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White Nationalists march on University of Virginia (2 Viewers)

jon_mx said:
I was not comparing the justifications for the March.  I was referring to the violent rhetoric from both.  That needed to be condemned from both sides.  
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Violence of BLM was condemned by Obama every time he spoke.

These goobers have nothing legitimate to complain about. It's the easiest slam dunk in the history of politics to come out and denounce this.

Even Trump can't mess this up. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
Stop.  Feeding.  The.  Trolls.

This isn't tax policy or charter schools or environmental regulations. There aren't legitimate arguments to be made from varying viewpoints. This is white supremacists gaining in numbers and visibility, unquestionably because of the attitudes of the White House. It's just bad.  Anyone who tries to change the subject, rather than condemning these garbage humans and hoping the White House will change direction and join the rest of humanity in doing the same, is in denial of this simple, obvious point. 
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Some hillybillies got together and had a little party. 

What else is there to debate or discuss?

Sidebars about Obama and Civil Wars are the only reason it can stay on the first page.

 
jon_mx said:
I have agreed it needs to be condemned.  I was simply countering a point which I disagreed with.  
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You countered it with complete lies about both the nature of BLM and of Obamas response.  

And there are literally people in this march wearing Trump MAGA hats and white nationalists in the White House. So even if you weren't lying (which, again, you absolutely were) your point would still be totally invalid because the link between the group and the president and his top personnel is much much greater here.

Ill go back to taking my own advice now.  Have a good day.

 
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Ilov80s said:
A reporter interviewed one of the marcher and asked if this was about the statue. He said it wasn't but was because of millennials. He said they are degenerates who need safe spaces. I guess millennials really are ruining everything lol. 
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It's tribalism at its extreme.  They don't care about anything really, except that they hate the mexicans and the coloreds and the snowflake lib'ruls and it's about damn time they can finally tell it like it is!

 
If people think the biggest issue regarding the police community and minority communities around the nation are the actual killings, they are missing the underlying point.

Those are the still rare (yet far too frequent) yet tragically extreme examples that catch everyone's attention and are driven by the whorish violence is ratings media.

The worst part of this are the low level crimes that end up becoming life altering, and career/productive citizen ending moments - costing all of us. And those crimes disproportionately affect people of color - and it is their color above and beyond all else in this instance, with social mores adding some layer and depth.

From being pulled over far far more often, to being frisked, apprehended for little or no reason... and for any of these instances, those of color are under the suspicion of guilt far more than the same person with less pigment. This isn't even to get into systematic economic and social exclusion, that even with fully even-handed and responsible, community oriented policing (that's not to say "community policing" tactics per se) would skew the scales as a result of lack of access to education, safe environments, opportunity.  

When you take:

(1) Historic places along the socio-economic ladder (because we don't all start at the same place, and while America provides an opportunity to do better, the fact is indisputable that if you start far more well off than another, you are far more likely to succeed in any number of ways), then

(2) layer systematic advantage for certain communities that, in the end, do strike strongly across racial and ethnic lines (even if the underlying reasons and perhaps solutions, are economic and social in nature) and on top of THAT

(3) over-militarized police that "enforce" far more strongly in certain neighborhoods and against people because of their color/ethnicity and to top it off

(4) a justice system that, while it's often economic at the core, is slanted terribly against those of less means, and in certain jury and other situations, additional hurdles for those of color (from drug enforcement and sentencing, to plea bargains, to debters freakin' prison! seriously, wtf is wrong with people)

you've got literally a recipe for ingrained systematic racism that only reinforces the false narratives of the cowards we see marching today.

In this case, the marchers are so weak as human beings and pathetic excuses of Americans as to be

(1) not only against new competition such as immigrants, which propelled this nation to it's former greatness, they

(2) can't even deal with an even playing field, and believe their white privilege means to keep down children born into the wrong place, wrong community, of the wrong color)

If you are one of these vermin marching, you are the very evil this nation was formed to stand against. If you support or don't call out these vermin, we know which side you are on. And it is not that of what America should (used to? will once again?) stand for: Freedom, liberty, equality, respect of other people's religion culture and background, community that is bound by being American first, not faux patriotism that undercuts our very tenets with American First.  

