What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

1.1 Rookie RB Post Draft, Fournette vs CMac (1 Viewer)

dmac37

dmac37

Footballguy
Now that the dust has settled it seems like a very tough call who to take with the #1 pick in PPR, especially if you are going to target a RB rather than a WR.

Mixon could be in the conversation but IMO it seems to be a 2 player debate between Fournette and McCaffrey. Neither landed in a great situation but also neither in a horrible situation.

At this stage I think it comes down to in PPR, which RB do you think picks up more usage with their secondary value.

McCaffrey- does he pick up enough carries and occasional TD's to go along with receptions to be considered ahead of Fournette?

Fournette- does he pick up enough receptions/receiving yards to offset the times he does not get TD's or lack of carries when they are playing from behind?

I think if we can best evaluate this question we can best decide who to take at 1.1 if we are set on taking a RB.

After the first round I had McCaffrey slightly ahead but once the Panthers also took Samuel and the Jags took Robinson I think it is now a tougher call......

 
I have the 1.01 pick in one PPR league and I'll be taking Mixon.  I've tried to move down a few spots with no luck.  I don't expect a huge rookie year from Mixon but in the long run I think he is the most talented player in this class.  

 
CMC for me, hes got everything you want, only knock against him for me, is that Cam will steal a couple TDs on the ground every year, but I think he will make up for it through the air.

 
I think the question for best RBs are between Fournette and Mixon, not Fournette and McCaffrey.

 
In PPR it's kind of a coin flip between LF, McCaffrey, and Mixon.  In the end think all of them will be awesome.  In recent classes there have only been 0-1 high probability RB's, this year we were spoiled with 3-4.  It's a rare RB class for FF.  Maybe not as good as the 2008 class of RB's but pretty close.

Would be extremely happy with a top 3 pick this year, you really can't go wrong.

 
Fournette faced 8 in the box on 67% of his snaps in 2016.
Mccaffrey faced 8 in the box 64% of his snaps in 2016.
Mixon faced 8 in the box on 6% of his snaps in 2016.

Fournette yards created per attempt vs 8 in the box: 5.48
Mccaffrey yards created per attempt vs 8 in the box: 5.86

Fournette rushing yards per game in 2016: 120.4
Mccaffrey rushing yards per game in 2016: 145.7

 
Run It Up said:
Fournette faced 8 in the box on 67% of his snaps in 2016.
Mccaffrey faced 8 in the box 64% of his snaps in 2016.
Mixon faced 8 in the box on 6% of his snaps in 2016.

Fournette yards created per attempt vs 8 in the box: 5.48
Mccaffrey yards created per attempt vs 8 in the box: 5.86

Fournette rushing yards per game in 2016: 120.4
Mccaffrey rushing yards per game in 2016: 145.7
Click to expand...
Who faced better defenses?

 
menobrown said:
Who faced better defenses?
Click to expand...
I assume the SEC is still better than the PAC-12 as a whole, but I honestly couldn't tell you and I'm not sure where I could find detailed info for players vs quality defenses.

I know last year there was a big narrative push that Mccaffrey faced much worse defenses than Derrick Henry.

I was just posting that info because I think the narrative that CMC cant run inside or against a stout box is a joke, watched him do it for 2 years. When you add his well above average receiving skills I think he is the clear #1 of this class. Could have landed in a better spot, but I think Carolina is a fine spot for him especially in PPR leagues. Has Cam ever had a receiver with more than 85 catches in a season? I think Mccaffrey could do that year 1.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
It seems people are terrified to bring up the one aspect of McCaffery of why I will take a guy like Fournette, Cook and Mixon over McCaffery every day of the week.  So I wont either. lol I like McCaffery but if I'm picking players based off my preferences, McCaffery isnt even a consideration. Until a player like McCaffery succeeds in todays NFL, I will be reluctant at his price.

 
While I think CM will be a great, real football player- I'm less stoked about his fantasy prospects. I have no doubt he will have a role but things look murky with Cam, Samuel, Stewart, etc... I'm not convinced Newton will fundamentally alter his style, thus I see few goal line opportunities for CM.

LF was drafted to be the focal point of the offense. He will, simply from an opportunity standpoint, have a sizable volume. I think, given the marginal supporting cast, he will have scattershot efficiency, but from a ff perspective, that is not of significant import. 

I'd go LF at 1.1 but honestly would have no problem moving to 1.3 and picking up a piece.

I don't think there is much difference between LF,CM, and Mixon.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If it's a Non PPR league like mine, and "tame" yardage 1/25, and you have the 1.01, and 1.02 like me, it's gotta be Fournette and Mixon for Dynasty, doesn't it??

 
FreeBaGeL said:
2 PPR, one standard.

