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Slapdash

***Official PSF Moderation Thread***

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4 hours ago, Max Power said:

Nevermind. They caved. 

Rest assured, we think the smiley thing is dumb. But we have no intention of spending any time or energy arguing about it.

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Looks like the bathroom thread got the axe. That was good, productive discussion about how I was mentally ill, too. 

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8 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Looks like the bathroom thread got the axe. That was good, productive discussion about how I was mentally ill, too. 

Seemed unnecessary to axe it unless you requested it. I don’t think it was a great thread  but there was some room for learning in it. 

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4 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Seemed unnecessary to axe it unless you requested it. I don’t think it was a great thread  but there was some room for learning in it. 

Yep. No moderation actions or suggestions taken on my end. Total unwitting axe. I was just coming in to check on it because I was about to get into it in another thread, too, so it wasn't like I had a change of heart about really anything. :shrug:

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That thread was a good learning opportunity for some , shame on anyone reporting it. The feckless mod should've realized this

 

smh

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13 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Seemed unnecessary to axe it unless you requested it. I don’t think it was a great thread  but there was some room for learning in it. 

The room is still there.  The thread is unnecessary for anyone who wants to fill it with learning.   

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13 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

 but there was some room for learning in it.

I think a lot of learning and hopefully empathy could've come from that thread. If only we treated people the way we want to be treated

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3 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

The room is still there.  The thread is unnecessary for anyone who wants to fill it with learning.   

keep shutting down those with differing opinions doesn't help change minds

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4 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Trannsexy talk too uncomfortable for some peeps I guess. Too bad. 

You seem especially interested in this topic.

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3 minutes ago, Mister CIA said:

You seem especially interested in this topic.

This place could use some flair. 

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8 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

keep shutting down those with differing opinions doesn't help change minds

I didn’t close the thread. Nor report it. 

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23 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Yep. No moderation actions or suggestions taken on my end. Total unwitting axe. I was just coming in to check on it because I was about to get into it in another thread, too, so it wasn't like I had a change of heart about really anything. :shrug:

Have you checked to see if it was moved to the Test Forum?

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3 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

I didn’t close the thread. Nor report it. 

Right you were just part of the dogpile. 

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Just now, Mister CIA said:

Have you checked to see if it was moved to the Test Forum?

I'm personally a Beta tester, so I wouldn't know anything about Alphaville, really. 

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14 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

keep shutting down those with differing opinions doesn't help change minds

Every thread is him beating others down with post after post after post after post of his opinion and attacking those that disagree as he did to rockaction in that thread.  He's the new Tim.

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2 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I'm personally a Beta tester, so I wouldn't know anything about Alphaville, really. 

They're pretty big in Japan, believe me , I know

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1 minute ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

He's the new Tim

:lmao:

C'mon now , don't put that on him

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45 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Seemed unnecessary to axe it unless you requested it. I don’t think it was a great thread  but there was some room for learning in it. 

It was an uncomfortable thread. But it was real.

No sense in axing the entire thread, it's a lost opportunity to learn and grow, as a community. I'd also suggest that deleting the thread relieves all of us posting of having to face the words we chose. That, is a shame.

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14 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Every thread is him beating others down with post after post after post after post of his opinion and attacking those that disagree as he did to rockaction in that thread.  He's the new Tim.

That seems like an inaccurate description of the threads in this forum and on this board. 

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3 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

That seems like an inaccurate description of the threads in this forum and on this board. 

Fake views!

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I did find the immediate personalization of the opinions in the thread as worthy of medical diagnosis or suggestion of professional treatment to be such an utter turnoff that I'll likely continue my policy of not commenting anymore in the threads. I can take it, but all of that grief for it to be axed seems like a big ####### waste of my time and energy.

There was a lot of tim "If you say or believe x, you are y" going on in that.

I believe in separate bathrooms for separate sexes. That's it. Enough said. 

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14 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I did find the immediate personalization of the opinions in the thread as worthy of medical diagnosis or suggestion of professional treatment to be such an utter turnoff that I'll likely continue my policy of not commenting anymore in the threads. I can take it, but all of that grief for it to be axed seems like a big ####### waste of my time and energy.

