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Guys to target before nfl draft (1 Viewer)

bostonfred

Footballguy
This is one of the hottest trade markets in dynasty.  The couple days around the nfl draft when even the most casual dynasty player is catching up on the news, and even the guys with no first round picks are into it.  It's also the time when people panic - especially at running back.  There are so many good backs coming out.  What if my guy loses his job? There are some great buying opportunities right now if you can guess right.   

Some guys who might be cheaper than they should

Paul Perkins - quietly looks like he could be the lead back and a three down rb.  The Giants are said to be interested in adding Blount. That is ideal for Perkins' value.  You might be thinking the opposite - Blount had over 300 touches and 18 touchdowns last year, couldn't he do the same for the giants. Doubtful.  His high water mark before last year was 7 touchdowns, and he has 32 in 6 nfl seasons. He hasn't broken 200 touches since his rookie year, when he had 206 followed by 199, 42, 155, 135, 171... and 306.  His 299 rushes went for just under 3.9 per carry, and anyone who watched him knows that his first and second quarter carries were abysmal.  He didn't start ripping off gainers until he'd worn defenses down a little.  Blount is also a terrible fit for the three receiver shotgun sets and audible heavy plays the giants like.  I don't expect rb1 numbers, but Perkins could be a strong rb2 if given the opportunity.  He runs well, catches well, and after a late start to training camp learned all the blocking schemes and audibles.  Lots of breakout potential. 

Rob Kelley - took over as the volume back week 8.  In 9 games, he had 151 rush attempts. 601 yards, 6 touchdowns, with 11 catches, 81 yards.  That pro rates to a decent but unspectacular 1250 total yards and 11 touchdowns. Normally I wouldn't even think about a guy like this, but people are acting like the redskins have already replaced him.  He might be the cheapest young rb out there, and at his current price he might be worth a roster spot as a pure backup rb lottery ticket.  It's like winning the daily numbers game instead of the big multi million dollar prize - not nearly as exciting but a realistic chance of paying off. 

Frank Gore - this is the year the Colts take a running back early, right?  It has to be.  That's what everyone said last year, when Gore had his 9th 1000 yard rushing season of his career.  His owners would love to time the market and sell when he's obviously going to lose his job this week - but what if he doesn't?   Send a trade offer and see what it costs to get a 34 year old back who might not have a job - it can't be much.  

Jamaal Charles - yeah, he's old and he's done and he doesn't even have a team.  But he's also the guy who will get the first phone call when there's a camp injury, and his value will spike as soon as someone inevitably gets hurt.  He's the type of guy you can buy cheap now when there's no news and flip later when there is.  Might be even cheaper after the nfl draft dust settles. 

Kenneth Dixon - there are reasons to be down on him, no doubt.  4 game suspension.  Terrance West listed as starter.  Woodhead signed.   They could draft someone else.  His stock had plummeted.  But.  As deep as this rb draft is, the Ravens have a lot of needs, and they just addressed running back in free agency.  If the Ravens draft a guy in the first couple rounds, Dixon is on life support.  But if they don't, it may be a signal that he's their rb of the future.  West is their rb1 by default and was good enough to keep the seat warm, but not a guy the Ravens want to build around.  Woodhead is a very good role player but he won't get 200 touches. His high water marks are 178 and 182 touches,the only years he broke 1000 total yards.  In those two years, he had 1361 receiving and 760 rushing - in other words, the lead back can still have a big role in accumulating yards and touchdowns. If the Dixon owner is starting to panic, you might be able to get an emerging feature rb cheap. 

Danny Woodhead - if he is healthy, and if he can stay healthy, and if he's still good at 32 years old coming off his second major injury in three years... yikes. Why is he on this list if Dixon is too?  The reason -  weeks one to four.  The Ravens open up with the Bengals, Browns, jaguars and Steelers and it looks like west and woodhead will be the top rbs. West could be a nice value for those games, too - but woodhead is a much easier guy to flip than west.  The ideal case is you get those first couple good games, get good value from him and then trade him for something with real long term value.

Isaiah Crowell - I have such a hard time getting excited about this guy.  But the Browns have put together a good offensive line, and hue wants to run.  If Crowell survives the draft, this might actually be the year.  He's also got some contact drama - he refused to sign his rfa tender, after getting an offer sheet at the second round level.  If his owners are nervous, this might be a chance to buy a 24 year old starting back for an improving team who just had 40 catches and yards per carry in the high 4s, with an emerging o line, a good coach... maybe there's something here. At the right price. 

Spencer ware - another guy who is already getting dirt shoveled on his grave.  It's possible he was miscast as a starter, but he averaged 98 yards per game and probably would have done more if he hadn't dealt with a concussion and a rib injury.  If the Chiefs draft a guy early, I'd rather have that guy.  But if they don't, ware might be a solid value pick

Cj Anderson - there was a news blurb a few days ago where the Broncos said if Anderson is ready for OTAs, he's ready for the season.  It was reported as Anderson not ready for OTAs , might not have job.  Then he showed up to OTAs.  So he should be ready for the season.  Then the Broncos talked about mccaffrey.  Maybe they are going hard after a running back.  Or maybe Elway the former quarterback is excited about his best receiver's son.  Regardless, it seems like Anderson news has all been negative recently, but when the guy plays, he's consistently been a low end rb1 or better. If you can buy him at a pre draft discount you might get a steal. 

This might look like a pretty ugly group of backs right now, but that's the point - their price is low, and we're about to get a lot of new information about them in the next couple days. If the Giants and Broncos add a first round offensive lineman and no running back in the first couple rounds, and the Ravens, Browns and chiefs don't all grab running backs early, and if the Colts once again defy all logic... there might be some value here.  It should be cheap to find out. 

 
Good post.

