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Any legal recourse (new home construction problems)? (1 Viewer)

ghostguy123

ghostguy123

Footballguy
A couple of my friends bought and moved into a newly built home this past September (Northeast Ohio, house was built fairly quick and finished in September).  Since then there have been a plethera of problems, and they have gotten quite the run around on trying to figure out who is responsible.  Here is a list of the ones I know of:

- A/C conked out.  They said there was a part needed that cost about $200.  They were told they were responsible for the cost.

- The countertops were pulling away from the wall

- Some of the flooring was peeling up

- The siding was bubbling on the whole side of the house and just looks terrible

- several roof leaks

- Several cracks in the pavement driveway

Apparently the builder told them that the "house needed to settle through all the seasons", and that this was all normal.  Supposedly they are going to work with my friends to get things fixed (will believe it when I see it), but would they have any sort of case for buying a lemon of a home?  This is a pretty popular building company that has built a lot of houses in the area (though not a great reputation at all). 

 
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Boring answer - they have to call a lawyer, or at minimum read their contract to see what it says about such things. I would not take the builder's word that they should take a "wait and see approach" and his handshake agreement that he will "work with" them. They may need to provide some formal notice to the builder, and passage of time could affect their rights. Potentially an expensive, horrible situation to be in.

 
Most builders will still do a home warranty for new construction just to cover maintenance items like the HVAC.  

The rest of it will need a lawyer for and will depend on the state how easy this is.  Obvious suggestion is to document everything with dates and email paper trail of all the issues.  

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Boring answer - they have to call a lawyer, or at minimum read their contract to see what it says about such things. I would not take the builder's word that they should take a "wait and see approach" and his handshake agreement that he will "work with" them. They may need to provide some formal notice to the builder, and passage of time could affect their rights. Potentially an expensive, horrible situation to be in.
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This is all stuff I told them myself.  Call a lawyer, have everything photographed and all communication with builder documented. 

 
culdeus said:
Most builders will still do a home warranty for new construction just to cover maintenance items like the HVAC.  

The rest of it will need a lawyer for and will depend on the state how easy this is.  Obvious suggestion is to document everything with dates and email paper trail of all the issues.  
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There is a home warranty, but home warranties still leave room for extra expenses past the deductible for HVAC.

I am not sure if the home warranty covers the siding, but even if it does what would be the point in replacing crappy siding with the same crappy siding.

 
ghostguy123 said:
There is a home warranty, but home warranties still leave room for extra expenses past the deductible for HVAC.

I am not sure if the home warranty covers the siding, but even if it does what would be the point in replacing crappy siding with the same crappy siding.
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No, absolutely not.  No home warranty will cover anything but appliances and things like that or it's not a home warranty it's something else entirely.

Home builders do this because so often appliances turn out to be lemons and they don't want to deal with the hassle so they turn it over to the HW people.  

 
culdeus said:
No, absolutely not.  No home warranty will cover anything but appliances and things like that or it's not a home warranty it's something else entirely.

Home builders do this because so often appliances turn out to be lemons and they don't want to deal with the hassle so they turn it over to the HW people.  
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The home warranty I was using mentioned that it covered roof leaks.  Not sure to what extent though.

Oh yeah, and that's another thing, their roof is leaking in several spots.

 
ghostguy123 said:
The home warranty I was using mentioned that it covered roof leaks.  Not sure to what extent though.

Oh yeah, and that's another thing, their roof is leaking in several spots.
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Interesting: I just looked at AHS and in their FAQ they say

"Coverage varies depending on where you live. Items available for coverage typically include: central air conditioning systems, central heating systems, kitchen appliances, clothes washer and dryer, plumbing system, electrical system and roofleaks. Many of these items are included in the standard plan of the warranty.

 
Wow, I am feeling sick for them! Did they notice questionable craftsmanship during the construction? I lost about $2,000 once because of shoddy work by a contractor. I had no recourse other than to fire him. That made me sick enough but we overcame it pretty easy. Can't imagine how they feel with all the problems they are having. Best wishes for them and hope they can get everything fixed! 

