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NE RB Competition 2017 (1 Viewer)

az_prof

az_prof

Footballguy
I have a feeling that this is going to be a situation that bears watching over the pre-season.  Most people assumed Gillislee would walk into the Blount position this season, or possibly Burkhead.  Starting this thread so those of us who are interested in the competition can share information and insights.

It is interesting that the first unofficial depth chart to start pre-season has Dion Lewis and James White as the starters.

Is that just to send a message to the new guys that they aren't being given anything and have to take the jobs away from the team's vets? Both Lewis and White can play ball.

http://www.patriots.com/schedule-and-stats/depth-chart 

 
The real depth chart is more like Gillislee (out this past week with a hamstring injury), Burkhead (all purpose can do all things fairly well), White (most receiving opportunities), and then Lewis (limited snaps and touches, who is now their kick returner).

BB mentioned the other day he would prefer the guys out there to be able to do different things so defenses would not know what was coming. Last year, it was pretty much predictable . . . a running play if Blount was in the game or a passing play with White in the game. As far as linebackers were concerned, they didn't have to worry about covering Blount and they didn't have to be concerned very much with White running the ball.

 
Debating between Burkhead and Elijah McGuire in a dynasty league. Knowing BB, any NE running back scares me

 
Stay away and try not to guess.  Thank me later.  But seriously Burkhead is the one to own that'll produce the most consistently.  

 
Zyphros said:
Stay away and try not to guess.  Thank me later.  But seriously Burkhead is the one to own that'll produce the most consistently.  
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I wouldn't necessarily agree with this but I do think he will probably be the best value as you will most likely be able to get him the latest.   I think White will be the most consistent since he seems to have a defined role and should be able to know when he will be utilized based on probably game script (throwing - tighter game or behind).  

 
they will be the best running football team in the NFL

they will not have a good week to week fantasy start among them

week 1 Burhead

week 2 JWhite

week 3 Gillislee

week 4 Lewis

You will never know if the game will be pass catching RB's, pound it hard with big guys, run it around with the fast one ....  its going to be beautiful to watch the Patriots

But I will not draft high any Pat's RB's

 
My gut is telling me Burkhead and Lewis are the two guys to own.  

I hate Gillislee at his ADP and his dynasty owners seem to also overvalue him.  White was the Super Bowl stud, but I still have stuck in mind how truly awful he has looked at times in the past.  Lewis is, IMO, the only RB that actually is special in any way.  Unfortunately, he can only be special 5 games out of 30.

 
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Lewis looked great . . . for 6 games . . . two surgeries and two seasons ago. In limited use last year, his ypc dipped from 4.8 to 4.0 (including the playoffs) and he actually did WORSE the longer the season went. Similarly, his ypr dropped from 10.8 to 5.7. He didn't look at all the same.

From everything I have heard / seen / read, Lewis is slated to only play about 15 snaps a game and the plan is for him to be their kick returner. The intent is for him to see limit use to keep him on the field, as his injury history is well documented.

I would not draft Lewis based on how he looked in 2015. NE went out and paid way more than they ever do for Gillislee, Burkhead, and a multi-year extension for White. The Patriots always have guys get hurt, but IMO it will take a couple of the other backs to go down before Lewis would be set up to get a lot of touches. H strikes me as the guy they will use to give the other backs a breather or a guy they will use as a receiving threat when they find an utter mismatch in coverage that they can exploit.

 
Anarchy99 said:
The real depth chart is more like Gillislee (out this past week with a hamstring injury), Burkhead (all purpose can do all things fairly well), White (most receiving opportunities), and then Lewis (limited snaps and touches, who is now their kick returner).

BB mentioned the other day he would prefer the guys out there to be able to do different things so defenses would not know what was coming. Last year, it was pretty much predictable . . . a running play if Blount was in the game or a passing play with White in the game. As far as linebackers were concerned, they didn't have to worry about covering Blount and they didn't have to be concerned very much with White running the ball.
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I think either Gil or Burkhead could be valuable but your 2nd paragraph is what makes me think Dion Lewis.  I know, everyone says "if he can be healthy". True, but kinda true for any RB.  2015 WAS a long time ago but as much as some will say "you can't think of Lewis because it was a long time ago", it's also true that some people will dismiss him because "it was a long time ago" (in terms of fantasy owners' brains). But when we remember what he was capable of, he was the definition of your 2nd paragraph. He surprisingly could run inside better than you would think. He could pass protect well-enough and , of course, he was electric as a receiver. And what does Tom Brady do a lot of these days? Short, very quick throws. 