I own Perkins in multiple leagues and I wouldn't sell right now.

Gore epitomizes what you are saying. Get him today for nothing. If the Colts draft a RB then you might have good numbers for a few weeks. If they don't draft anyone, you might have decent numbers all season.

 
You will catch some falling daggers buying RB leading into the draft, but generally you can get them at a discount right now (and for the past few months most likely).

I was reading something about this a few months ago, that the ADP on RB with questionable holds on the starting jobs drops in the months leading up to the NFL draft for the reasons that Fred describes, and it makes sense.

Carlos Hyde might fit into this category. Change of organization and yesterday there was talk about the 49ers being interested in Fournette. Maybe that would be a good place to start if you wanted to buy Hyde right now.

Devontae Booker. If Anderson isn't ready to start the season and Denver doesn't draft another RB in the first three rounds then Booker should have the inside track to take the job.

There really only a handful of locks that wouldn't be subject to this. Ingram might have been one of them before Peterson signed there.

If the price is right.. why not?

I would say you should only do it if you really believe in the player you are buying. 

How many of the rookie RB coming in this year do you think would be able to beat out the RB buy in training camp or preseason?

Rob Kelly is the main guy you listed that I wouldn't be interested in at all. I think a grip of the RB this year could take his job.

Gore, Charles and Woodhead are all old enough now that you shouldn't be hoping for more than a one year rental. Woodhead can be very good in PPR leagues, he seems like the best choice to me of these 3.

Crowell seems like the best buy out of the guys Fred listed I think. Who else could come out of the draft smelling like roses if their team passes on good rookie RB?

 
You will catch some falling daggers buying RB leading into the draft, but generally you can get them at a discount right now (and for the past few months most likely).

I was reading something about this a few months ago, that the ADP on RB with questionable holds on the starting jobs drops in the months leading up to the NFL draft for the reasons that Fred describes, and it makes sense.

Carlos Hyde might fit into this category. Change of organization and yesterday there was talk about the 49ers being interested in Fournette. Maybe that would be a good place to start if you wanted to buy Hyde right now.

Devontae Booker. If Anderson isn't ready to start the season and Denver doesn't draft another RB in the first three rounds then Booker should have the inside track to take the job.

There really only a handful of locks that wouldn't be subject to this. Ingram might have been one of them before Peterson signed there.

If the price is right.. why not?

I would say you should only do it if you really believe in the player you are buying. 

How many of the rookie RB coming in this year do you think would be able to beat out the RB buy in training camp or preseason?

Rob Kelly is the main guy you listed that I wouldn't be interested in at all. I think a grip of the RB this year could take his job.

Gore, Charles and Woodhead are all old enough now that you shouldn't be hoping for more than a one year rental. Woodhead can be very good in PPR leagues, he seems like the best choice to me of these 3.

Crowell seems like the best buy out of the guys Fred listed I think. Who else could come out of the draft smelling like roses if their team passes on good rookie RB?
Hyde is another interesting player for sure. Ive seen a couple of trades for him over the last few weeks - each involved a first rounder at least. I do look at the 49ers 2nd rounder and wonder if that might be a RB. But I think they might ride out Hyde for one more year until they decide what their QB strategy is.......

 
I am not buying that they will draft a RB with pick two or even early.

But rumors like this can get the ball rolling in trade talks sometimes. It is worth a shot if you like the player.

 
The price is already low, but this may also prove to be the last good chance to sell guys like J. Hill or L. Murray before the value drops out completely.

Or, if you believe in one of them, buy them now for peanuts.  

 
The price is already low, but this may also prove to be the last good chance to sell guys like J. Hill or L. Murray before the value drops out completely.

Or, if you believe in one of them, buy them now for peanuts.  
I thought about including them, but the problem with those two is that I don't think you're getting a discount on them right now.

The Lat Murray owner is probably thinking I have the new starting rb for the Vikings. The hill owner probably thinks their super talented rb has been stuck in a bad situation and might be free soon.  The draft can only bring bad news for owners like that, which makes this a bad time to buy.

The point of this exercise is to find guys who aren't priced at starting rb prices whose value could go way up after the draft, because bad draft news is already baked into their prices. Carlos Hyde was an interesting one - you might be able to get a little panic from the owner - but you are still worried that they take Fournette, or Mixon, or worse yet a guy like foreman or the Toledo torpedo who could take half the backfield away from him. It would have to be a real discount for me to prefer buying today instead of next week.  

 
Jalen Richard/deandre Washington- if Oakland doesn't draft someone or sign someone one or both of these guys will have value.

ameer Abdullah- everyone thinks DET needs a rb, but I think they stay in house with their upgraded line and the run game takes a much needed step forward. Too many other needs to take a rb early. 

Rawls- I'm not sold on lacy, sure the contract says starter but will he be effective?

ty Montgomery- Green Bay has lots of rbs mocked to them. They may not take a rb. Monty would flirt with rb1 numbers if he gets most of the work. 

 
I would say you should only do it if you really believe in the player you are buying. 

How many of the rookie RB coming in this year do you think would be able to beat out the RB buy in training camp or preseason?

Rob Kelly is the main guy you listed that I wouldn't be interested in at all. I think a grip of the RB this year could take his job.
That's good advice for February and March.  But the next couple days are a unique buying opportunity.  I don't believe in fat Rob at all and don't think he would beat out many guys in this rb class.  I'm only interested because everyone seems to agree with you - that Washington will take a running back.  But what if they didn't?   They probably will, and they almost definitely should, but what if they didn't?  

A month ago, his price was set at "probably going to lose his job". Right now it seems to be set at "already lost his job". If you can throw an end of bench player or late round pick for him, you could get rewarded.  The first fantasy magazines will say "everyone thought Washington would take a back but they really like fat Rob".  He's probably trash, but what if he isn't.  