 
TobiasFunke said:
Stop.  Feeding.  The.  Trolls.

This isn't tax policy or charter schools or environmental regulations. There aren't legitimate arguments to be made from varying viewpoints. This is white supremacists gaining in numbers and visibility, unquestionably because of the attitudes of the White House. It's just bad.  Anyone who tries to change the subject, rather than condemning these garbage humans and hoping the White House will change direction and join the rest of humanity in doing the same, is in denial of this simple, obvious point. 
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Terrific post. 

 
Bacon is Delicious said:
Trump sent out a tweet! phew!!!

That's enough presidentin' for the day.
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Getting serious for a moment here: if we're going to criticize Trump for his past refusal to immediately condemn this sort of stuff, then we should praise him for quickly tweeting about it today. Good job Mr President, no sarcasm.  :thumbup:

 
timschochet said:
Getting serious for a moment here: if we're going to criticize Trump for his past refusal to immediately condemn this sort of stuff, then we should praise him for quickly tweeting about it today. Good job Mr President, no sarcasm.  :thumbup:
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He tweeted quickly. How low is this bar? Saying this however he wants to do it doesn't need to be applauded it should be expected. 

I'm happy he didn't tweet "MAGA" I suppose.

 
I bet it killed Trump to tweet about it. Like signing the Russia sanctions. 

But hey better than nothing. 

 
BTW, and let me be clear - if you don't call out these folks, AND if you try to justify in any way using false equivalences or false narratives, we know what side you are on.

There is no hashing up the grey area.  Build a narrative to undercut the disgusting nature of this using one of the above mechanisms (I'm a huge critic of BLM on any number of levels and didn't vote for Obama... but calling out either as synonymous in any meaningful way is, just, that), you are more than entitled to your opinion - but so too are we about your underlying intentions, motivations, beliefs. At least we know where you stand.

And no, this is not about the weak, deflection in itself "anyone who doesn't agree" - narrative.  On this specific matter, if we don't "agree" it's because at best, you are tacitly ok with and if you attempt to undercut the disgusting nature of TODAY's events, then yes, I believe you are either ok with these actions)), or, if you actually use the tools above to justify or minimize this, then yes, I believe you are either racist or support their agenda and cause.  

If you don't like that, try not justifying their actions or using tactics, on this day of all, to deflect from the dangerous underlying racist, hateful, un-American and dangerous reality of these folks.  

 
The next tweet will be "ice cream is the best".

A ####### tweet gets people to congratulate him? As I said earlier though if he does anything except prepared remarks with no questions on this type of topic look out.

He is not capable of having these type of discussions without creating a complete fiasco.

 
The next massive misstep the democrats can make is to refuse calls for border restrictions and label republicans as white supremacists instead.  And of course they are already heading in that direction.  if you try to discredit this group its going to backfire so very badly.  

 
I don't think the democrats understand the republicans are 150% done.  They've had it. They are ready to go.  Back. Off.

 
The General said:
The next tweet will be "ice cream is the best".

A ####### tweet gets people to congratulate him? As I said earlier though if he does anything except prepared remarks with no questions on this type of topic look out.

He is not capable of having these type of discussions without creating a complete fiasco.
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Not only are they congratulating him for a tweet, it was a generic tweet where he does not condemn the white supremacists.

 
timschochet said:
Getting serious for a moment here: if we're going to criticize Trump for his past refusal to immediately condemn this sort of stuff, then we should praise him for quickly tweeting about it today. Good job Mr President, no sarcasm.  :thumbup:
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cosjobs said:
"We are here to fulfill the promises of President Trump"
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Let's not be pollyanna here - yes, it's (god this is sad) a good sign that the President tweeted on this... but UNLESS that is backed up with even the slightest meaningful follow up, he's as complicit in this as always

i.e.  - Gorka must be out.  Bannon should be out, but I realize that ain't happening.  At the LEAST be very clear and rebuke Duke and ANY other leader of this movement that makes such mention.