I mean, I don't think the Patriots are building their offensive philosophy around a bunch of scat backs but I don't hesitate to think as attrition sets in and the season gets into weeks 10+, I don't doubt for a second the Patriots would be willing to pepper teams ad naseum with their little RBs. 

I guess what I take from it is, as a FF owner, you probably have them all or none because it will come to that at some point.

 
As a fun fact, not only does James White make more than all of these guys, I believe the contract that he signed this offseason was the most lucrative in Patriots' history for a RB.

Obviously there will be many headaches, but my gut says that overall White and Gillislee will lead the way.  Burkhead I don't think they would have signed had they known they were going to be able to get Gillislee.  White is only still around because his contract is so cheap.

 
All the "stay away" people should reconsider. The Pats rush for more TDs than every team, pretty much every year.

Blount was a monster last year, and a bargain.

If you think the Pats are going to be ahead early, middle and/or late in many (all?) their games this season then you should be falling all over yourself trying to get ahold of their closer.

This year there are two options for the closer job, both should be rostered in every league. They may burn you, but so may any other player. Would you rather be burned by the next Todd Gurley 2016 (1st round) or be burned by your 5th round (Gillislee) or later (Burkhead) pick?

 
This team produces a RB1 every game but sometimes hard to figure which one beforehand. But if you could get all or 3 of them in a bb league, you'd be set. 

 
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Not touching Gillislee at his price, but I added Lewis and Burkhead for almost free in a couple leagues. White is probably the guy with the most consistent value, but I haven't had good luck with the strictly receiving backs in NE in the past.

 
 People even consider drafting Patriots RBs still? (This isn't a shot at OP, if anyone actually wants to try and decipher this backfield wreck...more power to you)

I learned to steer clear years ago. Invariably I still end up with one here or there across my several squads.

I don't really care which one does well, the only way I will ultimately have him is  if he is on the wire after the season starts and I pick him up.

My roster spots are too precious to bother with this goofy ####storm year after year.

The point is, the only way I would ever get one of these is the above "pluck off the wire" accident. I'm not spending any draft capital on this Belichick spearheaded RB backfield jigsaw puzzle.

The less I focus on any Pats RB  and "value" or role, thats time better spent on thinking about which backfields I really want to pursue and try and load up on.

 The Pats, and any old school Mike Shanahan coached RB committee , are 2 I vowed to stay away from.

 Ironically, in one league last year I ended up with Blount...... and traded his ### away for pennies on the dollar  in like week 2, so thats just another reason I won't screw with it again.    :wall:

 TZM

 
TZMarkie said:
 People even consider drafting Patriots RBs still? (This isn't a shot at OP, if anyone actually wants to try and decipher this backfield wreck...more power to you)

I learned to steer clear years ago. Invariably I still end up with one here or there across my several squads.

I don't really care which one does well, the only way I will ultimately have him is  if he is on the wire after the season starts and I pick him up.

My roster spots are too precious to bother with this goofy ####storm year after year.

The point is, the only way I would ever get one of these is the above "pluck off the wire" accident. I'm not spending any draft capital on this Belichick spearheaded RB backfield jigsaw puzzle.

The less I focus on any Pats RB  and "value" or role, thats time better spent on thinking about which backfields I really want to pursue and try and load up on.

 The Pats, and any old school Mike Shanahan coached RB committee , are 2 I vowed to stay away from.

 Ironically, in one league last year I ended up with Blount...... and traded his ### away for pennies on the dollar  in like week 2, so thats just another reason I won't screw with it again.    :wall:

 TZM
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In best ball formats, yes. 

Or in dynasty where I already have Gillislee (handcuffed McCoy last year) I'd like to have some idea of his role and value to either trade or keep him as my primary backup / rb3. 

And there does come a point where they become worthwhile. Maybe that's waivers but in larger leagues they won't be there.

