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Biabreakable

Dynasty Kareem Hunt Cleveland Browns

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10 hours ago, Borden said:

So far I've watched his games against BYU, W.Mich and the senior bowl.

Don't waste your time with the BYU game. The OL is complete trash. There's some plays where it seems like there's a mutiny against the QB and the OL isn't blocking on purpose. The Senior Bowl was nice but it can't be taken too seriously. The Western Michigan game is good. Hunt gets dinged in his NFL.com Draft Profile for not finishing with authority, which is true, but he's not going down easy either. He's still fighting for yards. Lots of NFL backs end runs the same Hunt does though, the roll and fall. 

My big knocks on Hunt are his pass protection (it's pretty bad) and his transition to NFL competition. I think some of his power and elusiveness is over exaggerated due a the low level of competition. 

Is pass protection really a big problem with Hunt? I have not heard much about this being an issue but agree that if a rookie RB can't pass protect it is hard to see the field.

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The more I think about it, and the more I read and watch, I'm starting to lean towards Hunt at the 1.07. But, I own Ware and West, and my TE's are Reed, Ertz, and Rudolph, so while I'd really like to draft OJ Howard, it seems like Hunt would fit in better.

My problem is that I like to take best player available, and I'm starting to think that Hunt just may be the best available, regardless of how he fits into my lineup.

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18 hours ago, -OZ- said:

Gotta respect your attempts to drive his price down. I'm sitting at 1.11 and would like him to fall to me. 

I'm just trying to debunk the ridiculous assertion that Reid is such a plus for RB situations. These forums are actually worthless at this point when someone can't present a counter-argument without being accused of having an ulterior motive. (which is I think related to one of the biggest problems I have with the dynasty FF community in general. People who don't *love* a prospect face far too much backlash. The Shark Pool is just one of the many places I've encountered this. Which is ridiculous because MOST PROSPECTS FAIL! The default should analysis assumes otherwise) 

17 hours ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

Okay, given your posts and how invested you are given the number of responses lately, I am interpretting this as you stating there is absolutely no chance that Hunt is successful.  Is that correct?

What? When did I ever say that Hunt has absolutely no chance at being successful. I'm just saying that being drafted by Reid isn't as much as a benefit as others in this thread are suggesting. Again, people are interpreting any counter argument or lukewarm take as hate. I never said Hunt is destined to fail, just that he's a marginal (i.e. non-elite) talent. 

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1 minute ago, maf005 said:

I'm just trying to debunk the ridiculous assertion that Reid is such a plus for RB situations. These forums are actually worthless at this point when someone can't present a counter-argument without being accused of having an ulterior motive. (which is I think related to one of the biggest problems I have with the dynasty FF community in general. People who don't *love* a prospect face far too much backlash. The Shark Pool is just one of the many places I've encountered this. Which is ridiculous because MOST PROSPECTS FAIL! The default should analysis assumes otherwise) 

What? When did I ever say that Hunt has absolutely no chance at being successful. I'm just saying that being drafted by Reid isn't as much as a benefit as others in this thread are suggesting. Again, people are interpreting any counter argument or lukewarm take as hate. I never said Hunt is destined to fail, just that he's a marginal (i.e. non-elite) talent. 

If that's how you're using the term marginal, ok. Usually people use it to describe players at the fringes (or margins) of rosters, bench players who might have a role when needed but that's about the best you can expect. 

Hunt is not elite, sure.  IMO he's a slightly better than average nfl rb. Similar to Perkins, Jeremy Hill, and rawls.  A player who can and should produce in the right system. Like the type of offense Reid usually creates. 

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22 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

If that's how you're using the term marginal, ok. Usually people use it to describe players at the fringes (or margins) of rosters, bench players who might have a role when needed but that's about the best you can expect. 

Hunt is not elite, sure.  IMO he's a slightly better than average nfl rb. Similar to Perkins, Jeremy Hill, and rawls.  A player who can and should produce in the right system. Like the type of offense Reid usually creates. 

Those three (perkins, hill, and rawls) are all below average to bad athletes who are long-shots to have any sort of sustained success. Similar to spencer ware. I don't see Hunt being any better than Ware, and it's rare for non-elite rbs to beat out incumbents 

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On 5/10/2017 at 8:37 AM, Dr. Octopus said:

Reid was not the HC of the Chiefs during the early part of Charles' career. Todd Haley was the one giving carries to a washed up Thomas Jones over Charles. Reid has only been in KC for three seasons.

