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Mods please merge this in to my consolidated thread please (1 Viewer)

R

RokNRole

Footballguy
I've been having an ongoing discussion with a friend about the Bible. I am , for lack of a better word, an atheist. I had read a good amount of the Bible when I was younger and I never disagreed with the words of Jesus but feel that everything else in the Bible twists the true meaning of his words. I feel that if you really read deep in to his words he is an atheist as well and is a very smart man trying to teach an archaic world. This lead me to search for an edited Bible consisting of just the word of Jesus to convey my point because I think it's a very different book if you take out all the heresay. I did some searching and this was the best I could find.

http://www.teachingsofjesus-inhiswords.com/

Ive already gotten a few pages in giving my friend my interpretation but I want to be sure I have a comprehensive source. I don't currently have a full unabridged Bible to go through so I'm not sure if I'm missing anything.

Is this a good source for only the words of jesus? If not please post a better version for comparison. What do you think of the theory that Jesus was actually one of histories first progressive atheists?

 
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What happened to you not polluting the board with a bunch of asinine and poorly spelled threads, and instead keeping your drivel confined to one general thread? 

 
Encyclopedia Brown said:
What happened to you not polluting the board with a bunch of asinine and poorly spelled threads, and instead keeping your drivel confined to one general thread? 
Click to expand...
The consolidated thread is about just my life, which I will not stray from.

This thread is about the life of Jesus.

 
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cap'n grunge said:
Wat?
Click to expand...
John 3:17

"Marvel not that I said unto thee, he must be born again"

Early in the text he's telling people not to just listen to him with wide eyes and ears, but to be reborn as a critical thinker. Only then can one truly understand.

He reaffirms this in John 4:21

"woman believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet in Jerusalem, worship the father"

Clearly people shouldn't just blindly follow the word of the elders and think for themselves.

 
He goes on in John 4:23

"But in the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the father in spirit and in truth, for the father seeketh such to worship him"

Saying this after earlier statements condemning a collective mentality he is revealing evil as a force seeking to suck the so called "true believers" in.

This is a constant archetype he uses throughout.

 
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cap'n grunge said:
https://youtu.be/JT0zjorR68A
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Falls perfectly in line with John 4:24

" God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and truth"

Ogre is not necessarily wrong on the surface. If Cat means dog to him then it's not truly wrong if he knows what a dog is.The nerds may not agree in principle but they are all on the same page. If in their hearts they feel the same then the words themselves are meaningless. They know where Ogre is coming from.

 
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Everything was supposed to go in the consolidated thread. Remember? No other new threads started? I also advised you to avoid politics and religion. 

These were intended to be near-term initiatives, but by near term, I meant a few months, not 48 hours. Look, you're a grown man and you can do what you like. I'm not ordering you around, I'm trying to show you a path. If you don't want to walk it, or you truly don't want to get to where the path was leading, let me know and I'll simply leave you to your own devices. 

 
RokNRole said:
I've been having an ongoing discussion with a friend about the Bible. I am , for lack of a better word, an atheist. I had read a good amount of the Bible when I was younger and I never disagreed with the words of Jesus but feel that everything else in the Bible twists the true meaning of his words. I feel that if you really read deep in to his words he is an atheist as well and is a very smart man trying to teach an archaic world. This lead me to search for an edited Bible consisting of just the word of Jesus to convey my point because I think it's a very different book if you take out all the heresay. I did some searching and this was the best I could find.

http://www.teachingsofjesus-inhiswords.com/

Ive already gotten a few pages in giving my friend my interpretation but I want to be sure I have a comprehensive source. I don't currently have a full unabridged Bible to go through so I'm not sure if I'm missing anything.

Is this a good source for only the words of jesus? If not please post a better version for comparison. What do you think of the theory that Jesus was actually one of histories first progressive atheists?
Click to expand...
Hearsay or heresy? 

It seems what you're really going for is to read only the hearsay.

 
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Evilgrin 72 said:
Everything was supposed to go in the consolidated thread. Remember? No other new threads started? I also advised you to avoid politics and religion. 

These were intended to be near-term initiatives, but by near term, I meant a few months, not 48 hours. Look, you're a grown man and you can do what you like. I'm not ordering you around, I'm trying to show you a path. If you don't want to walk it, or you truly don't want to get to where the path was leading, let me know and I'll simply leave you to your own devices. 
Click to expand...
Evilgrin is the herder in this RnR analogy

 
RokNRole said:
John 3:17

"Marvel not that I said unto thee, he must be born again"

Early in the text he's telling people not to just listen to him with wide eyes and ears, but to be reborn as a critical thinker. Only then can one truly understand.

