dmac37
Footballguy
Is pass protection really a big problem with Hunt? I have not heard much about this being an issue but agree that if a rookie RB can't pass protect it is hard to see the field.
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RB Kareem Hunt, CLE (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Biabreakable
- Start date
kutta
Footballguy
The more I think about it, and the more I read and watch, I'm starting to lean towards Hunt at the 1.07. But, I own Ware and West, and my TE's are Reed, Ertz, and Rudolph, so while I'd really like to draft OJ Howard, it seems like Hunt would fit in better.
My problem is that I like to take best player available, and I'm starting to think that Hunt just may be the best available, regardless of how he fits into my lineup.
My problem is that I like to take best player available, and I'm starting to think that Hunt just may be the best available, regardless of how he fits into my lineup.
I'm just trying to debunk the ridiculous assertion that Reid is such a plus for RB situations. These forums are actually worthless at this point when someone can't present a counter-argument without being accused of having an ulterior motive. (which is I think related to one of the biggest problems I have with the dynasty FF community in general. People who don't *love* a prospect face far too much backlash. The Shark Pool is just one of the many places I've encountered this. Which is ridiculous because MOST PROSPECTS FAIL! The default should analysis assumes otherwise)-OZ- said:
What? When did I ever say that Hunt has absolutely no chance at being successful. I'm just saying that being drafted by Reid isn't as much as a benefit as others in this thread are suggesting. Again, people are interpreting any counter argument or lukewarm take as hate. I never said Hunt is destined to fail, just that he's a marginal (i.e. non-elite) talent.Bronco Billy said:
-OZ-
Footballguy
If that's how you're using the term marginal, ok. Usually people use it to describe players at the fringes (or margins) of rosters, bench players who might have a role when needed but that's about the best you can expect.
Hunt is not elite, sure. IMO he's a slightly better than average nfl rb. Similar to Perkins, Jeremy Hill, and rawls. A player who can and should produce in the right system. Like the type of offense Reid usually creates.
Those three (perkins, hill, and rawls) are all below average to bad athletes who are long-shots to have any sort of sustained success. Similar to spencer ware. I don't see Hunt being any better than Ware, and it's rare for non-elite rbs to beat out incumbents
Shutout
Footballguy
I didn't say anything about many years ago. I said the past few years (reid has been there three years). But to not pick nits, the overall point is we all know this happens with Reid and we all know the whole "Hey coach, why did [player x) only get 7 touches today? REDI: "that's on me. that player is too good. I need to get him more involved. That's on me." speech he gives.
Point being, it IS going to happen to even players who were great at the time he forgot about them. So how does a rookie come in and solidify that spot for every week value unless he comes out like Zeke or something? It was more of an observation that a remark towards Hunt.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Your point is well taken and we could all be a bit more thick skinned when someone offers a different point of view. I think some times it is how a message is delivered, or a certain point of that which people react to, more than the overall argument, that makes more sense the way you put it above.
When I looked over the history of Andy Reids career (which I was going to do if I shared that information in discussion or not) I tried to just present the information without opinion or interpretation. To let others decide what that information means to them. To me the main thing that information shows, is that Andy Reid does not have a history of RBBC and that when he has a primary RB, he will stick with that player for several years.
Now maybe Ware or Hunt are not good enough players to become that featured RB. Maybe it is Ware and not Hunt. Maybe it is Hunt and not Ware. I just don't see this being a RBBC indefinitely. One of these RB will win the majority share imo. I also think Hunt fits the profile of the type of RB who has done that with Reid more than Ware does, but this is something more debatable to me as Ware has been a good player. (we could debate how small sample sizes have made Wares efficiency numbers look better than he is actually is though)
Possible Andy has changed his perspective about RBBC in recent years and wants to use it more than he has in the past. If that is the case it would invalidate looking at the history of the coach and how he has assigned opportunity for his players in the past. Coaches can change. What I would say to that argument however is that there is more evidence of Reid not using a RBBC than there is evidence of him using one.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I didn't say anything about hate. Stop playing the victim. I just want to make sure that I understand you.
You stated in your response that I quoted that Hunt has submarginal talent. Here are your exact words: "Marginal talent" is generous given his athletic profile. Your words, not mine. Submarginal talent is not going to translate to success in the NFL.