 
Your friends are getting ####ed over.  He needs to man up now.  

1 there is no way a brand new AC should req any "missing part".  The contractor should have delivered him a fully functioning AC if it was brand new. 

2. Leaks and floors pealing and countertops shifting within 8 or so months of construction are just flat out bad workmanship.  Settling line is BS.  So they should except leaks for the rest of the time they live there bc of settling?? 

3 Driveway cracks this early means the ground was not properly prepared. I've had my driveway completely redone 5 years ago and still not a single crack   

You need to consult the contrsct.  Most builders offer at least 1 year warranty on workmanship. I would also talk to others in the development bc chances are if he sucked on their house, he sucked on all of them.  They should team up and hire a lawyer together.  

 
glvsav37 said:
 They should team up and hire a lawyer together.  
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That was also something I mentioned to them.  Go around and talk to people.  It definitely looks like ALL the houses (maybe 15 were built in the development) have problems with the siding. 

As for the "missing part" of the AC, maybe I said it wrong.  Nothing was missing, just a malfunction and the part replacement was like 200 bucks or something like that.  Not sure if they were on the hook for the part or the labor or both.  Who knows. 

 
glvsav37 said:
chances are if he sucked on their house, he sucked on all of them.
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About 2 years ago someone I trust with this kind of stuff told me never to use these builders cause their work was downright dreadful.  Turns out she seems to be pretty spot on. 

 
ghostguy123 said:
That was also something I mentioned to them.  Go around and talk to people.  It definitely looks like ALL the houses (maybe 15 were built in the development) have problems with the siding.
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Being part of a group that jointly hires a lawyer to press a common issue against the builder is advantageous in some respects (cost, for one) but also has potentially significant drawbacks.  They definitely want to avoid a situation in which they are footing the bill and the neighbors all ride the coattails. I would want to meet with a lawyer first, and raise this potential with him if appropriate, then approach neighbors if that is the strategy they decide to pursue.  If the builder has limited insurance or resources, you want to be the early squeaky wheel in this situation and hopefully get your stuff fixed first before the avalanche of claims gets underway.

 
A/c is usually warranted by manufacturer from 3-5 years. Usually part is covered, need to pay for labor. We have a 4 year old home and had our Carrier a/c fixed twice so far. Labor was a third of the parts.

 
ghostguy123 said:
- A/C conked out.  They said there was a part needed that cost about $200.  They were told they were responsible for the cost.
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I can speak to this one specifically. Pretty much all HVAC equipment has at least a 5 year parts warranty - even builders grade units. And typically an installing company puts a 1-year warranty on their labor for most installs.

Now, if the guy used some low cost dope with a truck HVAC guy, they are probably out of luck on the labor part. But that repair should be 100% covered by the installing company. If they put a sticker on the unit, have them call them directly if they haven't already.

 
We're just beginning the process and our builder told us as 1 year home warranty is industry standard on any construction defects.  For mechanical issues for appliances and whatnot we get the manufacturers warranty which is typically 1-3 years.  Your friends should have some recourse but if I were them I'd contact a lawyer asap just to be safe.

 
I've done a new home purchase before and it was a bit messy with who owns what.  I'm going through a new home purchase again at the moment and getting everything in writing.   from what I've learned, if it isn't exactly spelled out in the contract, you are SOL.  You'll run out of court fees before they will. 

 
ghostguy123 said:
That was also something I mentioned to them.  Go around and talk to people.  It definitely looks like ALL the houses (maybe 15 were built in the development) have problems with the siding. 

As for the "missing part" of the AC, maybe I said it wrong.  Nothing was missing, just a malfunction and the part replacement was like 200 bucks or something like that.  Not sure if they were on the hook for the part or the labor or both.  Who knows. 
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If nothing else make sure to contact BBB and whatever sites you can post reviews. 

