2017 rookie pick 1.11 post NFL draft (Closed) (1 Viewer)

Now that the NFL draft is complete and we have had a few days to let things sink in, lets find out what the SP thinks of the rookies and where they stack up against each other for fantasy.

I decided to expand to four different polls post NFL draft, as now we can consider how each player fits with their teams and what that may mean in terms of fantasy points. 

I am populating the poll from my own rankings, with the exception of the 2QB poll where I will slot the top 3 QB choices at all times. If a player is not listed that you think should be, please recommend that they be added to the appropriate poll. If you would vote for a player who is not listed please vote other and post who you voted for, and that player will be added to the next poll.

Discussion welcome. Thanks everyone for voting.

Previous polls

Poll 1.01

Poll 1.02

Poll 1.03

Poll 1.04

Pick 1.05

Pick 1.06

Pick 1.07

Pick 1.08

Pick 1.09

Pick 1,10

Results so far:

Standard

1.01 Leonard Fournette 65.8% at 123 votes

1.02 Corey Davis 41.4% at 74 votes

1.03 Joe Mixon 37.7% at 81 votes

1.04 Christian McCaffrey 47.8% at 105 votes

1.05 Dalvin Cook 70.3% at 71 votes

1.06 Mike Williams 55.3% at 82 votes

1.07 OJ Howard 36.2% at 76 votes

1.08 Kareem Hunt 26.2% at 71 votes

1.09 Samajae Perine 25% at 86 votes

1.10 John Ross 29.8% at 65 votes

1.11 Alvin Kamara 23.5% at 60 votes

PPR

1.01 Corey Davis 40.4% at 123 votes

1.02 Leonard Fournette 55.7% at 74 votes

1.03 Christian McCaffrey 66.2% at 81 votes

1.04 Joe Mixon 51.1% at 105 votes

1.05 Dalvin Cook 70.3% at 71 votes

1.06 Mike Williams 62.4% at 82 votes

1.07 OJ Howard 55.1% at 76 votes

1.08 John Ross 26.2% at 71 votes

1.09 Kareem Hunt 18.8% at 86 votes

1.10 Alvin Kamara 29.8% at 65 votes

1.11 Evan Engram 31.4% at 60 votes

2QB

1.01 Leonard Fournette 31.6% at 123 votes

1.02 Corey Davis 28.6% at 74 votes

1.03 Christian McCaffrey 31.2% at 81 votes

1.04 Joe Mixon 28.9% at 105 votes

1.05 Dalvin Cook 29.7% at 71 votes

1.06 Mike Williams 19.7% at 82 votes

1.07 Deshaun Watson 17.4% at 76 votes

1.08 OJ Howard 26.2% at 71 votes

1.09 Patrick Mahomes 18.8% at 86 votes

1.10 Mitch Trubisky 15,8% at 65 votes

1.11 Alvin Kamara 9.8% at 60 votes

TE premium

1.01 Leonard Fournette 35% at 123 votes

1.02 Corey Davis 37.1% at 74 votes

1.03 Christian McCaffrey 36.4% at 81 votes

1.04 Joe Mixon 33.3% at 105 votes

1.05 Dalvin Cook 34.4% at 71 votes

1.06 OJ Howard 48.7% at 82 votes

1.07 Mike Williams 33.3% at 76 votes

1.08 David Njoku 29.5% at 71 votes

1.09 Evan Engram 46.3% at 86 votes

1.10 John Ross 26.3% at 65 votes

1.11 Alvin Kamara 19.6% at 60 votes

Poll 1.12 can be found here

32 votes in now.

Other than Engram being drafted slightly earlier than Njoku why are people voting for him?  I understand the ceiling and he's in a good situation, but is that situation really able to support a high end TE1 right out the gate?  I say no with all those mouths to feed but that's just me.  

Also Njoku went before Engram in 2TE so logic says he should go ahead of Engram in standard as well.  As I write this they're tied 6-6 and PPR has Engram ahead 11-8

I am on the Engram side of this decision point Zyphros, but I have made the same observation as you in regards to these two TE.

I think it makes sense that Njoku being a bit larger player than Engram, that he might be used in the red zone more, in theory, and therefore be more valuable in a standard scoring format where TD matter more than receptions do.

I like both players a lot so I don't really think there is a wrong answer. 

In the short term I would expect Engram to start producing sooner than Njoku who is a younger player. Engram does have a lot higher quality of competition for targets than Nkoku has, which could prevent the short term opportunity for Engram to be a bit less.

Interesting stuff pointed out by Bracie in that Seth Devalve is going to play more of a blocking/in line TE role for them, as Devalve was a bit of an overgrown receiver joker type prospect as well. This is what happens to the TE in their early development. They get forced to do things they are not good at, such as blocking which makes it hard for them to see the field.

