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Return of the Mack...Marlon Mack, RB, Indy

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Until Henry popped that garbage time long one, Mack had the longest run of the game. He appeared in the first drive, split carries with Gore, then he was done. I wonder if he did something dumb like blow a blocking assignment.

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15 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Until Henry popped that garbage time long one, Mack had the longest run of the game. He appeared in the first drive, split carries with Gore, then he was done. I wonder if he did something dumb like blow a blocking assignment.

Two words: Chuck Pagano. 

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14 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Until Henry popped that garbage time long one, Mack had the longest run of the game. He appeared in the first drive, split carries with Gore, then he was done. I wonder if he did something dumb like blow a blocking assignment.

Well he probably would have helped them win the game which they apparently aren't interested in. Looking for the next Bjoern Werner.

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41 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Until Henry popped that garbage time long one, Mack had the longest run of the game. He appeared in the first drive, split carries with Gore, then he was done. I wonder if he did something dumb like blow a blocking assignment.

The carry I saw, Mack tried to bounce outside instead of taking what was blocked, and wound up losing 4 yards.

I'd imagine that kind of thing could get him in Pagano's doghouse.

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2 minutes ago, davearm said:

The carry I saw, Mack tried to bounce outside instead of taking what was blocked, and wound up losing 4 yards.

I'd imagine that kind of thing could get him in Pagano's doghouse.

:brokenrecord:

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It's so maddening to see players who are obviously much better than their counterparts sit on the sidelines, watching their team lose. Have the coaches around the league not noticed the young RB's coming in and adding life to their teams? When a guy comes in with that much passion, and talent, you let him lift your team. It does more than just improve your RB position, it makes everyone play better. I love Gore, but the guy just isn't going to break games open anymore. I'm not saying he's terrible, because he does a solid job most of the time. However, he is too old to carry a heavy workload, and doesn't do enough with limited touches to warrant him being your go to guy. Imagine Mack getting 80% of the backfield touches? I don't think that he needs that many to make a much larger impact, however I would love to see what he could do with that workload. I know that if I was coaching that team, I'd like to find out what the result of that would be. It isn't as if they are having a lot of success doing things the way that they currently are.

Also, I'm tired of hearing the "pass protection" aspect of why certain younger players don't get on the field as much. I mean, really... why have them on your team then? Isn't that what coaches are for? You had all training camp, and we are approaching week 7 in the regular season... you couldn't coach this guy up about where and how he needs to block on a pass play by now? That's insane. If you can't coach a guy up enough in that department to get him on the field in that amount of time... then either you shouldn't be coaching, or there isn't any point having a player on your team who can't learn the tools needed to stay on the field. Either way, I'm not buying it. 

 

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10 minutes ago, davearm said:

The carry I saw, Mack tried to bounce outside instead of taking what was blocked, and wound up losing 4 yards.

I'd imagine that kind of thing could get him in Pagano's doghouse.

I saw him rip off a 22 yard run straight up the middle.

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Yup, frustrating night. I wouldn’t go rushing to drop him, especially with what is on the wire. I think the rational people in this thread weren’t pushing to start him, just hoping the Colts would make a decision to make him an inclusive part of their offense. Can’t say I’m surprised Pagano and co. pulled this stunt. Others warned me earlier to taper the expectation but when you know a guy can be a game breaker it’s hard not to be a little overly zealous.

Edit to add: As a fan of football I look forward to Chuck Pagano going back to being an above average defensive coordinator because he’s a #### head coach.

Edited by Bojang0301
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Frustrating. Lost Rodgers so I was down a bunch of points and decided to play Mack over Henry (since I needed a miracle and though Mack had the better shot of breaking a couple of long TD's). Never thought I'd win anyway, so I took a shot.

Then Succup put up a monster performance and so did Henry so if I'd played him, I would have pulled it out.

Gonna keep Mack on the roster because there's nothing else out there, but that one hurts

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9 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Until Henry popped that garbage time long one, Mack had the longest run of the game. He appeared in the first drive, split carries with Gore, then he was done. I wonder if he did something dumb like blow a blocking assignment.

I don't have the snaps in front of me, but he played a decent amount.  Turbin played the entire last 2 minutes of each half (until he hurt his elbow), so that limited the work for Mack (& Gore).  On several of his plays, they motioned him out wide, and he didn't even seem to run a route.  Just stood there, looking at Brissett.  They threw him the ball 1 or 2 of those plays, but he dropped both (1 was high, the other I thought he could have caught).  Almost like they wanted him on the field, but out wide, as a decoy.

