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***Official PSF Moderation Thread*** (2 Viewers)

Jesus this thread.

I'm a pretty liberal guy.  But the PC brigade drives me bat#### crazy.

I grew up in a rural, overwhelmingly white area. I used to use slurs in my youth, not because I was a bigot, but because they were accepted and I was trying to be funny or fit in and I was stupid. A good example would be calling things that you didn't like or thought were ridiculous "gay." "God I cant believe they're forcing us to read Tale of Two Cities. So gay."

I got older and left those areas and met more diverse people and adjusted my attitude about how I thought and spoke. Out of respect for others.

But when exactly did being offended become the worst thing that can happen to you? When did it become a mechanism with which to completely shut people out or down? Freedom of speech in this country means sometimes you're going to hear something offensive. I say things many times per day that someone would find offensive. Like swearing. I have a filthy mouth. Now I get that at certain times and places like work or church or the presence of young children are out of bounds. I willingly play by most polite societal rules.

But if I'm walking down the street or sitting at a bar talking to friends and I say something someone near me considers offensive and they get uppity over it? #### you. Go be offended. I don't care. You don't have the right to try to shut me up and it's not my responsibility to make sure you feel "safe."

Now, if someone were to calmly say to me, " I don't appreciate that" I'd likely apologize. Respect should be given, but frankly sometimes needs to be earned. 

@Henry Fordis an upstanding dude. So is @rockaction. Dog piling either of them is ridiculous and self-serving.  People make mistakes. Some of y'all need to unpack your panties a bit and get over yourselves. 

 
Weird that someone that has that view of themselves would take it upon themselves to spend so much time going around telling people how to behave.  How does worse Henry compare to Trump?  
To Trump? I don’t know on a micro level and have never had the macro authority he’s wielding, which is my concern with him. 
 

I certainly shouldn’t be President. 

 
Oh yeah, no doubt. Lyceum?

The whole Titus album was a really tortured metaphor about moving from Newark, NJ to Somerville, MA as some sort of civil war.

Uh, Patrick?
I am moving song to song,  taking pieces of heart at shows at Elysee Montemarte

 
With these ropes tied tight can we do no wrong
Now we grieve 'cause now it's gone
Things were good when we were young
We wouldn't be seen dead here in the day
I guess you're lucky that it's dark now
And if I like it then we'll stay
Impress the empress, take a shot now


 
You call yourself a free spirit, a "wild thing," and you're terrified somebody's gonna stick you in a cage.

Well baby, you're already in that cage. You built it yourself.

And it's not bounded in the west by Tulip, Texas, or in the east by Somali-land. It's wherever you go.

Because no matter where you run, you just end up running into yourself.

 
You call yourself a free spirit, a "wild thing," and you're terrified somebody's gonna stick you in a cage.

Well baby, you're already in that cage. You built it yourself.

And it's not bounded in the west by Tulip, Texas, or in the east by Somali-land. It's wherever you go.

Because no matter where you run, you just end up running into yourself.
Argy bargy with the cigarette holder already. Such a Charade.

 
At this point it’s fair to say everyone has made their point about everyone else.  Can we move on or do you guys complaining about dog piling want to dog pile some more?
If you have a more pressing moderation issue jump on in fella. Don’t hold back. 

 
Hey, fair game. I said a wretched thing five years ago I should be embarrassed about. I am.  It’s totally reasonable for anyone who wants to be upset about that. 
So we know the point that the term became politically incorrect was sometime within the last five years?

If someone used that term, before then or during the transition period, and then apologizes for their comments, we should accept it and move on?

Does this also apply to politicians, or are they held to a different standard?

 
Weird that someone that has that view of themselves would take it upon themselves to spend so much time going around telling people how to behave.  How does worse Henry compare to Trump?  
Did you ever hear the Biblical story of Paul? It's sort of what reformed sinners do.

 
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tonydead said:
Your problem is that you are hung up on your defined list of slurs, and then you put them all on equal footing.  If people don't agree with your list it isn't an insistence to use slurs, it's a disagreement on what is a slur. Like it or not one is much more acceptable in society than the other, I don't see anyone referring to Tranny as the T-word. 
It’s not “my list” -

If a term upsets/offends a number of people because they recognize it as a slur against their race, religion, orientation, identity etc, and that term is considered by many others to be a slur, what is so wrong with having the decency to not use that word?

Honestly, it doesn’t matter to “me” nor am I personally insulted by the term in question - but I know many others who are. I learned to understand the history of the term and it’s range of meanings. Why would I purposefully use a word when I know that many consider it a slur, and more importantly, that using such a term may be hurtful if not even harmful to segments of our population?

is it too much to ask that if we are told our words hurt, to use another term - whether we agree with the definition or not? Just seems the right thing to do.

:shrug:  
 

 
Gold sounds
You're always in my mind
Since before you were a child
And my love for you's entire
But it gets multiplied and not divided
Almost nothing is one-sided
Please accept I think you'll like it

We can grow
Through things we don't know


 
I'm parting the sea between brightness and me
Before I drown myself and everyone and everything

The water will shape the sides
And I'll walk with my head held high
And when it all comes crashing in
It will be worth it, if I'm still breathing

If actions speak louder than words
I'm the most deafening noise you've heard
I'll be that ringing in your ears
That will stick around for years


 
They call me Mr. Knowitall
I will not compromise.
I will not be told what to do.
I shall not step aside.