It's not that I hate Engram, just an observation of the voting.  I think it's fair to vote for either one.  I was just curious if someone had an answer for why they voted that way other than draft pedigree.  Which would be totally fine if you viewed them equal.  Personally I don't view them equally, #7 and #9 in my rankings though so pretty close.  

48 votes in now.

I do think Engram is a better passing offense than Njoku is with the Browns. As long as Hue Jackson is the coach of the Browns I do not expect them to throw the ball as much as the Giants will. So aside from draft position (which favors Engram) I also think Engram is in a better offense as far as opportunity.

The Giants have averaged 607 pass attempts over the last 3 seasons with McAdoo as the OC or HC.

The Browns threw the ball 567 times in 2016. Hue Jackson with the Bengals threw the ball 503 and 505 times in 2014 and 2015. History of Hue Jackson shows a tendency of run/pass balance and generally keeps pass attempts low (score permitting) Using the average of Hue Jacksons offenses over the last 3 years out to 525 passing attempts.

It is a lot less opportunity for receivers with the Borwns than the Giants imo.

I also would like to hear the argument for Njoku over Engram if anyone shares this view and would like to explain why?

Well, I'm still not convinced that Engram doesn't get relisted as a WR by the time he is fantasy relevant, whereas Njoku seems like a foundational TE in a rising offense.

Arodin said:

Well, I'm still not convinced that Engram doesn't get relisted as a WR by the time he is fantasy relevant, whereas Njoku seems like a foundational TE in a rising offense.

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That makes a lot of sense.

Engram could likely be a WR 3 for fantasy if he were designated as one. That is a far cry from being a TE 1 in fantasy, in terms of relative value of the player. It makes a huge difference.

I don't think Engram will ever be designated as a WR though, because the Giants would have to pay him a lot more if they did that, instead of keeping him as a TE. This matters to the Giants in regards to their salary cap and the 5th year option. Much cheaper to use the option on a TE than at WR.

Njoku is more of a feature than a piece in that offense i think.  They're WRs are bare unlike the Giants with 3 very solid options not including Engram.  I can see Njoku being the go to option in the future where as Engram is a glorified WR with a possible switch, like Arodin suggested, although I see that as unlikely.

I think it will ultimately come down to who learns to block the best so they don't come off the field and I see that as Njoku learning and adapting to that the best.  An all around TE similar to Dwayne Allen, where Engram has a wider range of where I think he could end up.  He could be Charles Clay or he could be Jimmy Graham.  Njoku's floor is higher I think and he'll adapt and learn to block better 

I am surprised that Deshone Kizer isn't getting more support in the 2QB

Biabreakable said:

That makes a lot of sense.

Engram could likely be a WR 3 for fantasy if he were designated as one. That is a far cry from being a TE 1 in fantasy, in terms of relative value of the player. It makes a huge difference.

I don't think Engram will ever be designated as a WR though, because the Giants would have to pay him a lot more if they did that, instead of keeping him as a TE. This matters to the Giants in regards to their salary cap and the 5th year option. Much cheaper to use the option on a TE than at WR.

Click to expand...

True, as far as how the Giants list him, and the 5th year option price tag is a huge influence.  

I play enough idp to have lived through several rotoworld position changes that didn't align with the team's official listings.  Maybe they don't do that as often with offensive players, though...

Arodin said:

True, as far as how the Giants list him, and the 5th year option price tag is a huge influence.  

I play enough idp to have lived through several rotoworld position changes that didn't align with the team's official listings.  Maybe they don't do that as often with offensive players, though...

Click to expand...

I think it is a legit concern. Just that the chances of Engram being designated as a WR are very low imo.

Another example we have of this type of positional issue is when Graham was trying to get the Saints to recognize him as a WR for salary cap purposes. He was not moved to WR but the salary issues may have been part of why the Saints traded him to Seattle. In any case his position didn't change for fantasy even though Graham was being used more as a WR than a TE.

Devin Funchess is a player that I thought might be designated as a TE prior to the NFL draft. They drafted him as a WR though and he was never considered a TE by the Pathers for the purpose of salary and how he will be paid in he future.

I cannot think of any examples of a player being drafted as a TE but then later being designated as a WR. Because of the money, that would be against the teams interest to do so. The only example of a WR being considered a TE for fantasy was Marques Colston who was listed as a TE in yahoo leagues. He was always designated as WR by all other fantasy sites. It was more of a yahoo error than anything else.

The defensive players can change designation as Dline and LB positional roles can be somewhat interchangable, depending on the scheme. An OLB in a 3-4 becoming a DE in a 4-3 for example. You do have corners moving to safety at times as well.

I can't think of any other examples of a player being considered a TE then changed to a WR aside from Funchess and Colston examples. How the NFL is going to designate a players position seems pretty clear though and shouldn't change.