Anyone wanna talk DTs? (1 Viewer)

I'm curious as to what people are thinking on any and all matters of Defensive Tackles.

*Well except for leagues that de-value sacks.  

• the rookies.
  
• 2017 outlook.
  
• Dynasty outlook
  
• battles for starting spots
  
• deep bench flyers
  
• position placement, especially in the 3-4/4-3 changing landscapes
  
• even who are your current favorites (and will overdraft a bit)
  
• and who you will avoid (for whatever reason)
  
• etc.
  

Ill start with one interesting offseason note in particular...

Raiders current depth chart (ourlads) shows Darius Latham as a starter.  Likely a FA in many places.

BigSteelThrill said:

Another one Im sitting on since preseason that is similar if you have DT required is Raiders undrafted DT Darius Latham. He already is getting some snaps in and showing well.

He is going to miss this week, but he was the top PFF graded DT in the preseason and has shown he deserves to be in the league thus far.

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For me the number one guy I'm trying to acquire is Sheldon Rankins. I think he'll be a top 5 DT by this time next year with long term top 1 potential. I also like Brandon Williams and Grady Jarrett, but Williams is more of a potential solid tackle guy whereas Jarrett has more upside in terms of sacks. Jarrett was already a mid DT2 last season even though he only had three sacks on the season, but he's only getting better and we all witnessed those three sacks in the Super Bowl.

Some often overlooked guys that I tend to end up with on my teams are Clinton McDonald and Jonathan Hankins, solid starters that can be had late. And in deeper leagues I love Eddie Goldman's talent. He's a NT so he's not an ideal profile, but he's so good and when healthy he has flashed his potential for IDP. He only played 6 games last year but he averaged 3 tackles and 0.5 sacks per game.

And don't forget about Dareus. He was out for half the season but from he returned in week 8 he was the #1 DT in PPG* for the rest of the season (*depending on scoring setup).

As far as rookies go there isn't that prototypical high draft capital 3-tech to fall in love with. For the foreseeable future I don't see Thomas or Allen being designated as DTs. Allen is for sure not going to play NT so as long as they play 3-4 that's not going to happen, and the 49ers will be going with a more heavy front and only use Thomas inside in their speed packages so as long as we use base formations to designate positions he's going to be a DE.

In the 2nd round you have Malik McDowell. Carroll has already said that they'll play him at 5-tech and 3-tech where much like Thomas he will play outside in base and inside in nickel so I don't think he will get a DT designation.

The guy I've been looking at is Larry Ogunjobi, but we're talking IDP rookie round 7+ so he can be had in post-draft waivers in most leagues. He's got an interesting profile as the right kind of Sheldon Rankins, Geno Atkins, Aaron Donald type inside pass-rusher, but he's obviously not a finished product - he's got a long way to go to get to those guys. Ogunjobi started playing football as a sophomore in high school and he's from a small school program, but he's a sparq athlete, 36 wonderlic and had a great senior bowl, so he's intriguing to me in deep leagues. He fits a hole in that defense playing next to Shelton with Ogbah and Garrett on the outside. The opportunity is there if he can develop quickly enough to take it.

Louche said:

As far as rookies go there isn't that prototypical high draft capital 3-tech to fall in love with. For the foreseeable future I don't see Thomas or Allen being designated as DTs. Allen is for sure not going to play NT so as long as they play 3-4 that's not going to happen, and the 49ers will be going with a more heavy front and only use Thomas inside in their speed packages so as long as we use base formations to designate positions he's going to be a DE.

In the 2nd round you have Malik McDowell. Carroll has already said that they'll play him at 5-tech and 3-tech where much like Thomas he will play outside in base and inside in nickel so I don't think he will get a DT designation.

The guy I've been looking at is Larry Ogunjobi, but we're talking IDP rookie round 7+ so he can be had in post-draft waivers in most leagues. He's got an interesting profile as the right kind of Sheldon Rankins, Geno Atkins, Aaron Donald type inside pass-rusher, but he's obviously not a finished product - he's got a long way to go to get to those guys. Ogunjobi started playing football as a sophomore in high school and he's from a small school program, but he's a sparq athlete, 36 wonderlic and had a great senior bowl, so he's intriguing to me in deep leagues. He fits a hole in that defense playing next to Shelton with Ogbah and Garrett on the outside. The opportunity is there if he can develop quickly enough to take it.

