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Tarik Cohen - RB - CHI

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Patterson hasn't returned punts that I am aware of but he is great on kicks.

I dont know if Patterson will take many targets. I can see both him and Cohen on the field stretching the defense laterally. It's a bit of a run fit nightmare.

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23 hours ago, killface said:

I own Cohen but strongly believe we are at peak cohen

I’m almost at this point as well.  I think I might just take the Montgomery discount a few rounds later because I believe he will have just as many points at the end of the year as Cohen.

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On 5/10/2019 at 1:01 PM, tangfoot said:

Yes, I read your opinion, I'm just not buying it.  I think we've seen Peak Cohen and should sell high.

What trades have you seen with him?  I doubt many would give top 15 RB value for him but I'm expecting performance around that level in ppr.  Sproles was always likewise underrated in my leagues. 

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8 hours ago, -OZ- said:

What trades have you seen with him?  I doubt many would give top 15 RB value for him but I'm expecting performance around that level in ppr.  Sproles was always likewise underrated in my leagues. 

I havent seen any trades for Conen recently. But if it helps, I'd give a mid 1st for him, although I feel like I wouldnt need to pay that much.

Nobody wants a rb who doesnt have that feature back upside. But what's wrong with a long term RB2?

None of the weapons Chicago has added recently will keep Cohen off the field or steal his targets. He creates too many mismatches out of the backfield. A little boom or bust, but what the hell?

 

Edited by cloppbeast
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2 hours ago, cloppbeast said:

I havent seen any trades for Conen recently. But if it helps, I'd give a mid 1st for him, although I feel like I wouldnt need to pay that much.

Nobody wants a rb who doesnt have that feature back upside. But what's wrong with a long term RB2?

None of the weapons Chicago has added recently will keep Cohen off the field or steal his targets. He creates too many mismatches out of the backfield. A little boom or bust, but what the hell?

 

That's pretty much what I thought, a mid first seems reasonable both to buy or sell, but you're right that most wouldn't give that much. Which makes "selling high" a real challenge

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14 hours ago, -OZ- said:

What trades have you seen with him?  I doubt many would give top 15 RB value for him but I'm expecting performance around that level in ppr.  Sproles was always likewise underrated in my leagues. 

 

In my FFPC Rookie draft a few weeks ago, I traded him for 1.07 which I then used to select Darrell Henderson.  I was in the sell high camp on Cohen and am drinking the Kool-Aid on Henderson's upside.  Hope I don't regret this in a couple of years...

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14 minutes ago, ComfortablyNumb said:

 

In my FFPC Rookie draft a few weeks ago, I traded him for 1.07 which I then used to select Darrell Henderson.  I was in the sell high camp on Cohen and am drinking the Kool-Aid on Henderson's upside.  Hope I don't regret this in a couple of years...

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

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44 minutes ago, ComfortablyNumb said:

 

In my FFPC Rookie draft a few weeks ago, I traded him for 1.07 which I then used to select Darrell Henderson.  I was in the sell high camp on Cohen and am drinking the Kool-Aid on Henderson's upside.  Hope I don't regret this in a couple of years...

I think I'd have kept Cohen but definitely get the Henderson hype.

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Q&A with Tarik Cohen: On the Bears' new-look backfield, his evolving role and the 'optimistic' vibe at Halas Hall

Excerpt:

On rookie running back David Montgomery

He’s just dynamic. I feel like he’s hungry. And he has that great one-leg cut that he can do. Also he’s not afraid to lower the shoulder. Plus he’s a fast learner. I really haven’t seen him make too many (mental errors) on the field even with all the offense we’re installing right now.

On how the Bears’ new-look backfield might affect his role personally 

I don’t see anything affecting my role because I’m a do-it-all guy. I can fit any mold. So I’m just here to do whatever they need me to do, whether it’s in the backfield or whether it’s in the receiving game or special teams. I’m just here to put my two cents in where I can.

On the variety this Bears offense has with so many playmaking weapons now 

It’s great. We have guys everywhere who can score and who are a threat to take the ball 80 (yards) every single play. That’s going to (be good) for everybody individually. There won’t be people getting double-covered. There will be single matchups across the board. And that’s what you really want as an offense.

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7 minutes ago, ComfortablyNumb said:

That's just crazy talk.  He'll continue to put up RB1 points about 1 game out of 5, but you won't be able to predict when those 3 or 4 games will be, so he will probably be on your bench when they happen. 

