacher had put that up.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
GROOT
Footballguy
Colin Kaepernick and Nike have exploited black people for personal gain in this whole process.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
squistion
Footballguy
That wasn't why it was deemed offensive and had to be removed If it had been a photo of Kaep, there would have been the same result. The complaints voiced indicated it had to do with the controversy involving Kaep's kneeling protest.
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/432243-florida-teacher-forced-to-remove-kaepernick-poster-because
Florida teacher forced to remove Kaepernick poster because people found it 'offensive'
[...]
Michael Riley, a spokesman for the Charlotte County School District, told the magazine that Perry’s poster prompted “somewhat of a disruption” around the school’s campus and an outpouring of criticism from many in the local community.
“When the poster was put up, several students posted it to social media. This caused somewhat of a disruption at the school,” Riley told People. “Colin, whether he intended to by his kneeling protest, has become a very controversial, decisive personality.”
“If you recall, our President stated that he disrespected our nation and our flag, asking citizens to boycott the NFL and Nike. We also had an equal number in our nation who observed his actions as a silent, peaceful protest against unfair racial treatment,” he continued.
Riley went on to say that the district continued to receive a number of “negative” emails and phone calls over the poster despite having it removed.
“Our school [is] a microcosm of our society. If we had left the poster up, calls to the school and negative emails to the district would have continued citing their feelings of disrespect for our nation and flag,” Riley said.
squistion
Footballguy
Being a caricature had nothing to do with it being removed from any news account I have seen.
It was deemed disruptive obviously because it offended the anti-kneeling crowd.
Like it or not, Kaepernick has become an icon for African Americans and it is absurd he should not be honored in a display as part of Black History Month.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Icon? Come again
Sconch
Footballguy
jonessed
Footballguy
Well, obviously. A lot of people see him as anti-law enforcement and anti-military. That’s going to be devisive. I doubt the school wants to get in the middle of that with an advertisement.
squistion
Footballguy
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter 2h2 hours ago
Former Bills’ QB JP Losman, now a 38-year-old offensive coach at Clemson, threw the ball to WRs/DBs so well at the school’s Pro Day today, that an NFL team actually asked him if he had any interest in coming back to the NFL, in which he last played a game in 2011. Losman declined
JP Losman?
Well, after all, he does stand for the anthem.
Former Bills’ QB JP Losman, now a 38-year-old offensive coach at Clemson, threw the ball to WRs/DBs so well at the school’s Pro Day today, that an NFL team actually asked him if he had any interest in coming back to the NFL, in which he last played a game in 2011. Losman declined
JP Losman?
Well, after all, he does stand for the anthem.
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