If someone used YOUR name and said this violence and racism fulfilled something you wished to see, my guess is 95% of you would IMMEDIATELY want to clear the record and be assured people know where you really stand. The other 5% can use their false equivalencies to find a way how Obama must have tweeted about something and not followed up back in the day.

 
Riversco said:
I don't think the democrats understand the republicans are 150% done.  They've had it. They are ready to go.  Back. Off.
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I don't believe that you realize that there are a lot of sane republicans like Bill Kristol that are going to defeat you. 

Guarantee there is no 100%. 

Todays events just lost you more. 

 
Riversco said:
I don't think the democrats understand the republicans are 150% done.  They've had it. They are ready to go.  Back. Off.
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We have control of the house, the senate, the supreme court, most of the governor ships, most of the state houses. HOW MUCH MORE CAN YOU SUPPRESS US!?!?

Don't you have to be out of power to "revolt"?

 
TobiasFunke said:
You countered it with complete lies about both the nature of BLM and of Obamas response.  

And there are literally people in this march wearing Trump MAGA hats and white nationalists in the White House. So even if you weren't lying (which, again, you absolutely were) your point would still be totally invalid because the link between the group and the president and his top personnel is much much greater here.

Ill go back to taking my own advice now.  Have a good day.
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I accurately stated Obama's original position and even praised him when he corrected it.  There can be no caveats when condemning the murder of innocent people.  

 
If the democrats go out there and blast all republicans as nazis, they will be an awesome recruiting tool for the nazis.  I'm just watching this whole thing fall apart with idiots on all sides and feel so frustrated.

 
Kal El said:
Personally, anyone who hates another based on race is not a smart person.

That said, I'm also upset that the marchers are trying to steal the Detroit Red Wings logo. It's been some time since I watched hockey, but they were my favorite team. Not to mention that Detroiters are actually pretty nice to people. The opposite of racists.
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Wtf...why are they hijacking the wings logo???

 
Jackstraw said:
We have control of the house, the senate, the supreme court, most of the governor ships, most of the state houses. HOW MUCH MORE CAN YOU SUPPRESS US!?!?

Don't you have to be out of power to "revolt"?
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Exactly they control everything and still are freaking out.....the gop is good at getting elected but terrible at actually governing

 
Rirruto said:
Some gruesome vids of a vehicle plowing through counter protesters on Twitter. Just awful.
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Horrible, can see a woman thrown over a car. There looks to be many serious injuries. A witness said the car was going about 40 right through protestors and then drove off, cops at the scene made no attempt to stop it. 

 
Yes, let's praise the person who tweeted this, but it certainly wasn't Donald Trump.

We ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for. There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Lets come together as one!
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Donald Trump's actual thoughts on Charlottesville can be seen in his next tweet. 

Am in Bedminster for meetings & press conference on V.A. & all that we have done, and are doing, to make it better-but Charlottesville sad!
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timschochet said:
Getting serious for a moment here: if we're going to criticize Trump for his past refusal to immediately condemn this sort of stuff, then we should praise him for quickly tweeting about it today. Good job Mr President, no sarcasm.  :thumbup:
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I think you are giving him too much credit. He didn't condemn the white supremacists. He just said, "Stop the violence." He's probably talking about the counter-protestors. That's what Richard Spencer thinks:

Richard  ☝?Spencer Retweeted Donald J. Trump

Did Trump just denounce antifa?

Richard  ☝?Spencer Retweeted Donald J. Trump

Or did Trump denounce the state police that cracked down on peacefully and lawfully assembled demonstrators?

 
timschochet said:
Getting serious for a moment here: if we're going to criticize Trump for his past refusal to immediately condemn this sort of stuff, then we should praise him for quickly tweeting about it today. Good job Mr President, no sarcasm.  :thumbup:
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No offense, but sometimes you remind me of domestic abuse victim. "He/she didn't scream at me today. Things are getting better!"

 
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