 
The uncertainty keeps these guys way cheaper than their production. Got Lewis a couple years ago for nothing in the preseason, and Blount last year for a 4th, and those two moves have basically kept the RB2 position filled at close to 0 cost (though it is certainly conducive to burning roster spots on the random NE backups).

Agreed it's a headache but difference-making upside for cheap seems very worth trying to decipher

 
as usual no clarity on the NE RB situation.  I snagged D. Lewis & Burkhead late in one league.  It's almost like playing the lotto as I have no clue as to who is going to shine in that backfield.

 
They all have value at the right price. obviously, Blount was a monster last year.   Problem is going to be you're going to start one guy one week and he'll get 40 yards no Tds, then you'll have him on your bench and he'll go off for >100 total yards and 1 or 2 tds. Then you'll put him back in and he'll go back to the 40 yard game.  So the upside is there, but there will be a lot of inconsistency which will be hard to predict.

 
I still like Burkhead with his value. Reasons:

1. He's the biggest of the RBs 

2. He is the best athlete of the RBs

3. He's the only back on the team that can do it all. White and Lewis are primarily pass catchers. Gillislee is primarily a between the tackles pounder. Burkhead can do both. This makes him more versatile and allows the Pats to disguise their plays better. Also, it gives Rex more opportunities if their are injuries or poor performance among the other RBs. 

 
Anarchy99 said:
The real depth chart is more like Gillislee (out this past week with a hamstring injury), Burkhead (all purpose can do all things fairly well), White (most receiving opportunities), and then Lewis (limited snaps and touches, who is now their kick returner).

BB mentioned the other day he would prefer the guys out there to be able to do different things so defenses would not know what was coming. Last year, it was pretty much predictable . . . a running play if Blount was in the game or a passing play with White in the game. As far as linebackers were concerned, they didn't have to worry about covering Blount and they didn't have to be concerned very much with White running the ball.
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I think these are good observations - it's probably been said elsewhere but we may  see a return to the days of Ridley/Woodhead, which would be fine.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I think these are good observations - it's probably been said elsewhere but we may  see a return to the days of Ridley/Woodhead, which would be fine.
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I know the plan last year was to use Lewis and White together on passing downs, making it nearly impossible to cover one of them. However, Lewis missed the first half of the sesaon and wasn't right when he came back, so that plan got scrubbed.

I have heard this year they have been practicing a similar plan with Burkhead added to the mix . . . even before the Edelman injury. They definitely are going to try to mix things up on the offense this year by having all their receiving threats line up in different spots and go in motion on top of that. Like the NBA, BB has commented that the NFL is moving to position less receivers and anyone on the field should be able to run all the routes and line up all over the field, making it really hard to know what play is coming and who the ball will be going to.

 
Ilov80s said:
I still like Burkhead with his value. Reasons:

1. He's the biggest of the RBs 

2. He is the best athlete of the RBs

3. He's the only back on the team that can do it all. White and Lewis are primarily pass catchers. Gillislee is primarily a between the tackles pounder. Burkhead can do both. This makes him more versatile and allows the Pats to disguise their plays better. Also, it gives Rex more opportunities if their are injuries or poor performance among the other RBs. 
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I disagree as far as Lewis not being effective rushing the ball, though obviously he may be fragile enough that the point was moot. When he was healthy and at his best that offense was wide open and shredding people precisely because he was a dual threat (not that he's a 'pounder' per se but slippery enough people rarely got a big hit on him).

with all the injuries it's easy to forget (not that you are guilty of this; more a commentary on the general narrative) that IIRC the knee injury was the noncontact "put your foot in the ground wrong on a cut" injury as opposed to inside running punishment getting to him. Curious about the broken leg with the browns in this regard as well, not sure off the top of the head but he's prone to making some nasty cuts that probably put some serious torque on his legs

 
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Another confusing element is that in Game 3, what most consider the dress rehearsal for the real thing, didn't Lewis get the start? He looked decent too.

not sure if that was because others are dinged, misdirection by BB, whatever.

there is value here - I had a piece in guys like Kevin Faulk and other passcatchinf RBs in this O as they delivered in PPR, but prognosticating who the better guy(s) will be this year seems impossible.

