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Debbie Whatashame Schultz

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4 hours ago, Sabertooth said:

She's as much to blame for Trump being the Pres as anyone.  She and Hillary should just go do something else.  Like be nuns or something.  Just go away.  

A bit hyperbolic, no?  DWS is as much to blame for Trump's being POTUS as Trump supporters themselves?  

 

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2 minutes ago, VandyMan said:

Interesting. I've only heard him refer to himself as a "democratic socialist". Sometimes, at least prior to his presidential campaign, it seemed (to me) like he was using that phrase more as an attention-grabber rather than an accurate description of his policy stuff.

Yes, that is all he described himself as. You're right. 

And all through the campaign the media told us -- and I had long, long debates on this very board about it -- that he was really a social democrat. I was stunned at not only the misunderstanding of democratic socialism, but that the media was so willing to gloss this over. 

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2 minutes ago, squistion said:

He ran for office as a Socialist, was elected and then described himself as a Socialist.

Exactly. Where were you when I needed you in all these debates on this very board? I kept saying this and people kept disagreeing, thinking I was smearing him or didn't understand socialism. I could link to those threads.  

eta* I had a long, long debate in the Sanders thread and was taking on like eight supporters about it. I specifically remember proninja. Who is cool is my book, I just remember.  

Edited by rockaction

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3 hours ago, mquinnjr said:

I throw slightly more blame at the people who didn't show up for Hillary that did for Obama at the polls in swing states last November.

Racist.

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7 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Exactly. Where were you when I needed you in all these debates on this very board? I kept saying this and people kept disagreeing, thinking I was smearing him or didn't understand socialism. I could link to those threads.  

eta* I had a long, long debate in the Sanders thread and was taking on like eight supporters about it. I specifically remember proninja. Who is cool is my book, I just remember.  

I kept saying for over a year in the Hillary thread that he could never win the presidency because he was a self-described Socialist and an annual Gallup poll showed that to be the biggest disqualifier among potential voters.

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Just now, squistion said:

I kept saying for over a year in the Hillary thread that he could never win the presidency because he was a self-described Socialist and an annual Gallup poll showed that to be the biggest disqualifier among potential voters.

Yeah, I'm not accusing you. That was rhetorical. I had long debates in here about it many times. 

I stopped going in the Hillary thread, too, because you guys seemed to have that covered and I have such a distaste for her I was less than helpful.  

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I hadn't read this thread since it started. I see that it's finally gotten interesting.

rockaction is both right and wrong. Hitler was not a socialist as we regard socialists nowadays, but he was a collectivist and a statist. The three terms are somewhat intertwined but they do have distinct meanings. Squistion is correct to point out that the "socialist" aspects of National Socialism, as advocated by Gregor Strasser, were almost wholly thrown out by the time the Nazis took over. For example, Strasser wanted the wealthy landowners (Junkers) estates seized and redistributed to the lower middle classes, along with heavy taxation. Hitler did none of that. He protected the wealthy but then instituted tight controls: again, collectivist and statist, but not socialist. 

However, while rockaction and squistion are both partly right, Dr. Dan is completely wrong. That's because he apparently doesn't understand the difference between liberalism and collectivism, the former having to do with the freedom of the individual. The term "liberal fascism" is historically meaningless and absurd, a phrase created by conservatives (I think it was Jonah Goldberg) in order to demonized their opponents and make them look extreme. Anyone who uses such a term cannot be considered a serious thinker, sorry. 

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3 minutes ago, E Street Brat said:

Racist.

:eek:

Obama won the electoral votes in states that Hillary did not, fact.

Ethnic background of voters that did not vote for Hillary that voted for Obama, gigantic & speculative leap. Can you provide a link to help us get there if it's not speculative on your part?

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In the spirit of bipartisanship and as a way to heal the country from our divisive and destructive politics, I propose the following individuals are removed from any position of authority and either jailed or deported:

Donald Trump

Mike Pence

Mitch McConnell

Paul Ryan

Hillary Clinton

Debbie W Schultz

Nancy Pelosi

A liberal to be named later.

Everyone good?

