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"Holy crap Dad, English class was crazy" (1 Viewer)

Nigel

Footballguy
I picked my 8th grade son up from school today, and the thread title is what he said to me as soon as he got in the car. Then he told me what went down.

In the middle of class the teacher abruptly paused and asked my son's buddy Ethan to meet him outside in the hall. Ethan and Mr. Smith disappeared for a couple of minutes, then returned. Mr. Smith then told the class that he had to step out for a minute, would be right back. After he left the boys asked Ethan what happened, and he told them Mr. Smith had heard him talking crap about some other boys and gave him 4 hours detention. The other boys were shocked, it wasn't like Ethan to get in trouble and it was out of character for Mr. Smith to come down so hard. Minutes passed and the conversation among the boys (9 of them) escalated, kids busting Ethan's chops and also railing on Mr. Smith..."What a ####-move!"  "That's bull####!" "He must be on the rag"...they made fun of his clothes, his facial hair...it went on an on. The room was buzzing with banter until finally Mr. Smith opened the door quickly and walked in. The room went silent in an awkward way as he entered, and Mr. Smith said "Sorry I took so long, what were you guys talking about?". They glanced around at each other but nobody answered him. As they sat there he walked over to his computer, pressed a button, and the 8 minute conversation he missed started replaying on the speakers. :shock:

Charlie said every kid's face turned ghost-white, a couple buried their faces in their hands and shook their heads. The recoding played for a couple of minutes, a few mild curse words were heard but it hadn't yet gotten into some of the stuff they were really dreading him hearing. At that point Ethan raised his hand and asked Mr. Smith to stop the tape, "I say some pretty bad stuff coming up soon and I really don't want you to hear it." Mr. Smith stopped the recording and said he may or may not listen to it later. And at that point let everyone know what this was all about...

He had taken Ethan into the hall and told him that he was going to leave class for 10 minutes, and he wanted Ethan to go back in the room and "try to convince all of the boys to leave the classroom". So Ethan when Ethan returned to class, the boys asked him what was going on and he quickly came up with the phony story about detention. Then he made up something else about leaving something in the library and wanting the other kids to come with him to get it, but the kids were like "wtf that's stupid" so he quickly gave up. Then the Mr. Smith-bashing started, and Ethan, who was sort of in on it but had no idea about the recording, was one of the heaviest bashers!

The whole point was that they are reading Lord of the Flies and Mr. Smith wanted to try to replicate the boys being on an island with no adults, and how that might effect how they speak and act.

Mission accomplished Mr. Smith!! :lmao:

 
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I can imagine some stomachs dropped when the recording started! It would be nice if there was some video recording of their faces! 

 
What law?
It's a federal law to legally record a conversation at least person must consent.  Since the teacher wasn't part of the conversation, and I'm assuming none of the boys or their parents consented, it's against the law 

18 U.S.C. 2511(2)(d)

 
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On the first day of School Newspaper class my sophomore year, another teacher came into the classroom and started arguing with the Newspaper teacher. The argument escalated and pretty soon they were calling each other names and threatening to kill each other. Then, the other teacher grabbed a pair of scissors and cut off the Newspaper teacher's tie, then stormed out of the room.

The entire class was in shock. After a few moments, the Newspaper teacher announced, "Okay, now we're going to have a pop quiz". And he passed around a quiz sheet.

The questions on the quiz sheet were:

1. Who just came into the room?

2. What did the person look like?

3. What clothes was the person wearing?

etc.

Half the class failed the quiz. I think I managed a B. But I learned a lesson that I've never forgotten.

 
It's a federal law to legally record a conversation at least person must consent.  Since the teacher wasn't part of the conversation, and I'm assuming none of the boys or their parents consented, it's against the law 

18 U.S.C. 2511(2)(d)
My guess would be that the school would have a some kind of general consent for all students. Yearbook pictures, school events, maybe school security cameras? Plus, it's "public property"? 

 
It's a federal law to legally record a conversation at least person must consent.  Since the teacher wasn't part of the conversation, and I'm assuming none of the boys or their parents consented, it's against the law 
Not sure that a public conversation in a school setting is going to be illegal to record.

 
Yes, the teacher taught them a valuable lesson. 

