What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (2 Viewers)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Yeah, I love the irony of him explaining pick protections. 
Interesting article. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/nets/worst-trade-back-nets-celtics-deal-2013-article-1.3255407?cid=bitly

I don't know that I realized that they couldn't protect it.

“Looking back, my one regret — and I know Billy gets a lot of arrows for the swap rights for this year — was that I shouldn’t have done the swap, or that I should’ve put some type of protection on the swap there looking back on everything,” Marks said. “It wasn’t just Billy. This was a group decision here. This was the group in the room.”

While tinkering with the swap was a possibility, the Nets weren’t allowed to place protections on the three draft picks they traded because of a league rule limiting teams from dealing too many in a seven-year window.

It was installed to protect teams against themselves, except in this case it only pushed Brooklyn further to the point of no return.

 
“The arrogance in the room was that we were going to roll, we were going to win these next couple of years,” said a former Nets staff member who was in the draft room. “Maybe not the championship, but we were going to win the next couple of years and have sustainable success. We were going to keep signing free agents. We were always going to draft between 20 and 30. So if we’re going to swap with the Celtics, who gives a f--k? That definitely was the thought.”
Overeager negotiating had been a problem of GM Billy King. Even before the Celtics deal, he relinquished four total first-round picks in trades for Williams, Wallace and Joe Johnson. He had offered up many others in proposals for Carmelo and Dwight Howard, all under ownership’s directive that stars were required for the move from New Jersey to Brooklyn.

“Billy’s literally like an addicted gambler when he’s close to doing those trades,” said an opposing executive. “He’ll do anything when it reaches a certain point.
Despite his grand proclamations and heavy financial commitment, Prokhorov was never around and rarely talked to anybody besides the Russian underlings he left behind, namely his liaison in the room, Dmitry Razumov.

Razumov, the chairman of the board of directors, acted in many ways as the owner of the Brooklyn Nets, operating out of the spotlight but very much enjoying the glamorous perks that accompanied the position like courtside seats next to Jay Z. His background was in investment banking and he knew nothing about basketball before joining the Nets. But Razumov wanted the deal for Garnett and Pierce. He wanted it the same way he wanted to trade those same draft picks for Carmelo Anthony and Dwight Howard.

“Dmitry’s a star chaser,” said a former Nets executive. “And Prokhorov and his people were obsessed with the flashiest things — the biggest yacht, the most expensive champagne, the biggest stars, the Mercedes.”

 
So am I reading it right that they only got one additional pick for moving down to 3? They must have the top-3 picks all ranked the same. 
You would think it is this or that it is part of what ever the next shoe to drop is...

 
It is an interesting article (I'm still reading). I'm not sure the quote is completely true though. Here is what Larry Coon's FAQ has to say:

"If a team trades two future first round picks and the first of those picks is protected, then that pick would be conveyed in the first draft in which the protection does not apply (as described above), and the second pick would be conveyed two years after the first pick is conveyed. But since both picks must be conveyed within seven years, the protection on the first pick cannot last longer than four years (i.e., the first pick must be conveyed by the fifth year)."

They could have had some conditional protections in there. They don't have to say 2014+2016+2018 picks it could have been 2014+2016(top 10 protected in 2016, top 5 protected in 2017, top 3 in 2018), pick #3 conveys 2 years after 2016/17/18 pick (lottery protected in 2018 and 2019) - if not conveyed it turns into 2019 2nd rounder. Teams do stuff like that pretty often (I think this is how the Lakers managed to keep their top 3 pick this year and not surrender their 2019 pick or whatever). And as mentioned in the article, they could have easily protected the swap.

The front office totally botched the trade, regardless of the spin some of the old FO guys are making in that article.

 
It is an interesting article (I'm still reading). I'm not sure the quote is completely true though. 
In re-reading it, I do think that the author may have written that sloppily to get across some point that they had certain things preventing them from protecting everything, I guess to cut the Nets a little slack, but you're right that the sentence on its face doesn't really make sense.

 
I would be shocked if the Celtics don't make a big deal...it feels like this deal is step 1 towards whatever Ainge is trying to accomplish this offseason...with the #3 this year, the Nets pick next year, the Lakers/Kings pick in either 18 or 19, their own two picks in 18/19 and the Grizzlies and Clippers pick in 19 they are loaded up to make a big move...if they could somehow come out of this with something like Jimmy Butler-Gordon Hayward and a rookie like Jackson/Tatum/Isaac/Ball they will become a legit contender...that Brooklyn trade is turning into the Herschel Walker deal of the NBA...the fact Brooklyn did not include any lottery protection with four traded 1st-rounders is an all time great blunder... 
Well Billy King made the deal on Nets behalf. Myself living in Philly not a 76ers fans as well as 76ers fans can tell you how bad that guy was. 