 

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36 minutes ago, tommyGunZ said:

A bit hyperbolic, no?  DWS is as much to blame for Trump's being POTUS as Trump supporters themselves?  

 

I think her meddling with the primaries simply confirmed how corrupt (which it was) the DNC was under her watch.  Did that push people to the right?  I bet it did.  Who knows?  Maybe Bernie beats Donald.  But DWS made sure that didn't happen.  So yeah I think her being a Hillary flunky had a lot to do with it.  

 

 

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Tim:

I hadn't read this thread since it started. I see that it's finally gotten interesting.



rockaction is both right and wrong. Hitler was not a socialist as we regard socialists nowadays, but he was a collectivist and a statist. The three terms are somewhat intertwined but they do have distinct meanings. Squistion is correct to point out that the "socialist" aspects of National Socialism, as advocated by Gregor Strasser, were almost wholly thrown out by the time the Nazis took over. For example, Strasser wanted the wealthy landowners (Junkers) estates seized and redistributed to the lower middle classes, along with heavy taxation. Hitler did none of that. He protected the wealthy but then instituted tight controls: again, collectivist and statist, but not socialist.

However, while rockaction and squistion are both partly right, Dr. Dan is completely wrong. That's because he apparently doesn't understand the difference between liberalism and collectivism, the former having to do with the freedom of the individual. The term "liberal fascism" is historically meaningless and absurd, a phrase created by conservatives (I think it was Jonah Goldberg) in order to demonized their opponents and make them look extreme. Anyone who uses such a term cannot be considered a serious thinker, sorry.


I can't decide if this is great post or if it just looks good in comparison to the rest of the thread.

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22 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I hadn't read this thread since it started. I see that it's finally gotten interesting.

rockaction is both right and wrong. Hitler was not a socialist as we regard socialists nowadays, but he was a collectivist and a statist. The three terms are somewhat intertwined but they do have distinct meanings. Squistion is correct to point out that the "socialist" aspects of National Socialism, as advocated by Gregor Strasser, were almost wholly thrown out by the time the Nazis took over. For example, Strasser wanted the wealthy landowners (Junkers) estates seized and redistributed to the lower middle classes, along with heavy taxation. Hitler did none of that. He protected the wealthy but then instituted tight controls: again, collectivist and statist, but not socialist. 

However, while rockaction and squistion are both partly right, Dr. Dan is completely wrong. That's because he apparently doesn't understand the difference between liberalism and collectivism, the former having to do with the freedom of the individual. The term "liberal fascism" is historically meaningless and absurd, a phrase created by conservatives (I think it was Jonah Goldberg) in order to demonized their opponents and make them look extreme. Anyone who uses such a term cannot be considered a serious thinker, sorry. 

So I have to use the working definition of socialism now as opposed to in historical context? That seems odd. Not only that, socialism does not mean the redistribution of wealth, as you claim, even in its current form. It is the control over the means of production, prices, wages, and distribution, which certainly qualifies both in Italy and Germany.  

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3 minutes ago, cap'n grunge said:

Also, 

On the other hand, socialism has acted as an incubator for movements that are generally labeled far-right. European fascists in the 1920s and 1930s adopted socialist ideas, though they phrased them in nationalist terms: economic redistribution to the workers meant Italian or German workers and then only a certain, narrow type of Italian or German.
 

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22 minutes ago, Sabertooth said:

I think her meddling with the primaries simply confirmed how corrupt (which it was) the DNC was under her watch.  Did that push people to the right?  I bet it did.  Who knows?  Maybe Bernie beats Donald.  But DWS made sure that didn't happen.  So yeah I think her being a Hillary flunky had a lot to do with it.  

How was the DNC corrupt?  Specifically. 

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2 minutes ago, tommyGunZ said:

How was the DNC corrupt?  Specifically. 

Donna Brazil gave debate questions to HRC.  That's cheating.

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9 minutes ago, Quez said:

Donna Brazil gave debate questions to HRC.  That's cheating.

It was one question, but what does that have to do with the DNC?

The DNC did plenty of other shady things to tip the scale in favor of Hillary and it's well documented. Not sure why that needs to be relitigated now when more important events are unfolding that impact the country than an unfair primary process that is in the past.