Class action makes some sense but cletus is right. 

 
Tom Skerritt said:
For those who love to bash realtors... a good realtor could have covered them for all of this.  
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Most of us don't know what a good realtor looks like or what questions to ask. Want to help us out here? I have bought 3 houses in my adult life and each time my realtor I find gets worse. 

 
Pipes said:
We're just beginning the process and our builder told us as 1 year home warranty is industry standard on any construction defects.  For mechanical issues for appliances and whatnot we get the manufacturers warranty which is typically 1-3 years.  Your friends should have some recourse but if I were them I'd contact a lawyer asap just to be safe.
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I'm an architect in NYC- this is standard for us too. 

but I'm used to working with ultra high-end contractors for 1%er clients. these contractors (and us) will typically eat a lot of costs even past that first year just to keep and make the client happy. these people typically have a couple other houses that need work and move often, providing more work later... also give great referrals. been a long time since I've had to deal with a contractor that would just walk away from this kind of stuff.

 
msudaisy26 said:
Most of us don't know what a good realtor looks like or what questions to ask. Want to help us out here? I have bought 3 houses in my adult life and each time my realtor I find gets worse. 
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How long have you been a realtor?

how many houses a year do you sell?

can I have a list of references? (Then call them)

what do you know about the inspection process?  A good realtor should be able to spot problems while doing walk through before an inspector is hired. 

Has he won any awards for selling?

my brother has been a realtor for 20+ years in MN. He owns 8 rental properties and always makes the to 50 realtors list.  My friend used him and saved an additional 5k off price because sellers wanted to stay in home a bit longer. 

He told me that people who use friends who just started in the business should understand that they will typically lose 5k above and beyond commission to realtor simply because new realtors don't know what they are doing. 

I believe he also told me that he has insurance to cover problems like these and sometimes just pays out of pocket to fix a problem for his customer if that problem was missed. For example if your AC went out and it was a 200 dollar fix, he'd just pay it to keep customer happy. 

 
Anyone that is building a house needs to get a home inspection before the dry wall goes up and one more prior to closing.  A good inspection will save you so much time, money and hassle in the future. 

 
ghostguy123 said:
A couple of my friends bought and moved into a newly built home this past September (Northeast Ohio, house was built fairly quick and finished in September).  Since then there have been a plethera of problems, and they have gotten quite the run around on trying to figure out who is responsible.  Here is a list of the ones I know of:

- A/C conked out.  They said there was a part needed that cost about $200.  They were told they were responsible for the cost.  Could be a lemon

- The countertops were pulling away from the wall   Might be somewhat normal due to settling. Depends how bad.

- Some of the flooring was peeling up   Same as above. Depends on the type of floor / how bad.

- The siding was bubbling on the whole side of the house and just looks terrible  Not normal. Settling is a lame excuse.

- several roof leaks  Again, not normal.

- Several cracks in the pavement driveway   all driveways seem to crack at some point, no matter the material. So soon is probably not normal.

Apparently the builder told them that the "house needed to settle through all the seasons", and that this was all normal.  Supposedly they are going to work with my friends to get things fixed (will believe it when I see it), but would they have any sort of case for buying a lemon of a home?  This is a pretty popular building company that has built a lot of houses in the area (though not a great reputation at all). 
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The roof and siding are biggies, imho. The other stuff is frustrating for a new house, but not entirely uncommon. All houses have issues like that, some sooner than others. 

 
We recently built a new home and had some of the same issues.  All of the items listed except the concrete are covered under our 2 year builder warranty.  Our builder would cover cracks greater than 3/8ths inch and any crack where the concrete is not even.

