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Dynasty Kareem Hunt Cleveland Browns

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19 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

The owners could have fought against that in the collective bargaining negotiations.  Do we know what the policy is on hair testing?   Perhaps someone can provide a link to where they can't use it.

I posted a link to the testing program a few posts above.  I skimmed through real fast, and the only collection method referenced is urine.

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Why would an owner care if their players smoked weed anyway? Guess would be an image thing but that’s changing. 

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4 minutes ago, TheWinz said:

I posted a link to the testing program a few posts above.  I skimmed through real fast, and the only collection method referenced is urine.

Wow, if true, the NFL owners need to brush up on their negotiating skills. 

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4 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Wow, if true, the NFL owners need to brush up on their negotiating skills. 

Why? Do you think they want more players suspended?

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1 minute ago, Tool said:

Why would an owner care if their players smoked weed anyway? Guess would be an image thing but that’s changing. 

True.  Weed is becoming more accepted every day.  It's legal for recreational purposes in 11 states, and 33 states have given in to medical marijuana.  The bad stigma of pot is only because some morons typed it as a schedule 1 drug many years ago.

I can't smoke because of my job, but my wife smokes like a chimney.  She is chill, has a great sense of humor, and isn't out wreaking havoc on society.  The medical professionals got it way wrong, and we can thank FDR for making it illegal back in 1937.

The world would be a better place if everyone was high all the time.  

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16 minutes ago, TheWinz said:

True.  Weed is becoming more accepted every day.  It's legal for recreational purposes in 11 states, and 33 states have given in to medical marijuana.  The bad stigma of pot is only because some morons typed it as a schedule 1 drug many years ago.

I can't smoke because of my job, but my wife smokes like a chimney.  She is chill, has a great sense of humor, and isn't out wreaking havoc on society.  The medical professionals got it way wrong, and we can thank FDR for making it illegal back in 1937.

The world would be a better place if everyone was high all the time.  

I don't have anything against using weed, but it does make you lethargic.  That's the last thing young people need to be when they are trying to make it in this world.  That wasn't meant for KH, he probably doesn't need to be successful at anything given his probable bank account.

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34 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Why? Do you think they want more players suspended?

I personally think they should legalize it in the NFL.

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15 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I don't have anything against using weed, but it does make you lethargic.  That's the last thing young people need to be when they are trying to make it in this world.  That wasn't meant for KH, he probably doesn't need to be successful at anything given his probable bank account.

Not necessarily true. It does  affect some people in this way but not all.  First, their are now a lot of different strains that have different effects on people.  Also, don't smoke a ton any more but when I was younger my friends and I would many times go hiking, play hoops, and do other stuff high.

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40 minutes ago, Tool said:

Not necessarily true. It does  affect some people in this way but not all.  First, their are now a lot of different strains that have different effects on people.  Also, don't smoke a ton any more but when I was younger my friends and I would many times go hiking, play hoops, and do other stuff high.

Speaking from experience, weed is the only drug I think I ever had the choice of "turning it off" when I wanted to.  I could be high as a kite one minute, then choose to sober up.  Sure, bloodshot and/or glassy eyes are still there (along with smelling like weed), but anyone who has smoked alot knows what I am talking about.  And for those who have never smoked, you can only get so high, and that depends on the quality of the weed.  I can remember smoking an ounce of pot in one sitting with my brother and a few friends back in the mid 80's, but a few hits of today's weed would make you higher than all the weed you could smoke 30 years ago.

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12 minutes ago, TheWinz said:

Speaking from experience, weed is the only drug I think I ever had the choice of "turning it off" when I wanted to.  I could be high as a kite one minute, then choose to sober up.  Sure, bloodshot and/or glassy eyes are still there (along with smelling like weed), but anyone who has smoked alot knows what I am talking about.  And for those who have never smoked, you can only get so high, and that depends on the quality of the weed.  I can remember smoking an ounce of pot in one sitting with my brother and a few friends back in the mid 80's, but a few hits of today's weed would make you higher than all the weed you could smoke 30 years ago.

Your choice of dealers in the 80s were obviously suspect, but yes, in general weed is much stronger now than way-back-when.  In the early 70s you could get some very good weed, or in Ky, grow your own from those seeds of the very good (red bud in particular).

