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adonis

The Republican party is in a death spiral...

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Things the Republican party knows how to do and is good at:
- Getting elected
- Gerrymandering
- Obstructing
- Propaganda 

Things the Republican party is not good at:
- Virtually everything else.

I'm sorry, but it has to be said.  The Grand Old Party isn't grand anymore, it's geriatric and senile.

We need a Grand New Party, one that actually holds intellectually defensible conservative positions, that's not only moral and ethical, but makes sound logical sense and is based in facts.

So come on GOP, become a GNP and start truly making America great again.  Try working across the aisle.  Try basing policies on facts.  Try touting experts rather than tearing them down.  Embrace science as the future instead of trashing it when it conflicts with your donor's priorities.  Embrace the free press.  Reject attempts to peddle petty patriotism on cable news and talk radio and embrace the real thing.  Accept evolution, accept climate change, and make reasonable policies based on scientific findings.  Invest in research and development, invest in jobs of the future.  NONE of this has to be a liberal or democratic view.  There's nothing inherently conservative about these positions, and in fact many of them run country to true conservatism.

I know you have it in you.

Edited by adonis
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at the risk of having jim11 like one of my posts, it still has to be said:

you've got to be ####ing kidding.

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Maybe at some point. Given their current politics I wouldn't mind at all. 

But right now they have the Presidency, the Senate, the House, and a majority of the governorships and state legislatures. Death spiral? Not now for sure. 

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No, the Republican Party is doing its best to put our government into a death spiral.  It's doing just fine.

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3 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Maybe at some point. Given their current politics I wouldn't mind at all. 

But right now they have the Presidency, the Senate, the House, and a majority of the governorships and state legislatures. Death spiral? Not now for sure. 

:goodposting:

Hard to say they are in a death spiral when they win all the elections.

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5 minutes ago, joffer said:

at the risk of having jim11 like one of my posts, it still has to be said:

you've got to be ####ing kidding.

GWB and Trump were their two best picks, out of the entire GOP, in each election.  Let that sink in for you.  Those folks were lifted up as the best people in the country to run things largely by Republicans.

Their positions are anachronistic.  

- You have Trump today announcing that transgender people can no longer serve in the military.  What problem is this fixing?  

- You have today Republicans in the senate trying their damndest to rewrite our nations healthcare policy in a matter of a few hours with no real input from the other side.

- You have a party full of leaders who won't recognize evolution or climate change.

- It's a party that seems OK with their leader calling the press the enemy of the people

- A party where a majority of folks think colleges have a negative impact on our country.

- A party that has rolled over for Putin and Russia, where patriotism only runs lapel flag pin deep.

I can go on and on here...what the hell, man?  

We need legit folks on the right...but today's republican party?  They aren't that...a party built on bankrupt ideas, and their check is bouncing for the world to see.  

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4 minutes ago, whoknew said:
7 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Maybe at some point. Given their current politics I wouldn't mind at all. 

But right now they have the Presidency, the Senate, the House, and a majority of the governorships and state legislatures. Death spiral? Not now for sure. 

:goodposting:

Hard to say they are in a death spiral when they win all the elections.

The republicans have been incompetent for some years, but now, through the same process that happens in business, they've risen to their highest level of incompetence.

They own EVERYTHING...and good lord is it a mess.  

So yeah, they've been getting promotions year after year, and they're in the C-suite now, having deposed other somewhat competent folks...but the ship is theirs to steer now, using their own compass and charts.  We seem to be banging into rock after rock, and before long one would hope that enough folks will see what's going on and get these buffoons out of power.

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11 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Maybe at some point. Given their current politics I wouldn't mind at all. 

But right now they have the Presidency, the Senate, the House, and a majority of the governorships and state legislatures. Death spiral? Not now for sure. 

Well they're showing everyone what happens when they get to drive the car. 

Hopefully people are paying attention. 

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8 minutes ago, adonis said:

GWB and Trump were their two best picks, out of the entire GOP, in each election.  Let that sink in for you.  Those folks were lifted up as the best people in the country to run things largely by Republicans.

Their positions are anachronistic.  

- You have Trump today announcing that transgender people can no longer serve in the military.  What problem is this fixing?  

- You have today Republicans in the senate trying their damndest to rewrite our nations healthcare policy in a matter of a few hours with no real input from the other side.