I didn't say anything about many years ago. I said the past few years (reid has been there three years).  But to not pick nits, the overall point is we all know this happens with Reid and we all know the whole "Hey coach, why did [player x) only get 7 touches today?  REDI: "that's on me. that player is too good. I need to get him more involved. That's on me." speech he gives. 

 

Point being, it IS going to happen to even players who were great at the time he forgot about them. So how does a rookie come in and solidify that spot for every week value unless he comes out like Zeke or something?  It was more of an observation that a remark towards Hunt. 

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2 hours ago, kutta said:

The more I think about it, and the more I read and watch, I'm starting to lean towards Hunt at the 1.07. But, I own Ware and West, and my TE's are Reed, Ertz, and Rudolph, so while I'd really like to draft OJ Howard, it seems like Hunt would fit in better.

My problem is that I like to take best player available, and I'm starting to think that Hunt just may be the best available, regardless of how he fits into my lineup.

Those are always the best picks. When BPA and need align.

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2 hours ago, maf005 said:

I'm just trying to debunk the ridiculous assertion that Reid is such a plus for RB situations. These forums are actually worthless at this point when someone can't present a counter-argument without being accused of having an ulterior motive. (which is I think related to one of the biggest problems I have with the dynasty FF community in general. People who don't *love* a prospect face far too much backlash. The Shark Pool is just one of the many places I've encountered this. Which is ridiculous because MOST PROSPECTS FAIL! The default should analysis assumes otherwise) 

What? When did I ever say that Hunt has absolutely no chance at being successful. I'm just saying that being drafted by Reid isn't as much as a benefit as others in this thread are suggesting. Again, people are interpreting any counter argument or lukewarm take as hate. I never said Hunt is destined to fail, just that he's a marginal (i.e. non-elite) talent. 

Your point is well taken and we could all be a bit more thick skinned when someone offers a different point of view. I think some times it is how a message is delivered, or a certain point of that which people react to, more than the overall argument, that makes more sense the way you put it above.

When I looked over the history of Andy Reids career (which I was going to do if I shared that information in discussion or not) I tried to just present the information without opinion or interpretation. To let others decide what that information means to them. To me the main thing that information shows, is that Andy Reid does not have a history of RBBC and that when he has a primary RB, he will stick with that player for several years. 

Now maybe Ware or Hunt are not good enough players to become that featured RB. Maybe it is Ware and not Hunt. Maybe it is Hunt and not Ware. I just don't see this being a RBBC indefinitely. One of these RB will win the majority share imo. I also think Hunt fits the profile of the type of RB who has done that with Reid more than Ware does, but this is something more debatable to me as Ware has been a good player. (we could debate how small sample sizes have made Wares efficiency numbers look better than he is actually is though)

Possible Andy has changed his perspective about RBBC in recent years and wants to use it more than he has in the past. If that is the case it would invalidate looking at the history of the coach and how he has assigned opportunity for his players in the past. Coaches can change. What I would say to that argument however is that there is more evidence of Reid not using a RBBC than there is evidence of him using one.

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3 hours ago, maf005 said:

 

What? When did I ever say that Hunt has absolutely no chance at being successful. I'm just saying that being drafted by Reid isn't as much as a benefit as others in this thread are suggesting. Again, people are interpreting any counter argument or lukewarm take as hate. I never said Hunt is destined to fail, just that he's a marginal (i.e. non-elite) talent. 

 

I didn't say anything about hate.  Stop playing the victim.  I just want to make sure that I understand you.

You stated in your response that I quoted that Hunt has submarginal talent.  Here are your exact words:  "Marginal talent" is generous given his athletic profile.  Your words, not mine.  Submarginal talent is not going to translate to success in the NFL.  

 

 

.

Edited by Bronco Billy

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The combine measurements argument does not resonate with me  when you consider that Westbrook and McCoy did not have good combine numbers either, this did not prevent them from becoming featured RB in Reids offense, so I don't see why that would be a reason for Hunt to fail.

Westrbrook is actually one of the examples of the combine metrics not matching the player on the field. At the same time if Westbrook been drafted by another team, he may not have become the star he is known to be now in fantasy circles. With a lot of other coaches Westbrook might have been more of COP than he was with Reid.

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ESPN Chiefs reporter Adam Teicher foresees third-round pick Kareem Hunt leading the team in rushing this season and leading Kansas City's running backs in receptions.