I'm not sure it's going to be worth it later on when he listens to that recording and hears all the crap they were saying about him. 

 
On the first day of School Newspaper class my sophomore year, another teacher came into the classroom and started arguing with the Newspaper teacher. The argument escalated and pretty soon they were calling each other names and threatening to kill each other. Then, the other teacher grabbed a pair of scissors and cut off the Newspaper teacher's tie, then stormed out of the room.

The entire class was in shock. After a few moments, the Newspaper teacher announced, "Okay, now we're going to have a pop quiz". And he passed around a quiz sheet.

The questions on the quiz sheet were:

1. Who just came into the room?

2. What did the person look like?

3. What clothes was the person wearing?

etc.

Half the class failed the quiz. I think I managed a B. But I learned a lesson that I've never forgotten.
WTF is newspaper class?

 
No teacher needs to try and replicate "Lord of the Flies".  It happens daily in the hallways, streets, parties, internet, etc.  

Most kids are animals without conscious.  

 
On the first day of School Newspaper class my sophomore year, another teacher came into the classroom and started arguing with the Newspaper teacher. The argument escalated and pretty soon they were calling each other names and threatening to kill each other. Then, the other teacher grabbed a pair of scissors and cut off the Newspaper teacher's tie, then stormed out of the room.

The entire class was in shock. After a few moments, the Newspaper teacher announced, "Okay, now we're going to have a pop quiz". And he passed around a quiz sheet.

The questions on the quiz sheet were:

1. Who just came into the room?

2. What did the person look like?

3. What clothes was the person wearing?

etc.

Half the class failed the quiz. I think I managed a B. But I learned a lesson that I've never forgotten.
Now this is a clever and dramatic way to make a point.  Ethan's teacher's approach?  Ah, no.  

 
Without any backing data of any sort, I intuitively like the idea of putting students in off-the-wall scenarios. Seems like giving kids practice at thinking during unexpected situations would be a net plus (once again with no data, nor relevant experience guiding my thoughts).

Nigel's scenario doesn't sound all that well thought out to me, and just seems like it would invoke more incredulousness than thought. Scooter's sounds really beneficial to me, although I can see the danger in the rare outcome in which a student may try to physically intervene.

 
One of the kids should record some of the teachers in the teacher's lounge after someone secretly puts TP all over the lounge and leaves a note saying the kids rule the joint.  Then start playing it back for them.  Replicate an island with only adults and no kids around.  The kid may or may not delete the recording afterward.

 
Stupid, stupid exercise.  
That's some top-notch teaching. He will probably get reprimanded if not fired when it leaks unless 1) it is possible those kids did have signed consent forms and 2) teacher might have already vetted the lesson with his superiors.

As for why it was good: ask yourself what, if anything, stuck with you from your 8th grade English class. Probably little. This kid will never forget the class and probably retell it dozens of times. In 20-minutes or so, he "got" Lord of the Flies.

 
Is it legal to record a minor without consent? 
Oh #### dude.  Really?  Blame the teacher for the kids being ### holes? No wonder kids are such a mess.  What if a kid walks past a security camera?  

 
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Oh #### dude.  Really?  Blame the teacher for the kids being ### holes? No wonder kids are such a mess.  What if a kid walks past a security camera?  
Why the hostility? I'm not alone in this thought. And it's a reasonable question. 

I wonder if what the kids said will effect their grade? Human nature is to be hurt by what those kids said. Odds are the teacher now feels differently about them. The only way he obtained that information was by recording them without their knowledge. If they had known, there is no way they would have said what they said. 

In regards to your last question. Kids know the security cameras are up. If they're dumb enough to do something in front of the camera, that's on them.  What if a teacher installed a camera in the bathroom or locker room? Does that cross the line? Why?

 
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Huh -- my middle school English teacher did the same thing when we were reading Lord of the Flies.  Things went a little differently with us because we ended up murdering the fat kid in our class and none of us has ever really been the same since, but it definitely helped us relate to the story.

 
Huh -- my middle school English teacher did the same thing when we were reading Lord of the Flies.  Things went a little differently with us because we ended up murdering the fat kid in our class and none of us has ever really been the same since, but it definitely helped us relate to the story.
But was it recorded????

