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Potentially the worst trade of all time (1 Viewer)

dhockster

dhockster

Footballguy
Or trades of all time. If you take the initial trade of draft picks the Cleveland Browns made with the Philadelphia Eagles last year and factor in all of the subsequent trades of the picks from the initial trade, here is what you end up with:

Cleveland got:

Corey Coleman WR

Shon Coleman RT

Cody Kessler QB

Derrick Kindred SS

Spencer Drango G

Ricardo Lewis WR

Jordan Payton WR

Jabril Peppers S

Houston's 1st round Pick in 2018

Philadelphia's 2nd round Pick in 2018

What Cleveland traded away:

Carson Wentz QB

Jehu Chesson WR

Jack Conklin RT

Andy Janovich FB

Darryl Worley CB

Zack Sanchez CB

Connor Cook QB

Deshaun Watson QB

Now the trade is not complete yet, and players for Cleveland may develop into good players, but as of right now, they have traded away a RT who made the pro bowl last year (Conklin) and traded away two franchise QB's (Wentz and Watson) while they have not adequately addressed their own franchise QB situation, and all of their other drafted players appear to be works in progress. It will be interesting to see how this evolves over time.

 
They will need to hit a homerun at QB with their #1 or #2 overall pick in 2018. They cannot pass on QB again. Kizer's a bum. Just traded for Njoku on this assumption. He's not doing bad for a guy with no QB. Clean house in the FO/coaching will also be needed.

 
Heard a stat on the radio here in Philly today that the Browns, since basically passing on taking Wentz, are 1-21.  Brutal.

 
Everybody outside of the Browns organization knew that trading back and stockpiling all these draft picks was not the answer. Sure, there are times that trading back is a good idea. But consistently stockpiling picks upon picks is not going to work in football. The active roster is only 53 guys. If you draft well over 20 rookies in 2 years, that's a hell of a lot of youth on a team without a very solid core foundation of veterans to balance the team. 

 
You ought to do a comp of the Redskins/Rams Griffin trade, or the Saints-Cowboys Walsh trade, or the Vikings-Cowboys Walker trade, or the Browns-falcs Julio Jones trade.

I think there are some other candidates.

 
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dhockster said:
Jabril Peppers S

Houston's 1st round Pick in 2018

Philadelphia's 2nd round Pick in 2018

Carson Wentz QB

Deshaun Watson QB
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Last year, many questioned whether or not Wentz would become what he appears to be now.  Before the draft, the knock on Watson was accuracy.  

I think its early to call Kizer a bum, and if he is, there are two chances next year to fix that.

On balance, I think its a bit much to call this potentially the worst trade of all time.  The Browns weren't the only organization to have questions about Wentz and Watson.

 
I find it also funny that Wentz and now Watson have beaten the browns in laughers since they were traded away

 
The Walker trade led directly to the Cowboys dynasty in the 90s - definitely the most lopsided trade: ESPN 30 for 30 about the trade.

On the surface, the trade looked like 5 players plus a #1 pick for Walker - but the genius of the trade was that the Cowboys could get picks if they cut the Vikings players, which is what they did.  The discussion about the picks starts at 5:50 of the video of you want to focus on that.  

 
Im an Eagles fan and I hated the trade when they made it but in my defense I never saw one game in Wentz in college so I blame all the sites thats said he wouldnt be great. I think in the Browns defense it would be hard to turn down all those picks for a guy who only played 2 season of Division 2 football. I just wont get why they didnt get Mitch Watson or Malhomme this year 

 
Nagle2998 said:
Im an Eagles fan and I hated the trade when they made it but in my defense I never saw one game in Wentz in college so I blame all the sites thats said he wouldnt be great. I think in the Browns defense it would be hard to turn down all those picks for a guy who only played 2 season of Division 2 football. I just wont get why they didnt get Mitch Watson or Malhomme this year 
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My bright side thought at the time was they knew they'd suck again and wanted Darnold or Rosen. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
You ought to do a comp of the Redskins/Rams Griffin trade
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this came to mind immediately reading the thread title. i think there was even an ESPN special on this, all the picks Rams got that should have set them up for years, and then all the picks they wasted on horrible draft choices that killed a franchise.

 
Just to be clear, I did say "potentially" the worst trade of all time. It is yet to be determined.

The RG3 trade looked like a great trade for Washington after one year. And then he fell apart. So it looked like a terrible trade for Washington because of all the picks they gave up. And then St. Louis squandered most of those picks. So it turned out to be a bad trade for both teams.

As of now, on one side of the ledger is the players taken with the picks Cleveland gave up. Those include a Right Tackle who made all-pro in his first year, A QB who is one of the top QB's for the first 6 games of his second season, and a rookie QB who is one of the top QB's in the first 6 games of his rookie season. On the other side you have the players that Cleveland has taken so far, none who have particularly distinguished themselves yet. You also have a first and second round pick next year which we don't know about yet.