In other words, Teicher expects Hunt to become the Chiefs' feature back as a rookie, supplanting Spencer Ware. It's just a beat writer guess in May, but notable nonetheless. The Chiefs traded up to draft Hunt in the third round, and Ware tailed off after a hot start to last season. Charcandrick West should settle in as Kansas City's third-string back this year.
 
 
May 19 - 10:59 PM

 

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Kansas City Star reports third-round Chiefs RB Kareem Hunt has "already impressed with his short-area burst and balance."

Reporter Terez Paylor's observation comes four days after ESPN Chiefs reporter Adam Teicher predicted Hunt would both lead the Chiefs in rushing and lead the backfield in receptions. Hunt has a legitimate stumbling block in Spencer Ware, but the highest back ever drafted by Andy Reid in Kansas City, he's going to get a chance to make his mark as a rookie.
 
 
May 23 - 7:00 PM

 

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On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 7:18 PM, maf005 said:

Buckhalter's best season: 642 rush yards, 31 catches, 24 reception yards, 1 td

Duce had 3 good (likely top 10 PPR seasons at the time) seasons only. During those 3 he averaged under 4.0 ypc

Which year of Buckhalter would you classify as highly productive?

Buckhalter was a backup that suffered multiple serious injuries throughout his career. I'm not sure why he's even being used as a reference point.

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Buckhalter was pretty good in limited duty his rookie season, averaged 4.5 ypc and broke the eagle's record for rushing yards by a rookie. Then he blew out his knee in the offseason and was never able to stay healthy ever again. This was long before Peterson coming back from an ACL, back then ACL's were the kiss of death for a lot of players.

 

As already rebutted by some other folks, Staley put up 1500 yfs in multiple years for Reid. I would definitely call that productive even if his ypc was relatively low. Two of those three 1500 yard seasons were in his first two seasons as the starter as he sat behind Ricky Waters as a rookie. Then he suffered a lisfranc and its a miracle he ever saw the field again, much less put up another 1500 yfs season.

Edited by Buckna

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I think this discussion along with the Hill and Conley threads show that the KC offense is incredibly volatile this year after the Maclin release with the only safe bet being that Kelce is gonna get his.

I think that, barring injury, one of Ware, Hunt or Hill is gonna finish with a top 20 overall fantasy season.  Yes, I know I am throwing 2 RBs and one WR into the same discussion, but I think a lot of Hill's game supplants/competes with portions of the run game.

Reid seems to be on a crusade for quickness and speed this offseason.  As anyone can glean from my posts, my money is on Hill.

Assuming health for all players, I predict that Hill is a top 12 WR (WR1), and Hunt and Ware both turn out to be RB 2/3s.

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On 7/26/2017 at 5:04 AM, krsone21 said:
Quote

“The thing I’m really pumped about is I feel like (Hunt) has picked up the pass game and the protection and that’s normally what’s the hardest for young backs protecting the pass game,” Smith said in quotes distributed by the Chiefs on Tuesday. “But as far as all that stuff, once the ball is in his hands he looks good in shorts. We’re all excited to see how he’s doing.”

You usually don't hear positive comments about pass protection this early on in the process. A good sign as far as Hunt earning playing time early.

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I'm extremely high on this guy. I see him as a Ray Rice type (on the field).

 

From Rotoworld:

Kareem Hunt getting more first-team reps

Arrowhead Pride's Pete Sweeney reports third-round RB Kareem Hunt continues to see more first-team reps at Chiefs camp.

It is not a surprise after coach Andy Reid said Hunt has been a quick study early in camp. After seeing his increasing workload, Sweeney is "starting to think" Hunt could win the starting job during the preseason, which would mean beating out Spencer Ware. This will be one of the most important fantasy battles to watch during the preseason.

Source: Pete Sweeney on Twitter

Aug 8 - 11:23 AM

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2 hours ago, dmac37 said:

I'm extremely high on this guy. I see him as a Ray Rice type (on the field).

 

From Rotoworld:

Kareem Hunt getting more first-team reps

Arrowhead Pride's Pete Sweeney reports third-round RB Kareem Hunt continues to see more first-team reps at Chiefs camp.

It is not a surprise after coach Andy Reid said Hunt has been a quick study early in camp. After seeing his increasing workload, Sweeney is "starting to think" Hunt could win the starting job during the preseason, which would mean beating out Spencer Ware. This will be one of the most important fantasy battles to watch during the preseason.