The same thing is true with Dixon.  Since the suspension news everyone's said the Ravens have to bring in another back.  And maybe they will.  But Ozzie already knew Dixon was going to get suspended when he added woodhead.  Maybe that is the big add.  Let woodhead and west move things forward until week 5 and then see what the kid can do. Or maybe not.  

If the Dixon owner thinks he has a starting running back, and is just hoping to dodge bullets this weekend?  That's not going to be a bargain.  At full price, I'm a seller, not a buyer, at least until after the nfl draft. Then his value will have changed.

 
Jalen Richard/deandre Washington- if Oakland doesn't draft someone or sign someone one or both of these guys will have value.

ameer Abdullah- everyone thinks DET needs a rb, but I think they stay in house with their upgraded line and the run game takes a much needed step forward. Too many other needs to take a rb early. 

Rawls- I'm not sold on lacy, sure the contract says starter but will he be effective?

ty Montgomery- Green Bay has lots of rbs mocked to them. They may not take a rb. Monty would flirt with rb1 numbers if he gets most of the work. 
Good choices.  The one thing that makes the Raiders and lions guys a bigger gamble is that you still don't know which guy you want even if they survive the draft.  This time next week Abdullah owners will still be wondering about Riddick and Washington owners will still be wondering about Richard (and maybe lynch). Sane thing with rawls/ lacy/ prosise.

Ty Montgomery though is an almost perfect example - everyone seems to agree that he can't be a starting running back and that may be true, but maybe the Packers are moving him to another position because they really believe he can make the switch. The only issue is I'm not sure you can get him at much of a discount, especially in ppr leagues, because he still had value as a receiver.  In non ppr though he might be a bargain if his value would spike on the knowledge he was still getting a lot of rb touches. 

 
Spencer ware- good back that wore down as the season went on but could easily be the starter again. 

I keep wanting to put tj yeldon, but I just can't. 

Jonathan Stewart for a year long band aid? I don't think I've seen a mock that doesn't have a rb to car.

 
Spencer ware- good back that wore down as the season went on but could easily be the starter again. 

I keep wanting to put tj yeldon, but I just can't. 

Jonathan Stewart for a year long band aid? I don't think I've seen a mock that doesn't have a rb to car.
Agree on all 3 especially Yeldon.  Good call on Stewart.  If they don't draft someone he's the guy by default.  Even if they do he might squeeze out one more year of productivity. The price would have to be pretty low, but he totally fits. 

 
I own Perkins in multiple leagues and cant get any single 2nd for him.

Yeldon and Stewart are at rock bottom low value. 

 
I thought about including them, but the problem with those two is that I don't think you're getting a discount on them right now.

The Lat Murray owner is probably thinking I have the new starting rb for the Vikings. The hill owner probably thinks their super talented rb has been stuck in a bad situation and might be free soon.  The draft can only bring bad news for owners like that, which makes this a bad time to buy.

The point of this exercise is to find guys who aren't priced at starting rb prices whose value could go way up after the draft, because bad draft news is already baked into their prices. Carlos Hyde was an interesting one - you might be able to get a little panic from the owner - but you are still worried that they take Fournette, or Mixon, or worse yet a guy like foreman or the Toledo torpedo who could take half the backfield away from him. It would have to be a real discount for me to prefer buying today instead of next week.  
Based on the Dynasty trade thread Paul Perkins is valued as a starting RB (and then some).

This was a good thread for the theory of "buying low" but I think the issue is that rarely comes to fruition as owners tend to believe in the guys they roster. It never hurts to try though and it is a good topic.

 
Spencer ware- good back that wore down as the season went on but could easily be the starter again. 

I keep wanting to put tj yeldon, but I just can't. 

Jonathan Stewart for a year long band aid? I don't think I've seen a mock that doesn't have a rb to car.
With Yeldon, even if you manage to buy low and the Jags don't take a RB you're still only buying mediocrity that will not help your team much at all. I'd almost rather throw the dart on my third rounder.

 
I own Perkins in multiple leagues and cant get any single 2nd for him.

Yeldon and Stewart are at rock bottom low value. 
That's kind of the point.

Although in the dynasty trade thread at one point their were a bunch of trades where Perkins was getting RB1 trade value.

 
That's kind of the point.

Although in the dynasty trade thread at one point their were a bunch of trades where Perkins was getting RB1 trade value.
And that's why this week is different.  That's exactly the point of this thread - people panic the days before the draft. Nothing has changed for Perkins-  if anything, the idea that they might sign Blount instead of drafting someonw seems like good news.  Yet his value has gone way down in some leagues.   Send out some feeler offers now and find out because if the giants don't draft a running back his price will go up and start to climb towards 5th round redraft or higher as we get closer to the season, and if some puff pieces come out at the right time it could climb into that third round range.   It sounds crazy now but it happens every year.

 
i get the whole penny stock / lottery ticket / speculation market concept, but IMO looking at names and possibilities without considering situation and documented team production is not the way to go. Put another way. trying to find a player that might see more looks and might be part of a committee on a team that doesn't utilize their backfield doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. If your are going fishing, you might as well fish where the fish are biting.

Here's a breakdown of fantasy RB scoring for all NFL teams from the past 3 seasons. Some teams will surprise in terms of how well or how poorly they did in fantasy RB scoring. Clearly coaching and personnel changes and injuries will impact the numbers and would help explain why some teams saw pretty radical changes in production. But at least this gives us a basis on where we should be looking to find guys that can be productive.

So for my money, I am not that interested in who might sneak through the cracks and take on some more touches on teams like the Giants or Jags. For a RB to have a fantasy impact, that player would need to claim a huge majority of the RB workload, and in this day and age those guys are scarce.