So no, as of now, it is not the worst trade of all time. But it does have the potential to get there.

 
Just to be clear, I did say "potentially" the worst trade of all time. It is yet to be determined.

The RG3 trade looked like a great trade for Washington after one year. And then he fell apart. So it looked like a terrible trade for Washington because of all the picks they gave up. And then St. Louis squandered most of those picks. So it turned out to be a bad trade for both teams.

As of now, on one side of the ledger is the players taken with the picks Cleveland gave up. Those include a Right Tackle who made all-pro in his first year, A QB who is one of the top QB's for the first 6 games of his second season, and a rookie QB who is one of the top QB's in the first 6 games of his rookie season. On the other side you have the players that Cleveland has taken so far, none who have particularly distinguished themselves yet. You also have a first and second round pick next year which we don't know about yet.

So no, as of now, it is not the worst trade of all time. But it does have the potential to get there.

 
I agree the ultimate lopsided trade was when mike Lynn decided he wanted to be a GM remembered for building a dynasty. He did.  that said, a lopsided trade near and dear to my heart was when the packers gave up a 1, 2, & 3 in a draft, and a 1, & a 2 in the next draft for John Hadl, a formerly good Q.B. past his prime and on his last legs who played poorly in only a handful of games before retirement.  Basically the Packers gave 5 high draft choices for a bag of soiled laundry.

 
Latest Update:

Wentz throws 4 TD's in divisional win over Redskins.

Corey Coleman sent home for missing curfew.

 
Tommy Collins said:
Everybody outside of the Browns organization knew that trading back and stockpiling all these draft picks was not the answer. Sure, there are times that trading back is a good idea. But consistently stockpiling picks upon picks is not going to work in football. The active roster is only 53 guys. If you draft well over 20 rookies in 2 years, that's a hell of a lot of youth on a team without a very solid core foundation of veterans to balance the team. 
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It's funny you say this because most on these boards and most analysts thought it was a great trade for the Browns.  Every couple years everyone goes nuts and raves over how amazing the Browns' draft was and it always ends up junk. 

 
Technically didn't they get the Conklin and Watson picks in the first Wentz trade? it isn't fair to count both them and Wentz as losses if that is the case. 

 
My favorite Cleveland Browns stat (this is from a few weeks ago so its even worse now).  

In Cleveland's last 16 games, the Browns are 1-15.  In the previous 16 games before that the Browns are also 1-15.   The Browns have had the equivalent of back to back 1-15 seasons.  (Now that they continue to lose this pattern could go on forever).

 
Ugh...as a Browns fan I hated the trade then and even more now.  Not only did they pass on Wentz, but pick 93 came up and I thought Dak could be a decent prospect, but they took Kessler and also Joe Schobert (pick 99), R. Lewis(114) and Kindred (129) before Dak went at pick 135.  Seriously they could have Wentz and Dak.

 
SeniorVBDStudent said:
Last year, many questioned whether or not Wentz would become what he appears to be now.  Before the draft, the knock on Watson was accuracy.  

I think its early to call Kizer a bum, and if he is, there are two chances next year to fix that.

On balance, I think its a bit much to call this potentially the worst trade of all time.  The Browns weren't the only organization to have questions about Wentz and Watson.
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I tried to find an article but I’ve been of the belief for a few years that if you get benched in your rookie season after starting as a rookie QB, your chances for NFL success are practically zero. Not sure where I heard that unfortunately.

 
jtd13 said:
Technically didn't they get the Conklin and Watson picks in the first Wentz trade? it isn't fair to count both them and Wentz as losses if that is the case. 
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I see what you are saying. I look at it as one big picture, but technically you could look at as a series of bad trades. The bottom line is they had the opportunity to take quality players with high draft picks but kept trading them for lower picks that, up to this point have not panned out.

 
arctic_panzer_wolf said:
Ugh...as a Browns fan I hated the trade then and even more now.  Not only did they pass on Wentz, but pick 93 came up and I thought Dak could be a decent prospect, but they took Kessler and also Joe Schobert (pick 99), R. Lewis(114) and Kindred (129) before Dak went at pick 135.  Seriously they could have Wentz and Dak.
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Fair enough, but I can't really kill them for not taking Dak.  Every team passed on him multiple times.  He went where he was graded.  Passing on Wentz was clearly idiotic.

 
dhockster said:
I see what you are saying. I look at it as one big picture, but technically you could look at as a series of bad trades. The bottom line is they had the opportunity to take quality players with high draft picks but kept trading them for lower picks that, up to this point have not panned out.
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I agree with your general point that Cleveland would be better off with either Wentz or Conklin and Watson, just saying it's not one big trade. They had the pick to take Wentz, and they basically traded it for the picks to get Conklin and Watson. Instead of taking them, they basically traded them for more players. They could have had Wentz, OR Conklin and Watson, OR what they have now. It seems dishonest to say they gave up all 3 of those players for the players and picks they have now.

Either way, dumb move Cleveland.

