Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Hilts

Trump tax reform! Latest CBO update shows increase in deficit projections of 1 trillion over next 4 years, growth has failed to meet 3% goal. National Association for Business Economics: 84% of companies say tax reform has not caused them to alter plans.

Recommended Posts

56 minutes ago, elbowrm said:

So now they're talking about funding this corporate tax cut with a tax on amounts we put in our 401ks?  He's really going to bat for the little guy on that one.

I would be stunned if this became a real thing.  Probably a wonkish suggestion that managed to leak out.  

The US has a pretty bad retirement savings problem.   This would make things much, much worse on that front.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jake Tapper‏Verified account @jaketapper 19m19 minutes ago

Tax revenue as percentage of GDP -- ranked #31

Corporate tax revenue as percentage of GDP -- #17

Tax revenue per capita -- #19

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Slapdash said:

"Highest taxed nation in the world"  what a lying POS

Too bad his supporters aren't big on facts.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Sand said:

The US has a pretty bad retirement savings problem.   This would make things much, much worse on that front.

Would you mind unpacking this statement a bit?  I'm not doubting you.  Just trying to get more informed.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Irma is likely to cost Florida hundreds of billions, on top of the near trillion that Harvey is going to cost. How can we talk about reducing taxes at a time when the deficit is going to blow up anyhow?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bruce Dickinson said:

Would you mind unpacking this statement a bit?  I'm not doubting you.  Just trying to get more informed.   

Which piece of his statement?  The former is pretty well documented.  The latter is fairly straightforward:  pre-tax savings plan encourage workers to save more as a percentage of their income.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Irma is likely to cost Florida hundreds of billions, on top of the near trillion that Harvey is going to cost. How can we talk about reducing taxes at a time when the deficit is going to blow up anyhow?

Volume 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Hilts said:

Trump sides with Democrats, throws GOP plans into chaos.

Eta this probably belongs in one of the other threads. It's financial but not specifically tax reform related. 

He's pretty much pushed the GOP off the legislative ledge on this one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Bruce Dickinson said:

Would you mind unpacking this statement a bit?  I'm not doubting you.  Just trying to get more informed.   

Good starting point here.  Lots and lots of folks have little saved up for retirement.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we should reduce the tax rate down to 0%.  Just imagine how much more tax revenue we can generate from the stimulus this would give the economy!

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/13/2017 at 10:13 PM, urbanhack said:

If you go nuts and completely overdo it, yes.  That was a good case in point that drastic changes don't tend to go over well.  When this is all over I expect some fairly mild tax rate changes with, hopefully,some substantial systematic changes to reduce complexity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/14/2017 at 11:35 AM, Sheriff Bart said:

Yesterday they said when their grand plan is released on September 25th,  the rich wouldn't be getting a tax cut. 

:lmao:

 

:lmao:

 

:lmao:

I'm shocked, just shocked, they didn't release anything today as promised.  Now Wednesday is the day. It's almost like these white guys don't know what they are doing and are just making things up as they go. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

We think we're going to bring the individual rate to 10 percent or 12 percent, much lower than it is now," he told reporters. "This is a plan for the middle class and for companies so they can bring back jobs." Actually, the lowest income-tax bracket in 2017 applies a 10 percent rate to taxable income of $9,325 or less. After that, a 15 percent rate applies to income up to $37,950.

Quote

The framework is also expected to eliminate the estate tax, three people familiar with the discussions said. That tax applies to estates worth at least $5.49 million per tax filer. Many Republicans want to end it.

Once again clueless and lied. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Tax cuts appear heavily weighted toward corporations and wealthy individuals with perhaps some middle-class tax relief. The corporate tax rate is expected to be cut to 20% from 35% with the top individual income tax rate dropping to 35% from 39.6% with a 25% rate for some “pass-through” business owners. This would cut taxes substantially for the top 1% of earners. The Trump plan also calls for doubling the standard deduction that benefits many middle-class Americans, while ending the state and local tax deduction that tends to help out households in high-income and high-tax states like California, New York, and New Jersey.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What are the chances this thing gets passed?  Doesn't it have to be revenue neutral in order to pass with only 51 votes?  Where's the additional revenue going to come from?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

What are the chances this thing gets passed?  Doesn't it have to be revenue neutral in order to pass with only 51 votes?  Where's the additional revenue going to come from?

