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WWYD : Sold Used vehicle that promptly broke down the next day (1 Viewer)

What would you do?

  • Offer to take the jeep back and hand over the check

    Votes: 3 2.5%

  • Offer to help offset the costs of the repairs

    Votes: 23 19.3%

  • Offer to help diagnose the issue and source parts, but he's on his own for cost of repairs

    Votes: 40 33.6%

  • It's sold As-Is, buddy.

    Votes: 53 44.5%
  • Total voters
    119
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Insoxicated
Cliff notes: 

Sold my Jeep yesterday. Spent a solid day going over everything with the guy. Disclosed any known issues. Went for an extended test drive. He paid with a cashiers check and drove it home (~2hrs). This morning about 20 mins up the road from his house the vehicle seized up.

He's not very tech savvy so descriptions of the problem have been spotty at best (first it was the front axle, now the rear that wouldn't turn when being loaded onto tow truck.... hasn't described exactly what happened, etc). He's (understandably) Pissed. 

He's now admitted he put it in 4WD in his GF's neighborhood and it made a strange sound and pulled to the right (normal behavior for a locked axle on asphalt... a huge NO NO)... but swears he didn't lock it. 

My best guess is the rear axle gearing/locker somehow blew up (possibly due to him engaging locker on asphalt or horsing around in 4WD on asphalt, and possibly a random stroke of bad luck). Repairs will run 500-2000 depending on what parts have blown up. 

How do you proceed? 
 

 
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I would go option 3, but if he is too much  of **** I would proceed to #4, especially since it sounds like he drove it like an idiot on the way home. 

 
You think he broke it by doing something wrong. In that case, tell him you'll give his money back if he repairs the damage.

Still got the Genesis?

 
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I'd refer him to a your mechanic and be nice about it, give him all the info you have etc.

Not sure if there are laws about this but I'm assuming he's SOL. 

If you were honest with him then there's nothing else to do.

 
VandyMan said:
You think he broke it by doing something wrong. In that case, tell him you'll give his money back if he repairs the damage.

Still got the Genesis?
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If I was forced to guess:
80% chance the failure was triggered by him doing something wrong / driving it wrong. 
20% chance it's just random stroke of bad luck

..Though hard to tell as I'm not sure what broke given his descriptions are spotty, but none of the potential points of failure he's talking about had any issues before. 

YEP: Still have the Genesis and still absolutely love it. Drove it 16 hours round trip to destin a couple weeks ago, and 6 hours round trip to nashville this past weekend. Still drives lke a dream. Great car. 
 

 
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If it's his fault, then I'm not sure I would help out. If something randomly broke, I would maybe split the cost of repairs. 

 
1 day, 1 week, 1 month, where do you draw the line?  at the start.  buyer is responsible to find a mechanic and do his due diligence.  you have no idea what he did and legally you win any fight.  enjoy the jeep and lose my number, Tia.

 
Predictably he's now saying he only put it in 4WD for a few feet and barely touched the gas. Of course. 

Guessing it's blown rear diff or Transfer case. What I'm THINKING about doing in either case: 

REAR DIFF: Cost to install basic gears ($500ish). Cost to rebuild completely including carrier, locker, etc: ($2000ish)
My Course of action: Offer to split the cost of gears and install ($250) to get the jeep running. If he wants the full monty back, that's on him. 

TRANSFER CASE: Cost to get standard used NP231 Case is $250-300ish.. +$200 for slip yoke eliminator kit. Install not included (he's done one before)
My Course of action: Split cost of case and Kit ($225-250ish) and he's on his own to install it. 

If it's something different or well outside the realm of this, who knows what I'll do. 


EDIT: When he was making out the check at the bank he asked if they could make it for (Round number) ($250 lower than ask) and I said no problem. If he pushes harder I can say with that I'm technically paying for the full re-gear. 

Being fair/reasonable here? 

 
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If you are 100% that there was no pre-existing condition for that area, Option 3 at the most.  No way I'm forking out money to help cover the cost.  If you sold it to him in good faith, don't worry about it.  He got his stupid tax, and knows what not to do now.  

If you thought that it could be an issue down the road, and are now feeling guilty, offer to split the repair with him.

 
Chemical X said:
1 day, 1 week, 1 month, where do you draw the line?  at the start.  buyer is responsible to find a mechanic and do his due diligence.  you have no idea what he did and legally you win any fight.  enjoy the jeep and lose my number, Tia.
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I voted option 4.  You have to do the bolded before buying a used car.

 
this is a jeep thing so just give him a couple of kc light covers and throw some mud on him everybody should be happy then take that to the bank brohans 

 
[icon] said:
Predictably he's now saying he only put it in 4WD for a few feet and barely touched the gas. Of course. 

Guessing it's blown rear diff or Transfer case. What I'm THINKING about doing in either case: 

REAR DIFF: Cost to install basic gears ($500ish). Cost to rebuild completely including carrier, locker, etc: ($2000ish)
My Course of action: Offer to split the cost of gears and install ($250) to get the jeep running. If he wants the full monty back, that's on him. 