 

Wait.  Brown is predicting Cohen will run for 1,100 yds?  By doing what?  Running 10 jet sweeps a game and hoping Ds somehow don’t catch on?

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9 minutes ago, ComfortablyNumb said:

That's just crazy talk.  He'll continue to put up RB1 points about 1 game out of 5, but you won't be able to predict when those 3 or 4 games will be, so he will probably be on your bench when they happen. 

#13 overall rb in ppr last year by putting up rb1 #'s 1 out of 5 games?

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6 minutes ago, Soulfly3 said:

#13 overall rb in ppr last year by putting up rb1 #'s 1 out of 5 games?

He had four games over 20 points (RB1) in 2018 and seven games below 10 pts (not starter-worthy). Plus, Montgomery is more of an every-down back than Howard was, Mike Davis can play, and Kerrith Whyte is also very athletic. 

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2 minutes ago, ComfortablyNumb said:

He had four games over 20 points (RB1) in 2018 and seven games below 10 pts (not starter-worthy). Plus, Montgomery is more of an every-down back than Howard was, Mike Davis can play, and Kerrith Whyte is also very athletic. 

he still finished as RB13 in a ppr league.

know why? he's a ppr monster

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32 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

Wait.  Brown is predicting Cohen will run for 1,100 yds?  By doing what?  Running 10 jet sweeps a game and hoping Ds somehow don’t catch on?

Yeah, I have to agree with this. Its farfetched. The best I could see Cohen hitting is 700 rushing yards. That could be a Kamara type of year, which would be great though. 

Edited by cloppbeast

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13 minutes ago, Soulfly3 said:

he still finished as RB13 in a ppr league.

know why? he's a ppr monster

He's the kind of player that makes guys wonder why their team didn't have a better record - after all, it scored all these points!

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4 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

Yeah, I have to agree with this. Its farfetched. The best I could see Cohen hitting is 700 rushing yards. That could be a Kamara type of year, which would be great though. 

 

So you’re predicting the possibility of around 160 carries for him this year?  

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3 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

So you’re predicting the possibility of around 160 carries for him this year?  

No, not expecting so many. But yeah, it's a possibility I think. 

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He isn't very good at getting what the defense gives him. He loses yards going to the outside when he should slice up north/south for the minimal but better positive gain. 

That said it is a shortcoming that young RBs often have and can learn to overcome. He is an electric playmaker otherwise and needs and commands touches.

Or so I would have thought. I'm a Bears fan and know it's hard to be objective here, but the 4 touch game they lost against the Eagles still pisses me off. I don't get it and I think there is no excuse for it. I'm not sure what the explanation is, whether it be the Eagles took him out of the game, whether coaches don't like him as much as we think, maybe he was banged up, or maybe he simply just had an outlier game in a random sense. But then following that up by drafting Montgomery, who I have big hopes for, my inclination is to think Montgomery will play entire sets of series, so will Cohen, but it will be something like a 2 to 1 split in favor of Monty. Davis will mix in here and there. In such a scenario both Monty and Cohen can be used without anyone tipping the defense. 

So I think Cohen more or less keeps the same role he had and is plenty valuable in PPR. But Monty will be the man. 

4 touches for the RB13? Aggregate points for the season don't mean a lot on a week to week basis when less than 10 pts are being put up. I'm afraid that kind of inconsistency is in store again. Better for bestball.

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23 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

He's the kind of player that makes guys wonder why their team didn't have a better record - after all, it scored all these points!

fantasy points per week: 

7.10    3.50    9.80    30.40    23.10    22.30    18.00    2.30    16.40    6.00    18.90    34.65    12.90    14.50    2.90    

30+ - 2

20+ - 2

10+ - 5

9 of 15 fantasy weeks (i assume most dont play week 17) he scored 10+pts

i'll take that as my RB2/3/4 any day of the week. Sure, you dont want him as your RB1, but Id be hardpressed to find a team where he is.

Edited by Soulfly3
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15 minutes ago, Soulfly3 said:

fantasy points per week: 

7.10    3.50    9.80    30.40    23.10    22.30    18.00    2.30    16.40    6.00    18.90    34.65    12.90    14.50    2.90    

30+ - 2

20+ - 2

10+ - 5

9 of 15 fantasy weeks (i assume most dont play week 17) he scored 10+pts

i'll take that as my RB2/3/4 any day of the week. Sure, you dont want him as your RB1, but Id be hardpressed to find a team where he is.