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The weed talk is a red herring.  It's about Hunt's decision making, influences outside of football, etc.  With all the running backs available this off-season I'd be surprised if another team puts themselves in position to rely on Hunt as their #1 back entering the season, but it's relatively easy for the Browns to keep him around at a good cost.  Seems like the most likely outcome.  If Cleveland elects to let him go that's not a good sign (for all the behind the scenes reasons we're not privy to).

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1 hour ago, Tool said:

Not necessarily true. It does  affect some people in this way but not all.  First, their are now a lot of different strains that have different effects on people.  Also, don't smoke a ton any more but when I was younger my friends and I would many times go hiking, play hoops, and do other stuff high.

I smoke before I lift, run or play basketball fairly close to 100% of the time.

Weed certainly impacts people differently, but I can't really imagine why any NFL team would really care if their players were smoking or not unless they are still hanging onto the idea that it's a gateway drug that is just going to lead to other more hardcore drugs.

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2 minutes ago, trader jake said:

The weed talk is a red herring.  It's about Hunt's decision making, influences outside of football, etc.  With all the running backs available this off-season I'd be surprised if another team puts themselves in position to rely on Hunt as their #1 back entering the season, but it's relatively easy for the Browns to keep him around at a good cost.  Seems like the most likely outcome.  If Cleveland elects to let him go that's not a good sign (for all the behind the scenes reasons we're not privy to).

true, but only time will tell.  I'm sure some team will take a chance on Hunt unless he really messes up between now and then.  I'm unsure what the league policy is with hunt and his most recent transgression. 

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1 minute ago, menobrown said:

I smoke before I lift, run or play basketball fairly close to 100% of the time.

Weed certainly impacts people differently, but I can't really imagine why any NFL team would really care if their players were smoking or not unless they are still hanging onto the idea that it's a gateway drug that is just going to lead to other more hardcore drugs.

I believe that was a disproved myth some time ago.

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3 minutes ago, trader jake said:

The weed talk is a red herring.  It's about Hunt's decision making, influences outside of football, etc.  With all the running backs available this off-season I'd be surprised if another team puts themselves in position to rely on Hunt as their #1 back entering the season, but it's relatively easy for the Browns to keep him around at a good cost.  Seems like the most likely outcome.  If Cleveland elects to let him go that's not a good sign (for all the behind the scenes reasons we're not privy to).

Yes I think you hit the nail on the head with what this means.  This incident is really nothing in terms of league suspension but a guy who has made a few bad choices already the big issue this does to Kareem is make teams leery of trusting him. But the Browns know him, have him cheap and have Chubb if he something goes amiss. This is why, and I think I've posted here in another thread, even before this incident I felt the Browns would retain him.

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15 minutes ago, menobrown said:

Yes I think you hit the nail on the head with what this means.  This incident is really nothing in terms of league suspension but a guy who has made a few bad choices already the big issue this does to Kareem is make teams leery of trusting him. But the Browns know him, have him cheap and have Chubb if he something goes amiss. This is why, and I think I've posted here in another thread, even before this incident I felt the Browns would retain him.

I don't think they retain him unless it's rally cheap.  If they have to match anything and sacrifice a pick in the process I don't think they will.  I guess it depends on what tender they put on him.

Dorsey was the one who brought him in, and it sounds like Cleveland is going away from Dorsey largely because of the off the field problem guys he was bringing in.  "The team did not meet its potential on or off the field" seems like tea leaves pointing to not signing guys who are already on a second chance and just had a minor incident. 

 

Edited by kittenmittens

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33 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

I don't think they retain him unless it's rally cheap.  If they have to match anything and sacrifice a pick in the process I don't think they will.  I guess it depends on what tender they put on him.

Dorsey was the one who brought him in, and it sounds like Cleveland is going away from Dorsey largely because of the off the field problem guys he was bringing in.  "The team did not meet its potential on or off the field" seems like tea leaves pointing to not signing guys who are already on a second chance and just had a minor incident. 

 

If they just don't want him that will change everything but if they want him I'd assume they place at least a second round tender on him and that's the part where I think Cleveland can retain him cheap because I don't think anyone will offer Hunt a sizeable contract AND have to give up a second or more.