They call me Mr. Knowitall
I have no time to waste.
My mouth it spews pure intellect.
And I've such elegant taste.


 
Can you hear them?
They talk about us
Telling lies
Well, that's no surprise


Can you see them?
See right through them
They have no shield
No secrets to reveal


It doesn't matter what they say
In the jealous games people play
Our    t  i  t   s    are real


 
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How many times do I have to get stoned and post ridiculous song lyrics in here before this thread is totally derailed? I’m committed to it- no number is too high. 
Taking a break from building a deck but this happy little diddy has gone through my brain often the last couple of years:

I can't get to sleep
I think about the implications
Of diving in too deep
And possibly the complications


Especially at night
I worry over situations
I know will be alright
Perhaps it's just imagination


Day after day it reappears
Night after night my heartbeat shows the fear
Ghosts appear and fade away


Alone between the sheets
Only brings exasperation
It's time to walk the streets
Smell the desperation


At least there's pretty lights
And though there's little variation
It nullifies the night
From overkill


Day after day it reappears
Night after night my heartbeat shows the fear
Ghosts appear and fade away
Come back another day


I can't get to sleep
I think about the implications
Of diving in too deep
And possibly the complications


Especially at night
I worry over situations that
I know will be alright
It's just overkill


Day after day it reappears
Night after night my heartbeat shows the fear
Ghosts appear and fade away
Ghosts appear and fade away
Ghosts appear and fade away


 
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It’s not “my list” -

If a term upsets/offends a number of people because they recognize it as a slur against their race, religion, orientation, identity etc, and that term is considered by many others to be a slur, what is so wrong with having the decency to not use that word?

Honestly, it doesn’t matter to “me” nor am I personally insulted by the term in question - but I know many others who are. I learned to understand the history of the term and it’s range of meanings. Why would I purposefully use a word when I know that many consider it a slur, and more importantly, that using such a term may be hurtful if not even harmful to segments of our population?

is it too much to ask that if we are told our words hurt, to use another term - whether we agree with the definition or not? Just seems the right thing to do.

:shrug:  
 
I dunno, maybe ask all your friends on the left that have a history of using it on this forum. Not my job to run around trying to figure out the latest words put on the PC run amok list. 

 
I dunno, maybe ask all your friends on the left that have a history of using it on this forum. Not my job to run around trying to figure out the latest words put on the PC run amok list. 
Whether its this forum or otherwise, no one is asking you to run around and figure out anything.   Is it too much to ask that when something is pointed out as a slur then we have the decency to respectfully not use that term?

I mean, is it that difficult? And what does it say if someone learns that a term is harmful and hurtful, and still chooses, on purpose, to use that term? Forget about how long it's been accepted as an epithet. Forget who's "dictionary" or "PC guide" it may or may not appear - why would anyone choose to use a word that is hurtful and harmful to others, in those people's estimation and experience?

And for those foolish or naive enough to think it's just "words" - google the news. There's been a terrifying rash of murders and assaults on Trans people.  It's sickening and saddening- those words absolutely contribute to the atmosphere where these things occur. 

It's saddening that at the best, some just don't care. And worse, others want to seemingly provoke using the same terms we now know are just that - harmful, hurtful. When you recognize the context of other harassment and dangers, it's actually quite scary. We should be better than this, as a country, in my estimation (I do believe that while many things about the next generation are just the same as when the previous was the next, they have a far greater understanding and respect for the range of humanity that we represent, and accept far more simply for who they are).

FYI - we aren't talking about PC run amok, but generally accepted epithets and certainly terms that when used, make a good number of people feel less safe, certainly less welcome, and whatever someone personally believes about a word or term, why use something that does that?

 
KCitons said:
So we know the point that the term became politically incorrect was sometime within the last five years?

If someone used that term, before then or during the transition period, and then apologizes for their comments, we should accept it and move on?

Does this also apply to politicians, or are they held to a different standard?
No. We know I said something vulgar and offensive five years ago. 

 
No. We know I said something vulgar and offensive five years ago. 
Not sure I agree with you. Let me try another approach. 

It is now politically incorrect to make the OK sign with your hand. For 99% of my life it was perfectly fine, or at least it wasn't considered by society as being wrong. Is everyone that gave the OK sign 5 years ago a white supremacist?

Honestly, I think someone needs to publish a politically incorrect guide. Seems like things are changing every day. So, probably dont want to publish it in paperback, digital would be better.

 
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Not sure I agree with you. Let me try another approach. 

It is now politically incorrect to make the OK sign with your hand. For 99% of my life it was perfectly fine, or at least it wasn't considered by society as being wrong. Is everyone that gave the OK sign 5 years ago a white supremacist?

Honestly, I think someone needs to publish a politically incorrect guide. Seems like things are changing every day. So, probably dont want to publish it in paperback, digital would be better.
I believe the Anti Defamation League does this. If not them, someone does. 
 