There was a lot of tim "If you say or believe x, you are y" going on in that.

I believe in separate bathrooms for separate sexes. That's it. Enough said

Let's be fair and honest.

Your desire for separate bathrooms is not what was in question. Many recognized the ability to have a constructive discussion on that subject.

The repeated use of a derogatory slur, and your doubling down on using that painful slur, was the issue at hand.

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8 minutes ago, Koya said:

Let's be fair and honest.

Your desire for separate bathrooms is not what was in question. Many recognized the ability to have a constructive discussion on that subject.

The repeated use of a derogatory slur, and your doubling down on using that painful slur, was the issue at hand.

I’ve had a number of discussions on that exact subject on this board that have been productive and worthwhile.  Discussions where people disagree and part being reasonable. In fact I had a mini one with Ivan in that thread.  
 

That is primarily because it is seldom that people use a vulgar slur for a group of people on this board.  
 

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18 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

I’ve had a number of discussions on that exact subject on this board that have been productive and worthwhile.  Discussions where people disagree and part being reasonable. In fact I had a mini one with Ivan in that thread.  
 

That is primarily because it is seldom that people use a vulgar slur for a group of people on this board.  
 

That was only determined in 2010 to be an unacceptable use of the word by GLAAD and HuffPost. It was used by the groups themselves (how I learned it) and it has nowhere near the import nor tradition of slurs used towards gays or minorities. You really need to get over your own sermonizing because you can't even see the truth but for it. 

And I used it once and wouldn't be called forth to apologize for that specific one-time use because I don't play that game. You and Ivan had a one-off in that thread. Your disposition of "If you're x, you must be y" has gotten really tendentious. I won't miss any conversation henceforth. 

And @Koya, you need a shoulder to cry on. No one is more aggrieved. Oh, that your heart may be atwitter with joy of some sort! 

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32 minutes ago, Chicago Hooligan said:

Such a shame that brave transphobic voices are being silenced.

Whoa. You're the clever one, aren't you? I'd say it's another alias come to life again.   

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PSF Playbook:

(one voice)

"Well, how do you feel about this issue? I mean, let's have a discussion."

(one voice)

"Well, I feel X"

(five voices)

"You feel X?!"

(one voice)

"yes, X."

(ten voices)

"Really?

(one voice)

"X"

(thirty voices)

"Oh, you're a bigot then, let's all send out the signal so we can have a discussion about how you're a bigot and should apologize for feeling X!"

Such a waste of a forum.

Edited by rockaction
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Sucks it got axed.  The pile on was in full effect for sure but rock didn’t do anything to stem the tide.  Feel like after the drama settled some good discussion coulda come from it.  Oh well....

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3 minutes ago, rockaction said:

PSF Playbook:

(one voice)

"Well, how do you feel about this issue? I mean, let's have a discussion."

(one voice)

"Well, I feel X"

(five voices)

"You feel X?!"

(one voice)

"yes, X."

(ten voices)

"Really?

(one voice)

"X"

(thirty voices)

"Oh, you're a bigot then, let's all send out the signal so we can have a discussion about how you're a bigot and should apologize for feeling X!"

Such a waste of a forum.

While this does happen here, in all fairness I didn’t really feel the dog pile was due to your opinion on the bathrooms, it was about the language used. That’s what most seemed to be going after imo. The general bathroom part of the discussion would have been interesting and less dog pile I believe.  

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7 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

While this does happen here, in all fairness I didn’t really feel the dog pile was due to your opinion on the bathrooms, it was about the language used. That’s what most seemed to be going after imo. The general bathroom part of the discussion would have been interesting and less dog pile I believe.  

I used a borderline acceptable slang term -- one acceptable for most of my life --  once and got harangued about it the rest of the thread. I don't feel aggrieved. Just stating what happened. The gasket was blown over one use of one word that up until 2011, was endorsed and accepted by gay and transvestite luminaries until GLAADicals got a hold of the language. Fine. Fine by me. But I'm not apologizing on demand because a word has now changed in popular consciousness, regardless of origin or intent. 