Fair. So I'm personally of the opinion that a players performance in week 17 and the playoffs should absolutely count in our assessments of players. No of course we're not starting them in week 17 or in the NFL playoffs, but many of the players on our rosters may not be starting for us in a given midseason week anyway, yet we don't throw those games out of their sample when we do our assessments. So why throw out week 17 or the playoffs? They certainly tell a more complete story than without them. And may be especially useful for guys who missed games during the season. Sounds like Cohen missed just one. And I don't remember what he did in week 17 but he definitely laid an egg in the WC round.

None of that diminishes your point though. Cohen is still valuable in the way you described. I just think he has an unappealing floor. No question the ceiling is sexy AF.

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3 hours ago, ComfortablyNumb said:

He had four games over 20 points (RB1) in 2018 and seven games below 10 pts (not starter-worthy). Plus, Montgomery is more of an every-down back than Howard was, Mike Davis can play, and Kerrith Whyte is also very athletic. 

Tarik Cohen is the best weapon Chicago has on offense. 

Montgomery is a 3rd round pick and a rookie....they didn't bring in Le'Veon Bell or Saquon Barkley here. Montgomery HELPS keep Cohen's role large in this offense because I think he's very overrated by the community right now. 

If you're a OC or HC, are you really throwing the football to Montgomery, Davis, or Kerrith flipping White over Cohen? Nope

Davis eats into Montgomery's touches more than Cohen's.

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30 minutes ago, tdmills said:

Tarik Cohen is the best weapon Chicago has on offense. 

Montgomery is a 3rd round pick and a rookie....they didn't bring in Le'Veon Bell or Saquon Barkley here. Montgomery HELPS keep Cohen's role large in this offense because I think he's very overrated by the community right now. 

If you're a OC or HC, are you really throwing the football to Montgomery, Davis, or Kerrith flipping White over Cohen? Nope

Davis eats into Montgomery's touches more than Cohen's.

The Bears didn't pick until the 3rd and they moved up 14 picks to get him.

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45 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

The Bears didn't pick until the 3rd and they moved up 14 picks to get him.

Chicago moved up to draft Anthony Miller the year before and gave him 54 targets, which was 5th on the team.

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1 hour ago, tdmills said:

Chicago moved up to draft Anthony Miller the year before and gave him 54 targets, which was 5th on the team.

He played injured much of the year and caught 7 TDs. He is hardly a bust at this point. And it has nothing whatsoever to do with Montgomery's prospects. 

 

2 hours ago, tdmills said:

Tarik Cohen is the best weapon Chicago has on offense. 

Montgomery is a 3rd round pick and a rookie....they didn't bring in Le'Veon Bell or Saquon Barkley here. Montgomery HELPS keep Cohen's role large in this offense because I think he's very overrated by the community right now. 

If you're a OC or HC, are you really throwing the football to Montgomery, Davis, or Kerrith flipping White over Cohen? Nope

Davis eats into Montgomery's touches more than Cohen's.

If I'm a head coach or OC there is a list a mile long of things I would do differently. As a Bears fan don't even get me started. I agree that Cohen is the best weapon on the team, or at least he was last year. But just because you or I would give Cohen the ball more doesn't mean these guys will. They gave it to him 4 flipping times in the WC round. Maybe the question should be will *these* coaches throw it to one of those guys over Cohen? And in Montgomery's case he is a really good receiver and has been praised for his hands and route running out of the backfield. I really think both Montgomery and Cohen are going to be playing entire series, not coming off (or on) on 3rd down. But Montgomery will play 2 for every 1 of Cohen's. Why do I say that? Because it is what I would do. So we should probably target Mike Davis. Haha.

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4 hours ago, tdmills said:

Tarik Cohen is the best weapon Chicago has on offense. 

Montgomery is a 3rd round pick and a rookie....they didn't bring in Le'Veon Bell or Saquon Barkley here. Montgomery HELPS keep Cohen's role large in this offense because I think he's very overrated by the community right now. 

If you're a OC or HC, are you really throwing the football to Montgomery, Davis, or Kerrith flipping White over Cohen? Nope

Davis eats into Montgomery's touches more than Cohen's.

 

By your logic, Tyreek Hill ought to be doubling his touches.  Clearly the best weapon on KC.  Similar style in that both guys are undersized and make their bones by getting the ball in space.  Yet Hill gets fewer touches by quite a margin but is much more productive, and that includes ypc when he rushes the ball.  Hill is definitely a better offensive weapon than Cohen, yet KC doesn’t force him into situations where he isn’t as successful and lets other more capable guys do the heavy lifting and gives them a lot more touches than Hill gets.  That optimizes Hill’s talents. 