ETA: In all three cases the top three were Davis, Fournette, and Mixon (Mixon 3rd in all three).
Click to expand...
People taking Mixon over Cook in dynasty ppr is lunacy. I love Mixon, but over Cook after seeing the tape of him break a LB ankle in camp is crazy. Standard is a bit more of a toss up, but PPR? No chance I take Mixon over Cook. They are not even close to the same player and Cooks wiggle and vision is unmatched by any rookie. I have watched tons of tape as I am trying to talk myself out of taking Howard at 5 for my need of TE, but if Cook is there I might consider him, if Mixon is left, I'm taking Howard.

Dalvin Cook Highlights

Joe Mixon Highlights

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dedfin said:
Does anyone knock McC due to his being white?  Trying to keep an open mind about this.
Click to expand...
If you can tell me a recent RB who was white who had workhorse success not named Alstott, I'll listen. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mavis said:
People taking Mixon over Cook in dynasty ppr is lunacy. I love Mixon, but over Cook after seeing the tape of him break a LB ankle in camp is crazy. Standard is a bit more of a toss up, but PPR? No chance I take Mixon over Cook. They are not even close to the same player and Cooks wiggle and vision is unmatched by any rookie. I have watched tons of tape as I am trying to talk myself out of taking Howard at 5 for my need of TE, but if Cook is there I might consider him, if Mixon is left, I'm taking Howard.

Dalvin Cook Highlights

Joe Mixon Highlights
Click to expand...
Cook has more red flags than the Turkish embassy.

 
McCaffery is a Cop back that went to a team that doesn't throw to its rbs and they added Samuel. Too many questions for me to even think about him over Fournette.

I liked McCaffery but not to Carolina.

 
PPR + return yards
Leonard Fournette  
Joe Mixon  
Corey Davis  
Christian McCaffrey  

.5 PPR RB/WR, 1.0 PPR for TE
Leonard Fournette  
Dalvin Cook  
Corey Davis  (me)
Christian McCaffrey  

.5 PPR RB, .75 PPR WR, 1.5 PPR TE + return yards
Corey Davis  (me)
Leonard Fournette  
Christian McCaffrey  

.5 PPR
Leonard Fournette  
Joe Mixon  (me)
Corey Davis  (me)
Dalvin Cook  
Christian McCaffrey  

 
IMO McCaffrey comes down to the fear that he is not built or weigh enough to be a NFL RB, or that Carolina is not going to use him like a true feature back. The reason I like him is because his ability to run inside and be an asset as a receiving  back.

 
Mavis said:
I love Mixon, but over Cook after seeing the tape of him break a LB ankle in camp is crazy.
Click to expand...
That's the reason it's crazy? Because he made an UDFA LB look silly on a punt return rep during rookie mini camp? I guess anything on Twitter creates hype nowadays.

 
buck naked said:
I'm in 5 FFPC rookie drafts which started today and McCaffrey has gone 3, 3, 3, 3, & 4.
Click to expand...

FreeBaGeL said:
McCaffrey hasn't gone in the top 3 in any of my 3 leagues that have drafted so far.
Click to expand...

I did 4 FFPC drafts today and he went second twice and third in the other two. I took him second myself in one, passed on him at second in another. Did two draft last weekend, one of which buck naked is in, and he went 2 and 3 in those drafts which are both FFPC rules. Had a third private PPR draft this weekend where he went third. So in 7 drafts he has gone second twice and third 5 times.

Fournette went 1.1 in all 4 FFPC drafts and the private one that started this weekend and in my two drafts last weekend he went first and fourth so he's gone first 6 times out of 7 with one odd 4th.

 
petekrum said:
Yep.
Click to expand...
History is against him.  When was the last time a non-fullback type of white guy made an impact in the NFL?   Ed Podolak?  John Riggins (some would consider a fullback), Larry Csonka (again, fullback), Rocky Bleier?,  please don't say Mike Alstott, Frank Gifford (now we're reaching), Paul Hornung (now we're still reaching),   Not saying he can't be good, but are you going to risk the 1.01 on McCaffrey in a draft that is this strong at RB?

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
That's the reason it's crazy? Because he made an UDFA LB look silly on a punt return rep during rookie mini camp? I guess anything on Twitter creates hype nowadays.
Click to expand...
But its OK to judge players based off of 40 and shuttle times in underwear?  Yes, what players do on a field with other players will always surpass what they do in underwear with no one chasing them. 

 
massraider said:
Cook has more red flags than the Turkish embassy.
Click to expand...
Sure he does, but thats if you care about false accusations and not guilties as red flags. I do to an extent, I care more about if a man is capable of punching the women. Both have been accused, one was guilty of the crime, the other one wasnt. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mavis said:
Sure he does, but thats if you care about false accusations and not guilties as red flags. I do to an extent, I care more about if a man is capable of punching the women. Both have been accused, one was guilty of the crime, the other one wasnt. 
Click to expand...
Those aren't his only red flags.