- You have a party full of leaders who won't recognize evolution or climate change.

- It's a party that seems OK with their leader calling the press the enemy of the people

- A party where a majority of folks think colleges have a negative impact on our country.

- A party that has rolled over for Putin and Russia, where patriotism only runs lapel flag pin deep.

I can go on and on here...what the hell, man?  

We need legit folks on the right...but today's republican party?  They aren't that...a party built on bankrupt ideas, and their check is bouncing for the world to see.  

To be fair, you have people in this country that mirror their opinions. Maybe the people need to change, the rest will take care of itself.

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13 minutes ago, KCitons said:

We need to get rid of all party's.

Except the one's with an open bar. 

just curious:  why do you sprinkle your sentences with unnecessary apostrophes?

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1 minute ago, -fish- said:

just curious:  why do you sprinkle your sentences with unnecessary apostrophes?

Poor education and bad habits. 

Actually, It's probably because of autocorrect on my phone.

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24 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Maybe at some point. Given their current politics I wouldn't mind at all. 

But right now they have the Presidency, the Senate, the House, and a majority of the governorships and state legislatures. Death spiral? Not now for sure. 

I think he meant intellectually. 

 

Edited by zoonation
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22 minutes ago, whoknew said:

:goodposting:

Hard to say they are in a death spiral when they win all the elections.

Has to be said:   America is rotting from the inside out.  Literally.  

Edited by zoonation
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Their strategy in 2010 was effing brilliant

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1 hour ago, adonis said:

Things the Republican party knows how to do and is good at:
- Getting elected
- Gerrymandering
- Obstructing
- Propaganda 

Things the Republican party is not good at:
- Virtually everything else.

I'm sorry, but it has to be said.  The Grand Old Party isn't grand anymore, it's geriatric and senile.

We need a Grand New Party, one that actually holds intellectually defensible conservative positions, that's not only moral and ethical, but makes sound logical sense and is based in facts.

So come on GOP, become a GNP and start truly making America great again.  Try working across the aisle.  Try basing policies on facts.  Try touting experts rather than tearing them down.  Embrace science as the future instead of trashing it when it conflicts with your donor's priorities.  Embrace the free press.  Reject attempts to peddle petty patriotism on cable news and talk radio and embrace the real thing.  Accept evolution, accept climate change, and make reasonable policies based on scientific findings.  Invest in research and development, invest in jobs of the future.  NONE of this has to be a liberal or democratic view.  There's nothing inherently conservative about these positions, and in fact many of them run country to true conservatism.

I know you have it in you.

Why yes , Republicans bad 

Democrats , good

 

if only we had 1 party rule , democrats of course, everything would be hunky dory 

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Seems to me you don't know what a death spiral is.  Obamacare would be a death spiral.  Completely rebuking Obama's legacy and defeating the most powerful and corrupt person in the Democratic party and winning both houses by running repulsive load mouth not capable of managing a FF team (referring to Trump) would be called winning.

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1 hour ago, BassNBrew said:

Seems to me you don't know what a death spiral is.  Obamacare would be a death spiral.  Completely rebuking Obama's legacy and defeating the most powerful and corrupt person in the Democratic party and winning both houses by running repulsive load mouth not capable of managing a FF team (referring to Trump) would be called winning.

It’s just the rapid ascent before the object plummets back to ground.  In this case, the GOP has flown too close to the sun and their intellectual wings are melting under the scrutiny of light.

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3 minutes ago, adonis said:

It’s just the rapid ascent before the object plummets back to ground.  In this case, the GOP has flown too close to the sun and their intellectual wings are melting under the scrutiny of light.

Seems like you guys said the same thing in 2006 too when your side actually won something.  I can only guess in a few years or whenever when the pendulum swings the other way (it always does - back and forth - back and forth) you'll declare the same thing.

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2 hours ago, MaxThreshold said:
2 hours ago, adonis said:

It’s just the rapid ascent before the object plummets back to ground.  In this case, the GOP has flown too close to the sun and their intellectual wings are melting under the scrutiny of light.

Seems like you guys said the same thing in 2006 too when your side actually won something.  I can only guess in a few years or whenever when the pendulum swings the other way (it always does - back and forth - back and forth) you'll declare the same thing.

I'm not a democrat although I'm more left of center, so the only side I subscribe to is the one that listens to reason, scientific evidence, and experts.  