I hope you are right, I badly want him out, but not getting my hopes up.

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22 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

Dorsey was the one who brought him in, and it sounds like Cleveland is going away from Dorsey largely because of the off the field problem guys he was bringing in. 

I'm sure that didn't help Dorsey and his case to retain his GM role with Haslem.  However, it appears ownership has elected to run the organization with a very, very strong analytical bent...at the cost of just about everything else.  Dorsey is an old school GM and that just wasn't a good fit.

One could argue Haslem won't find any good fits because he is consistently inconsistent with his problem solving approach.  One year this, next year that, etc.  Also, based on his track record with TripleJ (intentionally ripping off smaller trucking companies), I'm led to believe he's just not a trustworthy person.  That's one poor combination.  Leads to yes men, short-term fixes, and poor morale.  Sounds like a Factory of Sadness to me.

For Brown's fans I hope that isn't the case, but it appears Cleveland is stuck with a bad apple at owner.  Just like DC is with Big Boy Daniel Snyder and the Jets are with Woody...and the team's records over their time as owners have reflected their leadership and decision making abilities.

Edited by trader jake
Owner name.

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The act itself isn't a big deal, however a guy that has a history of making bad choices doesn't seem like this is a good choice.  Nobody has any idea what the Browns told him with regards to this kind of allegation.  They may have told him they have a zero tolerance policy for something like this. 

 

It's a big deal because of his situation and only because of his situation.  Who knows how it will play out......

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22 hours ago, menobrown said:

You confused me with all that Lerner talk.

🤕 Good call, edited.  Haslem is a dud as an owner.

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Looks like he will be sitting out again...  Does Goodell have a "Repeat offender" register where he records names... those who need more than a smack on the wrist to learn?  

It appears Hunt is struggling to learn...  Another example of missed opportunities & talent wasted.  I was fully expecting him to be clean and have a role in Clev. 

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4 minutes ago, Birdie048 said:

Looks like he will be sitting out again...  Does Goodell have a "Repeat offender" register where he records names... those who need more than a smack on the wrist to learn?  

It appears Hunt is struggling to learn...  Another example of missed opportunities & talent wasted.  I was fully expecting him to be clean and have a role in Clev. 

does he even stay on cleveland....Dorsey was probably the whole reason he was there.....I could see him getting cut

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6 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

does he even stay on cleveland....Dorsey was probably the whole reason he was there.....I could see him getting cut

I see him staying in Cleveland ..  but also missing another 8 games 2020 ... they have a "support group for him" and I think this keeps him there. 

But whoever takes the chance won't pay much (in trade assests or contract signing).

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5 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

does he even stay on cleveland....Dorsey was probably the whole reason he was there.....I could see him getting cut

That be bad for him. If he gets cut, who will pick him up. He most likely is looking at a suspension and he has 2 knocks in like 13 months. He could be a bad pickup. 
 

after 2 knocks they need to start abolishing guys from football. Let them go work a regular job and maybe they will appreciate what they had. 

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Quote

In a police video of Kareem Hunt's Jan. 21 traffic stop obtained by TMZ Sports, Hunt admitted he would "fail an NFL drug test if one were administered to him at the time."

Emotional throughout a lengthy conversation with the officer who pulled him over, Hunt said he had been "fighting a lot of (stuff) lately," and that his release from the Chiefs "still hurts me to this day." Hunt eventually admitted that the marijuana in his vehicle was his, but the officer decided to let him off with only a speeding ticket. The officer was aware of Hunt's off-the-field history, at one point even bringing up the Ray Rice incident while reminding Hunt of his second chance. It is unclear if the NFL will take action. Hunt has never been suspended under the substance-abuse policy.

 

Edited by The Frankman

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2 hours ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

.I could see him getting cut

He's not under contract so they'd just not tender him.

 

1 hour ago, Birdie048 said:

 but also missing another 8 games 2020 ...

 

1 hour ago, PennStater77 said:

 He most likely is looking at a suspension and he has 2 knocks in like 13 months.

I'd be absolutely shocked if he got so much as a one game suspension over any of this.

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2 hours ago, menobrown said:

I'd be absolutely shocked if he got so much as a one game suspension over any of this.

Goodell will Goodell.  If he elected to suspend Hunt for a game would that really be shocking?  The Commish is much less lenient with players he's already had 'the talk' with.