He reaffirms this in John 4:21

"woman believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet in Jerusalem, worship the father"

Clearly people shouldn't just blindly follow the word of the elders and think for themselves.
Click to expand...
Those appear to be the words of John, I thought you we were talking about the words of Jesus?

 
Evilgrin 72 said:
Everything was supposed to go in the consolidated thread. Remember? No other new threads started? I also advised you to avoid politics and religion. 

These were intended to be near-term initiatives, but by near term, I meant a few months, not 48 hours. Look, you're a grown man and you can do what you like. I'm not ordering you around, I'm trying to show you a path. If you don't want to walk it, or you truly don't want to get to where the path was leading, let me know and I'll simply leave you to your own devices. 
Click to expand...
Sorry EG, I tried- time for the ignore list.

 
Jesus an atheist?  Not sure how you can read the gospels and come to that conclusion with any sort of critical thinking.

Jesus says in John 5 that he only does and says what the Father tells him to.  In the Lord's prayer (Matthew 6) he says, "Our Father, who is in heaven..."  Pretty clearly he believes in a heavenly being who he calls father which all of Judaism knew as Yaweh.

He was a revolutionary in his approach to the Lord, but to try to claim some cocamame idea that he was an atheist is just silly.

 
Rok, do yourself a favor and copy/paste the OP into your consolidated thread and delete this one entirely.

 
Evilgrin 72 said:
Everything was supposed to go in the consolidated thread. Remember? No other new threads started? I also advised you to avoid politics and religion. 

These were intended to be near-term initiatives, but by near term, I meant a few months, not 48 hours. Look, you're a grown man and you can do what you like. I'm not ordering you around, I'm trying to show you a path. If you don't want to walk it, or you truly don't want to get to where the path was leading, let me know and I'll simply leave you to your own devices. 
Click to expand...
I have the consolidated thread for my life stories but this is the story of Jesus.

Doesnt Jesus deserve his own thread?

 
Jayrod said:
Jesus an atheist?  Not sure how you can read the gospels and come to that conclusion with any sort of critical thinking.

Jesus says in John 5 that he only does and says what the Father tells him to.  In the Lord's prayer (Matthew 6) he says, "Our Father, who is in heaven..."  Pretty clearly he believes in a heavenly being who he calls father which all of Judaism knew as Yaweh.

He was a revolutionary in his approach to the Lord, but to try to claim some cocamame idea that he was an atheist is just silly.
Click to expand...
There was no Christianity at the time he was alive. God , Lord and Father mean different things at the time and context. He was speaking to a less advanced society and trying to communicate on their own terms.

 
RokNRole said:
I have the consolidated thread for my life stories but this is the story of Jesus.

Doesnt Jesus deserve his own thread?
Click to expand...
We talked about this.  You can disregard everything I advised you to do/not do - that's totally cool.  Go it on your own from here on out, you don't need advice nor a champion on this board.

 
Evilgrin 72 said:
We talked about this.  You can disregard everything I advised you to do/not do - that's totally cool.  Go it on your own from here on out, you don't need advice nor a champion on this board.
Click to expand...
Hey!!!

I've been taking side action, need you to stay alongside RokNRole until the weekend, please...

 
Evilgrin 72 said:
Everything was supposed to go in the consolidated thread. Remember? No other new threads started? I also advised you to avoid politics and religion. 

These were intended to be near-term initiatives, but by near term, I meant a few months, not 48 hours. Look, you're a grown man and you can do what you like. I'm not ordering you around, I'm trying to show you a path. If you don't want to walk it, or you truly don't want to get to where the path was leading, let me know and I'll simply leave you to your own devices. 
Click to expand...
In a way, EG is like RnR's own personal Jesus.

 
Evilgrin 72 said:
For some reason, every time I hear that song, I hear "Reach out ya f##kface..." instead of "Reach out and touch faith..."

And now you will too.  :lol:
Click to expand...
First time I heard that song, a guy in my dorm in college named Dave would yell DAVE over Faith. I still hear, "Reach out and touch DAVE!"

I like yours better

 
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RokNRole said:
There was no Christianity at the time he was alive. God , Lord and Father mean different things at the time and context. He was speaking to a less advanced society and trying to communicate on their own terms.
Click to expand...
Nonsense.  God was frequently called both Lord and Father in the Old Testament

Jer 31:9  They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

Isa 64:8  But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Isa 63:16  Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

Deu 32:6  Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?