I was thinking the same thing but my guess is that they pull numbers out of their ### like the 3%+ annual GDP growth. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Sheriff Bart said:

 

Hard to know what's going to happen until we see the plan unveiled, but there are reports the top rate will be higher than 35%, and the lowest rate is going to rise from 10% to 12%, but would nearly double standard deductions and increase child tax credit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Z Machine said:

What are the chances this thing gets passed?  Doesn't it have to be revenue neutral in order to pass with only 51 votes?  Where's the additional revenue going to come from?

Only revenue neutral after 10 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Z Machine said:

What are the chances this thing gets passed?  Doesn't it have to be revenue neutral in order to pass with only 51 votes?  Where's the additional revenue going to come from?

The corporate cuts shouldn't be too hard to balance by removing loopholes.  The effective tax rate on large corporations I think is lower than that.

Whether or not they can actually get those loopholes cut is another matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sheriff Bart said:

Looks like I'm neither poor enough or rich enough for tax reform to help me at all. 

#WINNING

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sheriff Bart said:

Looks like I'm neither poor enough or rich enough for tax reform to help me at all. 

You're just not working or middle class enough.  Step up your game!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.axios.com/republicans-agree-to-raise-bottom-tax-rate-double-standard-deduction-2489774626.html

 But as recently as yesterday top Republicans on Capitol Hill were nervous as they got word that Trump wasn't entirely thrilled with the product that had been hashed out in immense secrecy for weeks (with two members of his administration, Gary Cohn and Steven Mnuchin, working with GOP leaders.)

I'm sure the guys from Goldman have the best interest of the middle and working classes in mind on this one.

 

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, urbanhack said:

I'm sure the guys from Goldman have the best interest of the middle and working classes in mind on this one.

The more crumbs there are the better chance one or two might slip out and fall to the masses...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Sheriff Bart said:

I was thinking the same thing but my guess is that they pull numbers out of their ### like the 3%+ annual GDP growth. 

Trump's been telling lawmakers his plan could lead to more than 6% growth a year. Only realistic chance we have to even gain half that amount is to open the borders. 

I fear he's creating a time bomb that won't be felt for awhile but it's going to hurt bigly. 

Edited by Hilts
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

TOM BRENNER / THE NEW YORK TIMES

By ALAN RAPPEPORT

SEPTEMBER 27, 2017

WASHINGTON — The Trump administration on Wednesday proposed the most sweeping changes to the federal tax code in decades, outlining a framework that would cut individual and corporate taxes, eliminate widely used exemptions and deductions and tilt the United States closer to the type of tax system embraced by other industrialized nations.

But the framework, a copy of which was obtained by The New York Times ahead of its release, leaves many of the toughest decisions to Congress, including how to pay for a plan that could add trillions of dollars to the federal deficit, how progressive it should be and which prized deductions to jettison.

President Trump plans to unveil the tax plan in a speech Wednesday in Indiana, where he will position it as a win for the middle-class and a tool to stimulate economic growth. Republicans are racing to pass a tax bill by the end of the year as they look to secure their first major legislative achievement since taking power this year.

After months of secret talks, the proposal produced by the so-called Big Six working group provides as many questions as it does answers. Without those details, it is difficult to say whether middle-income families will see the most benefit from the tax overhaul or if it will favor the richest Americans.

On the individual side, the plan would collapse the tax brackets from seven to three, with tax rates of 12 percent, 25 percent and 35 percent, administration officials said. The current top rate is 39.6 percent and the lowest rate is 10 percent.

The framework also gives Congress the option of creating a higher, fourth, rate above 35 percent to ensure that the rich are paying their fair share. But it does not specify what income levels would be associated with the higher rate, what that new rate might be or explicitly direct Congress to implement a fourth bracket.

