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Time To End Frats? (1 Viewer)

J

James Daulton

Footballguy
On the heels of the Penn St. story, have the archaic hazing ways of the fraternity finally reached the end of their useful life?  Colleges have been trying to crack down on frats for decades now it seems, but as my son (a frat president) would say, "frats gonna frat."  It seems you'll always have those that need to push the edge during hazing and feel the need to continue the ridiculous, humiliating "rituals" for what?  Brotherly bonding? 

Time to end frats I say.

But keep sororities.

 
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When you read the details of the Penn State frat incident, it is disgusting. They have a minute by minute account, un####ing believable. I'm glad they're throwing the book at these kids, #### them! This kid did not need to die and he was clearly in terrible shape!

End frats? No, but make an example of these kids to put everyone on notice. 

 
Let the frats remain, but get rid of the association that exists between them and the schools. I'm mean really, the schools can't get rid of them. If they try, the students will just form new ones in a way that doesn't make them frats. Can a school say a group of guys can't share housing costs together? Where would the line be drawn?

 
I say no. A handful of idiots should not dictate whether or not something should be allowed. Ridiculous I can't enjoy a beer while attending a college football game because some 18 year old od'd on wine coolers.

 
Willie Neslon said:
I say no. A handful of idiots should not dictate whether or not something should be allowed. Ridiculous I can't enjoy a beer while attending a college football game because some 18 year old od'd on wine coolers.
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Unfortunately most of these frats are made up of idiots.  You know, typical college dudes.   Except in this case they all get together and get their idiocy working towards the same goal when it comes to hazing.  The magnified idiot power can be devastating. 

 
James Daulton said:
Unfortunately most of these frats are made up of idiots.  You know, typical college dudes.   Except in this case they all get together and get their idiocy working towards the same goal when it comes to hazing.  The magnified idiot power can be devastating. 
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Most young people are idiots. Not much you can do except give them as much info as possible and hope for the best.

 
Most would agree hazing is outdated.  

The leadership/cooperative living opportunities in a fraternity are probably more valuable than the classwork.  

 
Willie Neslon said:
I say no. A handful of idiots should not dictate whether or not something should be allowed. Ridiculous I can't enjoy a beer while attending a college football game because some 18 year old od'd on wine coolers.
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Ladies and gentlemen, I'll be brief. The issue here is not whether we broke a few rules, or took a few liberties with our female party guests - we did. 

But you can't hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg - isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!

 
Let's get rid of em.  That will finally put an end to college students getting drunk and doing stupid stuff. 

 
the worst part of sitting in a circle and eating a bowl of whatever they food in the kitchen.  the guy throwing up in the bowl was the worst part.

 
James Daulton said:
That has been talked about forever.  It's so ingrained into frat culture I just don't see it happening.   May as well try to get rid of the elephant walk.

Frats gonna frat.
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It's tough to get rid of hazing when the members were hazed.  The house I joined had been off campus for a few years, and came back and re-chartered a few years prior to me getting there with all new people that weren't hazed, and re-established without hazing.  But it was going on all over campus in other houses.  I never could understand why someone would want to subject themselves to elephant walks or soggy biscuit.

Nugget said:
Most would agree hazing is outdated.  

The leadership/cooperative living opportunities in a fraternity are probably more valuable than the classwork.  
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The system at U of O seems much different now than when I was there in the early '90s - the system has been "dry" for years now, so they can't have parties in the houses.  The problem there is that they now take place in off campus "live out" houses, which considering we had some some safeguards in place at parties at the house (security guards, nobody had to drive) seems worse for the students.  But it's about removing the liability from the national fraternities and the school administration.

I joined for the parties, but obviously benefited the most long term from the leadership/cooperative living aspects.  I think at a lot of campuses that's all it's really about anymore.  

 
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:lmao: at "leadership" as part of a frat.  Only "leading" that ever got done at ones that I saw was showing someone how to circumvent the coin slot on the "Lottery Beer" machine that was set up in the 2nd floor hallway.

 
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Some schools have no frats and seem to be just fine (and yes students still organize into groups and party otherwise). I think the apropos thought is it won't stop stupidity involving young dumb kids, but at least it wouldn't sponsor it. 