Edit: and your question is why people say things like “uh, no, Trudeau, brown face wasn’t socially acceptable in the 2000s.”

 
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“Vulgar and offensive” often depends on the intent of the person saying or writing it, rather than the words itself. 

For example, a few minutes ago @boots11234 wrote of AOC, “I am glad she won’t have children.” I found that about as vulgar and offensive as anything I have read in this forum in years. Yet boots wasn’t politically incorrect, he didn’t use bad language. All he did was express a very cruel sentiment on a person he doesn’t know. And to me that was uglier than all the bad language. 

 
I believe the Anti Defamation League does this. If not them, someone does. 
 

Edit: and your question is why people say things like “uh, no, Trudeau, brown face wasn’t socially acceptable in the 2000s.”
I'm looking at it from a behavioural standpoint. Specifically positive, neutral, and negative reinforcement by society to ones behaviour. With th OK sign we moved from positive to negative fairly quickly. With blackface we moved from neutral to negative reinforcement. And terms identifying transgendered people, from I dont know what, to negative. I'd also throw in things like statues, th National Anthem, and the cross or ten commandments. The changes come fast and often without much warning. Partly because not all of us are black, or transgender, or Christian. We have been conditioned to act a certain way all our lives. We've been playing by the same rules, then someone changes the rulebook. A rulebook that doesn't exist and the only time youre made aware of it is when you break a new rule.

 
With apologies to both Rockaction and Henry, since they are both done with this, I have to comment because reading these threads has been bugging me. 

Despite the impressive and focused search efforts ( :rolleyes: ) for the “gotcha”, these inane charges of hypocrisy miss the point...totally.

It was never about someone using the slur...per se. It was about the doubling and tripling down once it was pointed out. It was the determined effort to not back down in the face of “political correctness”. I mean, I didn’t know the word in question was a slur and I’m pretty damned politically correct. I’ve never had reason to spend a lot of time thinking about it or interacting with that language.

As Koya has pointed out, why the resistance to being sensitive to language if it causes no tangible harm to those asked to be sensitive to It?

I’ve told the story before, I was humiliated in my 20’s when, working with emotionally disturbed teenagers, I was walking around saying “Mammy....ooohhh Mammy”. I thought it was funny because it sounded funny, had no idea where I had heard it. When my work partner-black guy and my best friend at the time-told me it was racist, I was horrified.

I didn’t rail against political correctness, I didn’t angrily insist I could say whatever TF I wanted. I profusely apologized and thought about it.

Its ok to be ignorant about the intent, symbolism,  power of words. I didn’t think it was ok to reject those concerns. Rock obviously reached the same conclusion. He’s a smart and decent individual imo. 

 
With apologies to both Rockaction and Henry, since they are both done with this, I have to comment because reading these threads has been bugging me. 

Despite the impressive and focused search efforts ( :rolleyes: ) for the “gotcha”, these inane charges of hypocrisy miss the point...totally.

It was never about someone using the slur...per se. It was about the doubling and tripling down once it was pointed out. It was the determined effort to not back down in the face of “political correctness”. I mean, I didn’t know the word in question was a slur and I’m pretty damned politically correct. I’ve never had reason to spend a lot of time thinking about it or interacting with that language.

As Koya has pointed out, why the resistance to being sensitive to language if it causes no tangible harm to those asked to be sensitive to It?

I’ve told the story before, I was humiliated in my 20’s when, working with emotionally disturbed teenagers, I was walking around saying “Mammy....ooohhh Mammy”. I thought it was funny because it sounded funny, had no idea where I had heard it. When my work partner-black guy and my best friend at the time-told me it was racist, I was horrified.

I didn’t rail against political correctness, I didn’t angrily insist I could say whatever TF I wanted. I profusely apologized and thought about it.

Its ok to be ignorant about the intent, symbolism,  power of words. I didn’t think it was ok to reject those concerns. Rock obviously reached the same conclusion. He’s a smart and decent individual imo. 
Given the sources/attitudes (who's apologized, owned and moved on vs who's continuing to troll after the apologies and ownership of their actions) this should be comical to you, not bugging you.  It's quite the show...sit back and enjoy it for what it is.

 
I'm looking at it from a behavioural standpoint. Specifically positive, neutral, and negative reinforcement by society to ones behaviour. With th OK sign we moved from positive to negative fairly quickly. With blackface we moved from neutral to negative reinforcement. And terms identifying transgendered people, from I dont know what, to negative. I'd also throw in things like statues, th National Anthem, and the cross or ten commandments. The changes come fast and often without much warning. Partly because not all of us are black, or transgender, or Christian. We have been conditioned to act a certain way all our lives. We've been playing by the same rules, then someone changes the rulebook. A rulebook that doesn't exist and the only time youre made aware of it is when you break a new rule.
I was talking with my brother once about the bedtime stories we were read by my father. Took us about thirty seconds to both mention our chagrin when we realized through conversation that not everyone was read Uncle Remus stories as a kid.  And what the Tar Baby story really was about. 

 

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