 
Keep fighting the good fight
People actually b**** and moan about of topic threads here too even if they are in a different highly appropriate section of the board? This is one of the reasons I hardly post at the board I was at previously. people would get butthurt over a simple off topic thread. Some of the baseball fans being a baseball forum would lose it that an Eagles thread was created. I actually created it so posters wouldn't make like 20 new posts during and after a game on the same subject. Since that time there's only one idiot and I swear he does it for attention I mean his SN is RicCranium (Gives a hint what he's implying)and no matter what you tell him creates a thread on a topic everyone is already discussing already. 

 
Don't think the Celtics got nearly enough for the swap and I have no idea what they are doing if they keep it with the way next year's draft looks and what will be available at 3 this year.  This is basically waving the white flag on having to give IT a max contract.  Plus if they keep the pick and sign Hayward, the logjam at 3-4 seems awkward.  This is the draft to get the PG of the future and to not do so just seems wrong somehow (there isn't a top 5 PG next year).
I think they'd just use Smart who's like a Rondo. Let Thomas go and such. Smart is taller so defensively he's not a concern either. Like you said unless there's a big trade then the deal makes no sense and I agree I thought Ainge could fleece BC considering his track record of transactions. Plus people are assuming Bos is keeping the #3 pick. If I'm Indy or Chicago I'd insist that pick is included 

 
So am I reading it right that they only got one additional pick for moving down to 3? They must have the top-3 picks all ranked the same. 
I think Shelburn's tweet makes a little more sense of this trade. 

"General league reaction to Sixers-Celtics trade: There's a reason it's happening early. Both teams still maneuvering."

 
I've seen him play just not consistently. I have a Cousin in Sea who's a Sixers fan who wasn't impressed with him and doesn't like him at one. There were other issues not Fultz fault in the way like Murray Chriss leaving but apparently PAC Defenses are pretty weak compared to the other comp. Plus it's unheard of for a top East recruit to go to the West Coast like that. They usually stay in the east. I've seen the guy play just wasn't all that impressed. I'm skeptical these days of prospects in general in sports. 

 
You've chosen to ignore content by DJackson10. Options 

You've chosen to ignore content by DJackson10. Options 

You've chosen to ignore content by DJackson10. Options 

You've chosen to ignore content by DJackson10. Options 

You've chosen to ignore content by DJackson10. Options 

 
You've chosen to ignore content by DJackson10. Options 

You've chosen to ignore content by DJackson10. Options 

You've chosen to ignore content by DJackson10. Options 

You've chosen to ignore content by DJackson10. Options 

You've chosen to ignore content by DJackson10. Options 
:thumbup:

Thread is so much more bearable with him and Weebs on ignore.

 
I've seen him play just not consistently. I have a Cousin in Sea who's a Sixers fan who wasn't impressed with him and doesn't like him at one. There were other issues not Fultz fault in the way like Murray Chriss leaving but apparently PAC Defenses are pretty weak compared to the other comp. Plus it's unheard of for a top East recruit to go to the West Coast like that. They usually stay in the east. I've seen the guy play just wasn't all that impressed. I'm skeptical these days of prospects in general in sports. 
His numbers are off the charts.

He is being projected as a close comparison to Dwayne Wade.

 23ppg  5 plus assists.shot 50 percent for 2s and 40 from 3s.  Can defend. Great size.  Not even 20 years old

If he's even close to wade it's a great pick.  Washington's team was garbage this past year

 
Petually b**** and moan aboubutt of topic threads here too even if they are in a different highly appropriate section of the board? This is one of the reasons I hardly post at the board I was at previously. people would get butthurt over a simple off topic thread. Some of the baseball fans being a baseball forum would lose it that an Eagles thread was created. I actually created it so posters wouldn't make like 20 new posts during and after a game on the same subject. Since that time there's only one idiot and I swear he does it for attention I mean his SN is RicCranium (Gives a hint what he's implying)and no matter what you tell him creates a thread on a topic everyone is already discussing already. 
     is   

 
People acollege b**** and moan about of topic  threads here too even if they are in a different highly appropriate section of the board? This is one of the reasons I hardly post at the board I was at previously. people would get butthurt over a simple off topic thread. Some of the baseball fans being a baseball forum would lose it that an Eagles thread was created. I actually created it so posters wouldn't make like 20 new posts during and after a game on the same subject. Since that time there's only one idiot and I swear he does it for attention I mean his SN is RicCranium (Gives a hint what he's implying)and no matter what you tell him creates a thread on a topic everyone is already discussing already. 
 friend    "" a   

 
I've seen him play just not consistently. I have a Cousin in Sea who's a Sixers fan who wasn't impressed with him and doesn't like him at one. There were other issues not Fultz fault in the way like Murray Chriss leaving but apparently PAC Defenses are pretty weak compared to the other comp. Plus it's unheard of for a top East recruit to go to the West Coast like that. They usually stay in the east. I've seen the guy play just wasn't all that impressed. I'm skeptical these days of prospects in general in sports. 
He was a late riser as a recruit.  Cut from his team as a sophomore.  So he's pretty much Michael Jordan.  Without being a total #####. So better than MJ.

