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Trump tax reform! Latest CBO update shows increase in deficit projections of 1 trillion over next 4 years, growth has failed to meet 3% goal. National Association for Business Economics: 84% of companies say tax reform has not caused them to alter plans.

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Urging for an 'unrigging' of the economy.

Fresh off the heels of the health care fiasco, Trump now aims to fix this issue. 

NYT: Trump Tax Plan May Free Up Corporate Dollars, but Then What?

 

Eta - all the title updates come from articles posted and discussed within this thread. Ie the updates aren't shtick but a way to briefly see the latest news if you don't care to dig deeper. If you think something is missing or misleading, say what it is and why and I'll fix the title as necessary. I keep the first line the same no matter what (Trump tax reform) so it limits the potential confusion of posters wondering which thread this is. 

Edited by Hilts

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In general, it's not all bad ideas. Reducing the corporate tax rate, while removing some of the deductions, makes sense to me- in general. Of course, the devil is in the details, I don't know what those details are, and I highly doubt we'll find out today or anytime soon. 

I also don't really trust this administration or Congress to accomplish this- does anyone? 

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Just now, timschochet said:

In general, it's not all bad ideas. Reducing the corporate tax rate, while removing some of the deductions, makes sense to me- in general. Of course, the devil is in the details, I don't know what those details are, and I highly doubt we'll find out today or anytime soon. 

I also don't really trust this administration or Congress to accomplish this- does anyone? 

When you say "accomplish this", do you mean just passing some sort of law?  Because I absolutely think they can pass a law that cuts taxes for the rich by blowing up the deficit even more.  I don't think there's any chance they pass something good.

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3 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

When you say "accomplish this", do you mean just passing some sort of law?  Because I absolutely think they can pass a law that cuts taxes for the rich by blowing up the deficit even more.  I don't think there's any chance they pass something good.

I mean pass some sort of real reform. I agree they'll pass some kind of tax cut- they gotta pass something, right? But any real reform of the sort Trump will be talking about today? Color me skeptical. 

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From the Politico article - what is this in reference to?  MACRS depreciation and Section 179?  It's a little awkwardly-worded.

Quote

Some Senate Republicans and the White House want to continue the practice of businesses deducting the cost of investments along a steady schedule, which could allow for a bigger cut in the top corporate rate from its current 35 percent level, administration officials said.

House Republicans led by Ryan have pushed for full and immediate expensing as the best way to boost faster growth in jobs and wages. But doing that could mean only getting to 25 percent on the corporate rate.

The article also goes on to hint, yet again, at a repatriation tax holiday, which was proven to be a failure when attempted during the mid-00s.  Companies brought funds back to the US at a lower tax rate, but for the most part did not return those funds to employees (in the form of higher wages) or increased capital expenditures to spur the economy.  He's doing a decent job of framing it as a positive for the economy, but there's a good chance it won't be unless protections are in place.

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1 minute ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Is mortgage deduction on the table?

They'll talk about it. But the answer is no. 

Personally Ive come around to agree that this should be on the table, and significantly altered if not outright eliminated. But there are too many powerful forces that would prevent this from happening. Forget about it. 

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22 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I mean pass some sort of real reform. I agree they'll pass some kind of tax cut- they gotta pass something, right? But any real reform of the sort Trump will be talking about today? Color me skeptical. 

This isn't "real reform"...it's shifting where the tax break is going to come from.....if I reduce the tax rate by .5% and at the same time remove the loophole that allows an additional .5% in tax reduction, the net result is zero change.  It doesn't do anything.  It's all political :hophead: to get a headline to show "something" was done.  I agree with you the devil's in the details, but I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell of ever getting these guys to pass "real reform".  It will be the standard :hophead: reform that we've grown accustom to at best....at worst it will be another give away to corp America that won't trickle down to the work force thus driving an even bigger wedge between upper and mid/low class

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25 minutes ago, timschochet said:
29 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Is mortgage deduction on the table?

They'll talk about it. But the answer is no. 

Personally Ive come around to agree that this should be on the table, and significantly altered if not outright eliminated. But there are too many powerful forces that would prevent this from happening. Forget about it. 

why should this be on the table bromigo i disagree completely it would really hurt the middle class and working class take that to the bank brohan 

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He can't screw the pooch on this one. It's the softball, placed on a tee, chip shot, extra point, bowling with bumpers, layup of all layups.

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Just now, The General said:

He can't screw the pooch on this one. It's the softball, placed on a tee, chip shot, extra point, bowling with bumpers, layup of all layups.

That's not true at all, tax reform is super difficult to pass.

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Just now, Bacon is Delicious said:

I'm sure whatever proposal comes forward, it will be in the best interests of the middle class and not the rich.

I'm sure everyone will benefit , but what is rich to you?

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8 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

That's not true at all, tax reform is super difficult to pass.

You have a republican congress. If Trump actually was able to find some compromises you can get a couple of Democratic senators to come over.

You think McCain isn't going to give thumbs up for some tax cuts at the end of the day?

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His speech is going to be in Springfield, MO which is probably 90% white. I'm sure that's a coincidence. What will make things interesting is it is a college town so I would think there's a good possibility of massive protests. 

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1 hour ago, The General said:

You have a republican congress. If Trump actually was able to find some compromises you can get a couple of Democratic senators to come over.

You think McCain isn't going to give thumbs up for some tax cuts at the end of the day?