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1 minute ago, rockaction said:

I used a borderline acceptable slang term -- one acceptable for most of my life --  once and got harangued about it the rest of the thread. I don't feel aggrieved. Just stating what happened. The gasket was blown over one use of one word that up until 2011, was endorsed and accepted by gay and transvestite luminaries until GLAADicals got a hold of the language. Fine. Fine by me. But I'm not apologizing on demand because a word has now changed in popular consciousness, regardless of origin or intent. 

Sure.  Not disagreeing or passing judgement, just commenting on why it went off the rails.  It wasn’t because you have an opinion on bathrooms.  

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1 minute ago, dkp993 said:

Sure.  Not disagreeing or passing judgement, just commenting on why it went off the rails.  It wasn’t because you have an opinion on bathrooms.  

Yeah, I know. I'm not looking to pick at you with anything about what happened. That's more for readers of the thread wondering why.

I agree with your assessment. That is why the thread jumped the rails. 

Edited by rockaction
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30 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I used a borderline acceptable slang term -- one acceptable for most of my life --  once and got harangued about it the rest of the thread. I don't feel aggrieved. Just stating what happened. The gasket was blown over one use of one word that up until 2011, was endorsed and accepted by gay and transvestite luminaries until GLAADicals got a hold of the language. Fine. Fine by me. But I'm not apologizing on demand because a word has now changed in popular consciousness, regardless of origin or intent. 

This was neither the first time you started a thread on this board about transgender bathroom issues nor the first time you and I discussed them in such a thread. It was, I believe, the first time you used this term in one of them.  
 

Your position on these issues has gotten more reactionary, not less, over time. Which is entirely your right. Your language in the discussion has gotten more vitriolic.  I don’t care that you rail against the “leftists” and how we “look like idiots” again and all of that. What I pointed out to you was that the word you used is a vulgar slur.  It is not the case that I have piled on and told you you’re a bad person for having your opinion.
 

Three and a half years ago you and I had a multi page discussion on the same topic.  And it was fine. 

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Just now, Henry Ford said:

This was neither the first time you started a thread on this board about transgender bathroom issues nor the first time you and I discussed them in such a thread. It was, I believe, the first time you used this term in one of them.  

Your position on these issues has gotten more reactionary, not less, over time. Which is entirely your right. Your language in the discussion has gotten more vitriolic.  I don’t care that you rail against the “leftists” and how we “look like idiots” again and all of that. What I pointed out to you was that the word you used is a vulgar slur.  It is not the case that I have piled on and told you you’re a bad person for having your opinion.
Three and a half years ago you and I had a multi page discussion on the same topic.  And it was fine. 

It was indeed the first time I've used the term because I was speaking colloquially. If I could go back and change the word, I would. Actually, I wrote an apology for using the word and almost took out a new thread apologizing to Workhouse and ilov80s, one of whom I especially consider for lack of a better term, a real friend, just internet-wise, and the other I consider a fine commenter, though we just don't nearly run in the same circles as much.

You surprised me today by being so quick to call out a word that is so borderline. (It was still being used in shows like Glee in 2011). I think maybe two things need to happen, one for my own self and soul:

  1. I should apologize for my offensive comment without excuse but also with an understanding that I'm not self-flagellating over it nor feel compelled to do so; rather I feel impelled to do so because of family and friend considerations
  2. You should back up a little bit in the future - I may be getting more vitriolic, your sociopolitical positions are hardening into personal ones

But the second is up to you. A suggestion would be that you something sends you sideways you can pull me aside with a PM or more of a protestation or matter of fact tone if you really want the word to stop or the point to get across. It's much easier to listen to that way. 

By the way, I am in complete disagreement that I refer to the left as "look[ing] like idiots." I'm not sure that's in my lexical dial-up these days, though it may have been typed a time or two. I seriously doubt it. I definitely refer to people as "leftists," even unchurched ones like joffer likes to be. 

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1 hour ago, Henry Ford said:

This was neither the first time you started a thread on this board about transgender bathroom issues nor the first time you and I discussed them in such a thread. It was, I believe, the first time you used this term in one of them.  
 