TRANSFER CASE: Cost to get standard used NP231 Case is $250-300ish.. +$200 for slip yoke eliminator kit. Install not included (he's done one before)
My Course of action: Split cost of case and Kit ($225-250ish) and he's on his own to install it. 

If it's something different or well outside the realm of this, who knows what I'll do. 


EDIT: When he was making out the check at the bank he asked if they could make it for (Round number) ($250 lower than ask) and I said no problem. If he pushes harder I can say with that I'm technically paying for the full re-gear. 

Being fair/reasonable here? 
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This seems very reasonable to me.  Did you have the hardened axles on the rear (i think you are running the e-locker right)?  Unless you are pushing 37's it is pretty unlikely that they were previously damaged.  I have run a full detroit set-up (front and rear) with 35's and have never blown an axle (knock on wood).  something is fishy here. 

 
Spin said:
If you are 100% that there was no pre-existing condition for that area, Option 3 at the most.  No way I'm forking out money to help cover the cost.  If you sold it to him in good faith, don't worry about it.  He got his stupid tax, and knows what not to do now.  

If you thought that it could be an issue down the road, and are now feeling guilty, offer to split the repair with him.
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The driveline had shown zero issues prior to this incident. The ONLY thing I can think of is I had a slow rear diff leak (common) and it's possible the diff fluid was low which could have lead to gears heating up on the long drive home.... though odd that they were fine after the drive and early in the AM before seizing (IF it's the rear diff).

IF that's the case (opens diff to find it blown and very low fluid... I'll feel somewhat bad for that... though Its still on the buyer to check stuff before leaving. 

But there were certainly no preexisting signs of an issue. The only "issue" with the jeep was an occasional "low oil pressure" alert after a long highway drive that was a symptom of a failing oil pressure sending unit (engine is fine, gauge just occasionally dips to 0 when idling after engine is hot). That was disclosed/explained before purchase. Has nothing to do with this issue. 

 
sbonomo said:
This seems very reasonable to me.  Did you have the hardened axles on the rear (i think you are running the e-locker right)?  Unless you are pushing 37's it is pretty unlikely that they were previously damaged.  I have run a full detroit set-up (front and rear) with 35's and have never blown an axle (knock on wood).  something is fishy here. 
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Factory Dana 44 out of a rubicon with air locker (which I demonstrated to him prior to purchase) and aftermarket yukon 4.88 gears. Hardened AlloyUSA alloy axle shafts with lifetime warranty, though not sure they're the point of failure (rear axle is bound). My guess is it's ring and pinion and possibly taking out the full carrier and locker.... IF it's in the axle. 

 
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Baloney Sandwich said:
What was the purchase price?
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$12k... from $12250 ask. The extra $250 is pretty inconsequential and if it satisfies him it will help me keep a clear conscience. If he starts to play hardball with demands I think my generosity might suddenly start to dry up. 

 
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Bucky86 said:
Does he know where you live? I'd just send him your mechanics number and tell him good luck. Not your problem anymore.
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Yes he knows where I live, and is a police officer, though i am a couple hours outside his jurisdiction. 

 
Any kind of written communication regarding the condition of it being used and/or as is (emails, contact, text, etc)?

 
[icon] said:
The driveline had shown zero issues prior to this incident. The ONLY thing I can think of is I had a slow rear diff leak (common) and it's possible the diff fluid was low which could have lead to gears heating up on the long drive home.... though odd that they were fine after the drive and early in the AM before seizing (IF it's the rear diff).

IF that's the case (opens diff to find it blown and very low fluid... I'll feel somewhat bad for that... though Its still on the buyer to check stuff before leaving. 

But there were certainly no preexisting signs of an issue. The only "issue" with the jeep was an occasional "low oil pressure" alert after a long highway drive that was a symptom of a failing oil pressure sending unit (engine is fine, gauge just occasionally dips to 0 when idling after engine is hot). That was disclosed/explained before purchase. Has nothing to do with this issue. 
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Option 3 at the most then, and leaning towards option 4.  Everyone knows the risks of buying a used vehicle, and frankly, from what it seems you went well above and beyond what most people do.  The fact you're even considering replying to him is a testament, most people wouldn't even answer the phone if they called back.

 
[icon] said:
$12k... from $12250 ask. The extra $250 is pretty inconsequential and if it satisfies him it will help me keep a clear conscience. If he starts to play hardball with demands I think my generosity might suddenly start to dry up. 
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I can see both sides. The side that wants to believe #### happens and he's a guy on the bad end of something unfortunate, I get wanting to help him out and throw a few hundred his way to clear your conscience and be amicable and I think it's a really solid thing to do for someone.

On the other hand, are you opening the door for him to push for more? You might be careful about putting a dollar figure out before he accepts any generosity otherwise he might see it as a sign that you knew something was wrong previously with the vehicle and try to come after you.

 
[icon] said:
Signed bill of sale indicating as is. 
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Oh, yeah, you're totally ok to tell the guy to pound salt if you want (is the expression pound salt or pound sand).

But you're being a nice guy by helping him diagnose the problem.

 
Send him a .gif of Walter White telling Bogdan : "As is."

Or an .mp3 of Mike McD saying "Caveat Emptor, pal."