 
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unckeyherb said:
Fair enough, but I can't really kill them for not taking Dak.  Every team passed on him multiple times.  He went where he was graded.  Passing on Wentz was clearly idiotic.
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I think the Browns might of been the only team that had Kessler higher than Dak though.  People need fired over that.  Passing on Watson was stupid too since they want to put Peppers in the parking lot on D

 
CaptainJT said:
My favorite Cleveland Browns stat (this is from a few weeks ago so its even worse now).  

In Cleveland's last 16 games, the Browns are 1-15.  In the previous 16 games before that the Browns are also 1-15.   The Browns have had the equivalent of back to back 1-15 seasons.  (Now that they continue to lose this pattern could go on forever).
Click to expand...
My brother-in-law die hard Browns fan was telling me in August the Browns were going to sweep the Steelers, go 8-8 and finish ahead of the Steelers in the division.  I know he whiffed on sweeping the Steelers but there is still a chance the Browns could go 7-1 and Steelers 2-7 in the second half.  :oldunsure:

 
And the cherry on top for Eagles fans:

The Vikings traded us our 2017 1st round pick back......for Sam Bradford.

:thanks:

 
jtd13 said:
I agree with your general point that Cleveland would be better off with either Wentz or Conklin and Watson, just saying it's not one big trade. They had the pick to take Wentz, and they basically traded it for the picks to get Conklin and Watson. Instead of taking them, they basically traded them for more players. They could have had Wentz, OR Conklin and Watson, OR what they have now. It seems dishonest to say they gave up all 3 of those players for the players and picks they have now.

Either way, dumb move Cleveland.
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True. Totally agree with this. 

Cleveland took door number 3. And got the Big Donkey instead of the luxury car.

 
Godsbrother said:
My brother-in-law die hard Browns fan was telling me in August the Browns were going to sweep the Steelers, go 8-8 and finish ahead of the Steelers in the division.  I know he whiffed on sweeping the Steelers but there is still a chance the Browns could go 7-1 and Steelers 2-7 in the second half.  :oldunsure:
Click to expand...
Seems realistic for Cleveland to go 8-1 from here...

 
lod001 said:
They will need to hit a homerun at QB with their #1 or #2 overall pick in 2018. They cannot pass on QB again. Kizer's a bum. Just traded for Njoku on this assumption. He's not doing bad for a guy with no QB. Clean house in the FO/coaching will also be needed.
Click to expand...
You know what? Every analyst out there loved these trades when the Browns made them. And so did everyone else, I call bs on everyone saying otherwise.

 
Nagle2998 said:
Im an Eagles fan and I hated the trade when they made it but in my defense I never saw one game in Wentz in college so I blame all the sites thats said he wouldnt be great. I think in the Browns defense it would be hard to turn down all those picks for a guy who only played 2 season of Division 2 football. I just wont get why they didnt get Mitch Watson or Malhomme this year 
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gotta hand it to Phili for recognizing C. Wentz from a lessor football program.

 
dhockster said:
I see what you are saying. I look at it as one big picture, but technically you could look at as a series of bad trades. The bottom line is they had the opportunity to take quality players with high draft picks but kept trading them for lower picks that, up to this point have not panned out.
Click to expand...
But the worst part isn't the trades. There were talented players available at those lower picks. Cleveland just didn't have the correct talent evaluations.

You can make the argument that the Jaguars have taken the same route as the Browns the last year - build the team up everywhere but QB. Kizer/Hogan is roughly as cringe-worthy as Bortles/Henne and a  much smaller price tag. Yes, the Jags brought in some veteran free agents who cost some $$$. But the Jags have hit on their picks the last 2 drafts.

The last 2 drafts, teh Jags and Browns were drafting at relatively the same positions in the order.

2016 - CLE - Corey Coleman, Emmanuel Ogbah, Carl Nassib, Shon Coleman, Cody kessler, Joe Schobert, Ricardo Louis -vs- JAX - Jalen Ramsey, Myles Jack(thanks Dallas), Yannick Ngakoue, Sheldon Day

Ogbah and Nassib combined have 11 career sacks. Ngakoue has 14.5.

2017 - CLE - Myles Garrett, Jabrill Peppers, David Njoku, DeShone Kizer, Larry Ogunjobi, David Wilson -vs- JAX - Leonard Fournette, Cam Robinson, Dawaune Smoot, Dede Westbrook

Cleveland passed on selecting  Cam Robinson three times. Sure it's hindsight and you can argue that you have no way to expect Joe Thomas to go down after his Iron Man streak. But the Browns did spend a 5th on T Roderick Johnson. Dede Westbrook looked great in the preseason and might turn some heads once he comes back from IR in Week 9.

 
JaxBill said:
But the worst part isn't the trades. There were talented players available at those lower picks. Cleveland just didn't have the correct talent evaluations.

<snip>
Click to expand...
Agreed.  Player eval is the real concern... having more picks isn't a bad thing unless your eval is ####e.   

 
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