.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
The combine measurements argument does not resonate with me when you consider that Westbrook and McCoy did not have good combine numbers either, this did not prevent them from becoming featured RB in Reids offense, so I don't see why that would be a reason for Hunt to fail.
Westrbrook is actually one of the examples of the combine metrics not matching the player on the field. At the same time if Westbrook been drafted by another team, he may not have become the star he is known to be now in fantasy circles. With a lot of other coaches Westbrook might have been more of COP than he was with Reid.
Westrbrook is actually one of the examples of the combine metrics not matching the player on the field. At the same time if Westbrook been drafted by another team, he may not have become the star he is known to be now in fantasy circles. With a lot of other coaches Westbrook might have been more of COP than he was with Reid.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Buckhalter was a backup that suffered multiple serious injuries throughout his career. I'm not sure why he's even being used as a reference point.
Buckhalter was pretty good in limited duty his rookie season, averaged 4.5 ypc and broke the eagle's record for rushing yards by a rookie. Then he blew out his knee in the offseason and was never able to stay healthy ever again. This was long before Peterson coming back from an ACL, back then ACL's were the kiss of death for a lot of players.
As already rebutted by some other folks, Staley put up 1500 yfs in multiple years for Reid. I would definitely call that productive even if his ypc was relatively low. Two of those three 1500 yard seasons were in his first two seasons as the starter as he sat behind Ricky Waters as a rookie. Then he suffered a lisfranc and its a miracle he ever saw the field again, much less put up another 1500 yfs season.
As already rebutted by some other folks, Staley put up 1500 yfs in multiple years for Reid. I would definitely call that productive even if his ypc was relatively low. Two of those three 1500 yard seasons were in his first two seasons as the starter as he sat behind Ricky Waters as a rookie. Then he suffered a lisfranc and its a miracle he ever saw the field again, much less put up another 1500 yfs season.
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I think this discussion along with the Hill and Conley threads show that the KC offense is incredibly volatile this year after the Maclin release with the only safe bet being that Kelce is gonna get his.
I think that, barring injury, one of Ware, Hunt or Hill is gonna finish with a top 20 overall fantasy season. Yes, I know I am throwing 2 RBs and one WR into the same discussion, but I think a lot of Hill's game supplants/competes with portions of the run game.
Reid seems to be on a crusade for quickness and speed this offseason. As anyone can glean from my posts, my money is on Hill.
Assuming health for all players, I predict that Hill is a top 12 WR (WR1), and Hunt and Ware both turn out to be RB 2/3s.
I think that, barring injury, one of Ware, Hunt or Hill is gonna finish with a top 20 overall fantasy season. Yes, I know I am throwing 2 RBs and one WR into the same discussion, but I think a lot of Hill's game supplants/competes with portions of the run game.
Reid seems to be on a crusade for quickness and speed this offseason. As anyone can glean from my posts, my money is on Hill.
Assuming health for all players, I predict that Hill is a top 12 WR (WR1), and Hunt and Ware both turn out to be RB 2/3s.
Rookie_Whisperer
Footballguy
I REALLY like this guy for the dynasty rookie value and this video is just one more reason to be high on him.... Been grabbing him everywhere I can after 1.06 and will continue to do so.
https://twitter.com/ChiefsReporter/status/891756362014875648
https://twitter.com/ChiefsReporter/status/891756362014875648
Biabreakable
Footballguy
You usually don't hear positive comments about pass protection this early on in the process. A good sign as far as Hunt earning playing time early.
dmac37
Footballguy
I'm extremely high on this guy. I see him as a Ray Rice type (on the field).
From Rotoworld:
Kareem Hunt getting more first-team reps
Arrowhead Pride's Pete Sweeney reports third-round RB Kareem Hunt continues to see more first-team reps at Chiefs camp.
It is not a surprise after coach Andy Reid said Hunt has been a quick study early in camp. After seeing his increasing workload, Sweeney is "starting to think" Hunt could win the starting job during the preseason, which would mean beating out Spencer Ware. This will be one of the most important fantasy battles to watch during the preseason.
Source: Pete Sweeney on Twitter
Aug 8 - 11:23 AM
From Rotoworld:
Kareem Hunt getting more first-team reps
Arrowhead Pride's Pete Sweeney reports third-round RB Kareem Hunt continues to see more first-team reps at Chiefs camp.