 
Jayded said:
I can see both sides. The side that wants to believe #### happens and he's a guy on the bad end of something unfortunate, I get wanting to help him out and throw a few hundred his way to clear your conscience and be amicable and I think it's a really solid thing to do for someone.

On the other hand, are you opening the door for him to push for more? You might be careful about putting a dollar figure out before he accepts any generosity otherwise he might see it as a sign that you knew something was wrong previously with the vehicle and try to come after you.
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Very valid point here. I've not offered to do anything financially yet. I've assured him there was no known issue before and this is out of the blue. I've exchanged about 30-4 texts with him all day actively trying to help diagnose the issue, and have offered to get my mechanic involved to help talk through diagnosis if needed. But your warning on the bolded is very good point and will be heeded. :thumbup:

 
avoiding injuries said:
I'm confused. Was it his way of negotiating the price at the bank by rounding, or had you not yet agreed on a price?

i would likely do something close to the 3rd option, but if he was scummy with the payment, I'd be more firm. 
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He was at the bank getting the check and just asked if we could make it 12-even. I said no problem (some negotiation is expected in these matters). He definitely wasn't shady about anything. Nice guy. Loaded his kids into the back for the test drive and they loved the jeep (as all kids do). 

 
[icon] said:
He was at the bank getting the check and just asked if we could make it 12-even. I said no problem (some negotiation is expected in these matters). He definitely wasn't shady about anything. Nice guy. Loaded his kids into the back for the test drive and they loved the jeep (as all kids do). 
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Yeah, I'm a jeep owner too (with kids). Know you're protected with the bill of sale and do whatever you think is right on the repairs. It sounds like he was negligent, and isn't being 100% forthcoming on what happened. 

 
did he seem like a die hard kind of cop where he will light a big old jet airliner on fire to get you or a nice alaska state trooper type guy where they are just sort of awesome to everyone all the time until you cross them and then bam they are kneeling on your head or what brohan take that to the bank

 
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SWC said:
did he seem like a die hard kind of cop where he will light a big old jet airliner on fire to get you or a nice alaska state trooper type guy where they are just sort of awesome to everyone all the time until you cross them and then bam they are kneeling on your head or what brohan take that to the bank
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He was a very nice guy. Absolute pleasure through the whole transaction. Though, when doing a little background search on the guy there was an officer with his name involved in a legal battle over excessive use of force... but it was an hour or so away from where he lives so likely not the same guy. :unsure:

 
If it were me I would help diagnose the problem even though you are under no obligation to do so.  Every time I have sold a used car this is what I worry about, even though I sell them as-is.

 
[icon] said:
He was a very nice guy. Absolute pleasure through the whole transaction. Though, when doing a little background search on the guy there was an officer with his name involved in a legal battle over excessive use of force... but it was an hour or so away from where he lives so likely not the same guy. :unsure:
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Start hiding... you

 
Unfortunately, this is probably a case the more you do the more he will expect and the more he will be pissed if you don't go all the way.  Kind of a no good deed goes unpunished deal. 

 
[icon] said:
Factory Dana 44 out of a rubicon with air locker (which I demonstrated to him prior to purchase) and aftermarket yukon 4.88 gears. Hardened AlloyUSA alloy axle shafts with lifetime warranty, though not sure they're the point of failure (rear axle is bound). My guess is it's ring and pinion and possibly taking out the full carrier and locker.... IF it's in the axle. 
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That would be odd to blow out the ring an pinion with small tires and no power (sorry jeep guys).  Hard turn on pavement with locker engaged on the gas could be just the recipe for this type of failure.  I am interested to see what it is.  Stock keep parts are cheap as you indicated above.  Offer half he does the work.  More than being fair. 

 
sbonomo said:
That would be odd to blow out the ring an pinion with small tires and no power (sorry jeep guys).  Hard turn on pavement with locker engaged on the gas could be just the recipe for this type of failure.  I am interested to see what it is.  Stock keep parts are cheap as you indicated above.  Offer half he does the work.  More than being fair. 
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Yeah I blew front axle shafts regularly though always while turning, causing a UJoint Failure due to shaft ears flexing. Once I went alloys they have been rock solid. Very curious as to what failed here. Zero chance the rear failed under normal use... That's why I kept asking him about the locker and using 4WD on asphalt... you're right in that being locked up on asphalt + throttle will greatly increase the odds of failure in any locked driveline. 

 
TheFanatic said:
If it's his fault, then I'm not sure I would help out. If something randomly broke, I would maybe split the cost of repairs. 
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This is the difference for me.  I think if it were purely random I'd at least split the cost.  

But, if this was his error, and especially if you warned him against it, I'd help him diagnose but wouldn't pay for anything. 

 
Zow said:
This is the difference for me.  I think if it were purely random I'd at least split the cost.  

But, if this was his error, and especially if you warned him against it, I'd help him diagnose but wouldn't pay for anything. 
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I hear ya. Problem is it's impossible to tell if he did something stupid, or if it just randomly broke... short of him admitting "yeah I did donuts on asphalt with lockers on" or something...which he would never admit to. 

 
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