Code:
Team	2016 (0)	2016 (1)		2015 (0)	2015 (1)		2014 (0)	2014 (1)
ARI	377		458			309		353			118		148
ATL	420		513			340		437			311		412
BAL	264		382			287		414			343		419
BUF	400		474			333		393			268		382
CAR	244		288			269		320			220		272
CHI	281		335			336		406			266		374
CIN	303		380			307		381			353		433
CLE	265		362			229		313			286		318
DAL	365		420			280		359			390		470
DEN	278		339			270		325			338		406
DET	251		340			298		433			313		426
GBP	237		317			305		390			318		383
HOU	251		314			286		371			349		410
IND	282		366			222		284			286		378
JAX	221		298			185		251			237		313
KCC	250		320			295		348			361		433
LAC	295		369			306		441			230		314
LAR	185		248			266		332			260		342
MIA	313		379			266		347			295		371
MIN	225		307			352		428			316		407
NEP	371		460			356		459			308		383
NOS	400		527			350		472			353		483
NYG	242		325			296		388			287		352
NYJ	305		396			301		395			274		331
OAK	383		478			281		377			227		333
PHI	331		411			364		492			328		399
PIT	334		430			295		361			392		500
SEA	257		330			300		360			359		415
SFO	296		363			207		294			251		295
TBB	245		311			347		436			205		272
TEN	339		406			245		317			218		292
WAS	306		376			265		344			333		417
 
i get the whole penny stock / lottery ticket / speculation market concept
With all due respect, it doesn't seem like you do.  You can buy fat Rob today for a late draft pick.  After the nfl draft, if Washington doesn't take a back, you can sell him for a better draft pick. Your post assumes that you are buying and holding, which suggests that you don't get the whole speculation market concept, just part of it.  

But even as a buy and holder, I also don't agree that team stats are the issue.  When Rashad Jennings was healthy and under 30 he performed well for the giants.  He was not healthy and under 30 last year or in 2015, and he was only healthy for part of 2014.  That doesn't make the giants a bad running team or a committee team.   The titans were a terrible running team until last year.  Then they added some pieces to the running game like a quarterback, running backs and an offensive line, and it got better. 

I also don't agree that the giants and jaguars are comparable.  There's a reason Perkins didn't start right away.  Eli changes the play at the line of scrimmage and the team runs a lot of 3 wide with a bad o line, so they needed him to be able to pass block.  But Perkins couldn't practice with the team until late summer because he was a UCLA guy, and the giants thought they could ease him in behind Jennings, vereen and darkwaa.  All of this was discussed before the season and led to the conclusion that he wouldn't be ready to contribute in 2016 until late in the season.  He ended up having the only 100 yard game for the giants in week 17 and started their playoff game.  So there's legitimate reason for optimism for Perkins - he's shown some talent, he's learned the blocking schemes, he's gotten a couple starts, the team seems to like him and had talked about him as a starter, he's starting to talk about being a 3 down back, etc.

It's easy to be optimistic about Perkins - if he has the opportunity.  The big question is whether he'll get it before the giants draft a running back, which is why he's a buy low right now but might not be next week. 

That same optimism is harder to muster for yeldon, who had pretty much sucked at everything but catching short passes and not doing much with them.  He had an ok rookie season when the offense was running well, but didn't perform well last year, and now the team is heavily rumored to take a running back early this year.  And even if he survives the draft, there's not going to be much of a market for his services, so instead of buying low now to flip him later, you might as well wait because his value won't go up much and might go down even more. 

 
It is a good discussion, but I think most of these guys will continue to be buys after the draft. You've got 3 categories: grizzled vets, nonpedigree starters, and 2nd year guys who only showed a little. Those players need to show in camp at least to get bounce back hype. The exception is Perkins as he doesn't have the warts Dixon has right now (competition, suspension). People will still be reluctant to pay for Fat Rob and Ware. You can profit by hording starters if you have a bit of luck, like Eagles did with Bradford, but I think in most cases the cost is higher than advertised and the payout is lower than advertised. I don't see people giving up Rob or Ware for less than a mid/late 2nd (why would I give up a starter for less than a 2nd) or buying him in the future for more than a early/mid 2nd (why would I pay more than a 2nd for a guy who won't start more than this year).

 
Doug Martin is one that I keep going back and forth on. Seems like Tampa is mocked for a RB pretty often. Martin is starting off the season with the suspension. Jacquizz played well last year (even though Sims didn't). There are a lot of arrows pointing down on Martin. But he seems like the type of low-cost, high-upside option if things do fall the right direction.

For example, a couple of weeks ago I made this move:

Gave: Jalen Richard, Chris Thompson, and 2.08

Received: Doug Martin, 2.13, and 2019 3rd

 
That's good advice for February and March.  But the next couple days are a unique buying opportunity. 
So what I said isn't applicable now? I don't think so...

Just because the situation is unique and the buy/sell window quickly closing doesn't mean the price will be good enough to make a move. What matter here is the price obviously and a good price can happen at any time of the year, not just around the NFL draft.

Maybe it will work out to buy some of these guy, maybe it won't. 

If you can exchange some value (price) for risk (taking on the RB before the draft) then it is worth pursuing, but if there isn't enough of a discount and you pay market value for these guys, you are just taking on more risk and hoping that the player you bought will increase in value post draft to make the buy work for you. If the player sucks, they are still going to suck even if their team didn't draft anyone to replace them.

 
Doug Martin is one that I keep going back and forth on. Seems like Tampa is mocked for a RB pretty often. Martin is starting off the season with the suspension. Jacquizz played well last year (even though Sims didn't). There are a lot of arrows pointing down on Martin. But he seems like the type of low-cost, high-upside option if things do fall the right direction.