A/C should be covered by the manufacturer or the builder.  Countertops pulling away could be due to settling or shrinking of the studs.  Floor could be shrinkage of floor joist or settling.  The siding buckling could be from the siding being to tight and not having any give to expand due to heat.  We have had our builder out twice for this and they remove and reattach the siding.  Roof leaks are not normal.  Did they use rebar in the driveway?

 
bcat01 said:
We recently built a new home and had some of the same issues.  All of the items listed except the concrete are covered under our 2 year builder warranty.  Our builder would cover cracks greater than 3/8ths inch and any crack where the concrete is not even.

A/C should be covered by the manufacturer or the builder.  Countertops pulling away could be due to settling or shrinking of the studs.  Floor could be shrinkage of floor joist or settling.  The siding buckling could be from the siding being to tight and not having any give to expand due to heat.  We have had our builder out twice for this and they remove and reattach the siding.  Roof leaks are not normal.  Did they use rebar in the driveway?
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A buddy of mine lays concrete for a living. He told me that often times he will see driveways that are cracked because when installed they did not elevate the rebar like they should and instead just place it on top of the sand/dirt. They need to elevate it a bit to get it more in the middle of it. I know that doesn't help you now but it's good info none the less. When we built I was at the house often just to keep an eye on them. I don't know squat about building a home however I think it lets the contractor know you're keeping an eye on them. 

 
Tom Skerritt said:
For those who love to bash realtors... a good realtor could have covered them for all of this.  
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They had a realtor.  And realtors DO suck and are scum.  Sure, there are probably 9 good ones out there across the country though.

 
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berndog said:
Anyone that is building a house needs to get a home inspection before the dry wall goes up and one more prior to closing.  A good inspection will save you so much time, money and hassle in the future. 
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Home inspectors are scum also.  Only terrible experiences with them, and also people I know only have terrible experience. 

 
When you people say "a good realtor" or "a good home inspector", do you not realize that everyone KNOWS that a good realtor and a good home inspector are extremely valuable?  That isn't the problem.

The problem is actually knowing how to find one, and getting lucky to be able to find one.  99.99999% of people do not know how to find good ones, and you telling us what questions to ask does nothing for this process.  How do we interpret those answers?  99.99999% of people will never have the experience needed to actually be able to choose wisely. 

 
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ghostguy123 said:
That was also something I mentioned to them.  Go around and talk to people.  It definitely looks like ALL the houses (maybe 15 were built in the development) have problems with the siding. 

As for the "missing part" of the AC, maybe I said it wrong.  Nothing was missing, just a malfunction and the part replacement was like 200 bucks or something like that.  Not sure if they were on the hook for the part or the labor or both.  Who knows. 
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I would not recommend this approach.  Teaming up could end up being too costly for the builder and he may just go bankrupt and walk away from it all.  

I'd just focus on your own situation and not look to bring in an entire development, because if the builder is hard to get one house repaired do you really think they are going to repair 15 houses?  Why do you need to bring in other people to proof that there are roof leaks and siding issues?  You don't need their help to show the obvious. 

 
massraider said:
Should probably just dig a hole in the ground and live in that.  
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My home inspector didnt even know that my heating/cooling unit was a heat pump, and didnt even check the air filter which looked like carpet because it hadnt been changed in so long.

Yeah, he was real helpful and well worth the money.  My previous guy was no better.  

What qualifications are needed to be a home inspector anyway?  A business card and a phone number?

 
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boots11234 said:
How long have you been a realtor?

how many houses a year do you sell?

can I have a list of references? (Then call them)

what do you know about the inspection process?  A good realtor should be able to spot problems while doing walk through before an inspector is hired. 

Has he won any awards for selling?

my brother has been a realtor for 20+ years in MN. He owns 8 rental properties and always makes the to 50 realtors list.  My friend used him and saved an additional 5k off price because sellers wanted to stay in home a bit longer. 

He told me that people who use friends who just started in the business should understand that they will typically lose 5k above and beyond commission to realtor simply because new realtors don't know what they are doing. 