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Right team, but I'm a lot more interested in Caleb Brantley.  Huge talent that fell due to off-field stuff but that seems to have been pretty well sussed out and dismissed.  Could be a steal for them. 

I second the comment on Goldman.  When he was healthy  (which wasn't often) he was a force.  He put up sacks and was decent for tackles.  For people that just look at year end stats he won't jump out but if he stays on the field he is a beast. 

Louche said:

For me the number one guy I'm trying to acquire is Sheldon Rankins. I think he'll be a top 5 DT by this time next year with long term top 1 potential. I also like Brandon Williams and Grady Jarrett, but Williams is more of a potential solid tackle guy whereas Jarrett has more upside in terms of sacks. Jarrett was already a mid DT2 last season even though he only had three sacks on the season, but he's only getting better and we all witnessed those three sacks in the Super Bowl.

Some often overlooked guys that I tend to end up with on my teams are Clinton McDonald and Jonathan Hankins, solid starters that can be had late. And in deeper leagues I love Eddie Goldman's talent. He's a NT so he's not an ideal profile, but he's so good and when healthy he has flashed his potential for IDP. He only played 6 games last year but he averaged 3 tackles and 0.5 sacks per game.

And don't forget about Dareus. He was out for half the season but from he returned in week 8 he was the #1 DT in PPG* for the rest of the season (*depending on scoring setup).

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if Fairley is out for good then I think you may be disappointed. Rankins did well with a motivated and talented Fairley alongside him to help. There is no one in the lineup to replace Fairley.

Now that waivers have run and he's on my team..... 

Malik McDowell is listed as a DT on Roto & MFL. Definitely worth a grab and stash as a DT listing that will see some DE play based on news thus far. 

Flying Elvis said:

Now that waivers have run and he's on my team..... 

Malik McDowell is listed as a DT on Roto & MFL. Definitely worth a grab and stash as a DT listing that will see some DE play based on news thus far. 

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Yeah, both McDowell and Thomas got moved to DT yesterday, but just to dig into my position I think it is likely that Breeze will have to move them both back before the season starts. There is no firm information out there that neither McDowell nor Thomas will play base DT so they've been moved based on speculation. McDowell played more 5-tech than 3-tech in rookie mini-camp and they've talked quite a bit about him being used as an elephant in base and taking the Michael Bennett role or the old 4-3 under Red Bryant role. He got 1st team nickel snaps at DT in yesterday's mini-camp, but that doesn't mean that he will not play base DE - and as long as Rotoworld designates player positions by looking at base formation I think it is more likely that he will end up being a DE in MFL. The only way I see them keeping him at DT is if he doesn't play any snaps in base and is purely a rotational sub-package 3-tech.

Intrigued with McDowell.  But I am of the impression he will be a lot like KCs Chris Jones in that he is sublimely disruptive on the field and just comes up  too short on stats that matter. 

If McDowell sticks at DT (unlike Jones in the NFL as a 3-4 End)  it certainly improves his chances on being usable imo.

Also like McDowell if he sticks.

Really looking forward to seeing the Dareus/Williams combo back in a 4-3 this year. Dareus was a late year stash for me so the transition has me pumped. I do wonder how many snaps they'll give to Washington who is another one with a solid prospect profile.

Curious to see if Collins in Dallas or Brown in New England can take another step forward this season. Brown was flat YOY, but he and Collins both finished the year strong.

I agree with the Caleb Brantley taek, wonderful things happening in Cleveland. Can you imagine trying to block Brantley and Garrett on one side while Shelton is anchoring the other interior spot? 