Tax cuts are pretty different from tax reform.  Tax reform is hard (there's even a hashtag for it: #trih).  Tax reform requires picking winners/losers to keep revenue in balance.  On the individual side, some people may be happy with an increase to the standard deductions; others would be unhappy with taking away the state and local tax deduction.  On the corporate side, some may be happy to a rate cut; others may be upset at taking away an energy credit or something that like they like.

I think at the end of the day they will end up just doing a temporary 10-year rate cut because #trih.

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2 hours ago, timschochet said:

 

I also don't really trust this administration or Congress to accomplish this- does anyone? 

I think it depends how much he can do via Executive Order. Beyond that I'm pretty skeptical. 

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4 minutes ago, Don Quixote said:

Tax cuts are pretty different from tax reform.  Tax reform is hard (there's even a hashtag for it: #trih).  Tax reform requires picking winners/losers to keep revenue in balance.  On the individual side, some people may be happy with an increase to the standard deductions; others would be unhappy with taking away the state and local tax deduction.  On the corporate side, some may be happy to a rate cut; others may be upset at taking away an energy credit or something that like they like.

I think at the end of the day they will end up just doing a temporary 10-year rate cut because #trih.

Yes this is what I meant. Good post. 

Note: Trump will #### this up.

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I read an article - I think posted in Rock Du Jour - that the tax reform package vis a vis Congress would be different because Mnuchin and Congressional leaders are sitting in on all these sessions. In other words, there's a much more coordinated message and interworking on the tax reform package than on health care and the immediate foreign policy concerns in the administration. 

 

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37 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

His speech is going to be in Springfield, MO which is probably 90% white. I'm sure that's a coincidence.  

Who thinks like this ? Is there a race or ethnicity that enjoys paying higher taxes?

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We all need to root for this to happen. At least those of us with money in the market which I assume is most in here. 

Give him one legislative victory at least.  

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52 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I read an article - I think posted in Rock Du Jour - that the tax reform package vis a vis Congress would be different because Mnuchin and Congressional leaders are sitting in on all these sessions. In other words, there's a much more coordinated message and interworking on the tax reform package than on health care and the immediate foreign policy concerns in the administration. 

 

Would you say this is going to be where the Trump administration pivots? 

Or perhaps tax reform will be the issue where Trump finally becomes president?

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Just now, NREC34 said:

We all need to root for this to happen. At least those of us with money in the market which I assume is most in here. 

Give him one legislative victory at least.  

I assume most of us also take a decent-sized mortgage interest deduction and of course the state/local tax deductions, two things on the table to cover the corporate tax rate cut.

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1 minute ago, Juxtatarot said:

Doesn't this all have to revenue neutral to be passed by 50 votes in the Senate?  This is why I don't think anything will get done.

It can't increase the deficit beyond a 10 year window.  They can do a temporary tax cut with 50 votes.  That's why in my earlier post I said a 10 year tax cut is my best bet.

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5 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Would you say this is going to be where the Trump administration pivots? 

Or perhaps tax reform will be the issue where Trump finally becomes president?

I think, IIRC, this has been going on for a while and that Bannon and co. felt left out of the process. Indeed, they deemed it to be typically fiscally conservative, and therefore, not up their alley. 

I'm not sure he becomes president with this; I'm just repeating what those who cover the White House are talking about.

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11 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I think, IIRC, this has been going on for a while and that Bannon and co. felt left out of the process. Indeed, they deemed it to be typically fiscally conservative, and therefore, not up their alley. 

I'm not sure he becomes president with this; I'm just repeating what those who cover the White House are talking about.

I know, just pointing out the valid reasons for skepticism (or optimism, depending on what they do). Trump has a way of botching anything that doesn't involve bilking easy marks.

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26 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

I assume most of us also take a decent-sized mortgage interest deduction

The have nots hate this dedication in typical class warfare form

 

I don't think this will go , wouldn't be good for the economy 

Edited by Uncle CornCob

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3 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

Prediction: "Tax reform" hurts individuals and helps corporations.

I'd be shocked if any tax reforms help normal folks.  But then again...we can say Muslim Terrorists now, so that's a real nice thing.  

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We were told over and over again, by CNN, by Fox News, by Congress, by the Administration that they had to pass healthcare reform first, because if they did not, they couldn't make tax reform revenue neutral, and therefore they couldn't do this.

So what's happened between now and then?

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First thing he says is "I want to thank all of the people outside waving American flags".   Hard to tell at this camera angle but it looks like there's about 200 people there. 

Edited by Sheriff Bart
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1 minute ago, OrtonToOlsen said:

Is this going to be one of those times where people try to tell us that cutting tax rates at the top help the lower end somehow? 

Yes?

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"bull####, bull####' bull####, stand up (Ivanka) stand up"  (Trump claps) "I think they like you".

Edited by Sheriff Bart
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4 hours ago, timschochet said:

They'll talk about it. But the answer is no. 

Personally Ive come around to agree that this should be on the table, and significantly altered if not outright eliminated. But there are too many powerful forces that would prevent this from happening. Forget about it. 

How could you possible do away with this now?  It's baked into the price of houses.  You'd have to slowly unwind it over like 10 years or more to effectively do it in such a way that homeowners don't get screwed. 

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"in the last 10 years our economy has only grown about 2% a year.  You look at other countries and you at look at what their GDP is and they're unhappy when it is at 7,8,9%.  And I speak to the leaders of the countries and they ask how we're doing, not well, not well.  Why?  GDP is down to 7% and I say we were down to 1% just a couple of months ago and we're going to change that around folks".

 

:mellow:

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12 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

Now pimping Ivanka.   Still nothing on taxes except "it's going to be pro-America".

How much?

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