It is not a surprise after coach Andy Reid said Hunt has been a quick study early in camp. After seeing his increasing workload, Sweeney is "starting to think" Hunt could win the starting job during the preseason, which would mean beating out Spencer Ware. This will be one of the most important fantasy battles to watch during the preseason.
Source: Pete Sweeney on Twitter
Aug 8 - 11:23 AM
hoffman0001
Footballguy
nice post, thanks! Let's face it Ware is a JAG (Just Another Guy) and Hunt could win this job easily. Given their move to make Hill a #1 WR in their offense, they need playmakers in the passing game at the line of scrimmage. Hunt better fits that role than Ware.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
and further...
Pete Sweeney @pgsween
Starting to think Kareem Hunt could potentially work himself into RB1 this preseason. Increasing work with first team as time goes on.
Pete Sweeney @pgsween
Starting to think Kareem Hunt could potentially work himself into RB1 this preseason. Increasing work with first team as time goes on.
dmac37
Footballguy
What do we make of the lack of offensive involvement for Hunt in the first pre-season game? Being a rookie that has been talked about getting first team reps, I settled in front of the TV expecting to see him getting a lot of work. He only ends up with 1 carry and 1 reception, this seems a little concerning considering the expectations for him.
I would love to think they are "saving" him for the regular season but it does not look like that.
I would love to think they are "saving" him for the regular season but it does not look like that.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
stuckinthemuck
Footballguy
As a big Hunt investor, I was not happy with his usage. Ware got the goal line conversion which creates a high floor for him. The tell will be the third preseason game: if Hunt gets two touches in that game also then we are looking at dead weight on our bench until midseason at the earliest. Hoping for heavy usage over the next few weeks.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Over valued in redraft...ware starts early in the season...hunt could get worked in but it might take an injury for him to have real value in redraft
mozzy84
Footballguy
Agreed on over valued or over hopeful in some people cases. just feels like one of those times where you think the rookie could and should take over but he doesn't. Ware has skills, not JAG imo.
Nero
Footballguy
I've though Hunt was overrated from the start. He has a very similar athletic profile to Ware, but was 12 lbs lighter at the combine. I was actually surprised he came in so light, because he appeared to be in the 225-230lbs range. With that I gave Ware the edge and traded for him in one league.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Lot of week 1 PS panicking going on. Reid did call him a reserve after his recovery of a punt block, but I'm of the opinion that talent will win out. It's just a matter of when.
Nero
Footballguy
Opinions on that talent vary. He went 1.10, 1.12, 2.2, 2.7 and 2.8 in my leagues. I had him ranked 18th. I viewed him as someone who might get an opportunity, but I felt Ware would be able to hold him off. This one game hasn't changed anything for me as of yet, because I haven't seen him play. I don't expect him to look better than Ware, but if he does I will change the way I view him.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
??? Hunt's ADP right now has him sitting right in the thick of the WR4s. He's going a full 2 rounds after Ware.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I still like Hunt a lot and I will continue drafting him at what I perceive as value.
One preseason game hasn't changed my outlook on this at all. I have always viewed Ware as a significant obstacle for Hunts playing time this year. I still like Hunt in redraft though.
One preseason game hasn't changed my outlook on this at all. I have always viewed Ware as a significant obstacle for Hunts playing time this year. I still like Hunt in redraft though.
I picked Ware @ 6.7 and Hunt went at the end of round 6 in a recent high stakes draft.
in ALL other high stakes drafts I've done(4) Hunt was picked in the 8th round in everyone. There are still plenty of solid WRs there.
-OZ-
Footballguy
https://fantasyfootballcalculator.com/adp?format=ppr&year=2017&teams=12&view=graph&pos=all
8.05 according to the chart. Would you rather have desean Jackson, Meredith or Tyrell Williams? Solid players but bb is right.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
beerbuff
Footballguy
At this point Hunt is still a lottery ticket so I agree the 8th round is a still a little early however I have seen him go higher in a handcuff situation to Ware owners. As far as the RB lottery ticket choices go he is one of the best but I'd just as soon wait a couple more rounds and target Jamaal Williams or DOnta Foreman if I were going to buy a lottery ticket.
Exactly. And you can add to the list:
Thomas Rawls, Jonathan Williams, Rex Burkhead, Jaquizz Rogers, Jalen Richard, D'andre Washington, Tim Hightower.