 
Paul George has let the Pacers know that he plans to leave them in free agency in 2018.

Anybody other than the Lakers interested in trading for him? I'm not sure the Pacers are going to get much for him, in fact, I don't think the Lakers will even make a play for him before free agency. The Pacers ####ed up not trading him at the deadline. They'll be able to get a middling first rounder, maybe even two, but anything more for a rental is a waste of assets.

 
Paul George has let the Pacers know that he plans to leave them in free agency in 2018.

Anybody other than the Lakers interested in trading for him? I'm not sure the Pacers are going to get much for him, in fact, I don't think the Lakers will even make a play for him before free agency. The Pacers ####ed up not trading him at the deadline. They'll be able to get a middling first rounder, maybe even two, but anything more for a rental is a waste of assets.
Celtics

 
Paul George has let the Pacers know that he plans to leave them in free agency in 2018.

Anybody other than the Lakers interested in trading for him? I'm not sure the Pacers are going to get much for him, in fact, I don't think the Lakers will even make a play for him before free agency. The Pacers ####ed up not trading him at the deadline. They'll be able to get a middling first rounder, maybe even two, but anything more for a rental is a waste of assets.
Cavs can flip him for Love and hope :shrug:  

 
Cavs can flip him for Love and hope :shrug:  
If the Pacers trade him, they don't want Love. They don't want to be saddled with that contract for a guy that isn't going to help them win anything, if they do trade him to the Cavs for Love it is because of what else the Cavs add to the trade and I don't think they have a lot to offer. 

They wouldn't even want him straight up for George to flip him. You would be taking 60 cents on the dollar for George and then be lucky to get 80 cents on the dollar for Love. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If the Pacers trade him, they don't want Love. They don't want to be saddled with that contract for a guy that isn't going to help them win anything, if they do trade him to the Cavs for Love it is because of what else the Cavs add to the trade and I don't think they have a lot to offer. 

They wouldn't even want him straight up for George to flip him. You would be taking 60 cents on the dollar for George and then be lucky to get 80 cents on the dollar for Love. 
I think Indy is one of those organizations that doesnt like to bottom out, so adding Love for George seems like something they would do.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If the Pacers trade him, they don't want Love. They don't want to be saddled with that contract for a guy that isn't going to help them win anything, if they do trade him to the Cavs for Love it is because of what else the Cavs add to the trade and I don't think they have a lot to offer. 

They wouldn't even want him straight up for George to flip him. You would be taking 60 cents on the dollar for George and then be lucky to get 80 cents on the dollar for Love. 
They would include a third team (Denver, Minnesota, Miami, NY?) In the trade to take Love.

 
Pritchard has been the GM since 2012. Indy has trouble drawing fans even when they are decent, they may not want to risk a total tear down if they can avoid it. 
I was assuming he meant from further out than 2012, but okay. How much further can they fall? They barely are making the playoffs with George, they aren't making it without George and with Love they might make the playoffs and might not. Indy will have trouble drawing fans if they are 6th or worse in the East or picking in the lottery. At least with the lottery there is hope that the next George is on the way.

 
As a Pacers fan, I would be pissed if they traded for Love. That's making a move for the sake of making a move. They'd be better off letting George walk for nothing and going into rebuild.

Man, Larry Bird really screwed the Pacers as the GM. He was absolutely terrible at it and walked away leaving them a husk of a team.

 
As a Pacers fan, I would be pissed if they traded for Love. That's making a move for the sake of making a move. They'd be better off letting George walk for nothing and going into rebuild.

Man, Larry Bird really screwed the Pacers as the GM. He was absolutely terrible at it and walked away leaving them a husk of a team.
Nope.  The players didn't play.   :whistle:

 
Fun offseason so far, #1 pick already traded, PG openly available, Boston with tons of assets.  

Price for PG rental is going to tank his value.  I wonder if Boston goes for the P rental and tries to sign Hayward or Griffin, how would they match up vs Cleveland?

Dubs should offer Iggy(sign & trade) + McCaw for PG.  The hate would be next level!

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Top