I believe he also told me that he has insurance to cover problems like these and sometimes just pays out of pocket to fix a problem for his customer if that problem was missed. For example if your AC went out and it was a 200 dollar fix, he'd just pay it to keep customer happy. 
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This is a very good post about using friends as realtors.  it's amazing how often it ruins the friendship also.  

I've never heard of insurance a realtor has to cover items like this.   Might be that he purchased or negotiated a home warranty from. a home warranty company.   

Big thing with new constructionis to check how the builder backs up his warranty.  Have them give references on this.  

I'm doing a new construction home for a client right now.  I begged her to have me at every meeting and to review everything before she sign anything.  Well, she didn't think me going to the design center was a big thing.  Now she is stuck with 7k upgrade she chose and doesn't want any more.  She quickly made the choice. I would have never let her rush the process.  

Also, many builders don't want to fix anything until year one is almost up and then they will fix all the warranty items at once.  

 
ghostguy123 said:
My home inspector didnt even know that my heating/cooling unit was a heat pump, and didnt even check the air filter which looked like carpet because it hadnt been changed in so long.

Yeah, he was real helpful and well worth the money.  My previous guy was no better.  

What qualifications are needed to be a home inspector anyway?  A business card and a phone number?
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I hired a knucklehead home inspector.  All home inspectors are scum.  

 
ghostguy123 said:
When you people say "a good realtor" or "a good home inspector", do you not realize that everyone KNOWS that a good realtor and a good home inspector are extremely valuable?  That isn't the problem.

The problem is actually knowing how to find one, and getting lucky to be able to find one.  99.99999% of people do not know how to find good ones, and you telling us what questions to ask does nothing for this process.  How do we interpret those answers?  99.99999% of people will never have the experience needed to actually be able to choose wisely. 
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This isn't as hard as people think.  Just call a company you feel comfortable with and ash for the designated broker.   

Explain the type of real estate scenario you have going on and ask them for 2 or 3 referrals as to whom can handle this best.   Like who are your top thee new construction agents?  Who works best with first time buyers?  

I've actually done this for a few in the ffa and got them exactly what they needed.  

 
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I wish your friends the greatest luck with their tough situation.  With that being said--I disagree with your assessment of realtors and home inspectors. To label people of two different professions as being "scum" because you have personally had a couple of bad experiences is flagrantly and laughably unfair.   It's far more likely that you are just an unlucky person than it is that two entire professions are "scummy".  I've purchased 3 investment properties over the last 4 years--using two different realtors.  Both realtors were people that I met randomly--and both ended up doing an amazing job getting me great deals.   I also had experiences with 3 different home inspectors--all of which did a very nice job.  In fact two of them spotted issues that enabled me to re-negotiate the price of two of my properties down by a total of $9k.   I hope that your luck with these professions changes for the better.  

 
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Is this in Twinsburg by chance? I've seen some posts from ppl I went to school with talking about a very shady builder in a new subdivision called Corbett's Farm.

 
ghostguy123 said:
You didnt answer the question at the end of my post.

What qualifications are needed to be a home inspector? Serious question.
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Depends on the state.

Texas is like 10-12 weeks of classes plus you have to prove relevant work experience of 5 years or more.  This can really be just about anything in home service which is why it's all a bunch of retired plumbers sick of dealing with people's ####.

 
ghostguy123 said:
Apparently the builder told them that the "house needed to settle through all the seasons", and that this was all normal. 
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I haven't fully caught up on the thread yet, but what the builder said is pure crap. And some of those problems sound pretty substantial (like the countertops pulling away from the wall --- the foundation could be moving and causing that) (and roof leaks are not normal on new homes and will continue to damage other things until they're fixed).

 
ghostguy123 said:
Home inspectors are scum also.  Only terrible experiences with them, and also people I know only have terrible experience. 
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GG123 sorry you have had a bad experience with realtors and home inspectors.  My experience has been the exact opposite and it was well worth my time to wade thru the slackers to find ones committed to their trade.  Hope you have better luck if you need one in the future. 

 
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