All of those are round 10 or later. There's a good chance all of those guys out point Hunt = value.
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TZMarkie
Footballguy
The slots I will be drafting in this year in a couple leagues, Spencer Ware is going to be one of my targets.
I will also target Kareem Hunt , later on in the drafts. Regardless of if you believe in handcuffing, one strategy I have used (and it can eliminate some late season headaches) is locking up a specific backfield. I wrote about this in other threads, and several of us have debated it, but it is slightly different than handcuffing.
Anyway, since I am going to undoubtedly be getting Ware in a few spots, I will also be "on the hunt, for Hunt." Looks like a perfect backfield to try and lock up, and the fact that Andy Reid has no issues run, run, running.
From the little bit I saw tonight, Hunt looks a bit smaller than what I remembered. Maybe he is just a bit thinner than what I had thought. He seemed to have a decent showing, but he almost looked out of sorts. Several times I saw him getting "knocked around". He seems to be what I classify as a "loose runner". He doesn't mind jumping or leaping a bit and he doesn't really shy away from contact, but he certainly isn't the "run you over" type. He may not be "super flashy", but he looks like a great volume play to me, and if things shake out right here in K.C., he could get a ton of work.
I hope the hype generally stays DOWN . One of my buddies from several of my leagues was asking me about Hunt tonight. He isn't the most savvy owner, (I assume he just watched tonight) so people are starting to take notice....and not the type of people that frequent this board either.
The bad news, is he seems to be entering the "more popular" handcuffs status, for those that look for that sort of thing. Not like Derrick Henry (who seems to have dropped off people's radars this year and is going late in my opinion), but still one of the more popular cuff type backs.
He is getting expensive, and seems to be rising a bit by the day. Although his ADP is currently 96 on fantasy pros, but he seems to be going earlier than that in every mock I have done. So he is creeping on up.
This will likely be one of the backfields I target, but I hate having to reach, and this is looking more and more like a case where I will have to reach to acquire both.
After tonight, I will be interested in exactly how much action he gets the rest of the preseason.
TZM
I will also target Kareem Hunt , later on in the drafts. Regardless of if you believe in handcuffing, one strategy I have used (and it can eliminate some late season headaches) is locking up a specific backfield. I wrote about this in other threads, and several of us have debated it, but it is slightly different than handcuffing.
Anyway, since I am going to undoubtedly be getting Ware in a few spots, I will also be "on the hunt, for Hunt." Looks like a perfect backfield to try and lock up, and the fact that Andy Reid has no issues run, run, running.
From the little bit I saw tonight, Hunt looks a bit smaller than what I remembered. Maybe he is just a bit thinner than what I had thought. He seemed to have a decent showing, but he almost looked out of sorts. Several times I saw him getting "knocked around". He seems to be what I classify as a "loose runner". He doesn't mind jumping or leaping a bit and he doesn't really shy away from contact, but he certainly isn't the "run you over" type. He may not be "super flashy", but he looks like a great volume play to me, and if things shake out right here in K.C., he could get a ton of work.
I hope the hype generally stays DOWN . One of my buddies from several of my leagues was asking me about Hunt tonight. He isn't the most savvy owner, (I assume he just watched tonight) so people are starting to take notice....and not the type of people that frequent this board either.
The bad news, is he seems to be entering the "more popular" handcuffs status, for those that look for that sort of thing. Not like Derrick Henry (who seems to have dropped off people's radars this year and is going late in my opinion), but still one of the more popular cuff type backs.
He is getting expensive, and seems to be rising a bit by the day. Although his ADP is currently 96 on fantasy pros, but he seems to be going earlier than that in every mock I have done. So he is creeping on up.
This will likely be one of the backfields I target, but I hate having to reach, and this is looking more and more like a case where I will have to reach to acquire both.
After tonight, I will be interested in exactly how much action he gets the rest of the preseason.
TZM
Winning IS Everything
Footballguy
My draft is this coming Saturday and I see him going no later than 1.8 (Ware keeper owner)
Chaka
Footballguy
The Chiefs sure used the heck out of him on that drive. He looked pretty good IMO. I thought he may have missed some yards on two of his first three rushes where it looked like there were big holes on the left side of the o-line but I like the way he lowers his pad level as he hits the pile and he seems to carry the ball very securely. Solid stiff arm too.