Regarding Thomas at DT, here's a post yesterday from the Sacbee 49ers beat writer:

1. DL Solomon Thomas. He took part in a rookie minicamp on May 5 but missed every other spring practice because Stanford's classes were still in session. Thomas' learning curve is not expected to be steep. In the rookie minicamp, he played the so-called 'big end" spot that Tank Carradine manned this spring. That's similar to one of his main positions at Stanford. Thomas has been able to watch 49ers practices via his iPad and may be part of a group that trains in Hawaii that includes DeForest Buckner, Arik Armstead, Ronald Blair, Eli Harold and Seahawks defensive end Michael Bennett. That trip would be valuable to Thomas since Bennett plays 'big end,' too.

http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/article156324159.html

It seems pretty clear that they at this stage are planning for Armstead at LEO, Thomas at 5T with Buckner rotating in, Mitchell at NT, and a combination of Buckner and run-stuffers like Dial at 3T in base depending on down, distance and offensive formation. In sub-packages they will get moved around with Mitchell coming out, Lynch and Dumervil as rotational edge rushers, Carradine as backup 5T and 3T, and Armstead and Thomas taking rotations inside. Injuries and training camp developments will force them to change their plans at some point, but right now it is pretty clear that this is their plan based on what the beat writers are saying. I'm interested to see if Armstead will handle the main LEO role or if they'll end up using Thomas or Lynch there more.

Guys I like long term that are free or close to it are A'Shaun Robinson and Adolphus Washington

The Santa Rosa Press Democrat questions whether RE Arik Armstead will play on passing downs this season.

Beat writer Grant Cohn suggests Armstead could get subbed out in passing situations for Ahmad Brooks and/or Elvis Dumervil, effectively limiting Armstead to an early-down, run-stuffer role. DeForest Buckner and Solomon Thomas are expected to be San Francisco's defensive tackles in sub-packages.

Ugh, all the way around. 

BigSteelThrill said:

The Santa Rosa Press Democrat questions whether RE Arik Armstead will play on passing downs this season.

Beat writer Grant Cohn suggests Armstead could get subbed out in passing situations for Ahmad Brooks and/or Elvis Dumervil, effectively limiting Armstead to an early-down, run-stuffer role. DeForest Buckner and Solomon Thomas are expected to be San Francisco's defensive tackles in sub-packages.

Ugh, all the way around. 

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Well, that's just speculation so don't take that for a fact. These guys are going to get moved around a lot, in a lot of different packages, so it's not like Buckner and Thomas are going to play every DT snap in sub. In any case I don't think it was very realistic to see Armstead at LEO in sub, but they can use him at both nose, 3T and strongside end.

There's a ton of competition at LEO in sub-packages. If Lynch is motivated and gets in shape he's a strong option at sub-LEO. Eli Harold is a very exciting young guy who is likely competing with Brooks for starting SAM in base, but he could be a great fit as sub-LEO and have 7-9 sacks if he hits. They signed Dumervil who will compete for sub-LEO, we might see some Ahmad Brooks, plus Solomon Thomas might get snaps there. So yeah, it's crowded. Behind all of those you have Pita Taumoepenu who is a pure rotational LEO, if he makes the roster.

But if they're going with Thomas and Buckner inside then Armstead's main competition at strongside end is Tank Carradine so I would figure that Armstead would be the starting nickel option there. Brooks and Dumervil are not going to play 5T. They might have some speed rush packages where they'll go with two lighter outside pass rushers in dime 3rd and long, but their primary nickel will be with a 4T/5T. It's not like Armstead will be an every down guy, but I think he'll probably play 60-65% of snaps. Is that going to be enough to be fantasy relevant? Hmm...well, he would certainly need to take some steps if he's going to be a starting IDP option.

Edit: Saleh told a beat writer yesterday that Buckner's snap count was criminal last year and that he was looking to decrease his snap count from 1000 to around 500-600. So as expected they are going to rotate their linemen much like SEA does, making it hard for any of these SF linemen to be top IDPs.

Picked up abry jones (JAX). I needed DT help and think he may earn more snaps this year. He's done well with the snaps he's had, so if you're in a deep league you may find him kicking around on the ww. Won't be a world beater, but if you need a flyer...