Is there a reason why CHI wouldn’t want to do the same with Cohen?

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23 hours ago, barackdhouse said:

He played injured much of the year and caught 7 TDs. He is hardly a bust at this point. And it has nothing whatsoever to do with Montgomery's prospects. 

 

If I'm a head coach or OC there is a list a mile long of things I would do differently. As a Bears fan don't even get me started. I agree that Cohen is the best weapon on the team, or at least he was last year. But just because you or I would give Cohen the ball more doesn't mean these guys will. They gave it to him 4 flipping times in the WC round. Maybe the question should be will *these* coaches throw it to one of those guys over Cohen? And in Montgomery's case he is a really good receiver and has been praised for his hands and route running out of the backfield. I really think both Montgomery and Cohen are going to be playing entire series, not coming off (or on) on 3rd down. But Montgomery will play 2 for every 1 of Cohen's. Why do I say that? Because it is what I would do. So we should probably target Mike Davis. Haha.

I brought up Anthony Miller simply because a team trades up for a player during day 2 of a draft....doesn't equal showering them with tons of touches. Yes, Miller had a shoulder...but he mainly played through it.

 

I'm a Bears fan as well. But mentioning a 7th round pick RB or Mike Davis as threats to Cohen is ridiculous.

 

As much as everyone wants to crown David Montgomery, he WAS a 3rd round pick. Teams passed on him multiple times and 3 teams decided to draft another RB instead. He's not a sure thing or a prime time RB prospect.

 

Jordan Howard had 270 touches in 2018....I don't see Montgomery getting all of those and still leaving plenty of room for an RB1 last year in Cohen.

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On 6/15/2019 at 5:10 PM, barackdhouse said:

Fair. So I'm personally of the opinion that a players performance in week 17 and the playoffs should absolutely count in our assessments of players. No of course we're not starting them in week 17 or in the NFL playoffs, but many of the players on our rosters may not be starting for us in a given midseason week anyway, yet we don't throw those games out of their sample when we do our assessments. So why throw out week 17 or the playoffs? They certainly tell a more complete story than without them. And may be especially useful for guys who missed games during the season. Sounds like Cohen missed just one. And I don't remember what he did in week 17 but he definitely laid an egg in the WC round.

I'll tell you why I throw them out for every player in the league.

To start with, MFL ignores them because my leagues do not play Week 17.  When I look at scoring history of my leagues, it's Weeks 1-16 only.  I need to come to the stats page at FBG to include Week 17, and the values are mostly meaningless.  Some teams are resting, some teams are pushing for the playoffs or a specific berth.  It feels like there are more wildly oddball points in Week 17 than in any other week of the season.

Likewise, I actively ignore playoff stats because those games are not indicative of a player's future prospects.  Win or go home makes for a lot of very skewed performances.

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8 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

Likewise, I actively ignore playoff stats 

you mean Gurley isn't a 10th tier RB?

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I really don't see Cohen's numbers being any different from last year. I think that was optimal for both Cohen and the Bears. He's a very dangerous weapon, and a huge mismatch, for a QB who hasn't shown the ability to make highly contested throws. He had 170 touches last year, and that seems fair, I could see it swaying a little more toward receptions, but nobody will complain about that. 

This backfield looks like Michel/White/Burkhead all over again. With Montgomery/Cohen/Davis respectively.

He's the #2 option in the passing game in my eyes, and will never be lower than 3rd. Perfect fantasy RB3 to me.

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14 hours ago, Tanner9919 said:

half-decent flex option at best

Based on what?  The guy put up the 12th highest ppr total points and ppg avg for rb's during weeks 1-16 last year.  He averaged more than Fournette, Cook, A Jones, Lindsay, just to mention a few.  Are those guys less than half decent flex options too?

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On 6/17/2019 at 10:28 AM, tangfoot said:

I'll tell you why I throw them out for every player in the league. 

To start with, MFL ignores them because my leagues do not play Week 17.  When I look at scoring history of my leagues, it's Weeks 1-16 only.  I need to come to the stats page at FBG to include Week 17, and the values are mostly meaningless.  Some teams are resting, some teams are pushing for the playoffs or a specific berth.  It feels like there are more wildly oddball points in Week 17 than in any other week of the season. 

Likewise, I actively ignore playoff stats because those games are not indicative of a player's future prospects.  Win or go home makes for a lot of very skewed performances. 

That  is a commish setting on MFL.