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1 minute ago, trader jake said:

Goodell will Goodell.  If he elected to suspend Hunt for a game would that really be shocking?  The Commish is much less lenient with players he's already had 'the talk' with.

As clearly as I can state yes I'd be shocked and frankly not sure what people are talking about with 8 game suspension and sure to be suspended talk.

I think people are mixing up the personal conduct policy with leagues policy on drug use.

Getting a speeding ticket for doing 67 in a 50 zone  is not getting you suspended under the personal conduct policy, past offender or not.

Getting caught with such a small amount of weed that it did not even merit a citation is not only not enough to get suspended under the NFL' drug policy but you actually have to fail MULTIPLE drug tests for marijuana to get suspended.

This hurt Hunt in terms of Browns possible desire to keep him and other NFL teams viewing him as someone they can't trust. I'm not 100% sure on this but it's possible  the video and his admission he'd fail a test is enough to put him in the intervention program so now he has to take multiple random drug tests a year instead of once. This citation and video are fairly awful for a player entering RFA, but I don't think a suspension is forthcoming at all.

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18 minutes ago, menobrown said:

As clearly as I can state yes I'd be shocked and frankly not sure what people are talking about with 8 game suspension and sure to be suspended talk.

I think people are mixing up the personal conduct policy with leagues policy on drug use.

Getting a speeding ticket for doing 67 in a 50 zone  is not getting you suspended under the personal conduct policy, past offender or not.

Getting caught with such a small amount of weed that it did not even merit a citation is not only not enough to get suspended under the NFL' drug policy but you actually have to fail MULTIPLE drug tests for marijuana to get suspended.

This hurt Hunt in terms of Browns possible desire to keep him and other NFL teams viewing him as someone they can't trust. I'm not 100% sure on this but it's possible  the video and his admission he'd fail a test is enough to put him in the intervention program so now he has to take multiple random drug tests a year instead of once. This citation and video are fairly awful for a player entering RFA, but I don't think a suspension is forthcoming at all.

we don't know if he is in the drug program or not...do we??

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2 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

we don't know if he is in the drug program or not...do we??

He told the cop he had never failed a  drug test so I think we do know.

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4 minutes ago, DallasDMac said:

Rocket surgeon?

No, but probably rocket scientist or brain surgeon.

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I agree that we don't know all the details (like is he in the "Drug/Substance Program" or how Goodell will treat it as a "repeat in front of my desk" name).

IMO, He is not worth the risk.  I don't know if he will get a major suspension, but I see his long term value being in jeapordy from this incident. 

This event (speeding) will not draw any real NFL violations, but the video shows more details about his character.  The league Front Office folks will look at this as a major red flag as to his stability and reliability.  He is just not worth the risk and like on some draft boards, his name can be dropped.  Talent alone is not enough to make it in this league as there is always another young player coming up without all the headaches he carries with him.  I don't think it is the $ involved, but the Coach wants to have a dependable player in the locker room.

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I was under the impression he's not in the program yet so if they tested him, it's what, 2 game suspension max? It does hurt his pocket book though and whoever released the video is a ####ty person. The cop was trying to give the guy a break on something that A. isn't illegal in many states in this country and B. shouldn't be against the rules in the NFL. I think this actually makes it more likely that the Browns maintain him because interest league wide will be lower. I hope not though

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I think if Hunt has no more setbacks in the offseason, many teams will be inquiring about him.  We now know he smokes weed, but he has never failed a test, which means he isn't in the substance abuse program.  That puts him in a category with about what, half the league?  All this recent drama has done is lower his price.  He's still the same guy who finished as a RB1 in his first 2 seasons, and finished only 2 spots lower than Chubb in the 2nd half of 2019, on 100 less carries.

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On ‎1‎/‎27‎/‎2020 at 5:29 PM, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

we don't know if he is in the drug program or not...do we??

 

On ‎1‎/‎27‎/‎2020 at 5:34 PM, menobrown said:

He told the cop he had never failed a  drug test so I think we do know.