Sadly, at least right now, that excludes nearly the entire Republican party.

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Are there any actuaries in the house? I wonder how many T-Rump voters will die before 2018 mid-terms; before 2020 election.

Got to believe this worm is due for a turn, though the Republicans still have an ace up their sleeve, namely Democrat strategists.

 

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12 minutes ago, adonis said:

I'm not a democrat although I'm more left of center, so the only side I subscribe to is the one that listens to reason, scientific evidence, and experts.  

Sadly, at least right now, that excludes nearly the entire Republican party.

Only most of the elected ones. There actually are a bunch of pretty decent Republicans, they just don't run/win. They're fun on Twitter though. 

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13 minutes ago, BigSteelThrill said:

Reality does not matter.

Polls don't matter either.  Nor science.  Nor mainstream reporting. Nor intelligence agency reports.

Only what folks want to believe, is true.  If you believe it in your heart, that makes it true, and surely you can find someone on Breitbart or Fox News or the talking radio to reinforce your views.

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26 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:
40 minutes ago, adonis said:

I'm not a democrat although I'm more left of center, so the only side I subscribe to is the one that listens to reason, scientific evidence, and experts.  

Sadly, at least right now, that excludes nearly the entire Republican party.

Only most of the elected ones. There actually are a bunch of pretty decent Republicans, they just don't run/win. They're fun on Twitter though. 

Yeah, I have a good number of friends/acquaintances who are Republicans and they're all great people.  However, I wouldn't enjoy a conversation with them about the value of colleges, or the MSM, or climate change, or evolution, or a host of other things that seem to be indicators of how far afield the party has gone.

Oddly enough, I'm left of center only because the right has gone so far right.  I'm socially left of center but fiscally and in foreign policy/militarily right of center.  I shouldn't be this far from the republican base.

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1 hour ago, adonis said:

I'm not a democrat although I'm more left of center, so the only side I subscribe to is the one that listens to reason, scientific evidence, and experts.  

Sadly, at least right now, that excludes nearly the entire Republican party.

:shock: Man if one of the most pro D guys on this entire board can't even admit to being an actual D, well that says a lot about the party. 

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Just now, waterworld said:
1 hour ago, adonis said:

I'm not a democrat although I'm more left of center, so the only side I subscribe to is the one that listens to reason, scientific evidence, and experts.  

Sadly, at least right now, that excludes nearly the entire Republican party.

:shock: Man if one of the most pro D guys on this entire board can't even admit to being an actual D, well that says a lot about the party. 

Pro-D?  I've only ever carried water for one democrat and that was Obama...because I agreed with him on policies and vision.  

In general, I think democrats are more sane than republicans on many issues, but that doesn't mean I don't hold some typical republican views as well.  I could easily vote Republican for the right candidate, if they move pretty close to center and adopt a pro-science policy...it's not really that hard.  Pro-science, pro-technology, forward thinking, non-neocon, invest in fundamental research, overhaul how we handle vetting of refugees...etc.

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2 hours ago, adonis said:

I'm not a democrat although I'm more left of center, so the only side I subscribe to is the one that listens to reason, scientific evidence, and experts.  

Sadly, at least right now, that excludes nearly the entire Republican party.

The only science you seem to understand is the science of over-generalization and gross exaggeration.  But continue to pat yourself on the back as smarter than everyone else.  Must be one of those with the IQ of 176.

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15 minutes ago, jon_mx said:
2 hours ago, adonis said:

I'm not a democrat although I'm more left of center, so the only side I subscribe to is the one that listens to reason, scientific evidence, and experts.  

Sadly, at least right now, that excludes nearly the entire Republican party.

The only science you seem to understand is the science of over-generalization and gross exaggeration.  But continue to pat yourself on the back as smarter than everyone else.  Must be one of those with the IQ of 176.

I'm not familiar with the IQ reference.

But I'm referring to polling that shows that the majority of republicans think that colleges are bad for america.  Republican leaders for years have dismissed climate change science findings.  A significant portion of republicans, including the president, dismiss the findings of our intelligence community experts on russian hacking of the election.  Several major GOP candidates for president said they don't believe in evolution.

I know that not all republicans think this way.  It's not 100%, but it's a significant number of them, and a significant number of leaders in the GOP.  There's a lack of respect for science and for experts in the GOP right now that I find incredibly disconcerting.  