Source: Pete Sweeney on Twitter

Aug 8 - 11:23 AM

nice post, thanks! Let's face it Ware is a JAG (Just Another Guy) and Hunt could win this job easily. Given their move to make Hill a #1 WR in their offense, they need playmakers in the passing game at the line of scrimmage. Hunt better fits that role than Ware. 

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What do we make of the lack of offensive involvement for Hunt in the first pre-season game? Being a rookie that has been talked about getting first team reps, I settled in front of the TV expecting to see him getting a lot of work. He only ends up with 1 carry and 1 reception, this seems a little concerning considering the expectations for him.

I would love to think they are "saving" him for the regular season but it does not look like that.

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On 8/8/2017 at 2:38 PM, hoffman0001 said:

nice post, thanks! Let's face it Ware is a JAG (Just Another Guy) and Hunt could win this job easily. Given their move to make Hill a #1 WR in their offense, they need playmakers in the passing game at the line of scrimmage. Hunt better fits that role than Ware. 

at his best, pre-concussion, Ware looks far better than a JAG.

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As a big Hunt investor, I was not happy with his usage. Ware got the goal line conversion which creates a high floor for him. The tell will be the third preseason game: if Hunt gets two touches in that game also then we are looking at dead weight on our bench until midseason at the earliest. Hoping for heavy usage over the next few weeks. 

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On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 0:34 PM, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

Over valued in redraft...ware starts early in the season...hunt could get worked in but it might take an injury for him to have real value in redraft

Agreed on over valued or over hopeful in some people cases. just feels like one of those times where you think the rookie could and should take over but he doesn't.  Ware has skills, not JAG imo. 

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I've though Hunt was overrated from the start.  He has a very similar athletic profile to Ware, but was 12 lbs lighter at the combine.  I was actually surprised he came in so light, because he appeared to be in the 225-230lbs range.  With that I gave Ware the edge and traded for him in one league.

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Lot of week 1 PS panicking going on.  Reid did call him a reserve after his recovery of a punt block, but I'm of the opinion that talent will win out.  It's just a matter of when.

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Opinions on that talent vary.  He went 1.10, 1.12, 2.2, 2.7 and 2.8 in my leagues.  I had him ranked 18th.   I viewed him as someone who might get an opportunity, but I felt Ware would be able to hold him off.  This one game hasn't changed anything for me as of yet, because I haven't seen him play.  I don't expect him to look better than Ware, but if he does I will change the way I view him.

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I have not bought the Hunt hype. I'm drafting Ware in every draft, late 5th and anywhere in the 6th. I'm not drafting Hunt. You can draft a solid WR2 where Hunt is going in every draft.

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1 hour ago, Ojaays said:

I have not bought the Hunt hype. I'm drafting Ware in every draft, late 5th and anywhere in the 6th. I'm not drafting Hunt. You can draft a solid WR2 where Hunt is going in every draft.

 

???  Hunt's ADP right now has him sitting right in the thick of the WR4s.  He's going a full 2 rounds after Ware.

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I still like Hunt a lot and I will continue drafting him at what I perceive as value.

One preseason game hasn't changed my outlook on this at all. I have always viewed Ware as a significant obstacle for Hunts playing time this year. I still like Hunt in redraft though.

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7 hours ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

???  Hunt's ADP right now has him sitting right in the thick of the WR4s.  He's going a full 2 rounds after Ware.

I picked Ware @ 6.7 and Hunt went at the end of round 6 in a recent high stakes draft.

in ALL other high stakes drafts I've done(4) Hunt was picked in the 8th round in everyone. There are still plenty of solid WRs there.

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5 minutes ago, Ojaays said:

I picked Ware @ 6.7 and Hunt went at the end of round 6 in a recent high stakes draft.

in ALL other high stakes drafts I've done(4) Hunt was picked in the 8th round in everyone. There are still plenty of solid WRs there.

https://fantasyfootballcalculator.com/adp?format=ppr&year=2017&teams=12&view=graph&pos=all

8.05 according to the chart. Would you rather have desean Jackson, Meredith or Tyrell Williams?  Solid players but bb is right.

7 hours ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

???  Hunt's ADP right now has him sitting right in the thick of the WR4s.  He's going a full 2 rounds after Ware.

 

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I'd rather have all 3 of those WRs , I have also drafted Maclin and Garçon after Hunt .