1Ch 29:10  Wherefore David blessed the LORD before all the congregation: and David said, Blessed be thou, LORD God of Israel our father, for ever and ever.

Jer 3:19  But I said, How shall I put thee among the children, and give thee a pleasant land, a goodly heritage of the hosts of nations? and I said, Thou shalt call me, My father; and shalt not turn away from me.

Mal 1:6  A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?

Mal 2:10  Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

Pro 3:12  For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Psa 103:13  Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him.

Not only is God Almighty known as the “Father”, He calls His people as “Children”

Hos 1:10  Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

Isa 1:2  Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.

Exo 4:22,23  And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn: And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

Deu 14:1  Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.

Hos 11:1  When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Psa 82:6  I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Click to expand...

 
TheFanatic said:
First time I heard that song, a guy in my dorm in college named Dave would yell DAVE over Faith. I still hear, "Reach out and touch DAVE!"
Click to expand...
Lol.  I used to drive back and forth from WY to WI during school breaks.  I was on I-80 and the 6 disc changer was on random.  Personal Jesus starts playing as I pass the Maranatha Bible Camp just east of North Platte, NE. Coincidence?  :oldunsure:  

 
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Osaurus said:
Lol.  I used to drive back and forth from WY to WI during school breaks.  I was on I-80 and the 6 disc changer was on random.  Personal Jesus starts playing as I pass the Maranatha Bibke Camp just east of North Platte. Coincidence?  :oldunsure:  
Click to expand...
It was a sign. Have you given your life to that Athiest Jesus, yet? He's obviously talking to you via the stereo and your proximity to bibles. 

 
Red Rain started playing west of Des Moines and then it started raining.  Divine precipitation?  :oldunsure:

 
RokNRole said:
There was no Christianity at the time he was alive. God , Lord and Father mean different things at the time and context. He was speaking to a less advanced society and trying to communicate on their own terms.
Click to expand...
Sure.  None of that means Jesus was an atheist.  Judaism uses all sorts of different names for God.  He is a pretty complex being whose essence and nature is impossible to describe with words.  We are left trying to use words that describe a specific trait or aspect of God we are thinking of at the time.  Compared to God, we will always be a less advanced society.

 
Jayrod said:
Jesus an atheist?  Not sure how you can read the gospels and come to that conclusion with any sort of critical thinking.

Jesus says in John 5 that he only does and says what the Father tells him to.  In the Lord's prayer (Matthew 6) he says, "Our Father, who is in heaven..."  Pretty clearly he believes in a heavenly being who he calls father which all of Judaism knew as Yaweh.

He was a revolutionary in his approach to the Lord, but to try to claim some cocamame idea that he was an atheist is just silly.
Click to expand...
:oldunsure:

RokNRole said:
There was no Christianity at the time he was alive. God , Lord and Father mean different things at the time and context. He was speaking to a less advanced society and trying to communicate on their own terms.
Click to expand...
well, considering Jesus was teaching and the definition of Christianity is "the religion based on the person and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, or its beliefs and practices."  You'll need to show your work here. 

 
apalmer said:
Nonsense.  God was frequently called both Lord and Father in the Old Testament
Click to expand...
The Old Testament is irrelevant . That was written before Jesus. The only thing I'm focusing on are the words directly attributed to him and applying logic and context.

 
RokNRole said:
The Old Testament is irrelevant . That was written before Jesus. The only thing I'm focusing on are the words directly attributed to him and applying logic and context.
Click to expand...
Exactly the point. It's relevant to your claim that before Jesus "God", "Lord" and "Father" had different meanings and therefore the fact that Jesus called God "Father" somehow was proof that he was an atheist.  God had been called both "Lord" and "Father" for centuries predating Christianity.  You can't ignore that to come up with your hypothesis.

 
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apalmer said:
Exactly the point. It's relevant to your claim that before Jesus "God", "Lord" and "Father" had different meanings and therefore the fact that Jesus called God "Father" somehow was proof that he was an atheist.  God had been called both "Lord" and "Father" for centuries predating Christianity.  You can't ignore that to come up with your hypothesis.
Click to expand...
That isn't what I meant. I was talking about how he uses it to communicate his thoughts to others. He uses it in multiple ways because often in order to help people he has to trick them in to thinking differently.

 
Encyclopedia Brown said:
What happened to you not polluting the board with a bunch of asinine and poorly spelled threads, and instead keeping your drivel confined to one general thread? 
Click to expand...
I guess he wasn't getting enough attention with just one thread. So, he starts one about one of the biggest topics in the FFA, religion. 

I predict a political thread from this guy in the near future. 