For example, a couple of weeks ago I made this move:

Gave: Jalen Richard, Chris Thompson, and 2.08

Received: Doug Martin, 2.13, and 2019 3rd
Perfect example

 
Based on the Dynasty trade thread Paul Perkins is valued as a starting RB (and then some).

This was a good thread for the theory of "buying low" but I think the issue is that rarely comes to fruition as owners tend to believe in the guys they roster. It never hurts to try though and it is a good topic.
That's pretty dated info.  I haven't seen a trade with him of that value in a number of weeks.

I think the key guys to invest in are Hyde, Crowell, and Jeremy Hill.  All are entering their 4th year, which means next year UFA status.  If any team drafts an RB high there's a strong chance those guys end up choosing their next destinations.  Crowell hasn't signed his RFA tender yet so that's .01% concerning, not sure what he's thinking as things can only get worse for him, not better, but as long as he eventually gets in he'll be free next year too.

 
That's pretty dated info.  I haven't seen a trade with him of that value in a number of weeks.

I think the key guys to invest in are Hyde, Crowell, and Jeremy Hill.  All are entering their 4th year, which means next year UFA status.  If any team drafts an RB high there's a strong chance those guys end up choosing their next destinations.  Crowell hasn't signed his RFA tender yet so that's .01% concerning, not sure what he's thinking as things can only get worse for him, not better, but as long as he eventually gets in he'll be free next year too.
I agree on Crowell, but unfortunately it seems like a lot of his owners are already high on him. Out of the four different owners I've talked to, a late 1st round rookie pick has been the consensus value. That's a higher price than people seem to be thinking for him.

 
Gave: Jalen Richard, Chris Thompson, and 2.08

Received: Doug Martin, 2.13, and 2019 3rd
It's a good deal, but I think Richard is another guy to buy, if you're looking for the next Ware (nonpedigree guys sticking around who could be starters). Gillislee was probably another guy like that before NE nabbed him, I don't know what his price is now.

 
I agree on Crowell, but unfortunately it seems like a lot of his owners are already high on him. Out of the four different owners I've talked to, a late 1st round rookie pick has been the consensus value. That's a higher price than people seem to be thinking for him.
I have a late-ish 1st rounder (1.10) and I'm sitting here today deciding if I'd give it up for Crowell in a 14 team non-PPR.

In my head it's pretty close.

 
It is a good discussion, but I think most of these guys will continue to be buys after the draft. You've got 3 categories: grizzled vets, nonpedigree starters, and 2nd year guys who only showed a little. Those players need to show in camp at least to get bounce back hype. The exception is Perkins as he doesn't have the warts Dixon has right now (competition, suspension). People will still be reluctant to pay for Fat Rob and Ware. You can profit by hording starters if you have a bit of luck, like Eagles did with Bradford, but I think in most cases the cost is higher than advertised and the payout is lower than advertised. I don't see people giving up Rob or Ware for less than a mid/late 2nd (why would I give up a starter for less than a 2nd) or buying him in the future for more than a early/mid 2nd (why would I pay more than a 2nd for a guy who won't start more than this year).
I agree with the bolded. Where the stock market analogy fails IMO is that the FF market is much more illiquid- there is only 1 seller so the cost tends to be higher than it should be (sometimes prohibitively so), and then even if you "hit" there are limited buyers. Keeping with the analogy, there tends to be much wider spreads in FF, causing you to pay more on both sides of the transaction.

Also, I don't think the value moves a ton on most of these marginal guys based on the draft- like you said, they may dodge a bullet short term with the draft, but the concerns are still going to be there for owners longer term.

 
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Well, I may be nuts but I think Forte is a great buy low candidate, only because the Jets seem to be aiming at the 2018 1.01 and I think at some point this season they'll trade him to a contender for a low draft pick.  I'm a little surprised they haven't done it already.

 
Well, I may be nuts but I think Forte is a great buy low candidate, only because the Jets seem to be aiming at the 2018 1.01 and I think at some point this season they'll trade him to a contender for a low draft pick.  I'm a little surprised they haven't done it already.
No team in their right mind is trading for RBs right now.  That said, I fully expect to see him sent to Washington for a 2017 2nd.

 
Well, I may be nuts but I think Forte is a great buy low candidate, only because the Jets seem to be aiming at the 2018 1.01 and I think at some point this season they'll trade him to a contender for a low draft pick.  I'm a little surprised they haven't done it already.
Just curious how much a 32 year old RB with 2,800 career touches has left in the tank. He's averaged 3.9 ypc over the past 3 years and got nicked up each of the the past two seasons. Don't see much NFL trade value for older backs . . . what did Lynch go for? A swap of 5th and 6th round picks?

 
With the draft approaching and the NFL dragging its feet, I decided yesterday am to put out some martavis offers. Owners have been holding him but there was a unique window there and I took advantage with owners fearing pit drafting a wr. As far as some of these others, if you're competing and have limited assets to move, these are the guys that can get you a season of production. 

A lot of times in the AC forum advice goes as follows: 

"just take player A and flip him for pick x then use that pick with your other to get pick a." 

This idea doesn't just work magically all the time. It takes 2 to tango, so it's still gambling, but with late round picks.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
With Yeldon, even if you manage to buy low and the Jags don't take a RB you're still only buying mediocrity that will not help your team much at all. I'd almost rather throw the dart on my third rounder.
I am surprised the hate Yeldon gets on here. He is 23 and will be for about half of next season, caught 50 passes in his second season and on a terrible offense is just under 4 YPC and has been a top 30 RB both seasons. That, to be fair, is mediocore, but he's young and the reality is in a 12 team 2 start RB league that's the kind of performance that qualifes as a RB3 type at worse and sometimes you need guys like that and if I need a guy like that I'd rather roster a young one with some upside. 220+ pound RB who catch 50 passes in year two to me offer upside. I mean people go nuts over Derrick Henry and his total rookie season performance was comparable to Yeldon's rookie season. Yeldon was pretty much a consenus top 10 dynasty RB after his rookie season. Then they signed Ivory and Yeldon regressed as a rusher but these things can change again.