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On 6/17/2019 at 9:42 AM, travdogg said:

I really don't see Cohen's numbers being any different from last year. I think that was optimal for both Cohen and the Bears. He's a very dangerous weapon, and a huge mismatch, for a QB who hasn't shown the ability to make highly contested throws. He had 170 touches last year, and that seems fair, I could see it swaying a little more toward receptions, but nobody will complain about that. 

This backfield looks like Michel/White/Burkhead all over again. With Montgomery/Cohen/Davis respectively.

He's the #2 option in the passing game in my eyes, and will never be lower than 3rd. Perfect fantasy RB3 to me.

This is my belief as well.  No reason why he can't get 65-70 receptions again and about 7 TDs, along with 100-125 carries.  Problem is....he's a game script kind of guy.  If the Bears are ahead, you will probably see more Montgomery/Davis and less of Cohen.  So he's going to be inconsistent like he was in 2018.

Perfect for an RB3 or a flex option.   Or he can be a RB2 if you drafted someone like Barkley as your RB1 and punted RB2 for a while, stacking up on WRs and an elite TE.  But I much rather have him as my RB3.

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Tarik Cohen does not expect his role to change following the additions of David Montgomery and Mike Davis.

"I feel like I'm going to be doing the same things I was doing last year," Cohen told SiriusXM NFL Radio. "I feel like I still have to be the receiving back, come in and be the change-of-pace back, running the ball, be that speed guy." Cohen went on to praise the "mad scientist" Matt Nagy for finding ways to get him on mismatches. It is possible if not likely Cohen sees fewer touches with both Montgomery and Davis able to function in the passing game, but he should remain Chicago's primary option on passing downs.

SOURCE: SiriusXM

Jun 20, 2019, 11:42 AM ET

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5 hours ago, cloppbeast said:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AuSFeTY0x0c

Week 5 Tampa Bay had no answer for 29. Nobody started him either. I beat the guy in my league who had Tarik on the bench, pretty sure.

 

About as accurate as usual.  CHI played TB in week 4 last year, and anyone starting Cohen at that time was probably in last place given that he had turned in 3 huge turds in the first 3 weeks of the season.  He was averaging 7 touches for less than 45 yds per game and 0 TDs going into that games.

Edited by Bronco Billy

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43 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

About as accurate as usual.  CHI played TB in week 4 last year, and anyone starting Cohen at that time was probably in last place given that he had turned in 3 huge turds in the first 3 weeks of the season.  He was averaging 7 touches for less than 45 yds per game and 0 TDs going into that games.

Sorry, I meant week 4 not week 5. Your efforts are much appreciated. Nobody else around here has the tedious passion for minutia or the even the initiative to correct the minor mistakes which plague the SP. Heres to you BroncoBilly, and your 5 o'clock shadow having cigar smoking smiley face guy.

With that ovation out of the way, my overall point stands: despite all these awesome plays he made in week 4, they didnt do his owners any good. Ironic, right?

Seriously, he made some awesome plays though.

Edited by cloppbeast

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45 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

Sorry, I meant week 4 not week 5. Your efforts are much appreciated. Nobody else around here has the tedious passion for minutia or the even the initiative to correct the minor mistakes which plague the SP. Heres to you BroncoBilly, and your 5 o'clock shadow having cigar smoking smiley face guy.

With that ovation out of the way, my overall point stands: despite all these awesome plays he made in week 4, they didnt do his owners any good. Ironic, right?

Seriously, he made some awesome plays though.

 

I knows it irks you that accuracy means something to some of us here.  I also understand that when you tell half a story for your own gratification that it is bothersome when others put forth the other half as part of discussion.  But this is a message board and I would have figured that you’d realize by now that these kinds of things are part of posting here.  It’s part of having a discussion rather than just having a board full of slanted monologues.

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6 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

I knows it irks you that accuracy means something to some of us here.  I also understand that when you tell half a story for your own gratification that it is bothersome when others put forth the other half as part of discussion.  But this is a message board and I would have figured that you’d realize by now that these kinds of things are part of posting here.  It’s part of having a discussion rather than just having a board full of slanted monologues.

Youre right. Rather than slanted monologues, smartass remarks about when chicago played tampa bay, (week 4 or 5 lol) is much preferred on these message boards.

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10 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

Youre right. Rather than slanted monologues, smartass remarks about when chicago played tampa bay, (week 4 or 5 lol) is much preferred on these message boards.

 

Okay. Have it your way.  I’m done (Joe and/or mods - no need to remind to get back to football).  We really do need TC to start...

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