 
Why the hostility? I'm not alone in this thought. And it's a reasonable question. 

I wonder if what the kids said will effect their grade? Human nature is to be hurt by what those kids said. Odds are the teacher now feels differently about them. The only way he obtained that information was by recording them without their knowledge. If they had known, there is no way they would have said what they said. 

In regards to your last question. Kids know the security cameras are up. If they're dumb enough to do something in front of the camera, that's on them.  What if a teacher installed a camera in the bathroom or locker room? Does that cross the line? Why?
Should the teacher not be allowed to stand outside the doorway and listen to the kids either?  They said what they said.  They weren't tricked.  They just dropped the facade of civility towards this adult.  They chose to do it.  Sucks when you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar but they made their bed.  As far as the teacher listening.  Of course he is going to listen.  There will most likely be consequences too.  But again, those kids made their bed.  

As for bathrooms, come on guy.  That's totally different.  

 
On the first day of School Newspaper class my sophomore year, another teacher came into the classroom and started arguing with the Newspaper teacher. The argument escalated and pretty soon they were calling each other names and threatening to kill each other. Then, the other teacher grabbed a pair of scissors and cut off the Newspaper teacher's tie, then stormed out of the room.

The entire class was in shock. After a few moments, the Newspaper teacher announced, "Okay, now we're going to have a pop quiz". And he passed around a quiz sheet.

The questions on the quiz sheet were:

1. Who just came into the room?

2. What did the person look like?

3. What clothes was the person wearing?

etc.

Half the class failed the quiz. I think I managed a B. But I learned a lesson that I've never forgotten.
When I was i think a freshman we had an assembly.   I don't remember if it was a detective or what.  Anyway before the assembly, me and my friend were pulled aside and were told when the speaker gave a keyword, my buddy was to stand up and say something about the speaker. I was to stand up and defend him.   We would then get in an argument and he would chase me out of the auditorium.

Once out - we snuck in and sat in the back.

The speaker than started asking question similar to yours.    What was the argument about?  what were they wearing? etc etc.

Definitely stuck with me

 
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Should the teacher not be allowed to stand outside the doorway and listen to the kids either?  They said what they said.  They weren't tricked.  They just dropped the facade of civility towards this adult.  They chose to do it.  Sucks when you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar but they made their bed.  As far as the teacher listening.  Of course he is going to listen.  There will most likely be consequences too.  But again, those kids made their bed.  

As for bathrooms, come on guy.  That's totally different.  
If he does this then he changed it from a lesson to being a ####.

Personally I think the lesson is fairly solid.  With the proliferation of cell phones the potential for every stupid thing you do or say to get recorded is high.  I think that is a very valuable lesson for kids.

 
I picked my 8th grade son up from school today, and the thread title is what he said to me as soon as he got in the car. Then he told me what went down.

In the middle of class the teacher abruptly paused and asked my son's buddy Ethan to meet him outside in the hall. Ethan and Mr. Smith disappeared for a couple of minutes, then returned. Mr. Smith then told the class that he had to step out for a minute, would be right back. After he left the boys asked Ethan what happened, and he told them Mr. Smith had heard him talking crap about some other boys and gave him 4 hours detention. The other boys were shocked, it wasn't like Ethan to get in trouble and it was out of character for Mr. Smith to come down so hard. Minutes passed and the conversation among the boys (9 of them) escalated, kids busting Ethan's chops and also railing on Mr. Smith..."What a ####-move!"  "That's bull####!" "He must be on the rag"...they made fun of his clothes, his facial hair...it went on an on. The room was buzzing with banter until finally Mr. Smith opened the door quickly and walked in. The room went silent in an awkward way as he entered, and Mr. Smith said "Sorry I took so long, what were you guys talking about?". They glanced around at each other but nobody answered him. As they sat there he walked over to his computer, pressed a button, and the 8 minute conversation he missed started replaying on the speakers. :shock:

Charlie said every kid's face turned ghost-white, a couple buried their faces in their hands and shook their heads. The recoding played for a couple of minutes, a few mild curse words were heard but it hadn't yet gotten into some of the stuff they were really dreading him hearing. At that point Ethan raised his hand and asked Mr. Smith to stop the tape, "I say some pretty bad stuff coming up soon and I really don't want you to hear it." Mr. Smith stopped the recording and said he may or may not listen to it later. And at that point let everyone know what this was all about...