Bottom line while I don't think this will come to fruition, because I do think the Jags add another RB high in the draft, if they don't I think he's got potential to be a RB2 at least, which is not really going out on a limb, that's just asking him to duplicate what he did his rookie season on a per game basis.

Snorkelson said:
ty Montgomery- Green Bay has lots of rbs mocked to them. They may not take a rb. Monty would flirt with rb1 numbers if he gets most of the work. 
.

This nomination would have been my clear cut #1 choice for this thread.  He is priced right now on assumption Fournette or something is walking through that door. I feel like Green Bay is going to draft a RB, but they don't pick until 29 and unless someone like Joe Mixon falls to round 2 for them I don't see any RB that past the upper echelon that just assumes the job. More to the point the McCarthy, Rodgers, most Packer beat writers have all been saying this off-season he's a big part of their offense so he's going to have a role either way so a useful guy and if they don't get major comp the only thing that will keep him from RB1 numbers is his admittedly high health concerns. But to me, based on what I've seen, his price right now is as if Green Bay has already replaced him.

 
This is one of the hottest trade markets in dynasty.  The couple days around the nfl draft when even the most casual dynasty player is catching up on the news, and even the guys with no first round picks are into it.  It's also the time when people panic - especially at running back.  There are so many good backs coming out.  What if my guy loses his job? There are some great buying opportunities right now if you can guess right.   

Some guys who might be cheaper than they should

Paul Perkins - quietly looks like he could be the lead back and a three down rb.  The Giants are said to be interested in adding Blount. That is ideal for Perkins' value.  You might be thinking the opposite - Blount had over 300 touches and 18 touchdowns last year, couldn't he do the same for the giants. Doubtful.  His high water mark before last year was 7 touchdowns, and he has 32 in 6 nfl seasons. He hasn't broken 200 touches since his rookie year, when he had 206 followed by 199, 42, 155, 135, 171... and 306.  His 299 rushes went for just under 3.9 per carry, and anyone who watched him knows that his first and second quarter carries were abysmal.  He didn't start ripping off gainers until he'd worn defenses down a little.  Blount is also a terrible fit for the three receiver shotgun sets and audible heavy plays the giants like.  I don't expect rb1 numbers, but Perkins could be a strong rb2 if given the opportunity.  He runs well, catches well, and after a late start to training camp learned all the blocking schemes and audibles.  Lots of breakout potential. 

Rob Kelley - took over as the volume back week 8.  In 9 games, he had 151 rush attempts. 601 yards, 6 touchdowns, with 11 catches, 81 yards.  That pro rates to a decent but unspectacular 1250 total yards and 11 touchdowns. Normally I wouldn't even think about a guy like this, but people are acting like the redskins have already replaced him.  He might be the cheapest young rb out there, and at his current price he might be worth a roster spot as a pure backup rb lottery ticket.  It's like winning the daily numbers game instead of the big multi million dollar prize - not nearly as exciting but a realistic chance of paying off. 

Frank Gore - this is the year the Colts take a running back early, right?  It has to be.  That's what everyone said last year, when Gore had his 9th 1000 yard rushing season of his career.  His owners would love to time the market and sell when he's obviously going to lose his job this week - but what if he doesn't?   Send a trade offer and see what it costs to get a 34 year old back who might not have a job - it can't be much.  

Jamaal Charles - yeah, he's old and he's done and he doesn't even have a team.  But he's also the guy who will get the first phone call when there's a camp injury, and his value will spike as soon as someone inevitably gets hurt.  He's the type of guy you can buy cheap now when there's no news and flip later when there is.  Might be even cheaper after the nfl draft dust settles. 

Kenneth Dixon - there are reasons to be down on him, no doubt.  4 game suspension.  Terrance West listed as starter.  Woodhead signed.   They could draft someone else.  His stock had plummeted.  But.  As deep as this rb draft is, the Ravens have a lot of needs, and they just addressed running back in free agency.  If the Ravens draft a guy in the first couple rounds, Dixon is on life support.  But if they don't, it may be a signal that he's their rb of the future.  West is their rb1 by default and was good enough to keep the seat warm, but not a guy the Ravens want to build around.  Woodhead is a very good role player but he won't get 200 touches. His high water marks are 178 and 182 touches,the only years he broke 1000 total yards.  In those two years, he had 1361 receiving and 760 rushing - in other words, the lead back can still have a big role in accumulating yards and touchdowns. If the Dixon owner is starting to panic, you might be able to get an emerging feature rb cheap. 

Danny Woodhead - if he is healthy, and if he can stay healthy, and if he's still good at 32 years old coming off his second major injury in three years... yikes. Why is he on this list if Dixon is too?  The reason -  weeks one to four.  The Ravens open up with the Bengals, Browns, jaguars and Steelers and it looks like west and woodhead will be the top rbs. West could be a nice value for those games, too - but woodhead is a much easier guy to flip than west.  The ideal case is you get those first couple good games, get good value from him and then trade him for something with real long term value.

Isaiah Crowell - I have such a hard time getting excited about this guy.  But the Browns have put together a good offensive line, and hue wants to run.  If Crowell survives the draft, this might actually be the year.  He's also got some contact drama - he refused to sign his rfa tender, after getting an offer sheet at the second round level.  If his owners are nervous, this might be a chance to buy a 24 year old starting back for an improving team who just had 40 catches and yards per carry in the high 4s, with an emerging o line, a good coach... maybe there's something here. At the right price. 