They all finish with more fantasy points than Hunt.

Its hard to score points as the backup. Ware is the guy there.

Edited by Ojaays

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2 hours ago, Ojaays said:

I'd rather have all 3 of those WRs , I have also drafted Maclin and Garçon after Hunt .

They all finish with more fantasy points than Hunt.

Its hard to score points as the backup. Ware is the guy there.

You know this isn't how VBD works right?

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Sorry doc, I see no value in drafting a backup in the 8th round when I can draft starters that are dead nuts guaranteed to get 100 targets.

Edited by Ojaays

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On 8/15/2017 at 6:18 PM, Ojaays said:

Sorry doc, I see no value in drafting a backup in the 8th round when I can draft starters that are dead nuts guaranteed to get 100 targets.

At this point Hunt is still a lottery ticket so I agree the 8th round is a still a little early however I have seen him go higher in a handcuff situation to Ware owners. As far as the RB lottery ticket choices go he is one of the best but I'd just as soon wait a couple more rounds and target Jamaal Williams or DOnta Foreman if I were going to buy a lottery ticket.

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7 hours ago, beerbuff said:

At this point Hunt is still a lottery ticket so I agree the 8th round is a still a little early however I have seen him go higher in a handcuff situation to Ware owners. As far as the RB lottery ticket choices go he is one of the best but I'd just as soon wait a couple more rounds and target Jamaal Williams or DOnta Foreman if I were going to buy a lottery ticket.

Exactly. And you can add to the list:

Thomas Rawls, Jonathan Williams, Rex Burkhead, Jaquizz Rogers, Jalen Richard, D'andre Washington, Tim Hightower.

All of those are round 10 or later. There's a good chance all of those guys out point Hunt = value.

Edited by Ojaays

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1 hour ago, Ojaays said:

Exactly. And you can add to the list:

Thomas Rawls, Jonathan Williams, Rex Burkhead, Jaquizz Rogers, Jalen Richard, D'andre Washington, Tim Hightower.

All of those are round 10 or later. There's a good chance all of those guys out point Hunt = value.

We'll disagree on that point, but that's why we play the game.

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 The slots I will be drafting in this year in a couple leagues, Spencer Ware is going to be one of my targets.

 I will also target Kareem Hunt , later on in the drafts.  Regardless of if you believe in handcuffing, one strategy I have used (and it can eliminate some late season headaches) is locking up a specific backfield. I wrote about this in other threads, and several of us have debated it, but it is slightly different than handcuffing.

 

Anyway, since I am going to undoubtedly be getting Ware in a few spots, I will also be "on the hunt, for Hunt."  Looks like a perfect backfield to try and lock up, and the fact that Andy Reid has no issues run, run, running.

 From the little bit I saw tonight, Hunt looks a bit smaller than what I remembered. Maybe he is just a bit thinner than what I had thought. He seemed to have a decent showing, but he almost looked out of sorts. Several times I saw him getting "knocked around". He seems to be what I classify as a "loose runner".  He doesn't mind jumping or leaping a bit and he doesn't really shy away from contact, but he certainly isn't the "run you over"  type. He may not be "super flashy", but he looks like a great volume play to me, and if things shake out right here in K.C., he could get a ton of work.

I hope the hype generally stays DOWN . One of my buddies from several of my leagues was asking me about Hunt tonight.  He isn't the most savvy owner, (I assume he just watched tonight) so people are starting to take notice....and not the type of people that frequent this board either.

The bad news, is he seems to be entering the "more popular" handcuffs status, for those that look for that sort of thing. Not like Derrick Henry (who seems to have dropped off people's radars this year and is going late in my opinion), but still one of the more popular cuff type backs.

He is getting expensive, and seems to be rising a bit by the day. Although his ADP is currently 96 on fantasy pros, but he seems to be going earlier than that in every mock I have done. So he is creeping on up.

 This will likely be one of the backfields I target, but I hate having to reach, and this is looking more and more like a case where I will have to reach to acquire both.

After tonight, I will be interested in exactly how much action he gets the rest of the preseason.

 

 TZM

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On 8/20/2017 at 1:49 AM, Biabreakable said:

The Chiefs sure used the heck out of him on that drive.  He looked pretty good IMO. I thought he may have missed some yards on two of his first three rushes where it looked like there were big holes on the left side of the o-line but I like the way he lowers his pad level as he hits the pile and he seems to carry the ball very securely.  Solid stiff arm too.

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