 

1 hour ago, TheWinz said:

I think if Hunt has no more setbacks in the offseason, many teams will be inquiring about him.  We now know he smokes weed, but he has never failed a test, which means he isn't in the substance abuse program.  That puts him in a category with about what, half the league?  All this recent drama has done is lower his price.  He's still the same guy who finished as a RB1 in his first 2 seasons, and finished only 2 spots lower than Chubb in the 2nd half of 2019, on 100 less carries.

I am not sure if him telling a cop he hasn't failed a test can be taken as truth.  It's likely he hasn't but I wouldn't be totally confident in that as fact.  Apparently a couple of you will take that as fact.  I guess that probably mimics the way GM's across the league view it.  Some will believe the guy some won't (although I am guessing they have access to know whether or not he has failed a test).  It just goes to the point that he is a question mark and doesn't show good decision making skills off the field.

 

If I am a GM I am probably staying away.  I would want to do an extensive interview and get a personal feeling about the guy.  Either way it's a flag and will affect his value. 

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50 minutes ago, Gally said:

 

 

I am not sure if him telling a cop he hasn't failed a test can be taken as truth.  It's likely he hasn't but I wouldn't be totally confident in that as fact.  Apparently a couple of you will take that as fact.

You take it as fact when he said he'd fail a drug test if administered the day he was pulled over? 

I know if I got pulled over while smoking weed I'd be lying about my ability to pass a drug test at that time. Would see no reason to lie to the police officer about having failed a drug test in the past, what would be the point of that?

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8 minutes ago, menobrown said:

You take it as fact when he said he'd fail a drug test if administered the day he was pulled over? 

I know if I got pulled over while smoking weed I'd be lying about my ability to pass a drug test at that time. Would see no reason to lie to the police officer about having failed a drug test in the past, what would be the point of that?

I just wouldn't take anything he is saying as fact at this point.  His credibility has taken a hit so he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. 

 

A reason to lie about failing a previous drug test is to not give precedent for you failing drug tests.  Personally, I wouldn't be volunteering any information in that situation which is another reason I wouldn't give anything he says credibility. 

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I'm not sure he actually said he'd fail a drug test.  I think people are misinterpreting that part of the video.

Officer:  If you took a drug test would you fail it?

Hunt: I said, I said

Officer: (says something else that you can't really understand because he's saying most of it underneath Hunt's "I said, I said")

Hunt: Yes sir, yes sir you are right.

 

I think Hunt's "yes sir you are right" was an answer to whatever the officer said that we couldn't really make out.  Why would he answer "you are right" to a question that wasn't meant to be a leading question?  The officer said something else between his question and Hunt saying "yes sir you are right".

Edited by FreeBaGeL

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Maybe will cost of him some cash or added contract language and is a small red flag but don’t see this hurting value a ton. He was cooperative and sincere which prob one of reasons cop took it easy on him.

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Did he have trouble staying out of trouble before the NFL?

 

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4 minutes ago, Warhogs said:

Did he have trouble staying out of trouble before the NFL?

 

He did run into a little bit of trouble which is detailed in the link below but with his family history it's pretty hard not to run into some issues.  I think he badly needs to get out of the Cleveland/Toledo area for his own good.

Kareem Hunt family criminal history

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I thought there was something and for me this is another red flag. Children raised in a troubled home just seem to have a higher chance of running into trouble in their adult lives. I really hope this opportunity for him isn't squandered but in my dynasty leagues he slides down my board some due to potential for trouble.

 

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To each their own but his family history just makes me pull harder for him, has no bearing on what I think of his dynasty stock, will just repeat I think it's in his best interest to get himself out of that area.

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5 hours ago, Gally said:

I am not sure if him telling a cop he hasn't failed a test can be taken as truth.  It's likely he hasn't but I wouldn't be totally confident in that as fact.  Apparently a couple of you will take that as fact.  I guess that probably mimics the way GM's across the league view it.  Some will believe the guy some won't (although I am guessing they have access to know whether or not he has failed a test).  It just goes to the point that he is a question mark and doesn't show good decision making skills off the field.

If I am a GM I am probably staying away.  I would want to do an extensive interview and get a personal feeling about the guy.  Either way it's a flag and will affect his value. 

It doesn't matter if he lied to the cops or not, because the NFL knows if he is in the program or not, and also know if he has ever failed a test.  The question is - do all the GM's know who has failed tests, and who is in the program?

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