He had taken Ethan into the hall and told him that he was going to leave class for 10 minutes, and he wanted Ethan to go back in the room and "try to convince all of the boys to leave the classroom". So Ethan when Ethan returned to class, the boys asked him what was going on and he quickly came up with the phony story about detention. Then he made up something else about leaving something in the library and wanting the other kids to come with him to get it, but the kids were like "wtf that's stupid" so he quickly gave up. Then the Mr. Smith-bashing started, and Ethan, who was sort of in on it but had no idea about the recording, was one of the heaviest bashers!

The whole point was that they are reading Lord of the Flies and Mr. Smith wanted to try to replicate the boys being on an island with no adults, and how that might effect how they speak and act.

Mission accomplished Mr. Smith!! :lmao:
little long bro

 
If he does this then he changed it from a lesson to being a ####.

Personally I think the lesson is fairly solid.  With the proliferation of cell phones the potential for every stupid thing you do or say to get recorded is high.  I think that is a very valuable lesson for kids.
I obviously don't know the guy.  However, I understand human nature.  He'd be wise to delete it before he or anyone else listened.  

 
On the first day of School Newspaper class my sophomore year, another teacher came into the classroom and started arguing with the Newspaper teacher. The argument escalated and pretty soon they were calling each other names and threatening to kill each other. Then, the other teacher grabbed a pair of scissors and cut off the Newspaper teacher's tie, then stormed out of the room.

The entire class was in shock. After a few moments, the Newspaper teacher announced, "Okay, now we're going to have a pop quiz". And he passed around a quiz sheet.

The questions on the quiz sheet were:

1. Who just came into the room?

2. What did the person look like?

3. What clothes was the person wearing?

etc.

Half the class failed the quiz. I think I managed a B. But I learned a lesson that I've never forgotten.
This is also commonly done in law school.  It's a famous experiment demonstrating how unreliable eyewitnesses are. 

 
Should the teacher not be allowed to stand outside the doorway and listen to the kids either?  They said what they said.  They weren't tricked.  They just dropped the facade of civility towards this adult.  They chose to do it.  Sucks when you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar but they made their bed.  As far as the teacher listening.  Of course he is going to listen.  There will most likely be consequences too.  But again, those kids made their bed.  

As for bathrooms, come on guy.  That's totally different.  
My point was the legality of recording someone without their consent. Technically, they were tricked. Had the teacher said he was leaving the room and that the conversations while he was gone were going to be recorded, the kids never would have said what they said. 

Because he tricked them, you agree there will be consequences. Which brings me back to the legality question. Why do two wrongs make a right. And why should the kids be the only ones to suffer? 

The bathroom is a good example. Especially when you referred to eavesdropping. Peeking through someones window is a different charge than recording someone. If there is any sexual element and children are involved, it can move to a child pornography charge. The difference is the use of a recording device. Should it be sent to some else, there would also be a distributing child porn charge. 

 
My point was the legality of recording someone without their consent. Technically, they were tricked. Had the teacher said he was leaving the room and that the conversations while he was gone were going to be recorded, the kids never would have said what they said. 

Because he tricked them, you agree there will be consequences. Which brings me back to the legality question. Why do two wrongs make a right. And why should the kids be the only ones to suffer? 

The bathroom is a good example. Especially when you referred to eavesdropping. Peeking through someones window is a different charge than recording someone. If there is any sexual element and children are involved, it can move to a child pornography charge. The difference is the use of a recording device. Should it be sent to some else, there would also be a distributing child porn charge. 
I get what you are saying.  On the other hand, at what point do we stop coddling kids and teach them some real lessons on personal accountability.  Should my kid get a free pass for acting like an ### if they didn't know it would get back to me?  

Good lesson for the kids here in my opinion.  Be mindful of what comes out of your mouth.  

It's a crazy world we live in when a teacher records a bunch of kids talking to illustrate the theme of a classic novel, and pretty soon you are mentioning distributing child porn.  

 
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Can teachers just leave their classes unsupervised for 10 minutes? What if a fight broke out? What if some one got hurt in some other manner? Seems risky on his part.

 

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