Edited by adonis

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Intellectualism is in a death spiral within the party. What the party used to stand for is in a death spiral. 

Hard to argue the party itself is. It's just mutating into something else. 

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8 hours ago, adonis said:

Things the Republican party knows how to do and is good at:
- Getting elected
- Gerrymandering
- Obstructing
- Propaganda 

Things the Republican party is not good at:
- Virtually everything else.

I'm sorry, but it has to be said.  The Grand Old Party isn't grand anymore, it's geriatric and senile.

We need a Grand New Party, one that actually holds intellectually defensible conservative positions, that's not only moral and ethical, but makes sound logical sense and is based in facts.

So come on GOP, become a GNP and start truly making America great again.  Try working across the aisle.  Try basing policies on facts.  Try touting experts rather than tearing them down.  Embrace science as the future instead of trashing it when it conflicts with your donor's priorities.  Embrace the free press.  Reject attempts to peddle petty patriotism on cable news and talk radio and embrace the real thing.  Accept evolution, accept climate change, and make reasonable policies based on scientific findings.  Invest in research and development, invest in jobs of the future.  NONE of this has to be a liberal or democratic view.  There's nothing inherently conservative about these positions, and in fact many of them run country to true conservatism.

I know you have it in you.

Be careful, Joe is watching. 

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One thing we need to remember there were significant Republicans who did not vote for Trump (or Hillary). Gov. Kasich, Sen Graham, Sen McCain, Sen Collins, Jeb Bush to name a few. At this time last year I considered myself a Republican and but did not vote for Clinton or Trump either. Because of this support for Trump by the majority of Republicans I now see myself as an independent but could not see myself supporting any Democrat. My only hope is that some of these anti Trump folks can revive the GOP and take us back to the honorable days of the likes of Bob Dole and Dwight Eisenhower. 

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31 minutes ago, lazyike said:

One thing we need to remember there were significant Republicans who did not vote for Trump (or Hillary). Gov. Kasich, Sen Graham, Sen McCain, Sen Collins, Jeb Bush to name a few. At this time last year I considered myself a Republican and but did not vote for Clinton or Trump either. Because of this support for Trump by the majority of Republicans I now see myself as an independent but could not see myself supporting any Democrat. My only hope is that some of these anti Trump folks can revive the GOP and take us back to the honorable days of the likes of Bob Dole and Dwight Eisenhower. 

I swear if enough of you disillusioned conservative Republican folks will join up with me I will actually register a party and start working towards a fiscally conservative platform while still basing everything on individual rights and dignity in the Civil Rights realm. Someone else will have to cross the goal line because I won't live to see it be viable but I'll totally start it. 

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5 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

I swear if enough of you disillusioned conservative Republican folks will join up with me I will actually register a party and start working towards a fiscally conservative platform while still basing everything on individual rights and dignity in the Civil Rights realm. Someone else will have to cross the goal line because I won't live to see it be viable but I'll totally start it. 

In. But I want fiat control over the party tax platform.

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5 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

I swear if enough of you disillusioned conservative Republican folks will join up with me I will actually register a party and start working towards a fiscally conservative platform while still basing everything on individual rights and dignity in the Civil Rights realm. Someone else will have to cross the goal line because I won't live to see it be viable but I'll totally start it. 

For starters any politician I vote for or party I belong to must be pro life.

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For all the talk about what the right needs to do (and there is plenty) I find it somewhat amusing that the dems don't seem to think they have changed and they are the same old same old...here is a great article from the NY Times about their shift...it is from 2015 and written by a Republican but he sums it up nicely...

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/27/opinion/have-democrats-pulled-too-far-left.html

Here is another from The Daily Beast...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/democrats-answer-is-always-the-same-move-more-left

This is by no means a defense of The GOP...they are inept...that being said I really don't think many dems have any self-awareness as to how their party is perceived (or maybe they do and don't care) and instead of taking a good look they throw darts at their opponents or how this country runs its elections...this will not lead to success which should be very apparent after losing to a candidate like Trump and the clown show that is the GOP...

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1 hour ago, lazyike said:

For starters any politician I vote for or party I belong to must be pro life.

Anti-abortion, you mean?

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21 minutes ago, Boston said:

For all the talk about what the right needs to do (and there is plenty) I find it somewhat amusing that the dems don't seem to think they have changed and they are the same old same old...here is a great article from the NY Times about their shift...it is from 2015 and written by a Republican but he sums it up nicely...