There's his poor athletic testing, and multiple injury history.

''False accusations''?  You have no idea if the accusations are false, pretending you do is laughable.

 
massraider said:
Those aren't his only red flags.

There's his poor athletic testing, and multiple injury history.

''False accusations''?  You have no idea if the accusations are false, pretending you do is laughable.
Click to expand...
Poor athletic testing? You caring about underwear olympics is whats laughable. How do you know they were not false accusations, nothing ever came from most of them? You pretending you do is also laughable. 

 
Mavis said:
Poor athletic testing? You caring about underwear olympics is whats laughable. How do you know they were not false accusations, nothing ever came from most of them? You pretending you do is also laughable. 
Click to expand...
Poor testing is one more red flag.  That's all it is, a red flag.  And the entire league cares about combine testing, were you unaware of this?

I'm not the one that said the accusations were true.  You said they were false.  Do you not understand the difference?

 
Mavis said:
But its OK to judge players based off of 40 and shuttle times in underwear?  Yes, what players do on a field with other players will always surpass what they do in underwear with no one chasing them. 
Click to expand...
Again, want to make sure we're on the same page here, you're referring to like a 7 second clip on Twitter where he embarrassed a guy who is going to be an insurance salesman real soon, right? 

 
JohnnyU said:
History is against him.  When was the last time a non-fullback type of white guy made an impact in the NFL?   Ed Podolak?  John Riggins (some would consider a fullback), Larry Csonka (again, fullback), Rocky Bleier?,  please don't say Mike Alstott, Frank Gifford (now we're reaching), Paul Hornung (now we're still reaching),   Not saying he can't be good, but are you going to risk the 1.01 on McCaffrey in a draft that is this strong at RB?
Click to expand...
Yep, there was a time when there were white RBs in the NFL, as well as white cornerbacks. There was also a time when U.S. Colleges produced all star caliber point guards and shooting guards for the NBA, but that hasn't happened in over 20 years. Is McCaffrey gonna be a stud fantasy player? Maybe, maybe not, but I'm sure as hell not gambling the top rookie pick to find out.

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
Again, want to make sure we're on the same page here, you're referring to like a 7 second clip on Twitter where he embarrassed a guy who is going to be an insurance salesman real soon, right? 
Click to expand...
Yes that is a clip I am referring to, but it is so funny to see people talk up 5 second times at the combine in underwear, but they will underestimate 7 seconds in pads against real players trying to get them. 

massraider said:
Poor testing is one more red flag.  That's all it is, a red flag.  And the entire league cares about combine testing, were you unaware of this?

I'm not the one that said the accusations were true.  You said they were false.  Do you not understand the difference?
Click to expand...
Poor testing? His vision didnt test poor, in fact it tested the highest of any player ever tested by Sports Science, so pick and choose the testing you want and I will to. His acceleration and speed in pads is also unrivaled.  Do you understand the difference of those tests in pads as opposed to the sprint times without pads? I will make no dispute that people care about the combine, doesnt mean it really matters to football play. It is well known people in the NFL want to change the combine entirely. 

petekrum said:
Yep, there was a time when there were white RBs in the NFL, as well as white cornerbacks. There was also a time when U.S. Colleges produced all star caliber point guards and shooting guards for the NBA, but that hasn't happened in over 20 years. Is McCaffrey gonna be a stud fantasy player? Maybe, maybe not, but I'm sure as hell not gambling the top rookie pick to find out.
Click to expand...
Pete, I'm with you here. I much rather miss on McCaffery and take a chance on the others than take a risk which history shows does not work out well. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mavis said:
Poor testing? His vision didnt test poor, in fact it tested the highest of any player ever tested by Sports Science, so pick and choose the testing you want and I will to. His acceleration and speed in pads is also unrivaled.  Do you understand the difference of those tests in pads as opposed to the sprint times without pads? I will make no dispute that people care about the combine, doesnt mean it really matters to football play. It is well known people in the NFL want to change the combine entirely. 
Click to expand...
Gosh, I sure hope the people in the NFL are able to someday get the changes they are looking for in the Combine, which is run by the people in the NFL.

 
JohnnyU said:
History is against him.  When was the last time a non-fullback type of white guy made an impact in the NFL?   Ed Podolak?  John Riggins (some would consider a fullback), Larry Csonka (again, fullback), Rocky Bleier?,  please don't say Mike Alstott, Frank Gifford (now we're reaching), Paul Hornung (now we're still reaching),   Not saying he can't be good, but are you going to risk the 1.01 on McCaffrey in a draft that is this strong at RB?
Click to expand...
To be fair, how did his Dad stack up against other white guys at the position he played?