Forgoing the definite value in this backfield this year for guys with a clearer and more transparent  path to reps.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Another confusing element is that in Game 3, what most consider the dress rehearsal for the real thing, didn't Lewis get the start? He looked decent too.

not sure if that was because others are dinged, misdirection by BB, whatever.

there is value here - I had a piece in guys like Kevin Faulk and other passcatchinf RBs in this O as they delivered in PPR, but prognosticating who the better guy(s) will be this year seems impossible.

Forgoing the definite value in this backfield this year for guys with a clearer and more transparent  path to reps.
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Burkhead and Gillislee have been banged up. Lewis is not going to be the starter. He also has played the most in the preseason (which in NE is a bad thing).

 
Anarchy99 said:
Burkhead and Gillislee have been banged up. Lewis is not going to be the starter. He also has played the most in the preseason (which in NE is a bad thing).
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Makes sense -- I could have sworn I saw Burkhead and others (James White) get some goes in earlier games, but this is a much more simpler answer to why Lewis was toting the rock. Thanks.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Another confusing element is that in Game 3, what most consider the dress rehearsal for the real thing, didn't Lewis get the start? He looked decent too.

not sure if that was because others are dinged, misdirection by BB, whatever.

there is value here - I had a piece in guys like Kevin Faulk and other passcatchinf RBs in this O as they delivered in PPR, but prognosticating who the better guy(s) will be this year seems impossible.

Forgoing the definite value in this backfield this year for guys with a clearer and more transparent  path to reps.
Click to expand...
Burkhead was inactive with an unknown injury that didn't keep him out of practice so if there is any kind of swerve there it's Burkhead was fine, has his role secured and the Pats want to hide it. Of course that's probably looking into it too deep.

 
Ilov80s said:
Burkhead was inactive with an unknown injury that didn't keep him out of practice so if there is any kind of swerve there it's Burkhead was fine, has his role secured and the Pats want to hide it. Of course that's probably looking into it too deep.
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Burkhead was missed some practices in camp . . . it's not like he has participated in everything. LIke all things New England, who knows what that means.

I would not be surprised if the Pats are trying to give Lewis more work only to trade him for a pick or defensive help. I would guess that depends on how much they like Foster and what other holes they think they have.

 
Anarchy99 said:
Burkhead was missed some practices in camp . . . it's not like he has participated in everything. LIke all things New England, who knows what that means.

I would not be surprised if the Pats are trying to give Lewis more work only to trade him for a pick or defensive help. I would guess that depends on how much they like Foster and what other holes they think they have.
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Maybe I misread/heard something. He was back at practice after he missed the game. Seems like no NE writer is aware of any specific injury. 

 
The best way to tell how hurt a NE player is is to observe if he is around the team and in the locker room. Guys that are going-to-miss-time hurt are hidden and not accessible to the media at all. If a player is seen with everyone else (but not doing anything), that is a good sign. Burkhead was still around, so whatever he had was minor.

 
Sandeman said:
Any chance Dion Lewis winds up being the one to own? Is he recovered?
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I don't think so, he doesn't look to have the same juice as he did before his injury. However, this is New England so who the hell knows how it shakes out. 

 
He looks and feels better than 2016 4sure, and he even says as much. He is the best rb on the roster if he is back to form. They need to keep him healthy for the playoffs IMO 

 
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Feel like people sleeping on James White a bit. Gave him big contract, Belichick loves him. Gets a bump with Edelman injury. Not going to put up massive numbers or anything but all the talk of Burkhead over him I don't understand. Did people watch the Superbowl?

 
JAMES! said:
Feel like people sleeping on James White a bit. Gave him big contract, Belichick loves him. Gets a bump with Edelman injury. Not going to put up massive numbers or anything but all the talk of Burkhead over him I don't understand. Did people watch the Superbowl?
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Yes........but how often are the Pats going to be down 28-3 in the second half to lead to the game script that got him those 14 catches?

 
JAMES! said:
Feel like people sleeping on James White a bit. Gave him big contract, Belichick loves him. Gets a bump with Edelman injury. Not going to put up massive numbers or anything but all the talk of Burkhead over him I don't understand. Did people watch the Superbowl?
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I'm not following the concept of the pass catching running back benefiting from Edelman's injury. He didn't catch passes out of the back field. 

 
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