Spencer ware - another guy who is already getting dirt shoveled on his grave.  It's possible he was miscast as a starter, but he averaged 98 yards per game and probably would have done more if he hadn't dealt with a concussion and a rib injury.  If the Chiefs draft a guy early, I'd rather have that guy.  But if they don't, ware might be a solid value pick

Cj Anderson - there was a news blurb a few days ago where the Broncos said if Anderson is ready for OTAs, he's ready for the season.  It was reported as Anderson not ready for OTAs , might not have job.  Then he showed up to OTAs.  So he should be ready for the season.  Then the Broncos talked about mccaffrey.  Maybe they are going hard after a running back.  Or maybe Elway the former quarterback is excited about his best receiver's son.  Regardless, it seems like Anderson news has all been negative recently, but when the guy plays, he's consistently been a low end rb1 or better. If you can buy him at a pre draft discount you might get a steal. 

This might look like a pretty ugly group of backs right now, but that's the point - their price is low, and we're about to get a lot of new information about them in the next couple days. If the Giants and Broncos add a first round offensive lineman and no running back in the first couple rounds, and the Ravens, Browns and chiefs don't all grab running backs early, and if the Colts once again defy all logic... there might be some value here.  It should be cheap to find out. 
Saturday morning update - looks like a lot of these guys really were value plays if you tried to acquire before the draft.  Their prices have probably all gone up in the last two days but not to where they may end up when the market settles. 

 
Saturday morning update - looks like a lot of these guys really were value plays if you tried to acquire before the draft.  Their prices have probably all gone up in the last two days but not to where they may end up when the market settles. 
Good thread?

 
OP was pretty on point thus far. One more day and some FAs still around, but pretty solid hit rate. Feeling good about my Doug Martin call too so far.

 
Doug Martin is one that I keep going back and forth on. Seems like Tampa is mocked for a RB pretty often. Martin is starting off the season with the suspension. Jacquizz played well last year (even though Sims didn't). There are a lot of arrows pointing down on Martin. But he seems like the type of low-cost, high-upside option if things do fall the right direction.

For example, a couple of weeks ago I made this move:

Gave: Jalen Richard, Chris Thompson, and 2.08

Received: Doug Martin, 2.13, and 2019 3rd
Good deal.  I tried trading away Martin for those reasons and really expected a day 1/2 RB to be taken.  Had no luck moving him and wouldn't be making those same offers now.  

 
Could still be some day 3 guys to spoil the party.  Next few hours will go a long way towards deciding these guy's value but it's nice to have dodged the first half dozen or so bullets

 
With all due respect, it doesn't seem like you do.  You can buy fat Rob today for a late draft pick.  After the nfl draft, if Washington doesn't take a back, you can sell him for a better draft pick. Your post assumes that you are buying and holding, which suggests that you don't get the whole speculation market concept, just part of it.  
With all due respect, if you're playing in leagues where you can get Fat Rob for a late draft pick, regardless of what WAS does in the draft RB-wise, you're playing with idiots and this thread is totally overkill.   :lol:

 
With all due respect, if you're playing in leagues where you can get Fat Rob for a late draft pick, regardless of what WAS does in the draft RB-wise, you're playing with idiots and this thread is totally overkill.   :lol:
Not necessarily. A lot of "sharks" were selling kelley with the expectation that the redskins would pick a RB. A late 2 or early 3 likely would've gotten him in many leagues. 

 
Not necessarily. A lot of "sharks" were selling kelley with the expectation that the redskins would pick a RB. A late 2 or early 3 likely would've gotten him in many leagues. 
I wouldn't classify a 2nd or 3rd as a "late pick".  I agree with your statement though.

 
This is one of the hottest trade markets in dynasty.  The couple days around the nfl draft when even the most casual dynasty player is catching up on the news, and even the guys with no first round picks are into it.  It's also the time when people panic - especially at running back.  There are so many good backs coming out.  What if my guy loses his job? There are some great buying opportunities right now if you can guess right.   

Some guys who might be cheaper than they should

Paul Perkins - quietly looks like he could be the lead back and a three down rb.  The Giants are said to be interested in adding Blount. That is ideal for Perkins' value.  You might be thinking the opposite - Blount had over 300 touches and 18 touchdowns last year, couldn't he do the same for the giants. Doubtful.  His high water mark before last year was 7 touchdowns, and he has 32 in 6 nfl seasons. He hasn't broken 200 touches since his rookie year, when he had 206 followed by 199, 42, 155, 135, 171... and 306.  His 299 rushes went for just under 3.9 per carry, and anyone who watched him knows that his first and second quarter carries were abysmal.  He didn't start ripping off gainers until he'd worn defenses down a little.  Blount is also a terrible fit for the three receiver shotgun sets and audible heavy plays the giants like.  I don't expect rb1 numbers, but Perkins could be a strong rb2 if given the opportunity.  He runs well, catches well, and after a late start to training camp learned all the blocking schemes and audibles.  Lots of breakout potential. 

Rob Kelley - took over as the volume back week 8.  In 9 games, he had 151 rush attempts. 601 yards, 6 touchdowns, with 11 catches, 81 yards.  That pro rates to a decent but unspectacular 1250 total yards and 11 touchdowns. Normally I wouldn't even think about a guy like this, but people are acting like the redskins have already replaced him.  He might be the cheapest young rb out there, and at his current price he might be worth a roster spot as a pure backup rb lottery ticket.  It's like winning the daily numbers game instead of the big multi million dollar prize - not nearly as exciting but a realistic chance of paying off. 

Frank Gore - this is the year the Colts take a running back early, right?  It has to be.  That's what everyone said last year, when Gore had his 9th 1000 yard rushing season of his career.  His owners would love to time the market and sell when he's obviously going to lose his job this week - but what if he doesn't?   Send a trade offer and see what it costs to get a 34 year old back who might not have a job - it can't be much.  