 
RokNRole said:
I've been having an ongoing discussion with a friend about the Bible. I am , for lack of a better word, an atheist. I had read a good amount of the Bible when I was younger and I never disagreed with the words of Jesus but feel that everything else in the Bible twists the true meaning of his words. I feel that if you really read deep in to his words he is an atheist as well and is a very smart man trying to teach an archaic world. This lead me to search for an edited Bible consisting of just the word of Jesus to convey my point because I think it's a very different book if you take out all the heresay. I did some searching and this was the best I could find.

http://www.teachingsofjesus-inhiswords.com/

Ive already gotten a few pages in giving my friend my interpretation but I want to be sure I have a comprehensive source. I don't currently have a full unabridged Bible to go through so I'm not sure if I'm missing anything.

Is this a good source for only the words of jesus? If not please post a better version for comparison. What do you think of the theory that Jesus was actually one of histories first progressive atheists?
Click to expand...
That is not how you spell moron. HTH.

 
Evilgrin 72 said:
We talked about this.  You can disregard everything I advised you to do/not do - that's totally cool.  Go it on your own from here on out, you don't need advice nor a champion on this board.
Click to expand...
:(  

This brings me back to summer camp when I was 12. They had this Scottish soccer coach who was a former pro and saw some promise in my game and was all gung-ho to teach me everything he could. One day it was really hot out so I blew off the morning soccer session and went kayaking. I ran into the guy on the way back to my cabin and he ripped my head off. "Where the fook were you??! Havin' a bit of a swim at the lake innit?? Jesus Christ!! Don't show up again if you're just a shiftless, lazy fookin' crumb cruncha!! Bollocks!!!". I'm paraphrasing but he was literally purple from screaming at me. 

 
McGarnicle said:
:(  

This brings me back to summer camp when I was 12. They had this Scottish soccer coach who was a former pro and saw some promise in my game and was all gung-ho to teach me everything he could. One day it was really hot out so I blew off the morning soccer session and went kayaking. I ran into the guy on the way back to my cabin and he ripped my head off. "Where the fook were you??! Havin' a bit of a swim at the lake innit?? Jesus Christ!! Don't show up again if you're just a shiftless, lazy fookin' crumb cruncha!! Bollocks!!!". I'm paraphrasing but he was literally purple from screaming at me. 
Click to expand...
Was he Phil McCracken?

 
McGarnicle said:
:(  

This brings me back to summer camp when I was 12. They had this Scottish soccer coach who was a former pro and saw some promise in my game and was all gung-ho to teach me everything he could. One day it was really hot out so I blew off the morning soccer session and went kayaking. I ran into the guy on the way back to my cabin and he ripped my head off. "Where the fook were you??! Havin' a bit of a swim at the lake innit?? Jesus Christ!! Don't show up again if you're just a shiftless, lazy fookin' crumb cruncha!! Bollocks!!!". I'm paraphrasing but he was literally purple from screaming at me. 
Click to expand...
:lmao:

I'm not annoyed in this case, just puzzled.  I guess I'm naive, I thought he really wanted a blueprint to acceptance and friendship on this board, but I think all he really wants is to be a lightning rod.  That's fine, the world (and the board) needs all types.  I wish him nothing but the best.

 
Evilgrin 72 said:
:lmao:

I'm not annoyed in this case, just puzzled.  I guess I'm naive, I thought he really wanted a blueprint to acceptance and friendship on this board, but I think all he really wants is to be a lightning rod.  That's fine, the world (and the board) needs all types.  I wish him nothing but the best.
Click to expand...
No. I don't think you get it EG. All I did was make one thread about Jesus and then you are forsaking me.

 
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Evilgrin 72 said:
:lmao:

I'm not annoyed in this case, just puzzled.  I guess I'm naive, I thought he really wanted a blueprint to acceptance and friendship on this board, but I think all he really wants is to be a lightning rod.  That's fine, the world (and the board) needs all types.  I wish him nothing but the best.
Click to expand...
You reached out your hand to help him and he slapped it away. If I was you, I would not offer it again. 

 
RokNRole said:
That isn't what I meant. I was talking about how he uses it to communicate his thoughts to others. He uses it in multiple ways because often in order to help people he has to trick them in to thinking differently.
Click to expand...
That's like arguing that when Thomas Jefferson wrote that all men are entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, he was actually just trying to trick people into thinking differently about those things so that they'd understand they really needed a monarch who could control their lives. After all, there was no United States or Declaration of Independence then and it was a different time and life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness meant different things. 

 
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