Your position on these issues has gotten more reactionary, not less, over time. Which is entirely your right. Your language in the discussion has gotten more vitriolic.  I don’t care that you rail against the “leftists” and how we “look like idiots” again and all of that. What I pointed out to you was that the word you used is a vulgar slur.  It is not the case that I have piled on and told you you’re a bad person for having your opinion.
 

Three and a half years ago you and I had a multi page discussion on the same topic.  And it was fine. 

What term?

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6 hours ago, Koya said:

It was an uncomfortable thread. But it was real.

No sense in axing the entire thread, it's a lost opportunity to learn and grow, as a community. I'd also suggest that deleting the thread relieves all of us posting of having to face the words we chose. That, is a shame.

I agree and I think I’m probably about as personally connected to the issue of transgender as anyone here. I think cutting off a conversation, even one that might have been offensive at times is a bad idea.

The most offensive part of the thread was him actually saying he would vote for Trump. No matter how one feels on the issue, I would hope they would vote for Rupaul before they voted for Trump.

Edited by Ilov80s

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8 hours ago, rockaction said:

That was only determined in 2010 to be an unacceptable use of the word by GLAAD and HuffPost. It was used by the groups themselves (how I learned it) and it has nowhere near the import nor tradition of slurs used towards gays or minorities. You really need to get over your own sermonizing because you can't even see the truth but for it. 

And I used it once and wouldn't be called forth to apologize for that specific one-time use because I don't play that game. You and Ivan had a one-off in that thread. Your disposition of "If you're x, you must be y" has gotten really tendentious. I won't miss any conversation henceforth. 

And @Koya, you need a shoulder to cry on. No one is more aggrieved. Oh, that your heart may be atwitter with joy of some sort! 

So you claim I need a shoulder to cry in because I won’t accept the use of epithets and hateful slurs? Um, ok. Give me that shoulder then?  
 

also, I never called you any name, but you can fill in your own blank:

If you use slurs and epithets that are widely regarded as offensive and derogatory, have that pointed out to you by numerous people, and you refuse to even apologize, then you are... 

again, your language and unwillingness has to accept responsibility for that language and apology says it all.  Your attacking me not because of the words I say, but because I point this out to you, give you a chance to apologize, then call you out when you refuse? Don’t see how that makes me the cry baby. Again, what it makes you, we can each surmise on our own. 

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Couldnt the mods have just edited the posts that people didnt like? Oh, whats that? Only a few posters get that treatment, oh ok. Carry on. 

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3 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

I agree and I think I’m probably about as personally connected to the issue of transgender as anyone here. I think cutting off a conversation, even one that might have been offensive at times is a bad idea.

The most offensive part of the thread was him actually saying he would vote for Trump. No matter how one feels on the issue, I would hope they would vote for Rupaul before they voted for Trump.

Let’s be honest, the most offensive thing was purposefully using a hateful slur then doubling down on it.

I have huge issues with Trump and those who support him: some because they agree with the venomous, hateful rhetoric and actions, some because they cover for anti American, anti democratic actions, some because they cheer the bullying that demeans the office and our country, and others because they claim to not support any of that, but because it helps them financially or because it makes the libs cry, all of that damage is somehow ok - those are the Trump supporters I find to have the weakest of wills, and with whom I struggle the most to be honest - because they know it’s wrong but selfishly go along at the expense of others and at the expense of our nations well being. 
 

that said, we can have discourse in Trumps policies and behavior and approach.  There are some merits to some aspects of his presidency.  There may be rationale for someone to vote for him even if I disagree.

There is NO place for hateful, derogatory slurs.  None. That’s clear.
 

Well, maybe it is accepted here in these boards, since any other slur of its kind would likely merit a good long TO... is it ok to slur the Trans community but not homosexuals, African Americans, Jews etc?

I guess that’s a bit disturbing too, that with all the over moderation in this board, including the inability to tactfully if harshly point out difficult truths, but truths nonetheless, someone can use the slur in question, others can literally make jokes using it, and apparently that’s ok by the rules of this board.

 

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9 hours ago, rockaction said:

PSF Playbook:

(one voice)

"Well, how do you feel about this issue? I mean, let's have a discussion."

(one voice)

"Well, I feel X"

(five voices)

"You feel X?!"

(one voice)

"yes, X."

(ten voices)

"Really?