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/27/opinion/have-democrats-pulled-too-far-left.html

Here is another from The Daily Beast...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/democrats-answer-is-always-the-same-move-more-left

This is by no means a defense of The GOP...they are inept...that being said I really don't think many dems have any self-awareness as to how their party is perceived (or maybe they do and don't care) and instead of taking a good look they throw darts at their opponents or how this country runs its elections...this will not lead to success which should be very apparent after losing to a candidate like Trump and the clown show that is the GOP...

My preference for a candidate would be a center-left candidate.  

Bernie was a bit much for me politically, although I did agree that he correctly identified some of our major issues.  Ironically enough, Donald Trump also identified some major issues.

It's not the identification of issues that's hard, it's the solutions and what you base those solutions on.  Is it good quality evidence from experts? Or is it propaganda meant to elicit responses from your base, regardless of how true it is. 

I favor universal coverage for healthcare but also strong immigration laws.  I support gun ownership but also regulations.  I'm pro-life personally but pro-choice in government.  

The thing is that folks like Trump and too many of the republican leaders today base their plans on fiction.  They'll discount the CBO when it doesn't tell them what they want to hear and propose using another scorer.  Trump will say no cuts to medicare or medicaid and that the healthcare plan will be great for everyone, and he pays no price for this blatant lie.  Republicans blame democrats for "cramming down out throats" a healthcare bill that was in process for a year, with many open hearings, debates, presidential Q/A, etc...yet they draft their plans in secret and try to force through a vote.  They refused to let democrats appoint a SC justice in the last year of obama's term, with basically no reason other than "because I can".

The democrats are no angels...I'm not a fan of many of them to be honest...but they're not the ones calling the shots now.  The republicans have full control, and we see the lack of depth of their policies...the lack of fact-based policies...the lack of integrity to stand up to a clear problem in Trump.  

The GOP has become populated by a lot of blowhards who know how to complain and rail about problems in the government, but have no real idea on how to fix things that make lives better for their constituents.  THIS is what I'm referring to when I say they're in a death spiral.  For a decade or more they've been the party of complaint...the party saying we have a better plan.  Now, they have Trump at the helm, all branches of government, and it's incredibly telling that they have no real plans.  

They've peddled talking points, and the country is finding that it's incredibly difficult to convert talking points into policy that makes folks lives better.  We're watching the collapse of their talking points...on almost every issue.  Patriotism? Ethics? Morality? Healthcare? Presidential accountability?  Leaders being in bed with Wall Street?  Nepotism?  National Security? Support of Intelligence Community?  Respect of office of presidency?  Family values?  Integrity?

With Trump, the republican congressmen, and the rest of the GOP barely uttering a peep every time Trump tramples longheld GOP positions, you see the daily disgracing of the GOP.  It's like watching a famous preacher descend into a life of drugs, sex, and turning tricks for money...and then pretending like he didn't fall from grace.  All he has to do is get clean and he'll have his reputation back!  No, sorry.  Like the GOP, this period in history should forever be a tarnish on the reputation of the grand old party.

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6 minutes ago, lazyike said:

Yea.  that is what the term pro life means

Yeah, I know what it means in the political lexicon. I disagree that it should apply to a party that is red hot to take away health insurance from millions of people, likely resulting in an early death for many of them. There's nothing pro life about that.

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2 hours ago, honky kong said:

Yeah, I know what it means in the political lexicon. I disagree that it should apply to a party that is red hot to take away health insurance from millions of people, likely resulting in an early death for many of them. There's nothing pro life about that.

That is part of the reason why the 6-7 GOP senators are against it, That is the wing of the Republican party I support i.e. Susan Collins

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6 hours ago, lazyike said:

Yea.  that is what the term pro life means

If an abortion is performed to save the life of the mother wouldn't that be pro life?

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1 hour ago, NREC34 said:

If an abortion is performed to save the life of the mother wouldn't that be pro life?

Personally I don't have an issue in that extremely rare case. What are we talking 1 in a million births?

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Just now, lazyike said:

Personally I don't have an issue in that extremely rare case. What are we talking 1 in a million births?

I have no idea on the numbers...

I don't agree with it being used as birth control either. 

I think there's middle ground on the issue personally. Most people are dug in on a side though. 

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