 
James Daulton said:
lol at "cooperative living" being touted as a benefit of a frat. 
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This is where I learned to use power tools, build a deck, lay sod, wash dishes, cook, and many other things.  We spend many nights working on contraptions for homecoming and organized work parties.  I'm sorry your experience was less beneficial.

 
Nugget said:
This is where I learned to use power tools, build a deck, lay sod, wash dishes, cook, and many other things.  We spend many nights working on contraptions for homecoming and organized work parties.  I'm sorry your experience was less beneficial.
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My parents should have told me I was in a Frat instead of just doing chores.

 
my fraternity created a pretty cool college experience for myself and numerous others....

i have lifetime friends from those years and wouldn't change it for anything...

just like everything else in life there are stupid people doing stupid things...doesn't mean it is the norm...

 
Nugget said:
This is where I learned to use power tools, build a deck, lay sod, wash dishes, cook, and many other things.  We spend many nights working on contraptions for homecoming and organized work parties.  I'm sorry your experience was less beneficial.
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Sounds like a boring frat. 

 
And to be clear, although I never was a frat guy, I'm not against frats in general.  Simply the hazing aspect that's so ingrained in the culture that perhaps the only way to get rid of it entirely is to get rid of frats.

Believe me, my son tells me all the great things that frats do for their members and the community.  It's a wonder that such a wholesome group of dudes could actually kill or seriously hurt their own so often. 

 
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I was in engineering school - so my peers were boring as hell and I've lost touch with pretty much all of them.  But my fraternity brothers?  I'll probably be playing golf with a few of them after retirement and today I was just exchanging emails with my pledge brothers. It's been 25 years since most of graduated...  How many of you (that weren't in fraternities) can say that about your college friends?

 
Buttonhook said:
I was in engineering school - so my peers were boring as hell and I've lost touch with pretty much all of them.  But my fraternity brothers?  I'll probably be playing golf with a few of them after retirement and today I was just exchanging emails with my pledge brothers. It's been 25 years since most of graduated...  How many of you (that weren't in fraternities) can say that about your college friends?
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Why is it that frat guys think they have a monopoly on lifelong college friends?  Do people not in frats just not have friends?

 
James Daulton said:
And to be clear, although I never was a frat guy, I'm not against frats in general.  Simply the hazing aspect that's so ingrained in the culture that perhaps the only way to get rid of it entirely is to get rid of frats.
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It isn't. Or maybe some places it is, but it isn't universal.

I went to college in 1988. I joined a fraternity. It had a strict no hazing policy due to things that happened on campus, mainly at other houses, over the previous decade.

While there was some stuff that might have qualified as hazing under the strictest of definitions, nothing bad or dangerous happened as hazing to anybody in my class or the one after it. I don't know if it came back down the line, I wasn't really involved after my junior year or so.

So it is possible.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
When you read the details of the Penn State frat incident, it is disgusting. They have a minute by minute account, un####ing believable. I'm glad they're throwing the book at these kids, #### them! This kid did not need to die and he was clearly in terrible shape!

End frats? No, but make an example of these kids to put everyone on notice. 
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Double secret probation for all??

 
Buttonhook said:
I was in engineering school - so my peers were boring as hell and I've lost touch with pretty much all of them.  But my fraternity brothers?  I'll probably be playing golf with a few of them after retirement and today I was just exchanging emails with my pledge brothers. It's been 25 years since most of graduated...  How many of you (that weren't in fraternities) can say that about your college friends?
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This is exactly the elitist attitude that turned me off on frat life where I was in school.

James Daulton said:
Why is it that frat guys think they have a monopoly on lifelong college friends?  Do people not in frats just not have friends?
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This.  I have several good friends from my college years.  Unfortunately we are spread all over the country/world, but we still stay in touch and make an effort to get together on a regular basis.

 
How did they even get started?  Someone decided to make some freshmen buttchug some vodka and the rest is history?

 
RedmondLonghorn said:
It isn't. Or maybe some places it is, but it isn't universal.

I went to college in 1988. I joined a fraternity. It had a strict no hazing policy due to things that happened on campus, mainly at other houses, over the previous decade.