(one voice)

"X"

(thirty voices)

"Oh, you're a bigot then, let's all send out the signal so we can have a discussion about how you're a bigot and should apologize for feeling X!"

Such a waste of a forum.

Stop with the “oh, look at me, the poor victim here”

 

We are NOT up in arms that you put forth a legal argument for separate bathrooms. Many of us disagree and wonder why it is such a concern or priority or why there would set you off, but no one is calling you out as being a bigot for that reason.

Using known slurs* and then refusing to apologize and doubling down on use of those slurs makes you whatever it is that someone who chooses to use epithets and slurs may be. Don’t even need to put a word there because your behavior speaks for itself

 

* even by your math, it’s been nearly a decade during which that term has been recognized as hateful and derogatory, and if somehow during that bear decade you’ve not learned this, many of us pointed it out to you in the thread, so you had the chance to apologize, yet you doubled down

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16 minutes ago, Koya said:

Stop with the “oh, look at me, the poor victim here”

 

We are NOT up in arms that you put forth a legal argument for separate bathrooms. Many of us disagree and wonder why it is such a concern or priority or why there would set you off, but no one is calling you out as being a bigot for that reason.

Using known slurs* and then refusing to apologize and doubling down on use of those slurs makes you whatever it is that someone who chooses to use epithets and slurs may be. Don’t even need to put a word there because your behavior speaks for itself

 

* even by your math, it’s been nearly a decade during which that term has been recognized as hateful and derogatory, and if somehow during that bear decade you’ve not learned this, many of us pointed it out to you in the thread, so you had the chance to apologize, yet you doubled down

Christ almighty the guy apologized , he made a separate thread for it. 

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13 minutes ago, Koya said:

Stop with the “oh, look at me, the poor victim here”

 

We are NOT up in arms that you put forth a legal argument for separate bathrooms. Many of us disagree and wonder why it is such a concern or priority or why there would set you off, but no one is calling you out as being a bigot for that reason.

Using known slurs* and then refusing to apologize and doubling down on use of those slurs makes you whatever it is that someone who chooses to use epithets and slurs may be. Don’t even need to put a word there because your behavior speaks for itself

 

* even by your math, it’s been nearly a decade during which that term has been recognized as hateful and derogatory, and if somehow during that bear decade you’ve not learned this, many of us pointed it out to you in the thread, so you had the chance to apologize, yet you doubled down

It is still a commonly used word.  I had no idea it was a 'known slur'.  It may be widely 'known' in some circles to be a slur, but it is not universally considered to be a slur.  I would imagine less than half the general population are aware of this.  

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9 hours ago, dkp993 said:

While this does happen here, in all fairness I didn’t really feel the dog pile was due to your opinion on the bathrooms, it was about the language used. That’s what most seemed to be going after imo. The general bathroom part of the discussion would have been interesting and less dog pile I believe.  

The language...and IMO with everything else going on, what may have been just a typical unisex bathroom being a reason to vote for Trump seemed silly.

Also, immediately after people took issue with the language others get defensive and just as abrasive, if not more, than those who were having a problem with it in the first place.

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7 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Christ almighty the guy apologized , he made a separate thread for it. 

Forget it. There's something wrong with this human being and has been for a while. I humored it and tried to encourage productive conversation, but it's not to be had. 

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2 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

:lol: 12 hours later.

What’s funny about this? Would you rather he dig in his heels??

:lol: 12 hours later

 

Honestly this place is a sewer at times

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36 minutes ago, rockaction said:
44 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Christ almighty the guy apologized , he made a separate thread for it. 

Forget it. There's something wrong with this human being and has been for a while. I humored it and tried to encourage productive conversation, but it's not to be had. 

I hope you are not saying your apology was just humoring people, because that was one of the more classy things I have seen on this board in some time.  It is fair to assume that if you thought you did something worth apologizing for that some will accept it and other's won't.  Let your apology stand on it's own merits.  I think it is fair to just direct anyone who wants to continue the discussion of your use of that term to that apology.  If it isn't good enough to someone there isn't anything else you can say, just moving forward avoid that term and act the way your wonderful (in my view) apology indicates you have evolve to.

Edited by toshiba
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