There's a genetic history on the side of people expecting Christian to break the historic norm...

 
massraider said:
Gosh, I sure hope the people in the NFL are able to someday get the changes they are looking for in the Combine, which is run by the people in the NFL.
Click to expand...
Gosh, if you only knew many of the people wont change it because they want the times to compare to players at the 1999 combines and others, but some would have to read more than your desired storylines to find that info. I forget everyone in the NFL agrees on everything. I said people in the NFL did I say all people, or does that go against your point you are trying to make? But the fact that all people dont like the combine and some want to change it would tell those without a bias on this topic all they need to know. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mavis said:
Gosh, if you only knew many of the people wont change it because they want the times to compare to players at the 1999 combines and others, but some would have to read more than your desired storylines to find that info. I forget everyone in the NFL agrees on everything. I said people in the NFL did I say all people, or does that go against your point you are trying to make? 
Click to expand...
Just block him mass...he's not worth anyones time

 
DansRams said:
Just block him mass...he's not worth anyones time
Click to expand...
Yes, block me because I dont say what you like and you have to run from what you dont want to hear. Sounds like a very grown up and mature thing to do to block people who disagree with you. Thanks for the quality discussion and content that you provide, I'll take this to PMs. Attack my reputation all you want, people like what I have to say most times. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Arodin said:
To be fair, how did his Dad stack up against other white guys at the position he played?

There's a genetic history on the side of people expecting Christian to break the historic norm...
Click to expand...
Lots of good white WRs in the modern era, RBs not so much.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
JohnnyU said:
Lots of good white WRs in the modern era, RBs not so much.
Click to expand...
And they are still rare. Best white WR on the team...

Cowboys - Beasley, Giants - ???, Redskins - ???, Eagles - ???

Packers - Nelson, Lions - ???, Vikings - Thielen, Bears - Braverman

Falcons - ???, Buccaneers - ???, Saints - ???, Panthers - ???

Seahawks - ???, Cardinals - ???, Rams - Kupp, 49ers - ???

Patriots - Edelman, Hogan & Amendola, Dolphins - ???, Bills - ???, Jets - Decker

Steelers - ???, Ravens - ???, Bengals - ???, Browns - ???

Texans - ???, Titans - ???, Colts - ???, Jaguars - ???

Chiefs - ???, Raiders - ???, Broncos - ???, Chargers - ???

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mavis said:
And they are still rare. Best white WR on the team...

Cowboys - Beasley, Giants - ???, Redskins - ???, Eagles - ???

Packers - Nelson, Lions - ???, Vikings - Thielen, Bears - Braverman

Falcons - ???, Buccaneers - ???, Saints - ???, Panthers - ???

Seahawks - ???, Cardinals - ???, Rams - Kupp, 49ers - ???

Patriots - Edelman, Hogan & Amendola, Dolphins - ???, Bills - ???, Jets - Decker

Steelers - ???, Ravens - ???, Bengals - ???, Browns - ???

Texans - ???, Titans - ???, Colts - ???, Jaguars - ???

Chiefs - ???, Raiders - ???, Broncos - ???, Chargers - ???
Click to expand...
Steve Largent, Ed McCaffrey, Wes Welker,, Joe Jurevicius, Steve Watson, Ricky Prohel, Brandon Stokley, Pat Tilley, Bill Schroeder, Wayne Chrebet, Roger Carr, Chris Collinsworth, and if you want to go back a little bit, Lance Alworth can be mentioned in the same breath as Jerry Rice.   He would be a star in any era. Same with Fred Biletnikoff or Don Hutson.

 
JohnnyU said:
Steve Largent, Ed McCaffrey, Wes Welker,, Joe Jurevicius, Steve Watson, Ricky Prohel, Brandon Stokley, Pat Tilley, Bill Schroeder, Wayne Chrebet, Roger Carr, Chris Collinsworth, and if you want to go back a little bit, Lance Alworth can be mentioned in the same breath as Jerry Rice.   He would be a star in any era. Same with Fred Biletnikoff or Don Hutson.
Click to expand...
Ok, and you covered about 30 years there and named only 15. Think roughly 30ish teams a year, over those years. You are making our point even though you may not mean to.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Hot Sauce Guy
Guillotine style post-season leagues
Replies
4
Views
291
Bankerguy
Bankerguy
TripItUp
Trip's Pre-Preseason FF RB Busts (PPR-Redraft)
Replies
19
Views
1K
TripItUp
TripItUp
greenmountaingoat
Ainias Smith-WR- Draft eligible Texas A&M
Replies
8
Views
238
Faust
Faust

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top