While there was some stuff that might have qualified as hazing under the strictest of definitions, nothing bad or dangerous happened as hazing to anybody in my class or the one after it. I don't know if it came back down the line, I wasn't really involved after my junior year or so.

So it is possible.
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So perhaps let frats be frat but do away with formal hazing.  Can you have a typical "rush" without hazing?  Or is rush different than hazing?

 
James Daulton said:
Why is it that frat guys think they have a monopoly on lifelong college friends?  Do people not in frats just not have friends?
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this x1000.  

The entire lifelong friend thing is a myth that further makes this problem worse.  SUFFER or else you will die alone.

 
James Daulton said:
On the heels of the Penn St. story, have the archaic hazing ways of the fraternity finally reached the end of their useful life?  Colleges have been trying to crack down on frats for decades now it seems, but as my son (a frat president) would say, "frats gonna frat."  It seems you'll always have those that need to push the edge during hazing and feel the need to continue the ridiculous, humiliating "rituals" for what?  Brotherly bonding? 

Time to end frats I say.

But keep sororities.
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Sororities don't exist without frats and vice versa.

Simple solution ban hazing at the national level, enforced by colleges and frat alumni groups. It's a simple solution. And it would work quickly

 
tommyboy said:
Sororities don't exist without frats and vice versa.

Simple solution ban hazing at the national level, enforced by colleges and frat alumni groups. It's a simple solution. And it would work quickly
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Uh sororities have girls.  Don't need frats for them.  Duh.

 
tommyboy said:
Sororities don't exist without frats and vice versa.

Simple solution ban hazing at the national level, enforced by colleges and frat alumni groups. It's a simple solution. And it would work quickly
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Sororities are perhaps even worse with hazing now than men nationwide.  They just don't usually end up killing their pledges.  Alot of what we define as hazing for men don't really work for women.

And how do you ban hazing?  Most of what goes on is already illegal.

 
culdeus said:
Sororities are perhaps even worse with hazing now than men nationwide.  They just don't usually end up killing their pledges.  Alot of what we define as hazing for men don't really work for women.

And how do you ban hazing?  Most of what goes on is already illegal.
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From what I can glimmer from movies, I don't find sorority hazing to be bad or dangerous at all.  I probably should do some more research though. 

 
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culdeus said:
Sororities are perhaps even worse with hazing now than men nationwide.  They just don't usually end up killing their pledges.  Alot of what we define as hazing for men don't really work for women.

And how do you ban hazing?  Most of what goes on is already illegal.
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When I started a fraternity 30 years ago I made it part of the bylaws of the chapter there would be absolutely no hazing of any kind. We actually out-recruited established fraternities because of that

 
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Buttonhook said:
I was in engineering school - so my peers were boring as hell and I've lost touch with pretty much all of them.  But my fraternity brothers?  I'll probably be playing golf with a few of them after retirement and today I was just exchanging emails with my pledge brothers. It's been 25 years since most of graduated...  How many of you (that weren't in fraternities) can say that about your college friends?
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:hey:

Dorm life freshman year plus on- and off-campus apartment living the next three can get you pretty close to a few guys.

I don't blame you for feeling the need to defend fraternities, though.  Although not for everyone (certainly weren't for me), they are obviously great for a lot of people.  IMO, simply ending frats entirely would be silly, but ending them on a case by case basis is entirely reasonable.  If enough of them get permanently shut down, the others will eventually get cleaned up or go away.

But this isn't even restricted to frats - a freaking a capella group at my alma mater was recently permanently dismissed for hazing.

 
jhib said:
:hey:

Dorm life freshman year plus on- and off-campus apartment living the next three can get you pretty close to a few guys.

I don't blame you for feeling the need to defend fraternities, though.  Although not for everyone (certainly weren't for me), they are obviously great for a lot of people.  IMO, simply ending frats entirely would be silly, but ending them on a case by case basis is entirely reasonable.  If enough of them get permanently shut down, the others will eventually get cleaned up or go away.

But this isn't even restricted to frats - a freaking a capella group at my alma mater was recently permanently dismissed for hazing.
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There was also a fraternity death at your alma mater. 

 
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