The plan aims to simplify and cut taxes for the middle class by doubling the standard deduction to $12,000 for individuals and to $24,000 for married couples. That would allow people to avoid a complicated process of itemizing their taxes to claim various credits and deductions. It would also increase the child tax credit from $1,000 to an unspecified amount and create a new $500 tax credit for dependents, such as the elderly, who are not children.

Provisions such as the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, a tax on inherited wealth which Mr. Trump has derided over the years, would be gone under the Republican proposal. Most itemized deductions, including those widely used for state and local tax expenses, would also be eliminated. However, the plan would preserve the deductions for mortgage interest expenses and charitable giving and keep incentives for education and retirement savings plans.

The changes to taxation for companies would be equally dramatic. The proposal calls for reducing the corporate tax rate to 20 percent from 35 percent, a shift that is intended to make American companies more competitive with their counterparts around the world.

A new tax rate would be created for so-called pass-throughbusinesses. These businesses, partnerships and sole proprietorships whose profits “pass through” to their owners, would be taxed at a rate of 25 percent, not the individual rate of their owners, like under the current law. About 95 percent of businesses in the United States are structured as pass-throughs and they generate a majority of the government’s corporate tax revenue.

As with the individual side, some of the thornier business tax issues remain unaddressed. It will be left to Congress to create safeguards that prevent wealthy individuals from incorporating as pass-through businesses, which would tax their income at a lower rate. Another administration official insisted that measures would be put in place so that there are not “games played” in this regard.

Another big change for companies would be a limitation of the deductibility for corporate interest expenses in exchange for the opportunity to immediately expense business investments. The ability to write these expenses off immediately would last only five years, and the limitations for deducting interest have yet to be determined. This is expected to set off a fight among business groups, many seeking either full deductibility or permanent immediate expensing.

The plan also calls on the tax committees to eliminate most of the tax credits that businesses currently use. Among those that would remain are the prized tax credit for research and development and the low-income-housing credit, which many Democrats support.

Perhaps the most major yet murky shift on the business side is the move from a worldwide tax system to a territorial tax system. In theory this means that companies would not be taxed on their overseas earnings, but to prevent erosion of the tax base, Republicans plan to impose some form of tax on foreign profits at a rate that has yet to be determined.

The transition to the new system would also include a one-time repatriation tax to encourage companies to bring offshore profits back to the United States. There would be different repatriation rates for different types of assets, but as with many parts of the proposal, the rates would be up to Congress to decide.

Members of the Senate Budget Committee have agreed on a budget resolution that would allow for a $1.5 trillion tax cut over 10 years. Studies of similar plans produced by Mr. Trump and House Republicans have been projected to cost $3 trillion to $7 trillion over a decade.

The Republicans pitching the plan say economic growth will compensate for compensate for lost revenue. During the campaign, Mr. Trump said overhauling the tax code would raise economic growth to 4 percent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My understanding was that tax reform, or even significant tax cuts, were not achievable without the spending cuts that a repeal of Obamacare was supposed to bring about. Has this fact changed? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, timschochet said:

My understanding was that tax reform, or even significant tax cuts, were not achievable without the spending cuts that a repeal of Obamacare was supposed to bring about. Has this fact changed? 

Once they pass a budget they can either do tax reform or health care via reconcillation (basically they get one bill a year), but that bill via reconciliation must be revenue neutral.  The only way they get that with tax reform is with some funky assumptions (20-30 time horizon, 4-6% growth, dynamic scoring, etc.)  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Sammy3469 said:

The only way they get that with tax reform is with some funky assumptions (20-30 time horizon, 4-6% growth, dynamic scoring, etc.)  

Trump has been making claims of 4-6% growth under his watch. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I said in here (or the other thread) a few months ago, it is going to be tough to get buy-in from Republicans in high tax states like NY or CA on repealing the state and local tax deduction, and it would not surprise me if a lot of middle to upper middle class individuals end up paying more.

It is a bit of mixed bag for businesses. Immediate expensing of capital investments is favorable, but the limitation on interest deductibility would hurt, particularly in the financial sector.  Energy sector may not like it either, as it sounds like those credits are still on the table.  I expect multinationals will hate the proposal for taxing foreign profits.