Jamaal Charles - yeah, he's old and he's done and he doesn't even have a team.  But he's also the guy who will get the first phone call when there's a camp injury, and his value will spike as soon as someone inevitably gets hurt.  He's the type of guy you can buy cheap now when there's no news and flip later when there is.  Might be even cheaper after the nfl draft dust settles. 

Kenneth Dixon - there are reasons to be down on him, no doubt.  4 game suspension.  Terrance West listed as starter.  Woodhead signed.   They could draft someone else.  His stock had plummeted.  But.  As deep as this rb draft is, the Ravens have a lot of needs, and they just addressed running back in free agency.  If the Ravens draft a guy in the first couple rounds, Dixon is on life support.  But if they don't, it may be a signal that he's their rb of the future.  West is their rb1 by default and was good enough to keep the seat warm, but not a guy the Ravens want to build around.  Woodhead is a very good role player but he won't get 200 touches. His high water marks are 178 and 182 touches,the only years he broke 1000 total yards.  In those two years, he had 1361 receiving and 760 rushing - in other words, the lead back can still have a big role in accumulating yards and touchdowns. If the Dixon owner is starting to panic, you might be able to get an emerging feature rb cheap. 

Danny Woodhead - if he is healthy, and if he can stay healthy, and if he's still good at 32 years old coming off his second major injury in three years... yikes. Why is he on this list if Dixon is too?  The reason -  weeks one to four.  The Ravens open up with the Bengals, Browns, jaguars and Steelers and it looks like west and woodhead will be the top rbs. West could be a nice value for those games, too - but woodhead is a much easier guy to flip than west.  The ideal case is you get those first couple good games, get good value from him and then trade him for something with real long term value.

Isaiah Crowell - I have such a hard time getting excited about this guy.  But the Browns have put together a good offensive line, and hue wants to run.  If Crowell survives the draft, this might actually be the year.  He's also got some contact drama - he refused to sign his rfa tender, after getting an offer sheet at the second round level.  If his owners are nervous, this might be a chance to buy a 24 year old starting back for an improving team who just had 40 catches and yards per carry in the high 4s, with an emerging o line, a good coach... maybe there's something here. At the right price. 

Spencer ware - another guy who is already getting dirt shoveled on his grave.  It's possible he was miscast as a starter, but he averaged 98 yards per game and probably would have done more if he hadn't dealt with a concussion and a rib injury.  If the Chiefs draft a guy early, I'd rather have that guy.  But if they don't, ware might be a solid value pick

Cj Anderson - there was a news blurb a few days ago where the Broncos said if Anderson is ready for OTAs, he's ready for the season.  It was reported as Anderson not ready for OTAs , might not have job.  Then he showed up to OTAs.  So he should be ready for the season.  Then the Broncos talked about mccaffrey.  Maybe they are going hard after a running back.  Or maybe Elway the former quarterback is excited about his best receiver's son.  Regardless, it seems like Anderson news has all been negative recently, but when the guy plays, he's consistently been a low end rb1 or better. If you can buy him at a pre draft discount you might get a steal. 

This might look like a pretty ugly group of backs right now, but that's the point - their price is low, and we're about to get a lot of new information about them in the next couple days. If the Giants and Broncos add a first round offensive lineman and no running back in the first couple rounds, and the Ravens, Browns and chiefs don't all grab running backs early, and if the Colts once again defy all logic... there might be some value here.  It should be cheap to find out. 
So let's talk about these guys now that the draft is over.  

Perkins - they added Gallman in the 4th round.  Looks like a decent runner, heard some complaints about his upright running style, but the bigger issue is pass protection.  

Not ready for NFL pass protection duties yet.

His blocking style will get him in trouble, since relying strictly on power will have him get blown up and miss blocks entirely. His vision is there to be a successful blocker, but his technique will need to greatly improve.

Will have to learn NFL blitz protection

Probably not a good sign for his year one production when the first 3 scouting reports I Googled list his pass protection as a negative.  Overall I think Perkins' value goes up a good amount as we get closer to September, so still a good buying opportunity even if you only plan to flip him later. 

Rob Kelley - they added a better version of fat Rob.  The dream is over.

Frank Gore - may still have some value.  I think they let him take a shot at a tenth thousand yard season and a chance to move into the top 4 rushers all time, but the rookie will get some play.  If mack outplays him though he's done.  Worth a later round pick if his irreversible thinks he's done.  Could be a useful piece for a contender. 

Jamaal Charles might not have to wait for an injury.  A couple of the teams that most needed running backs didn't get one early.  He may have a market even before camp injuries. 

Kenneth Dixon survived the draft, which is a strong positive signal. He's still suspended 4 games, but he should have a real chance at the job when he comes back, and I still think he's better than Terrance West.  

Danny Woodhead also survived the draft, in the sense that he should have a big role especially the first four weeks against a juicy schedule.  Could be a nice veteran flip play - get him, use him for his best weeks, trade him before his value comes back down. 

Isaiah Crowell survives the draft too. He still needs to sign, officially, but he should be a quality rb option again and the offense may flow through him as the tan around him improves. 

Spencer ware is going to have to compete with Kareem hunt.  The good news is that they didn't take one of the stud backs in the early rounds. The bad news is the Chiefs traded up to get hunt.  He will have a role sooner or later, but ware should have an opportunity to compete. His value is down now, and he's probably a pure spec play at this point. 

Cj Anderson - maybe the most positive signal of the bunch.  They matched the dolphins tender offer last year, brought in booker, booker didn't pan out too well, and they didn't draft anyone.  Seems like Anderson is the clear starter and maybe will be the rest of his career. 

Overall pretty good return if you made plays for these guys before the draft.  Just 4 days ago these guys looked like trash but their value is going to run up gradually until September. 

 

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