His first run was great.  A counter play that was well blocked, and he saw the cut back angle for the big gain.  Gore probably gets 7-8 yards on that play (which is good), but Mack's explosiveness allowed him to gain the extra 10 yards or so.  But his second run was (what has been) the knock on him; when he doesn't have a big hole, he tries to bounce it outside.  I am not sure if he had a crease where he could have plowed through for a short gain (waiting for SSND's video cut-ups), but he lost 4 yards, and put them in a negative down & distance situation when they were driving.  They ended up settling for a FG.  During the SNF game, Collinsworth made a comment about Darkwa/Gallman that I hadn't heard before where he said the coaches told him that Darkwa always runs the plays as drawn up, while Gallman doesn't always do so.  Several podcasts I listened to yesterday (Harris football, and maybe the Audible) commented on this.  They said they hadn't heard it, but if the coaches are seeing that in practice, that'd explain why Darkwa gets more work than Gallman if the coaches trust him to run the plays the way they want them run.  It's probably a similar situation with Gore/Mack.  The Ind coaches probably are seeing Mack "freelance" in practice & are waiting until they can trust him to run the plays the way they trust Gore.  As I've posted previously, the idea that Mack will supplant a healthy Gore to the tune of 60% Mack/40% Gore isn't realistic.

That being said, with Turbin (likely) out for a while, that could change the dynamic.  Maybe Mack gets more of those 2 minute drill touches/short-yardage touches?  Maybe Gore does (he was in there after Turbin got hurt last night).  Time will tell.

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8 hours ago, WiDDoW_MaKeR said:

I saw him rip off a 22 yard run straight up the middle.

You think that's the play that landed him on the bench?  Strange.

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2 hours ago, need2know said:

Really glad I burned my high waiver priority on this turd

Meh. He’s as good a lottery ticket as Breida, Collins, or Foreman - any of those guys could be a kingmaker if the circumstances change.

HB snaps last night:

Gore - 23

Turbin - 21

Mack - 14

Mack should see additional snaps going forward due to the unfortunate (ugly) injury to RT.

Gore has topped 50 yards once this year, has a long of just 21, scores twice in six games, has 100 receiving yards. 

The Colts desperately need a playmaker with speed. Mack is currently 2nd in the NFL in 20+ runs. On 27 carries.

In redraft he’s a hold IMO.

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If you can afford the bench spot to hold Mack, I don't think he's a bad hold.  The situation going forward could be conducive, beyond the Turbin injury.

While I was certainly hoping for a bigger role last night, the fact is this was a crucial division contest, if the Colts harbor hopes of going anywhere upon Luck's theoretical return.  It should not come as a surprise, then, that the Colts did not give an unproven rookie a bigger role in, what to them, was a huge game.

If the Colts lose to JAX next week, they will be two games out of first with an 0-2 record in the division.  Obviously they wouldn't be out of it, but they would be trending in that direction.  Moral of the story, more significant playing time for Mack in the second half of the season may not be that far away.

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1 hour ago, BobbyLayne said:

Meh. He’s as good a lottery ticket as Breida, Collins, or Foreman - any of those guys could be a kingmaker if the circumstances change.

HB snaps last night:

Gore - 23

Turbin - 21

Mack - 14

Mack should see additional snaps going forward due to the unfortunate (ugly) injury to RT.

Gore has topped 50 yards once this year, has a long of just 21, scores twice in six games, has 100 receiving yards. 

The Colts desperately need a playmaker with speed. Mack is currently 2nd in the NFL in 20+ runs. On 27 carries.

In redraft he’s a hold IMO.

I'm gonna hold him.  Just wanted to see more last night

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10 minutes ago, need2know said:

I'm gonna hold him.  Just wanted to see more last night

Your hope & my analysis both underestimate how irrational Chuck P can be in his management. Not particularly surprising from a team whose owner is the NFL equivalent of Hunter S. Thompson.

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11 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

Your hope & my analysis both underestimate how irrational Chuck P can be in his management. Not particularly surprising from a team whose owner is the NFL equivalent of Hunter S. Thompson.

We are in agreement the team is managed by boobs

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4 hours ago, otb_lifer said:

Turbin's elbow was bent in ways that are not fit for humans to watch - he will be out at least a month. 

don't sack the Mack just yet ...

This is the only thing that will have me hold him for another week. Frank Gore looked pretty good for an old guy, so I can't fault the coaching staff for keeping him in there. Turbin is the short yardage and 3rd down RB. It will be interesting to see who takes those reps now. I would expect Gore or someone else to pick that up, but it's worth a hold for another week to see how things shake out. Mack may have the ability to make some big plays, but generally a rookie in pass protection isn't ideal, so I wouldn't expect him to grab the 3rd down role. However, if Gore takes that 3rd down role, Mack should be given more opportunities to rotate in with him throughout the game to offset the additional usage for Gore.

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If you can afford the bench spot to hold Mack, I don't think he's a bad hold.


Depending upon league size and roster size....couldn't this statement apply to virtually every skill player in the NFL?