Oh yeah, deflect and distract.

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10 minutes ago, Quez said:

Donna Brazil gave debate questions to HRC.  That's cheating.

i recall seeing "BoBo" on CNN during primary season ... circa mid-March, iirc - anyways, she was on a panel along with Bernie's campaign mgr. (or the assistant to) after he had made some inroads. 

she was so ####### condescending and arrogant to the Bernbot ... basically dismissing it all with a hand wave:  "Mr. Sanders message does not resonate in certain communities, and therefore, he is a flawed candidate - he will never carry those states that are crucial to securing the nomination or the General"  (now, that is not exactly verbatim, but it was the gist of her arrogance and Super Delegate hubris).

now, i'm a lifelong Republican voter, and didn't really care much for Mr. Sanders message/platform ... but at least he had one, and was energizing a very grass roots base ... he was going to be 'elected', not 'coronated' (like HRC). 

BoBo Brazile and wASSerman Schultz can both go #### themselves :bye:

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8 minutes ago, cap'n grunge said:

It was one question, but what does that have to do with the DNC?

The DNC did plenty of other shady things to tip the scale in favor of Hillary and it's well documented. Not sure why that needs to be relitigated now when more important events are unfolding that impact the country than an unfair primary process that is in the past.

Oh yeah, deflect and distract.

Just out of curiosity does the above bother you?  Has the DNC put steps in place to avoid repeating this? There are plenty of Bernie supporters who need to see change before they return to the DNC.

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5 minutes ago, Max Power said:

Just out of curiosity does the above bother you?  Has the DNC put steps in place to avoid repeating this? There are plenty of Bernie supporters who need to see change before they return to the DNC.

Absolutely it bothers me. I became a Bernie supporter during the primary season even though his politics were more to the left of mine. He was the only genuine decent person who had any sort of shot at getting elected. I have no idea of the internal going on of the DNC as I don't pay that close attention. IIRC though they recently basically collapsed and are rebuilding things from scratch. Hopefully many lessons were learned.

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2 minutes ago, cap'n grunge said:

Absolutely it bothers me. I became a Bernie supporter during the primary season even though his politics were more to the left of mine. He was the only genuine decent person who had any sort of shot at getting elected. I have no idea of the internal going on of the DNC as I don't pay that close attention. IIRC though they recently basically collapsed and are rebuilding things from scratch. Hopefully many lessons were learned.

I hope things are learned as well.  I'm very much an independent voter, however I was part of the Benghazi incident and could not vote for Hilary.  The fact that the DNC pushed her is mind-blowing.  I wont go back until the ship is corrected.

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24 minutes ago, otb_lifer said:

i recall seeing "BoBo" on CNN during primary season ... circa mid-March, iirc - anyways, she was on a panel along with Bernie's campaign mgr. (or the assistant to) after he had made some inroads. 

she was so ####### condescending and arrogant to the Bernbot ... basically dismissing it all with a hand wave:  "Mr. Sanders message does not resonate in certain communities, and therefore, he is a flawed candidate - he will never carry those states that are crucial to securing the nomination or the General"  (now, that is not exactly verbatim, but it was the gist of her arrogance and Super Delegate hubris).

now, i'm a lifelong Republican voter, and didn't really care much for Mr. Sanders message/platform ... but at least he had one, and was energizing a very grass roots base ... he was going to be 'elected', not 'coronated' (like HRC). 

BoBo Brazile and wASSerman Schultz can both go #### themselves :bye:

Agreed.  They are poison to the DNC.  

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14 minutes ago, Joe Summer said:


It was a debate, not a math test, wambulance chaser.

So are you okay with a TV station leaking their debate questions to one candidate ahead of time? 

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10 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I hope things are learned as well.  I'm very much an independent voter, however I was part of the Benghazi incident and could not vote for Hilary.  The fact that the DNC pushed her is mind-blowing.  I wont go back until the ship is corrected.

Were you the one to give the stand down order? 

The problem is, they haven't learned. They have gone all in with the lunatics. 