Edited by Don Quixote

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/9/27/16363954/trump-ryan-tax-plan-framework-big-six

 

What the Republican tax framework says

The basics of the new tax reform framework (which draws on Trump’s campaign plans in addition to the Better Way proposal) are:

The seven current individual income tax brackets will be consolidated to three: 12, 25, and 35 percent. The framework also specifies that Congress can add a fourth bracket above 35 percent, for the purpose of ensuring the new tax code is “at least as progressive as the current system and doesn’t shift the burden from higher-income to lower-income households.”

The standard deduction will be raised to $24,000 for couples and $12,000 for individuals, a near doubling from current levels.

The child tax credit, currently $1,000, will grow to an unspecified higher level. It will also be expanded to more high-income households; it currently phases out at $75,000 in income for single parents and $110,000 for married couples.

(Sens. Marco Rubio (R-FL) and Mike Lee (R-UT) have spent months working with Ivanka Trump, and persuaded her to abandon her plan to add a tax deduction for child care in favor of an increased child tax credit. It appears that the Big Six have adopted this approach as well.)

The personal exemption (currently offering households $4,050 per person in deductions) is eliminated, replaced by the higher child credit and standard deduction.

Mortgage interest and charitable deductions would remain but almost all other tax deductions would go, including the deduction for state and local taxes.

The corporate income tax rate will be lowered from 35 percent to 20 percent.

The corporate tax will be “territorial”: Foreign income by US companies will be tax-free, and all untaxed income currently held oversees will be immediately taxed at a fixed rate. This one-time tax will have different rates for money held in cash (or bonds, stock, etc.) and for money invested abroad in harder-to-sell assets like factories.

Instead of having companies “depreciate” investments by deducting them over several years, companies could immediate expense all their investments. This benefit would last at least five years but might go away after that.

Companies would face a limit on how much debt they can deduct from their taxable income, a significant change for highly leveraged companies like banks; Mnuchin had signaled skepticism about this provision, which makes its inclusion a little surprising. Interest deductibility wouldn’t go away completely however.

“Pass-through” companies, which are overwhelmingly owned by rich individuals like Donald Trump, would pay a lower 25 percent rate rather than the top individual rate (which they pay currently).

Two big existing credits for corporations — the Research & Development tax credit and the Low Income Housing Credit — won’t be repealed.

The Alternative Minimum Tax, which increases taxes for certain affluent or upper-middle-class households, is repealed.

The estate and gift tax, the most progressive component of the federal tax code, only paid by extremely rich estates, is abolished.

What we still don’t know

The framework still leaves a huge amount unspecified. For one thing, two of the most contentious parts of the package — the lower top individual income tax rate and lower corporate rate — are not given a specific number. But the problem is deeper than that. The framework also fails to say:

Where the individual bracket thresholds are: e.g., when the 12 percent bracket stops and 25 percent begins.

If there will be a fourth tax rate for rich people with $410,000 or more in taxable income (the current group paying a 39.6 percent marginal rate), and if so, what it will be.

What the child tax credit will be increased to, or whether it will be expanded to more low-income families who are currently ineligible.

Which corporate tax breaks will be closed, beyond taxing more interest on corporate debt.

How the plan will avoid having companies relocate operations to generate foreign income, which will now be exempt from US taxes; White House officials say provisions will be developed to address this problem, but offered zero specifics.

How much interest deductibility will be limited

How long full expensing of investments will be allowed

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bernie Sanders‏Verified account @SenSanders

 

It is particularly obscene for Trump to repeal the estate tax which would provide a $269 billion tax break to the top 0.2%.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, timschochet said:

My understanding was that tax reform, or even significant tax cuts, were not achievable without the spending cuts that a repeal of Obamacare was supposed to bring about. Has this fact changed? 

I think (not 100% certain) they could make it last  just 10 years or get 60 Senate votes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

Nice how there are still so many specifics left out. 

"It's being left up to Congress." 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Hilts said:

"It's being left up to Congress." 

His proposals are like the nightmares I would have in school about not having papers finished. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.