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18 minutes ago, Joe Summer said:


Depending upon league size and roster size....couldn't this statement apply to virtually every skill player in the NFL?

Yes, but the context of the comment I think is more meaningful.  Mack is a raw, unproven player whose main asset is his explosiveness on a team that may find itself on the outside of the playoff picture in the next few weeks.  With an older FA-to-be RB in front of him whom the team has little invested in and is almost assuredly not going to resign, it's not that difficult to envision the Colts deciding to see what they have in Mack.  As I noted, the Colts could be virtually three games out of first place as soon as next week.

Looking at the other RB flyers right now (Breida, McGuire, Collins come to mind), it's all guesswork but the path to significant playing time, in my opinion, seems easiest for Mack.  I accept that I have no idea what the 49ers are going to do, but Hyde may very well be in their future plans.  The Jets are ostensibly competing for the next phase of the season and have a winnable game in Miami next weekend.  Collins might be a stronger redraft play but I don't think there are many people on this board who would describe his potential as remarkable.

Perhaps I was inarticulate in my first comment.  If you can afford the bench spot, Mack has high potential to see playing time sooner rather than later, in my opinion.  What he'll do, idk.

If I was crunched for roster space, I would probably drop Mack for Darkwa right now for redraft purposes.

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4 hours ago, Bayhawks said:

I don't have the snaps in front of me, but he played a decent amount.  Turbin played the entire last 2 minutes of each half (until he hurt his elbow), so that limited the work for Mack (& Gore).  On several of his plays, they motioned him out wide, and he didn't even seem to run a route.  Just stood there, looking at Brissett.  They threw him the ball 1 or 2 of those plays, but he dropped both (1 was high, the other I thought he could have caught).  Almost like they wanted him on the field, but out wide, as a decoy.

His first run was great.  A counter play that was well blocked, and he saw the cut back angle for the big gain.  Gore probably gets 7-8 yards on that play (which is good), but Mack's explosiveness allowed him to gain the extra 10 yards or so.  But his second run was (what has been) the knock on him; when he doesn't have a big hole, he tries to bounce it outside.  I am not sure if he had a crease where he could have plowed through for a short gain (waiting for SSND's video cut-ups), but he lost 4 yards, and put them in a negative down & distance situation when they were driving.  They ended up settling for a FG.  During the SNF game, Collinsworth made a comment about Darkwa/Gallman that I hadn't heard before where he said the coaches told him that Darkwa always runs the plays as drawn up, while Gallman doesn't always do so.  Several podcasts I listened to yesterday (Harris football, and maybe the Audible) commented on this.  They said they hadn't heard it, but if the coaches are seeing that in practice, that'd explain why Darkwa gets more work than Gallman if the coaches trust him to run the plays the way they want them run.  It's probably a similar situation with Gore/Mack.  The Ind coaches probably are seeing Mack "freelance" in practice & are waiting until they can trust him to run the plays the way they trust Gore.  As I've posted previously, the idea that Mack will supplant a healthy Gore to the tune of 60% Mack/40% Gore isn't realistic.

That being said, with Turbin (likely) out for a while, that could change the dynamic.  Maybe Mack gets more of those 2 minute drill touches/short-yardage touches?  Maybe Gore does (he was in there after Turbin got hurt last night).  Time will tell.

Mack going off script is the main thing I and others have observed about him in college and that is likely an issue that continues to be a problem with the coaches trusting him.

I think pass protection and ball security are other issues of concern.

Mack can make big plays happen by going off script at times, thats why he does it, but he also loses a lot of yards from doing this at other times, and what coaches really will not like.

Snap counts for the Colts RB last night:

Frank Gore 23 offensive snaps 40% 10 rushing attempts 49 yards (4.9 ypc) 3 targets 2 receptions 18 yards

Robert Turbin 21 offensive snaps 36% 3 rushing attempts 3 yards (1 ypc) 5 targets 4 receptions 37 yards

Marlon Mack 14 offensive snaps 24% 2 rushing attempts  18 yards (9 ypc) 2 targets 0 receptions

Doyle played on 100% of the offensive snaps and all 3 WR played a lot of snaps, so they were in 11 personnel for most of the game. Aiken continues to outsnap Moncrief but Moncrief had the most targets besides Doyle in the most recent game.

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1 hour ago, Joe Summer said:


Depending upon league size and roster size....couldn't this statement apply to virtually every skill player in the NFL?

No.

Players who have no upside who are below replacement level are not worth a roster spot.

Replacement level depends on your roster size, starting requirements and scoring system.

Mack is below replacement level in most leagues right now at RB 49 in standard and RB 52 in PPR leagues, but he has the upside to be worth keeping because of how he scored in week one (RB 17 standard RB 24 PPR) and week five (RB 5 standard RB 8 PPR).