Edited by Dr. Dan

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4 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

Were you the one to give the stand down order? 

The problem is, they haven't learned. They have gone all in with the lunatics. 

I commanded the ISR overhead. Our TOC had no idea what was going on at the moment.  We found out Amb. Stevens died on facebook.

I like the DNC, just not Hil.  She was worthless in the days after. 

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Just now, Max Power said:

I commanded the ISR overhead. Our TOC had no idea what was going on at the moment.  We found out Amb. Stevens died on facebook.

I like the DNC, just not Hil.  She was worthless in the days after. 

That's terrible to hear. I appreciate your service. 

Hillary was a mess, evidence that the DNC doesn't have much of a bullpen. She's already talking about running again. She is a terrible human being and even worse politician. 

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3 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

That's terrible to hear. I appreciate your service. 

Hillary was a mess, evidence that the DNC doesn't have much of a bullpen. She's already talking about running again. She is a terrible human being and even worse politician. 

DNC needs to go Tulsi Gubbard.  She is a sure win for 2020.

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1 hour ago, cap'n grunge said:

In the spirit of bipartisanship and as a way to heal the country from our divisive and destructive politics, I propose the following individuals are removed from any position of authority and either jailed or deported:

Donald Trump

Mike Pence

Mitch McConnell

Paul Ryan

Hillary Clinton

Debbie W Schultz

Nancy Pelosi

A liberal to be named later.

Everyone good?

 

I'm good if the LTBNL is Al Franken. Additionally, while not politicians it would be great if we could also jail Ann Coulter, Lena Dunham, Alex Jones and Will Smith's two kids.

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4 minutes ago, Baloney Sandwich said:

I'm good if the LTBNL is Al Franken. Additionally, while not politicians it would be great if we could also jail Ann Coulter, Lena Dunham, Alex Jones and Will Smith's two kids.

Absolutely not. Al Franken is one of the good ones. You can have the rest.

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4 hours ago, cap'n grunge said:

Absolutely not. Al Franken is one of the good ones. You can have the rest.

lol

For a minute there I was starting to take you seriously

Edited by Dr. Dan
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On 5/25/2017 at 0:57 PM, cap'n grunge said:

In the spirit of bipartisanship and as a way to heal the country from our divisive and destructive politics, I propose the following individuals are removed from any position of authority and either jailed or deported:

Donald Trump

Mike Pence

Mitch McConnell

Paul Ryan

Hillary Clinton

Debbie W Schultz

Nancy Pelosi

A liberal to be named later.

Everyone good?

 

God, this would be glorious.

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On 5/25/2017 at 11:15 AM, Dr. Dan said:

Were you the one to give the stand down order? 

The problem is, they haven't learned. They have gone all in with the lunatics. 

What stand down order?  

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10 hours ago, Quez said:

I think Debs had communications issues in her own organization. Right now the DNC is contradicting her and is agreeing with the FBI version of events, though they are disputing Jeh Johnson's version about DHS reaching out to them before the GRU hacks. Fwiw the states often resisted DHS help as well for the same paranoia about being 'taken over' or surveiiled by DHS or FBI. Oh well.

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On 5/25/2017 at 8:53 AM, timschochet said:

DWS made some mistakes last year, no doubt, but she is a fine person and I've always liked her. 

Debbie did exactly what she set out to do - make sure Hillary was the nominee.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774

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On 5/25/2017 at 7:53 AM, timschochet said:

I didn't understand the article. 

DWS made some mistakes last year, no doubt, but she is a fine person and I've always liked her. 

It was always ridiculous. Hillary's campaign treasurer became chairman, her  & her husband's longtime strategist was vice-chairman, the former chairman became her VP.  I don't know if people ever really paid attention to party politics before but ultimately it wasn't just seemingly hamfisted it was hamfiated.

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27 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

It was always ridiculous. Hillary's campaign treasurer became chairman, her  & her husband's longtime strategist was vice-chairman, the former chairman became her VP.  I don't know if people ever really paid attention to party politics before but ultimately it wasn't just seemingly hamfisted it was hamfiated.

According to Gunz it's what real Democrats wanted so it's all good.

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