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I’m sure Chuck Pagano is a fine human being, but as a HC his decision making thought process is...interesting.

exhibit A

exhibit B

exhibit C

Look, I didn’t just achieve Absolute Zero, Indy fans & AFC South fans have known this for years, right? Amazing this guy has a job. Yeah, yeah, .600 win percentage. Can’t even win the easiest division two years running.

I’m dropping Mack solely on my assessment of Pagano’s ability to make good decisions. That guy is gonna run Gore into the line until he drops dead.

Edited by BobbyLayne
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6 hours ago, BobbyLayne said:

I’m sure Chuck Pagano is a fine human being, but as a HC his decision making thought process is...interesting.

exhibit A

exhibit B

exhibit C

Look, I didn’t just achieve Absolute Zero, Indy fans & AFC South fans have known this for years, right? Amazing this guy has a job. Yeah, yeah, .600 win percentage. Can’t even win the easiest division two years running.

I’m dropping Mack solely on my assessment of Pagano’s ability to make good decisions. That guy is gonna run Gore into the line until he drops dead.

I'm almost there with you.  Want to see a week without turbin

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2 hours ago, need2know said:

I'm almost there with you.  Want to see a week without turbin

Probably a good idea. He’s a dynamic talent so giving him Turbin’s targets would get him into open space.

Think Chuck will do it? See exhibit B in my prior post.

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34 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

Probably a good idea. He’s a dynamic talent so giving him Turbin’s targets would get him into open space.

Think Chuck will do it? See exhibit B in my prior post.

No.  But I've been wrong before

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4 minutes ago, Wrigley said:

I’m holding, it’s not like the ww is any better

This is really the key, how many lottery tickets are left on your WW.

My league gave me a choice of Darkwa (outbid), Collins (got), and Foreman (on a bye & still there.)

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Chudzinski: 

"Running game disappeared in second half because of all the three and outs. Too few opportunities to run."

"There were play calls for Mack, but some of them were run/pass options and Brissett opted to pass."

"Losing Turbin will give Marlon more opportunities, in two minute drill, etc. Good opportunity for him. We'll get him the ball."

Edited by One

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“A lot of Frank (Gore), a lot of (Marlon) Mack. Mack and Frank. Frank and Mack. Mac and cheese. Whatever you want to call it. We’re going with Frank and Mack. Frank and Mack attack,” said Pagano.

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4 hours ago, WiDDoW_MaKeR said:

“A lot of Frank (Gore), a lot of (Marlon) Mack. Mack and Frank. Frank and Mack. Mac and cheese. Whatever you want to call it. We’re going with Frank and Mack. Frank and Mack attack,” said Pagano.

LOL.   

The Jags can be run on, Chuck.   Give Mack the f'n ball!!! 

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37 minutes ago, need2know said:

Sounds like gore may get traded.  That would help

I have plenty of doubts about Mack being a full workload RB.  He doesn't strike me as a 20+ touches kind of guy, at least yet.  Lots of runs that he's bounced too often so I'd imagine there is still some sort of timeshare.  That being said I'd expect Mack to handle most of the opportunity going forward if Gore is traded away.  

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Marlon Mack is recovering from offseason shoulder surgery.

After the draft, GM Chris Ballard revealed Mack played his entire rookie season with a torn labrum. It's unclear when the surgery took place, but it would be disappointing if Mack wanted until recently to have the operation. Ballard said he expects Mack back for training camp. Mack is penciled in atop the Colts' running back depth chart, but Robert Turbin and rookies Nyheim Hines and Jordan Wilkins will push for snaps. Mack seems likely to miss all of OTAs and minicamp.

Source: Profootballtalk on NBC Sports 

May 2 - 1:09 PM

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I think Mack is in a very good position to become relevant for fantasy this year. The Colts have upgraded their offensive line and they didn't bring in very strong competition for the job in my opinion.

Unfortunate that he will miss minicamp as this would be a time where he coluld establish himself.

I think he is a buy in dynasty and I will be looking at Mack as a nice value in redraft.  

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No one posted it because he doesn't deserve to be associated with something so cool. Dude is all flash and no substance; amazingly inconsistent and allergic to running inside.

Edited by The Frankman
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24 minutes ago, The Frankman said:

No one posted it because he doesn't deserve to be associated with something so cool. Dude is all flash and no substance; amazingly inconsistent and allergic to running inside.

An opportunity now for Hines and Wilkins. It won't take coaches long to get sick of of a running back stalling, running sideways, backwards, and failing jukes only to gain a yard or worse. Only defensive coordinators like 2nd and 11.

Edited by cloppbeast

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On ‎5‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 2:44 PM, Bracie Smathers said:

I really wish the thread title would change.  Every time I glance at it, I get that terrible song in my head.

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